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View Full Version : [Oracle of Maiya] Questions about Ailments (+bosses)?


Cloud737
01-10-2010, 04:41 PM
This would really help me with my Oracle of Maiya (http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5159) (a Persona fusion helper program) project, so please try and put a little effort and read this post and write an answer if you have one.

I want to know which ailments work on bosses, especially if Rage and Charm work on them since it makes them lose control of themselves.

I'd also like to know how many turns each ailment lasts if not cured.

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I'm trying to organize/rank each ailment by it's severity, which is a pretty tricky work as I'd have to consider it's effects both as favorable and unfavorable to the player. The reason I want this is because I want to do "skill rating" and ranking fields for each skill based on it's multitude of properties. The reason I need that last one is because I'm also planning on doing "Persona rating" and ranking fields for each Persona based on stats, skills and elemental affinity ratings, but that's for another time (though I'd have to prepare).

The current order based on severity of ailments I'm proposing is (in ascending order):
Freeze
Shock
Distress
Poison
Rage
Panic
Fear
Charm
Instant Death (added by me)

Reasons:
Poison > Distress: Poison causes damage in addition to what the other party does (and finishes the enemy in 10 turns max), while Distress just adds more damage + increases chance of critical hit
Rage > Poison: Rage makes the character not use spells, which are deadlier than normal attacks, even if doubled in damage, plus makes it more vulnerable
Panic > Rage: Panic makes the character not use spells just like Rage, but doesn't double physical damage as well as may make the character lose a turn trying to use spells
Fear > Panic: Character may skip turn + hit rate decreased = almost same effect as Panic but also applies to intended physical attacks
Charm > Rest: Character is working for the other party. Potential damage to own party increased greatly (double damage: healing enemies as well as attacking allies; enemies "gain" a member while you "lose" one; like a great quote I heard recently about an economist saying: "the difference between one dollar given and one dollar taken is two dollars")
Instant Death: Finishes the battle quickly. Enemies have no chance of recovery.

If you think the order should be different, please state what order you think is better and the reason for it (why some skills beat others compared to my order).

The (intentional?) ailment severity order inferred from their rankings (both for single enemy and multiple enemies; no conflicts, one ambiguity):
Freeze
Shock
Distress
Poison
Rage
Charm
Panic
Fear
Instant Death

Freeze, Shock and Instant Death are added by me, and I don't think anyone has any disagreements on their placement. The ambiguity is between Rage and Charm, which have the same ranks for the one and all enemies varieties, respectively. I placed them accordingly based on my reasoning above, and I don't think anyone has any disagreements.
As you might have noticed, I disagree with some of their rankings (if they are correct according to Arthellinus' guide, otherwise let me know), reasons above.

For those curious, yes, I did use the inferred rankings as a helping base for developing my reasons (and also had an influence in getting me to think more carefully about the parts I disagreed with).

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In case you're wondering how the project is doing, it's going really great. I've almost finished v1.5, and you can expect a February release that will have triangle spread fusions and Persona registering to compendium. All fusion combinations will be taken from the Compendium, thus personalized (I'll add option of selecting which lists to take Personas from later).

Oh yeah, and I'll also use this title tag from now on to post anything related to my project, so keep an eye out for it! :D

Symphonia
02-05-2010, 01:24 AM
Hmm...Judging from your side of thought, I thought Rage = Charm

Rage: Character will not miss the turn but will be unable to be controlled, as well tactics won't work. It doubles the physical damage but will decrease half of defense, which make character vulnerable. Also, the raged character will attack twice.

Charm: Character won't miss the turn, but unable to be controlled, tactics won't work. To attack allies, the character will used the equipped weapon and will side by the enemy if the persona equipped has healing magic (e.g : Media, Mediarama, Mediarahan, etc.) It takes a turn and will have to wait until the next turn to take action agan.

It's equal, if you see the minus and the plus.
I hope this help.

Cloud737
02-05-2010, 04:17 AM
Thanks for replying! :)
I never thought I would ever get a reply. Ironically, I just mentioned this yesterday to a friend as well. :P

I see where you're getting, but I still see Charm as better than Rage.
Let's put this into a nicer layout to see it more clearly.

Rage:
(+) Character loses control of itself
(+) Character will only attack with it's weapon
(+) Character's defense is halved
(-) Character has double attack power/damage
(-) Character acts twice per turn

Charm:
(+) Character loses control of itself
(+) Character will heal your party and attack the enemy (poses absolutely no danger to you and actually helps you)
(+) Character will use anything in it's arsenal

So basically Charm has two pluses and no minuses (as opposed to Rage), and qualitatively, the pluses are either the same (first one) or better than Rage.
As a practical example, imagine battling Nyx and taking quite a good amount of damage, then Yukari gets charmed and casts Mediarahan on it, basically making all your effort useless, as well as losing SP and maybe even doing damage to the party. If she'd only be raged, she would just attack twice per turn with double attack power and probably just die shortly after that (which is not much of a problem). I would prefer Rage in this case, and I'm sure the situation stays the same for enemies.

