Future Diary: Glimpse of the 13th Diary Holder (Visual Novel, PSP)

[Enzeru]

http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/game/mirainikki/

Future Diary: Glimpse of the 13th Diary Holder is your standard visual novel game. So why localize this and not another? Future Diary as gained quite a foothold in the US, and releasing this game in the US could prove fairly profitable, with Tokyopop saying it could be the next Death Note. I know this has very little chance to be released in the US, but please consider doing so. I really love Future Diary and I know this may just be another manga turned visual novel to most people, but it would be just awesome if this got released here! Thank you for your consideration.

[Hamel]

You have more chance with NISA seeing as they are translating the Disgaea VN now

[Enzeru]

You have more chance with NISA seeing as they are translating the Disgaea VN nowReally? Shows what's happens when you're gone for a few days.

[JeremyR]

NISA's got a zillion NIS games to do though. When was the last time they did one that wasn't from them? Holy Invasion of Privacy Badman, and that was pretty small...

edit: Gah, forgot Sakura Wars. But I meant for the PSP mostly, they've got what 4 games in Japan to do over something like this (La Pucelle, Prinny 2, their rogue like game, their classic dungeon game, and then stuff from friendly companies like Mana Khemia portable 2 and that new Iris PSP game)

[Einherjar]

You have more chance with NISA seeing as they are translating the Disgaea VN now

Damn, beat me to it.

But seriously, if it takes Nisa, NISA, the company that has the balls to localize Sakura Wars in the end of PS2 era, to localize an VN that is heavily based on a popular series spanning multiple games, first commercial console/handheld localization ever, so your chances of asking one that didn't even receive an anime adaptation here is not very favourable. Still a great manga though.

[miruki]

All I mostly heard about the manga this game is based on, is that the hero is awful and the story is very predictable. That doesn't really sound awesome to me...

[AdrianMorales]

I am all up for for a localisation on ATLUS' part, but what are the chances? ATLUS, just like 99% of all USA/EU game companies out there, are stingy when it comes to visual novels.

[Hamel]

I am all up for for a localisation on ATLUS' part, but what are the chances? ATLUS, just like 99% of all USA/EU game companies out there, are stingy when it comes to visual novels.

I don't think they are stingy
They are a buisness and a lot of people outside of Japan don't like these kind of games

[Soushi_Grapple]

I love visual novels.. yet have never heard of this. lol

[Tivor]

I love visual novels.. yet have never heard of this. lol

That's probably because you (presumably) don't know of the original manga series. I don't know much about the game itself, but even Enzeru acknowledges that it's a standard VN fare whose only claim to distinction is that it's a manga tie-in game.

Personally, I enjoyed what I read of the manga well enough, but I doubt its fanbase in America is anywhere near big enough to warrant a VN localization. Yes, it has a bit of loyal fans on the internet, but overall, I say that it's still closer to being "obscure" than being "popular". On top of that, we all know that internet fanbase does not always translate to paying customers.

If Atlus were to venture into VN market, I think there are better selections out there.

[wyrdwad]

If Atlus were to venture into VN market, I think there are better selections out there.

Like Umineko no Naku Koro ni... please? (:

Playing/reading that VN with an Atlus translation would be GLORIOUS.

-Tom

[Hamel]

If Atlus were to venture into VN market, I think there are better selections out there.

Like Umineko no Naku Koro ni... please? (:

Playing/reading that VN with an Atlus translation would be GLORIOUS.

-Tom

Seeing as Umineko has a translation supported by Ryukishi07 himself that's not THAT great of an option (that and since when does Atlus translate PC games?)

[wyrdwad]

It's a fan-translation, though, and it's not "Atlus quality."

And Atlus doesn't publish PC games, but I'm sure they COULD if they wanted to. (:

-Tom

[Hamel]

While it's not Atlus quality it's a damn good fan translation
Yes, they have some mistakes but it's still great

[wyrdwad]

It's above-average, definitely. But it's not really GREAT. It's overly literal, and doesn't come across as particularly professional.

Then again, I'm EXTREMELY critical of fan-translations, as I'm a long-time fan-translator myself - got 51 episodes of anime under my belt (both seasons of PopoloCrois), one movie (Higurashi no Naku Koro ni live-action), and am working on several Falcom games right now. So it bugs me when I see a translation, fan or otherwise, that I feel could be better than it is.

-Tom

[Einherjar]

It's a fan-translation, though, and it's not "Atlus quality."

And Atlus doesn't publish PC games, but I'm sure they COULD if they wanted to. (:

-Tom


Ahahahaha..... You have no idea. It's the fans that actually knows more about the VNs. Take a fan who is not just very fluent, but very knowledgeable in both languages, and have read many materials to the vn and have understood the series to a deep level, he/she will translate the vn better than any localization.

