Series Review (Nocturne spoilers possibly)

[Archie55]

I'm am semi-new to the series, but what I have I love. Totally getting this as soon as I can. But here's the thing: I've played some persona games (My buddy has a ps2, but not nocturne) and i'm working my way through Devil Survivor. I don't have any trouble understanding anything so far, but besides the basics (like demon invasion) is there anything that I need to know (any mega demons or things I should watch out for) before I play this? I know this hasn't come out here yet, but I assume some other people out there are more dedicated to SMT than I am, so they would know things that will help me so I don't throw my DS across the room.

[Foobar]

Key differences:

Negotiation - In the main series SMT games (Devil Survivor and Persona are spin-offs) you're going to have the option to negotiate with demons during random encounters. You use this as means to persuade a demon to join your cause or to sucker them into fusion, but this technique can also end up rewarding you with items, eliminating the need to fight or - if things go sour and you tick the demon off - they might stay and fight or just plain take off.

Dungeons - You're probably familar with some of the dungeon quirks in Persona 4. Expect more here.

Alignment - You've seen this element in Devil Survivor, it will be more strongly emphasized in Strange Journey. Your alignment will affect which demons participate in an extra turn of attacks, what quests become available to you an what the ending/endgame could be come.

No happy high school life - In SMT, the end of the world is happening, about to happen or happened long ago. Be prepared for a darker, more desolate world and a possibly a less story-driven experience. Expect some of the themes you've seen emerge in Devil Survivor to unfold here, expect to see the worst in humans come out to play, but don't expect day-to-day life sims or social links.

---

As far as combat goes, you already have a general idea of some of the ins-and-outs of exploiting weaknesses and you probably have learned the value of buffs - remember those things for Strange Journey and you should do OK.

[Archie55]

Awesome. I can't wait for this. I like the darker themes. I don't like RPG's very much and sometimes all the "happy happy joy joy" makes me sick. But once I played an SMT game, I got freaking hooked. Not too bright, and it makes you wonder about people. Which is good.

[Archie55]

Just wondering... Would anything in Nocturne ultimately make this happen? Like, did the protagonist from that ultimately create this world, or like send something from his new world to this world? Like... Does this have anything to do with Nocturne basically? I know that only once has a protagonist starred in two games (Devil summoner), but the rest of the series (persona) has had different protagonists, and (pretty much, with the exception being the persona 2's) had nothing to do with the other games, besides cameos.

[Inzaghi]

Like... Does this have anything to do with Nocturne basically?

No, it's a freestanding story. You don't need to have played any other games to understand SJ.

[Kenji]

Just wondering... Would anything in Nocturne ultimately make this happen? Like, did the protagonist from that ultimately create this world, or like send something from his new world to this world?
With a few exceptions, no MegaTen requires you to have played another MegaTen. The few exceptions that do exist were planned as a single unit and released within a very short time from each other (Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment, DDS1 and 2).

If you're interested in possible worlds that the Hitoshura might've created, I theorized off in another topic about how the Junkyard looks a lot like how I imagine a Yosuga world to be. Go on and check it out, but I warn that it's an essay.

As for Strange Journey, the prologue states there are seven billion people in the world, which puts it a little ways ahead of now in the future. This automatically means that it's in a separate timeline from both the Great Destruction and Tokyo Conception timelines. I suppose it's possible for it to be linked to if..., but highly unlikely as Persona is attached to that timeline.

So, new timeline. Pretty sure. There might be references to other MegaTen games, though.

[Archie55]

Okay. So, another question here. I've noticed that in videos for P3P, there was a moon at the top of the screen. A couple videos I saw had the same dungeon and there was a different boss- once it was a full moon and then it wasn't. Does the moon effect demons strengths? Will I have to avoid playing it on a real world day, or does it go by its own time?

[Inzaghi]

Okay. So, another question here. I've noticed that in videos for P3P, there was a moon at the top of the screen. A couple videos I saw had the same dungeon and there was a different boss- once it was a full moon and then it wasn't. Does the moon effect demons strengths? Will I have to avoid playing it on a real world day, or does it go by its own time?

The moon (or occasionally sun, or Kagutsuchi, but usually moon) phases always affect things in SMT games. The phase of the moon is always in-game, though, and has nothing to do with the real-world day you're playing it on. In P3P, the moon naturally shifts one phase for each in-game day. In Strange Journey and most other games, it'll advance after taking a certain number of steps.