What I'm also curious is if the charmed character will only attack with it's weapon, like you said. I think I remember my charmed allies using skills targeting my party's weaknesses before, not really sure. Are you sure it will only attack with it's weapon?

Symphonia
02-08-2010, 02:37 AM
Well, it's my case. Yukari or Koromaru for example, they attack the Protagonist or other allies with equipped weapon. They never attack with persona equipped.
If the enemy is raged, then it's our luck. But if the character on our arsenal is raged, then it's a bad luck.
To be honest, you can use rage for your own advantage.
Well, I can't say much. Hope this can help.

Cloud737
02-08-2010, 05:20 AM
Hmm, I see. I guess I should test this out more on my end to be sure.

Oh, it was of use, be sure of that. I'm actually thinking you may be right, since, like I said, there is an ambiguity exactly between Rage and Charm (both of their single and multiple target inflict skills have the same rank). I didn't think it may be because they were considered equal...

Well, I'll check it out more on my end when the time comes.
Thank you very much! :D

Symphonia
02-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Your welcome and I'm glad I can be a help.
If you want me to help you in your project, don't hesitate to send me a PM.

Cloud737
02-09-2010, 03:33 AM
Haha, thank you very very much for your offer as well. ^_^
I'll be sure to call when I need help, thanks! :D

Symphonia
02-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Oh yeah, I figured something out again.
This time it's about how long each ailments lasts

Freeze & Shock: No turn (once the character who got shocked/froze, he/she will return to normal once it's their turns)

Panic: 3 turns
Rage: 3 turns (if your character doesn't die)
Charm: 4 turns
Fear: 3 turns (in normal battle, it lasts 3 turns if your character don't escape)
Distress: 3 turns
Poison: 4 turns/3 (I forget)

What else I left here...
I don't properly order it, so please forgive me.
When I'm figuring anything out, I'll tell you.

Cloud737
02-26-2010, 03:47 AM
Wow, thank you very, very much! :D
You really like contributing, don't ya? :D

I'll put this info in my database files. It's nice to tell the player how long to expect the effect to last. :)
The only thing to test out for P3 is if Poison lasts 3 or 4 turns (once I get to actually display the ailments in my program), but that'll be a piece of cake.
Don't worry, I don't need these ordered, it was merely to list each ailment's duration for the player.

Again, thank you very, very much! :D

Symphonia
02-27-2010, 11:35 PM
You really like contributing, don't ya?
Hahaha. Kinda of it, I'm just like helping other people and I enjoyed this project.
Okay, thanks.
Gotta run some tests on my game...To see how long Poison lasts.

Symphonia
03-12-2010, 01:51 AM
The only thing,
I encounter some problems when I'm running Oracle of Maiya ver. 1.0 on my computer. What is it?
The program stops responding along with another program. Is that some kind of bug? O_o
Hope to fix this soon and tell me if you need help.

Cloud737
03-12-2010, 01:58 AM
Haha, yeah, I forgot to mention it has a horrible bug. Since no one seemed to complain (probably because few checked out the program), I just went on with releasing the bugfix along with other features planned in the next version instead of the bugfix alone.

You can find the latest beta here (http://www.filefront.com/15354029/Oracle-of-Maiya-v1.5-Beta.rar/). The bug is long fixed (had to rewrite most of the code anyway) and even has some additional features working compared to v1.0. Knock yourself out! :P

Symphonia
03-12-2010, 02:10 AM
Hey, nice
This one works well on my computer.
Thanks for your effort XD

Cloud737
03-12-2010, 02:16 AM
Haha, you don't have to thank me. It was really no effort, that file was uploaded long ago. :P

PS: I'm hoping to release the final v1.3 build soon, hopefully in two weeks.

Symphonia
03-12-2010, 02:25 AM
Tell me if you need anything XD

Cloud737
03-12-2010, 02:42 AM
Haha, will do!

Right now, I only need a confirmation on how long Poison lasts to close the book on Persona 3 ailments, if it's not much trouble.

Symphonia
03-12-2010, 02:49 AM
3 turns, to be exact and drains 5% of HP each turns.
Hope this can help XD

Cloud737
03-12-2010, 04:56 AM
Thank you very much, that was of much help! :D Some guides said it drained 10% each turn (which is pretty high), so kudos for checking that too (even though I forgot to mention that).

Symphonia
03-26-2010, 01:06 AM
Your welcome and I'm glad I can be a help.
Need anything else? XD