Hell, I wouldn't like to see a ####ty localization like F/SN anime. Sure, the anime sucked, but Archer's chant is bull####. If I want anything translated, I want something of Takajun's quality.

[wyrdwad]

Well, that's the thing, though... if you have a really good localization company - which Atlus definitely is - they will BECOME experts on the game before they even BEGIN translating. It comes with the territory, and there are very few companies I would trust with something like Umineko... but Atlus is definitely one of them.

Fans may know the material best, but fans rarely manage to achieve the level of professionalism that a GOOD localization company can deliver. I speak from experience here... I fansubbed the entire PopoloCrois anime, and am very proud of the work I did on it... but if I were to do it again now, I would change a LOT of my translations, as I definitely stuck WAY too close to the original script, and left WAY too many words in Japanese (the idea being that I'd better be able to preserve nuance that way - but in the end, all it did was confuse people!).

I seek to make amends for that with my current fan-translation project, which should hopefully turn out to be absolutely 100% professional-quality when it's done. No more regrets!

-Tom

[Einherjar]

Fans may know the material best, but fans rarely manage to achieve the level of professionalism that a GOOD localization company can deliver.

Which is why I'm very fortunate to have mirror moon translate TYPE-MOON materials. As I have said, a localization may be better than fan-translation, but it will never surpass a fan translation at its best, especially when the game isn't stand alone and has many other side materials. Unless the localizing staff themselves are fans, there's no way that they'll go read up on all the materials, like 7 books of Kara no kyokai, then go read up on the side-materials, and play through Tsukihime, then even Fate/HA, and Kagetsu Tohya, and even go on ircs for extended search, just to localize F/SN. Nobody is that workaholic. A localization company can only go so far. If you have translated so much work, then you should know that better than anyone, unless most are not as plot heavy or deal with deep concepts (like quantum physics), such as Ys games.


All that being said, I won't just say nothing after you have talked down Umineko no Naku Koro ni, especially since even the creator themselves acknowledged them.
http://novelnews.net/2009/01/07/07th-expansion-gives-official-sanction-for-umineko-translation/

Most Visual Novel translators nowadays are very professional, so what's to say that they can't do better than the people who are working to get paid?

[wyrdwad]

I'm going by my own experiences here. Yes, the Umineko fan-translations are great... but they COULD be better. Basically, if I feel *I* could do a better job translating something, then I'm pretty sure Atlus could as well. And if I were willing to put the time and effort into translating Umineko, I am 100% confident that I could personally do a better job than the people who are translating it now. (No offense intended, if you guys are reading this - the fact that you're WILLING to translate so much material, and that you're able to get it done so quickly, already puts you WELL ahead of me in terms of pure devotion to your work!)

And all you really need to know to translate Umineko IS Umineko. I guess it'd help to also be familiar with Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, but even that isn't required - as long as you've read all the visual novels for Umineko, you could easily create a top-quality localization that's FAR AND AWAY better than the existing fan-translation.

-Tom

[Hamel]

You could always offer them your help
seeing as they are stuck on 3% for the 6th game, another hand could be helpful

[Einherjar]

I'm going by my own experiences here. Yes, the Umineko fan-translations are great... but they COULD be better. Basically, if I feel *I* could do a better job translating something, then I'm pretty sure Atlus could as well. And if I were willing to put the time and effort into translating Umineko, I am 100% confident that I could personally do a better job than the people who are translating it now. (No offense intended, if you guys are reading this - the fact that you're WILLING to translate so much material, and that you're able to get it done so quickly, already puts you WELL ahead of me in terms of pure devotion to your work!)

And all you really need to know to translate Umineko IS Umineko. I guess it'd help to also be familiar with Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, but even that isn't required - as long as you've read all the visual novels for Umineko, you could easily create a top-quality localization that's FAR AND AWAY better than the existing fan-translation.

-Tom

But most fan translations are done by one person, it keeps things very consistent. If you think you can keep up the quality like you have said, then good for you. I guess for Umineko it doesn't really matter, but for some other ones like typemoon things, oh yeah, it's important.

Anyways, I'm curious as to what you are unsatisfied with. Is it the terminologies or the grammar/spelling mistake, or simply not capturing the character. Not all Atlus translation are that great too, you know.

But my opinion won't change. Localization can only go so far when you're not a fan. The devotion and knowledge are needed to make a work better. I mean, you don't want to have a bunch of well-received translators who never touched lord of the rings the first two books and straight to the return of the king ,and only read the book through once to translate the book, would you? I personally find it difficult that Atlus staff would have the time and patience to read through something multiple times, perhaps half a dozen or more, just to translate something. I would be impressed if they do though.

[wyrdwad]

My issue is just with the flat phrasing in the fan-translations. Every line is literally just translated from the Japanese, and presented exactly as-is. Nothing is reworded to sound more natural in English, and no distinct speech patterns are kept or approximated.