[Archie55]

Alright. I see now. I really hate to have to ask another question... But...
Do all the games have some ultimate holy message of some kind? Because in Devil Survivor, I'm sensing something may want to be pounded into my skull. But that's okay, I'm just wondering if Heaven and Hell have a lot to do with pretty much everything.

[DDanny]

Law vs Chaos is a pretty common thing in the main megaten games besides Nocturne, it's also present in Devil Survivor.
As the leader of Law is the Judeo-Christian God, there are usually lots of religious undertones in the games. On the other had, Lucifer is the leader of demons and fights for Chaos, although he's been more of a watcher in the recent games.
In the middle of all that you can also be Neutral and kill them all for balance.

[cj iwakura]

It's even hinted at in Digital Devil Saga. (2, mostly, Angel makes mention of a LvC conflict.)

Not so much in Nocturne, since the Messians and Gaians are all dead, but you run into their ghosts in the Amala.

Pre-world ending Nocturne feels like a continuation of the other SMTs, since it has Messians and Gaians bickering with each other like usual.

[Archie55]

Law vs Chaos is a pretty common thing in the main megaten games besides Nocturne, it's also present in Devil Survivor.
As the leader of Law is the Judeo-Christian God, there are usually lots of religious undertones in the games. On the other had, Lucifer is the leader of demons and fights for Chaos, although he's been more of a watcher in the recent games.
In the middle of all that you can also be Neutral and kill them all for balance.
So... I know SMT games are dark, but it kinda seems like you are evil in two of the three options. If you were to kill Lucifer, then an angel? Maybe a little extreme, but hey. I don't care. It's still gonna be awesome. So then, if in Nocturne, you were shaping your own world, you were pretty much god, right? So then, seeing as there are three paths in this game, will you be changed more than just the demons you can talk to? Like, will you get powers like LAW ONLY or demons that are CHOAS ONLY and so on and so forth? Or does your character only change through leveling? I know it might not be answerable about this game, so I want to know if you got bonuses in previous games.

[Pantaloons]

Neutral is more like choosing neither side and having either or both extremes decide that if you're not with them then you are against them, so you end up having to fight them.

Anyway in this game the alignment is mostly for the ending, equipments your main character can use (Probably just like old SMT games with contain both alignments AND equipment I'm sure), and the "co-op attacks". Old SMT games restricted you in other ways like in SMT1 and 2 if you were Law aligned you could not summon Chaos demons, or summon Law demons as Chaos alignment.

In this game, you can use demons of all alignments regardless of your current alignment, but it benefits you most to have all demons of the same alignment as the main character except like at the end of the game where you get access to ridiculously powerful skills that aren't really going to be hitting weaknesses anyway.

If you were neutral and you had a team of all neutral demons for example, your turn could look like this

Main Character hits an enemy weakness - Demon #1 #2 #3 all do co-op attacks off of the main character's turn.
Demon #1 hits an enemy weakness - Main Character, Demon #2 and Demon #3 all do co-op attacks off of this demon's turn.
Demon #2 hits an enemy weakness - Main Character, Demon #1 and Demon #3 all do co-op attacks off of this demon's turn.
Demon #3 hits an enemy weakness - Main Character, Demon #1 and Demon #2 all do co-op attacks off of this demon's turn.

So you'd score up to 12 extra hits which would be plenty of extra damage.

Whereas if you had a Neutral main character with all Law and/or Chaos demons, you would get no co-op attacks. Or if you had say 2 Neutral characters and 2 Chaos Characters, their co-op attacks would be only with 1 other character (and not do as much as the all-one-alignment setup) although all of the characters would still be able to perform them if they hit a weakness. The all same alignment setup of course would get THREE TIMES as many possible co-op attacks as having a mixed party of 2 characters of 2 alignments for example.

[Archie55]

Sweet. I'll keep that in mind when recruiting demons. I'm playing persona for PSP now, and so far I get everything. There's one thing I'm not sure about, though. The whole JOYFUL-FOOLISH thing. Is that going to be in this? If so, can someone explain a little deeper for me? Because, although I haven't asked Igor about to many things, I know I haven't asked about this.

