Silent Protagonist Feature.

[kratoscar2008]

I dont know about you all but the silent protagonist is the thing that i most love of Atlus Philosophy in part because i totally buy the concept of it (basically that the player shape their personalities on it.).

In other forums people really dislikes the silent protagonist since they see it as a way for developers being lazy to actually invest time in story telling, etc. I want to know what people think of the silent protagonist in this forum.

On that note my favorites games are persona and Growlanser both titles that are from Atlus and have silent protagonists.

[Olethros]

Generally speaking, I like them. It's such a big part of some of Atlus's signature series that it would just be weird if it were to change.

[Leilee]

I don't mind silent or talking protagonists.
If your main protagonist is a speaker, he/she needs to be likable. Personally hate those whiny emo kid types who bemoan the world for no reason nearly.

Silent protagonists do work better in games where you're expected to think of yourself as the character, and given lots of choices, or lots of ways to interact with an environment. For example of the latter, the main character of Ico interacts heavily with his environment, and your bond with the female lead is also built on your interactions of protecting her and working through the castle. Link is another example in you get to explore a huge world with people, monsters, and dungeons.

[bahamut920]

Silent protagonists work best if the player is given chances to inject his personality into the game. In other words, games which put the "role-playing" in RPGs. Atlus typically does it well, offering lots of points in the dialogue in which the player has to make a choice, thus making the silent protagonist an extension of the player, as opposed to just an oddly quiet addition to the cast. Bioware also has a history of making the silent protagonist work well, and they also offer the player a lot of dialogue choices.

In essence, the "silent" protagonist can either be a vessel for the player or a sign of lazy developers, depending on how well the character is implemented into the game. Essentially, the best way to implement a silent protagonist is to remove the word "silent" from the equation, and allow the protagonist to speak for the player.

That said, none of my favorite characters are silent protagonists, even if what is arguably my favorite game (Chrono Trigger) features one as the main character.

[Manly Biceps]

I hate them in games where other characters speak. I figure if a designer wanted the player to imagine the main character to speak in their own voice, the designer should probably just give the player a wealth of dialogue options. It takes two to have a conversation, and seeing how people react to what the character has to say is a big part of video game storytelling, in my opinion.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Leilee

I don't mind silent or talking protagonists.
If your main protagonist is a speaker, he/she needs to be likable. Personally hate those whiny emo kid types who bemoan the world for no reason nearly.

Silent protagonists do work better in games where you're expected to think of yourself as the character, and given lots of choices, or lots of ways to interact with an environment. For example of the latter, the main character of Ico interacts heavily with his environment, and your bond with the female lead is also built on your interactions of protecting her and working through the castle. Link is another example in you get to explore a huge world with people, monsters, and dungeons.

Imagine the personality of minato of Persona 3 if he were to speak saying "Wathever" all the time it would be awful.

I havent played Ico but i have played Shadow of the Colossus and i really liked the character even when he doesnt speak his actions really tell all what you want to know about him. And the ending is just my favorite of all the games i have played (Persona 3 second).

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by Leilee

For example of the latter, the main character of Ico interacts heavily with his environment, and your bond with the female lead is also built on your interactions of protecting her and working through the castle. Link is another example in you get to explore a huge world with people, monsters, and dungeons.

I like the examples you listed. They are not ones I would have outright thought of, but you are very right. In a game where the main character is a single "lone hero" who is on a long, HUGE adventure where most of his gaming life he is roaming alone fighting off the hoards and at times hitting up towns and civilizations to restock and inquire about things. In that kind of setting, a silent protagonist really works for me because for a character, it is sort of like Tom Hanks in Castaway.. when you are alone for oodles of time.. you don't really talk. (though on the other side of the coin, it'd be kool to have a silent protagonist that is amazingly wordy when he DOES run into people.. desperate for conversation.. lol)

More to your point though, I do think the neutrality of a silent protagonist that is the strong silent type, barely speaks and when they do, in only a few words, is ok. It feels very adequate, but little more. Sort of a Plateau in the MC progression in RPG's after years of necessity.

I mean for years in gaming a silent protag is all we COULD get because of the limitations in hardware and software design. That started to slip away around the time we started seeing games on CD when storage wasn't as much of a limitation and multi-volume rpgs (that is, 2-4 disc games) and since then it is no longer a necessity.

So now when I see it, it tells me either

A: the developer could not fund or design the game with a fully voiced main character
or
B: stylistically it felt better to leave them as a silent protag.

Either way it opens the door for a certain amount of empathy the player can have or project into the character to bring themselves into the story. This in itself is a challenge as not everyone is capable or willing to do such a thing (I mean in my mind it is easier to play a voiced character because then you effectively just have to like or hate them and deal with that facet for the rest of the game).

Personally... I don't MIND mute protags but I prefer voiced ones. Problem is I prefer well written, designed and created ones, and that feels like a rarity in most games. I am still a fan of being able to design an avatar or protag AND empathize with them, to SOME degree, so that the character becomes an amalgam of myself and who I want to fantasize about being. But I realize that's just ME.