Basically, if I can read something that was translated from Japanese to English, and tell you EXACTLY what the original Japanese line was, solely based on its English interpretation, then the translator didn't do a very good job of "naturalizing" the dialogue. Japanese and English are two VERY different languages, and a good rule of thumb for any quality J-E or E-J translator is that your translation should NOT mimic the original line. It's important to translate the ideas and feelings behind each line, NOT the exact words. Otherwise, the audience will feel as if they're reading a translation, when you want them to feel as if they're reading the original dialogue, with all its nuances and subtleties.

Localization is a skill, and it's a tough one to master. I feel I've gotten pretty good at it over the years, but even I have a lot to learn yet.

And to specifically address some of your points:

But my opinion won't change. Localization can only go so far when you're not a fan.

I completely agree with this. All good localization should be done by fans of the original work. If you're not a fan, you have no business working on that particular game, as far as I'm concerned.

The devotion and knowledge are needed to make a work better. I mean, you don't want to have a bunch of well-received translators who never touched lord of the rings the first two books and straight to the return of the king ,and only read the book through once to translate the book, would you?

No, but I think if you've read through all three books once, and you "get" them, and enjoy them, that's all you really need to deliver a good localization. You don't need to read through them multiple times - you just need to read through them until you UNDERSTAND them. And to be fair, the Umineko fan-translators are NOT really qualified to translate the visual novels yet anyway, since they're not complete. In order to deliver the best possible translation, they honestly should've waited until Ryukishi07 finished every last chapter of Umineko Chiru, so that they could take in the series as a whole and solve every last mystery before even the first line was translated.

As it is, I GUARANTEE you there will end up being a mystery somewhere in Umineko that's translated just SLIGHTLY off from what was originally intended, making it impossible to solve in English. Guaranteed! With something as convoluted as Umineko, the likelihood that the English translators will get everything exactly right despite translating each novel as it's released is ASTRONOMICALLY low.

I personally find it difficult that Atlus staff would have the time and patience to read through something multiple times, perhaps half a dozen or more, just to translate something. I would be impressed if they do though.

I'm betting they do, honestly. The quality of Atlus' translations is absolutely top-notch these days. I'm quite convinced that the Atlus staffers MUST be big fans of each and every game they work on anymore.

-Tom

[Ephidel]

Working from what you've said there (and agreeing, even) I do also think thats probably why the Umineko translations haven't been 'naturalised' though. Because they don't yet know how things will turn out, they can't afford to stray too far from any of the original lines in case they introduce further error.
Witch Hunt's translation as it stands at the moment is quite good, and functional. I can't comment on the accuracy of the translation, but taking it as is, it can be rather awkward (although their rework of the first game translation may have made some improvement to that section at least. I haven't 'retried' it yet).
I'm very glad they are translating it though, or the game would mean rather little to me, and probably wouldn't be sitting on my shelf right now ^^

With regards to the Future Diary game though, I can't really comment. Having not yet read the manga (although it is on my list to check out), I don't really have much feeling for the series one way or another at this stage.
I'm not sure how likely vn translations are for any company though, although I would like to see more of them in general. To set precedent for others I have more interest in ;)

[Einherjar]

I think we've come close to agreement here, but still a few things I'd like to comment:

No, but I think if you've read through all three books once, and you "get" them, and enjoy them, that's all you really need to deliver a good localization.

Even book reviewers has to read more than once, especially controversial ones, like catcher in the rye. Not saying translators must understand as much, but you can't fully understand a book if you don't read it through many times. Even when you're analyzing the book or writing some kind of report you should read it twice, at least. And multiple translators is a no go, really.


You don't need to read through them multiple times - you just need to read through them until you UNDERSTAND them. And to be fair, the Umineko fan-translators are NOT really qualified to translate the visual novels yet anyway, since they're not complete. In order to deliver the best possible translation, they honestly should've waited until Ryukishi07 finished every last chapter of Umineko Chiru, so that they could take in the series as a whole and solve every last mystery before even the first line was translated.


I'm not saying that. When I was talking about the team I was referring to their Higurashi work mostly, but you're right.


I'm betting they do, honestly. The quality of Atlus' translations is absolutely top-notch these days. I'm quite convinced that the Atlus staffers MUST be big fans of each and every game they work on anymore.
-Tom

Then, we both agree on that, fan > localization (even if professional), and fan + localization > fans, which is what I've said last few posts. I still don't think any company is going to surpass Takajun in type-moon material through, considering it's translated only by him, a well-received translator, and that it took him years to finish.

[wyrdwad]

I'm very glad they are translating it though, or the game would mean rather little to me, and probably wouldn't be sitting on my shelf right now ^^

I'll toast to that. (:

-Tom