[Kenji]

The first two (three) Persona games are a lot more upfront with their Contact structure than the main SMT games. Thanks to P1 and P2's four emotional reactions, it's easier to figure out what works and what doesn't and use that to predict how to interact with future demons.

SMT doesn't feature these cues, which means you'll have to pay more attention to a demon's speaking style to pick up the same clues. On one hand, it takes a little longer to figure it out; on the other, Contact doesn't get boring because it is more difficult to figure out (also, there are more random tangents that SMT series demons will go down: i.e. the same tactic won't always work).

[Archie55]

The first two (three) Persona games are a lot more upfront with their Contact structure than the main SMT games. Thanks to P1 and P2's four emotional reactions, it's easier to figure out what works and what doesn't and use that to predict how to interact with future demons.

SMT doesn't feature these cues, which means you'll have to pay more attention to a demon's speaking style to pick up the same clues. On one hand, it takes a little longer to figure it out; on the other, Contact doesn't get boring because it is more difficult to figure out (also, there are more random tangents that SMT series demons will go down: i.e. the same tactic won't always work).
Kay. I see.
I though that that was a little annoying. How they same tactic works a lot. It will be good to have to think a little more. And by the way, I wouldn't mind reading the essay thing. If you don't mind. Is it on a website or something?

[Silverevilchao]

Sounds like a really stupid question but...does a demon's role in its respective mythology come into play in terms of its alignment for negotiation?

[four_black_hearts]

Not necessarily, Many Clan/Alignment choices don't make any sense at all!

[Nephlabobo]

As for Strange Journey, the prologue states there are seven billion people in the world, which puts it a little ways ahead of now in the future. This automatically means that it's in a separate timeline from both the Great Destruction and Tokyo Conception timelines. I suppose it's possible for it to be linked to if..., but highly unlikely as Persona is attached to that timeline.

So, new timeline. Pretty sure. There might be references to other MegaTen games, though.

AHA! So it's *not* SMT IV. :D

[cj iwakura]

Not necessarily, Many Clan/Alignment choices don't make any sense at all!

Thor, for example, is Law in SMT1 and Chaos(essentially) in SMT3.

[Kenji]

And by the way, I wouldn't mind reading the essay thing. If you don't mind. Is it on a website or something?
I have several, and I put them all in this topic. (http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4373) I'm a little slow when it comes to responding though, so it's not that terribly lively.

AHA! So it's *not* SMT IV.
Well, if you're gonna use that logic, then Nocturne shouldn't be SMTIII. Zero relevant plot connection. :p

Actually, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we never see another numbered main series game again, since they dropped the number partially for the increasingly important Western market.

[Archie55]

Thanks. I agree with another person: You are truly and SMT scholar! And I agree with you about the numbering system. SMT games aren't really relevant to each others story, so why number them? Does anybody know why they were numbered in the first place? Because other wise we could be calling Devil Survivor SMT #whatever.

[Kenji]

Haha, thank you! :) I like to think I'm contributing something to the Western fanbase.

Regarding the numbering of main SMT games, it definitely makes sense between SMT and SMTII, since they are connected by world and story (SMTII follows the Neutral ending of SMT). Best I can guess is that if... wasn't numbered because it uses so many assets from the first two games, the most obvious being the soundtrack, leading to a short development time. If they had labeled that one with a number, the fans might've felt cheated.

Nocturne was, in many ways, like FFXIII is now: a major part of its development was to create an engine that'd be used in future titles on its platform (PS2 and PS3, respectively). For the sake of sales, labeling it SMTIII, even though it had just as much to do with the Great Destruction as if..., would serve to generate interest after an entire console cycle of no main SMT games (the PSX and Saturn had brought us Persona and Devil Summoner).

Now we have Strange Journey, which has enough gameplay and thematic connection with the first two SMT games to deserve a place in the main series, but has as much to do with them plotwise as if... and Nocturne. In hindsight, it'd be better of none of these three were numbered, but c'est la vie.

I suppose another mystery would be why it's Megami Ibunroku Devil Survivor instead of Majin Tensei: Devil Survivor. I guess Majin Tensei never moved that many copies, so using its name would lead to no benefit.

[cj iwakura]

I assume it was called Megami Ibunroku to pull in the Persona crowd, since that's what the first game had as a subtitle, and Devil Survivor has similar themes(if not gameplay).

[Archie55]

Okay. If anybody has played this yet, do they have any pointers?