Endurance is the key...

[bopjo1]

...to many things.

[RedRocket]

That's exactly what my wife keeps telling me

[Oceanborn]

Uh... so?! :question:

[bopjo1]

LOL sometimes too MUCH endurance is a problem with the ladies. They can't keep up.

[bopjo1]

Uh... so?! :question:

Ocean, as a new player I am training myself to focus more on the stamina bar instead of 100% focus on my health bar. Thinking about stamina means learning to let your shield down to recharge faster and knowing when to get it back up again. I am training myself with this by co-op playing against the Armored Spider.

Also I am trying to get my endurance stats up to increase my stamina and get all those other benefits that come with it.

[XtremeDeath]

Endurance alone is not the key. You could have more endurance than your opponent and still loose. Endurance management, however, is key. To be really good at Demon's Souls, you should play with a low vitality (below 15). Doing so will teach you better defensive skills. You see, I've learned the real reason why there is the soul level 120 sub culture. I't s real simple. Those builds only work at that level. The closer you get to 200 player skill becomes more important and not the advantage in one skill or another you may have at 120. Now that my "toon" is at soul level 173, I'm finding I can beat more and more Black Phantoms that invade with my Jack of all Trades build. I'm not particularly skilled. I've just had to learn to play better.

[Oceanborn]

Uh... so?! :question:

Ocean, as a new player I am training myself to focus more on the stamina bar instead of 100% focus on my health bar. Thinking about stamina means learning to let your shield down to recharge faster and knowing when to get it back up again. I am training myself with this by co-op playing against the Armored Spider.

Also I am trying to get my endurance stats up to increase my stamina and get all those other benefits that come with it.
Yes but why do you make a thread like that with a single line split between the thread title and content?

[bopjo1]

well said X...it's the management

[Fefe]

It doesn't unlock the locked doors scattered throughout the game. You loseeee.

[pointchiz]

Endurance alone is not the key. You could have more endurance than your opponent and still loose. Endurance management, however, is key. To be really good at Demon's Souls, you should play with a low vitality (below 15). Doing so will teach you better defensive skills. You see, I've learned the real reason why there is the soul level 120 sub culture. I't s real simple. Those builds only work at that level. The closer you get to 200 player skill becomes more important and not the advantage in one skill or another you may have at 120. Now that my "toon" is at soul level 173, I'm finding I can beat more and more Black Phantoms that invade with my Jack of all Trades build. I'm not particularly skilled. I've just had to learn to play better.

I've learned that a good player can see his opponents stamina. Not physically see it but, predict it by observing his movements (rolling/swinging) and how he uses his shield (keeping the shield up reduces stamina regeneration).

If you can learn to predict your opponents stamina you can use this skill to capitalize on his mistakes. Players generally walk backwards or roll away to regenerate their stamina bar when it gets depleted. Sometimes a good defense is a good offense. You can keep pressure on them by switching to a fast 1 handed weapon. Sometimes they'll panic and keep rolling away. If you can keep their stamina low you can nail them hard.

[Frilly_Bits]

If you can learn to predict your opponents stamina you can use this skill to capitalize on his mistakes. Players generally walk backwards or roll away to regenerate their stamina bar when it gets depleted. Sometimes a good defense is a good offense. You can keep pressure on them by switching to a fast 1 handed weapon. Sometimes they'll panic and keep rolling away. If you can keep their stamina low you can nail them hard.

The Uchi dash works particularly well with this strategy, especially if you are pitted against an opponent that is dual wielding a weapon or doesn't use a shield. Managing your own stamina while leading this type of assault is tricky though.

[Slazer]

Endurance alone is not the key. You could have more endurance than your opponent and still loose. Endurance management, however, is key. To be really good at Demon's Souls, you should play with a low vitality (below 15). Doing so will teach you better defensive skills. You see, I've learned the real reason why there is the soul level 120 sub culture. I't s real simple. Those builds only work at that level. The closer you get to 200 player skill becomes more important and not the advantage in one skill or another you may have at 120. Now that my "toon" is at soul level 173, I'm finding I can beat more and more Black Phantoms that invade with my Jack of all Trades build. I'm not particularly skilled. I've just had to learn to play better.

The biggest reason people duel at 120 is because at that level there is the largest variety of builds that are viable for competitive play. Any higher like 200 and the Blueblood Build has a massive advantage to damage any lower and Dragon weapons builds will have a massive advantage. Any higher than 200 and every build will basically be a jack of all trades and there will be next to no variety. If you ask me and most people who duel on a regular basis I think we would all agree level 120 measures skill the most.

[Vendrine]

I think that the PvP around SL 120 requires more skill. Mostly, because you have to deal with the different builds that people have, and find their weaknesses.

[Frilly_Bits]

If you ask me and most people who duel on a regular basis I think we would all agree level 120 measures skill the most.

:agree:

[XtremeDeath]

To measure player skill, both players would have to have the same build at any soul level. If you are measuring build vs. build, then you are right. Player skill is involved less when everyone's build is unique. Because each build enjoys an advantage over other builds. The only measurement there is strategy.

[Morrigan Stark]

Knowing how to take advantage of a build's strengths and exploit the other build's weaknesses IS what makes a player skilled...

[HarbingerOfChaos]

Ever been one swing away from killing someone, then ran out of stamina?

Feels bad man.

