What is the Blue Butterfly/Moth?

[Evilkinggumby]

Hey folks. I am working on some custom Mod work that falls within the SMT universe, more closely tied to the Persona series.

I was hoping a few of you folks that are better versed in the SMT lore could explain to me what the blue butterfly that shows up in the games is supposed to be? Or who? Or what it symbolizes?

Or if you know of a handy link to a site that explains it that is also appreciated. :)

Thanks in advance!!

-EKG

[Onion of Mystery]

Just look up Philemon. The character, not the poster.

[unknown]

I thought Philemon was a yellow butterfly?

And that the blue butterfly represented P3 MC and the Thanatos thing...

[TheDoctor]

Apparently the blue butterfly also represents Philemon, it shows he's still around.

I remember seeing it at the save points in P4.

[Raptorg]

Persona 3

Philemon may have appeared in Persona 3 in his butterfly guise. Only the playable characters who met Philemon could summon multiple Personas, but others, who had not encountered him, could only summon a single Persona. In Persona 3, this is explained to be due to one possessing the Wild Card. The only two characters to possess this ability in Persona 3 and its epilogue, both had an encounter with a glowing blue butterfly, which may be Philemon. The name "PHIL" which welcomes to main character in the online game "Innocent Sin", may also be a reference to Philemon.
[edit]
Persona 4

The save points throughout the game are blue butterflies flying in small circles. This, as well as the appearance of the butterfly in various animations in Persona 3, are stated by Atlus in an interview in the DoubleJump guide to be a sign that Philemon is still watching over the player.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Philemon

[Evilkinggumby]

Danke for the information thus far. I have actually been to the site you linked Raptorg, it's fairly useful. As well I have done some diggin on Carl Jung too thanks to Onion's brief tutelage.

I was hoping to have some people explain their take on him(philemon/aka the butterfly) in their own words, to get a consensus of how players interpret him as a character and icon in the games. Do you like him, hate him etc. :seesaw:

And does anyone know if he is akin to other SMT series aside from persona? It seems like he is only pertinent to that franchise, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Foobar]

You remember that issue of Batman/Superman in the last year or so where Mr. Myxzpltk and Bat-Mite made a bet? Without saying too much, that's kind of the reason why we only see Philemon as a butterfly now. The reason is connected to Persona 2: IS and Persona 2: EP.

I think that's saying enough without saying too much.

[elf_boobs]

Im not sure what you're saying, but I'm dying to know...

[Chromanin]

You remember that issue of Batman/Superman in the last year or so where Mr. Myxzpltk and Bat-Mite made a bet? Without saying too much, that's kind of the reason why we only see Philemon as a butterfly now. The reason is connected to Persona 2: IS and Persona 2: EP.

Superman/Batman #52? Myxzpltk and Bat-Mite make a bet on whether the world is inherently good or evil. I never played Persona 2. So I still wouldn't be able to figure this out, but I'll take a wild guess. Did Philemon and the Joker make the same bet and Philemon lost, the consequences of which restricted him to butterfly form..? Or are the Jokers of Persona 2 more like Joker and Lil' Joker from the comic while Philemon is Lil' Superman? Did Philemon sacrifice himself?

Sure wish I didn't stop reading comic books.

[Evilkinggumby]

Many thanks foobar. Sadly, no I don't buy or read comics(i haven't since I was reading Conan and the first issues of the original Transformers back in the 80's)

I heard something like that (the "bet" ) across these forums before, but I haven't ever found a citation I could rely on or with the extensive info that could help me here. I would actually like to know exactly what is "too much" to say. If you know whatsup and are worried people might get spoiled, just spoiler-hide it, but I am beggin for any help on this. I know you have a good grasp of the material and a headful of lore, so of many people on the board I actually trust you to be a straight shooter (i've seen you get b*tchslapped by mods for it lol)

In order to do the work I am doing and in every effort to be accurate and true to the Atlus concept I would like to know exactly what Philemon is and what his role within both the persona universe itself, and within specific stories, is.

[Foobar]

Superman/Batman #52? Myxzpltk and Bat-Mite make a bet on whether the world is inherently good or evil.

Dang it, I was trying to be obscure, but yeah, it was Superman/Batman #51-52. Age old plot device where two deities make a bet and things go south from there.

Philemon and the entity assuming the role of The Joker have a similar bet going on. The reason for Philemon assuming butterfly form isn't because he lost so much as there's an incident he didn't intend to happen and feels remorse over. Taking on the form of the Butterfly after granting a particular wish, he just doesn't get as directly involved anymore.

He still helps and observes, just in more subtle ways. He still believes the basis of his bet is true - that humans can prove their own potential for good - and that why he stays in the background. He's just there to help even the odds and lets that occur mostly through his agents.

[Evilkinggumby]

Thanks foobar. That helps. I will have to hope I can find similar "subtle" ways. but then if philemon is being all subtle, does that mean the other guy nyal-blah blah is too or is he being far more heavy handed?