::EDIT:: Whoops.. few posts slipped in before I finished mine.. Wanted to also state I agree with Manly Biceps, for the sake of consistency and cohesion, if everyone is voiced except the MC it does fee mighty questionable.. whereas if the whole cast is text it's no biggee... just like if a game had the MC be voiced and everyone else was just text it would feel mighty unbalanced...

[John Cavil]

I more or less agree with the capita---I mean Biceps.

I do personally like them, and prefer them in RPGs of any kind. It sort makes the prospect of a role-playing-game more engrossing. Follow your own script, not Motomu Toriyama's, y'know? At the same time, it is slightly jarring when your own character is the only one that is silent. Remember Grand Theft Auto III? Tt sure was awkward as hell, with so many chatty characters all around you, while your Claude just fixed an empty gaze, and gave a nod or two. Lol, this even became an in-joke when Claude reappeared in San Andreas ("Mute bastard! That snake without a tongue!").

So, I think the best approach today would be an evolution of that. Silent Protagonists work best in silent games - without talking. But today, everyone talks. Hence, having control over your character in all aspects is key. In short, follow Mass Effect's example. XD Shepard is by no means silent, but he certainly retains all the functions of a silent protagonist.

[izanagi_the_creator]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

I hate them in games where other characters speak. I figure if a designer wanted the player to imagine the main character to speak in their own voice, the designer should probably just give the player a wealth of dialogue options. It takes two to have a conversation, and seeing how people react to what the character has to say is a big part of video game storytelling, in my opinion.

I agree.

Unless the silent protagonist is given lots of decisions to choose from, it is best to have a voiced protagonist. In fact, voiced protagonists can make decisions too like Growlanser II.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by izanagi_the_creator

I agree.

Unless the silent protagonist is given lots of decisions to choose from, it is best to have a voiced protagonist. In fact, voiced protagonists can make decisions too like Growlanser II.

yeah but Wein really sucks (The i want to be a knight is soooo dump) only in the wolfgang path i can really like Wein. Carmaine and Souji are my favorite silent protagonists ever. Im with John if they evolve like shepard (you know choose a name and customise the main character appeareance give him a lot of choices) in the meantime the silent protagonist must stay.

[Manly Biceps]

As an addendum to my first post, I'd play a game that had a silent protagonist that had to face off against a silent antagonist.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

As an addendum to my first post, I'd play a game that had a silent protagonist that had to face off against a silent antagonist.

That would be cool since i imagine that the antagonist actions will be so shocking that more likely will define him.

[John Cavil]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

As an addendum to my first post, I'd play a game that had a silent protagonist that had to face off against a silent antagonist.

Like a rap battle between two mutes?

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

Like a rap battle between two mutes?

A mimic Battle!

[Leilee]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

As an addendum to my first post, I'd play a game that had a silent protagonist that had to face off against a silent antagonist.

I might just get a little crap for mentioning this but you can do this in Pokemon Gold/Silver by taking your character to some mountain somewhere to fight Ash/Red after beating the Elite Four.

When speaking to him even he just gives you some "........." and begins to battle you.

:O

[TopographicOcean]

I'm a fan of Silent Protagonists, personally.

I've never been one for immersion when it comes to videogames so that's not the reason why. Most of it has to do with enjoying a character express themselves using solely actions and body language.

I think it gives a character more personality when they speak less.

It's obviously not a universal rule, of course.

[lol, forums]

I would enjoy a silent protagonist if he/she had a vast array of more and more ludicrous facial expressions and body language to make up for the lack of speech. Ideally if each one for a given response was unique from all others.

But in reality, I don't really care one way or the other.

[Olethros]

I was beginning to wonder if you had died or something. Been a while...

[John Cavil]

Originally Posted by Olethros

I was beginning to wonder if you had died or something. Been a while...

Really? I was always under the impression that he had Type 2 Immortality. :<

[Olethros]

Close, but you accidentally added a T in there where it doesn't belong. He has Type 2 Immorality.

[John Cavil]

.....So he's the one who suspiciously laid out that innocent box cutter near the punch at Atlus's Halloween costume party...

[lol, forums]

I was laying low for a bit. Fun stuff happens when people come wielding an axe ready to grind and read things with little context.

[Saburo Hikari]

Originally Posted by lol, forums

I would enjoy a silent protagonist if he/she had a vast array of more and more ludicrous facial expressions and body language to make up for the lack of speech. Ideally if each one for a given response was unique from all others.

But in reality, I don't really care one way or the other.

Ever since I played Sakura Wars ~So Long, My Love~, that's what I actually wanted in more games and visual novels with dialogue choices. It would help let the player figure out what kind of tone your character is trying to go for the dialogue.

[Dmorktry]

It'd be nice if you had a voiced protagonist you had options such as personality, voice type/tone ect. Other than that silent protagonists work better for an immersive experience, especially (like someone said) if it's a game where your choices has a pretty big influence.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Dmorktry

It'd be nice if you had a voiced protagonist you had options such as personality, voice type/tone ect. Other than that silent protagonists work better for an immersive experience, especially (like someone said) if it's a game where your choices has a pretty big influence.