[pointchiz]

Knowing how to take advantage of a build's strengths and exploit the other build's weaknesses IS what makes a player skilled...

In NASCAR all cars are built the same and the better driver is who usually wins. In the Formula 1 a bad driver can still win if he's driving a better car.

[Spine-Fist]

I can't think of any competetive game that makes all players identical, nor can I think of one that would benefit from it.

[Hexpane]

Knowing how to take advantage of a build's strengths and exploit the other build's weaknesses IS what makes a player skilled...

In NASCAR all cars are built the same and the better driver is who usually wins. In the Formula 1 a bad driver can still win if he's driving a better car.
In NASCAR all the cars are garbage and the drivers have bad mullets and mustaches...

I agree tho, the problems w/ Dragon Sword and Blueblood are really just a symptom of overall issues with some weapons being outright better than others

[pointchiz]

I can't think of any competetive game that makes all players identical, nor can I think of one that would benefit from it.

Diversity is necessary for replay value. Most developers today don't create 2 different rule sets for PVE and PVP. A PVP only game has a much smaller target market than a PVE game. Out of the 300,000 Demon's Souls copies sold, I'm sure a very small fraction play online competitively.

[RedRocket]

Knowing how to take advantage of a build's strengths and exploit the other build's weaknesses IS what makes a player skilled...

In NASCAR all cars are built the same and the better driver is who usually wins. In the Formula 1 a bad driver can still win if he's driving a better car.

Yeah but at least Formula 1 is interesting

[Hahalo]

The game is simple, the endurance are predictable based on your opponent weapon, and play style.

If you pvp enough, you naturally know how many swing he has left.

[XtremeDeath]

Knowing how to take advantage of a build's strengths and exploit the other build's weaknesses IS what makes a player skilled...

In NASCAR all cars are built the same and the better driver is who usually wins. In the Formula 1 a bad driver can still win if he's driving a better car.

The above is a good example. Using the example above, that would make everyone who brags about their PvP character a Formula 1 driver -- not a NASCAR driver. The best drivers are NASCAR drivers. They're not afraid to compete on the same level and trust their skill and talent will see them to the finish line. That's the difference.

[RedRocket]

The best drivers are NASCAR drivers

Sorry. And I'm taking this out of context of the current thread discussion, but your statement there is 100% subjective.

I'd pit a rally driver as better drivers any day. But again, subjective.

[Slazer]

IMO the only thing that ruins the competitiveness at level 712 is the fact that everyone would use the BBS(or at least most) because of how it can kill anyone in 1 combo. I do agree that having the exact same build measures skills but it wouldnt be much of a game if everyone was the same. So for future reference level 712 does not even exist to me because its not a serious level to duel at(just for fun). So when it comes to having a good game with a variety of builds in pvp then I would say level 120 is the best for measuring skill. :lol: this is the second time I have seen someone bring up the level 712 thing. It cracks me up everytime :lol:

[Jingseng]

dine with me. Kielbasa.

[jlwood830]

Yeah, but isn't it great when you know you're just one hit from killing the other player or dying yourself... then see who makes the next right move 'cause they win every time.

[HarbingerOfChaos]

At 712 there are plenty of better weapons than BlueBlood.

712 is the perfect level to pvp at.

[Slazer]

At 712 there are plenty of better weapons than BlueBlood.

712 is the perfect level to pvp at.

Name one other weapon that will kill in one combo(including SC). And I dont mean another weapon with the same moveset because I know for a fact all of those will be weaker than BBS.

[a2thecs]

blueblood should be the best i think but not because of most dmg tho.

[DH321]

Endurance is the key until it reaches level 40. Nuff said.

And to Slegan's post, I agree that the BBS RAPES! Cuts through warding like butter too.

[RobOfTheBean]

eh, forget it.....

[pointchiz]

Blue Blood + Light Weapon + Insanity Catalyst would have over 800 attack power per swing no?

That would probably shred through a player's HP in 2 or 3 two handed swings.

[Slazer]

Blue Blood + Light Weapon + Insanity Catalyst would have over 800 attack power per swing no?

That would probably shred through a player's HP in 2 or 3 two handed swings.

5 Hits I believe and considering it can hit 6 times its more than enough. Also its a good weapon for chasing.

[pointchiz]

Blue Blood + Light Weapon + Insanity Catalyst would have over 800 attack power per swing no?

That would probably shred through a player's HP in 2 or 3 two handed swings.

5 Hits I believe and considering it can hit 6 times its more than enough. Also its a good weapon for chasing.

5 hits would be 4000 damage unmitigated. Max vitality is 1900 HP and that's if you're in body form. Are you sure it's 5?

[Slazer]

Blue Blood + Light Weapon + Insanity Catalyst would have over 800 attack power per swing no?

That would probably shred through a player's HP in 2 or 3 two handed swings.

5 Hits I believe and considering it can hit 6 times its more than enough. Also its a good weapon for chasing.

5 hits would be 4000 damage unmitigated. Max vitality is 1900 HP and that's if you're in body form. Are you sure it's 5?

Well im not 100% sure. Watch harbringers pvp video he was at full health and it took him 5 hits I believe.

EDIT: I just watched the video and he landed 1 hit then a shove then 4 hits to kill him. All 2 handed

[rkzhao]

You have to remember that atk rating does not equal dmg and BBS has split dmg to get reduced by def even more.

EDIT: I was throwing out wrong numbers oops :P