Shepard from Mass Effect is more likely the evolution of the silent protagonist plus you can rename him and change his aspect. I prefer the silent protagonist but Shepard is a good second option.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

I hate them in games where other characters speak. I figure if a designer wanted the player to imagine the main character to speak in their own voice, the designer should probably just give the player a wealth of dialogue options. It takes two to have a conversation, and seeing how people react to what the character has to say is a big part of video game storytelling, in my opinion.

Bioware's games have gone downhill in terms of character and charm since they adapted that philosophy. Dragon Age Origins is much, much better than DA2 and it has a great deal to do with the fact that characters like Allistair and Morrigan get to be the angel and devil hovering over your shoulder and getting fleshed out layer by layer.

Once they started having characters like Shepard and Hawke, those other characters became more shallow and less defined, even disposable. Is HK-47 as much of a cast-off as Zaeed? Heck no. Zaeed is inconsequential, he adds nothing to the experience - he's just there.

Allistair and Morrigan are constantly bickering, yet you never see Jack and Miranda going at it save for one scene in the game.

Voiced protagonists really just strip the charm out of these kinds of morality play. I'd hate to see a game like Persona or a main series SMT lose the kinds of well-rounded characters they have just because some vocal minority wants to see the protagonist babble so they can "relate."

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Bioware's games have gone downhill in terms of character and charm since they adapted that philosophy. Dragon Age Origins is much, much better than DA2 and it has a great deal to do with the fact that characters like Allistair and Morrigan get to be the angel and devil hovering over your shoulder and getting fleshed out layer by layer.

Once they started having characters like Shepard and Hawke, those other characters became more shallow and less defined, even disposable. Is HK-47 as much of a cast-off as Zaeed? Heck no. Zaeed is inconsequential, he adds nothing to the experience - he's just there.

Allistair and Morrigan are constantly bickering, yet you never see Jack and Miranda going at it save for one scene in the game.

Voiced protagonists really just strip the charm out of these kinds of morality play. I'd hate to see a game like Persona or a main series SMT lose the kinds of well-rounded characters they have just because some vocal minority wants to see the protagonist babble so they can "relate."

TOTALLY AGREE.

[Saburo Hikari]

One good compromise could be to have the option to have your character's dialogue voiced or un-voiced, like in visual novels or something.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Saburo Hikari

One good compromise could be to have the option to have your character's dialogue voiced or un-voiced, like in visual novels or something.

It doesnt matter if is voiced or not the point is the MC personality. Is like in lets say final fantasy 7 and 8 the characters doesnt have voice but the lines still take you out of the experience and voice dont work always like in Final X where the main character talks and both the lines and the voice are awful. Bttom line they must not ever give a text box to any Persona main Character (Wein already defiled the Growlanser series).

[Manly Biceps]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Bioware's games have gone downhill in terms of character and charm since they adapted that philosophy. Dragon Age Origins is much, much better than DA2 and it has a great deal to do with the fact that characters like Allistair and Morrigan get to be the angel and devil hovering over your shoulder and getting fleshed out layer by layer.

What you see as a failure in having the character speak, I see as flawed writing. Furthermore...

Originally Posted by Foobar

Allistair and Morrigan are constantly bickering, yet you never see Jack and Miranda going at it save for one scene in the game.

I really don't see how you completely skipped over every logical conclusion to assume that this particular issue was the result of having a voiced main character. Furthermore, you're seriously ignoring a lot of Bioware's history with your claims.

The quality of storytelling and dialogue between Baldur's Gate I, Baldur's Gate II, and Planescape: Torment is vastly different, yet the stories are all told with a voiced protagonist. It, therefore, clearly is not a case of Bioware being unable to do stories with voiced protagonists well, and only excel when writing stories with silent protagonists. Planescape: Torment is considered by many people to be the pinnacle of storytelling in video game history (I personally don't agree, but that's besides the point.) so it's quite clear to me that Bioware simply has an issue with inconsistent writing quality, not that having a voiced protagonist is inferior.

Originally Posted by Foobar

Once they started having characters like Shepard and Hawke, those other characters became more shallow and less defined, even disposable. Is HK-47 as much of a cast-off as Zaeed? Heck no. Zaeed is inconsequential, he adds nothing to the experience - he's just there.

No crap he's just there! He's tacked-on DLC! He specifically couldn't affect the main game! We can't have a debate here if you're going to keep comparing apples to iPhones, and pretending that lends itself to some kind of conclusion.

Originally Posted by Foobar

I'd hate to see a game like Persona or a main series SMT lose the kinds of well-rounded characters they have just because some vocal minority wants to see the protagonist babble so they can "relate."

You honestly believe that people who want their protagonists to speak the way they do in vast majority of every other medium are the "vocal minority"? I'd love to see how you came to that conclusion.

(Also, before you go run off and start making internet threads exclaiming, "Atlus hates silent protagonists, voiced MC in every Persona game from now on - CONFIRMED!!1!one!shift + one" I'm going to nip that in the bud and tell you that I exert absolutely no design input on any of Atlus Japan's products. This is just a debate over personal preferences amongst us gamers here.)