Shiren Previews!

[Rednusander]

The fine folks of the press are starting to roll out some of their previews for Shiren the Wanderer, so I figured I'd bring them to your attention. If you find any, feel free to post 'em, and I'll continue to update this post as they appear.

Kotaku
http://kotaku.com/5429132/shiren-the-wanderer-dont-call-it-a-roguelike

4 Color Rebellion
http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2009/12/14/4cr-preview-shiren-the-wanderer-wii/

Gamezone
http://www.gamezone.com/news/12_10_09_04_30PM.htm

RPGamer
http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2009/121709a.html

GamersDailyNews
http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-2255-Shiren-the-Wanderer-Preview-Wii.html

Destructoid:
http://www.destructoid.com/preview-shiren-the-wanderer-158409.phtml

BitMob:
http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/shiren-the-wanderer-a-roguelike-for-the-uninitiated.html

[jeffx]

Cannot freaking wait.

Again, I feel the need to report that amazon.CA has Shiren at 50$ while the MSRP is 40$. The kicker is that they have EVERY OTHER UPCOMING ATLUS TITLE at parity with the US prices listed on amazon.com.

Really hope someone can do something about this, or at least provide us with an explanation.

[Zoltor]

Awesome, I was hoping we would beable to use the Classic Controller for this game.

Sounds good, and all, but I found it odd that when talking about the replay aspect, not even one of those reviewers listed the 1,000 floor dungeon of insanity(yea, I already gave it a name, and the game Isn't even out yet). How can you not mention the biggest dungeon ever made in the genre?

PS. ATLUS, can you make the name of the 1,000 floor dungeon, "Dungeon of Insanity" ?

[Rednusander]

Awesome, I was hoping we would beable to use the Classic Controller for this game.

Sounds good, and all, but I found it odd that when talking about the replay aspect, not even one of those reviewers listed the 1,000 floor dungeon of insanity(yea, I already gave it a name, and the game Isn't even out yet). How can you not mentions the biggest dungeon ever made in the genre?

PS. ATLUS, can you make the name of the 1,000 floor dungeon, "Dungeon of Insanity" ?

Sorry, it's already the Millennium Dungeon, but you're welcome to call it whatever you want. =)

[Zoltor]

Awesome, I was hoping we would beable to use the Classic Controller for this game.

Sounds good, and all, but I found it odd that when talking about the replay aspect, not even one of those reviewers listed the 1,000 floor dungeon of insanity(yea, I already gave it a name, and the game Isn't even out yet). How can you not mentions the biggest dungeon ever made in the genre?

PS. ATLUS, can you make the name of the 1,000 floor dungeon, "Dungeon of Insanity" ?

Sorry, it's already the Millennium Dungeon, but you're welcome to call it whatever you want. =)

Sigh, I was hoping you guys would change the name(there's still plenty of time for such a monor change), but yea lol, that's what I'm gonna be calling it :)

[Rednusander]

Kotaku:

http://kotaku.com/5429132/shiren-the-wanderer-dont-call-it-a-roguelike

[jeffx]

Kotaku:

http://kotaku.com/5429132/shiren-the-wanderer-dont-call-it-a-roguelike

Strikes me as odd.

[Zoltor]

Kotaku:

http://kotaku.com/5429132/shiren-the-wanderer-dont-call-it-a-roguelike

Cool, and yea that ferret pet is cute(do furrets in Japan actually look like that lol, because if they do, I want one). How about this, with every pre-order you get a real ferret as a bonus lol?

However all these reviewers are wrong in saying, It's not a Roguelike game, these games are Roguelikes for more then one reason(more then just because the difficulty).

Infact technically, difficulty has nothing to do with it being a Roguelike, It's just a side effect cuased by the vast amount of item+ the very wide randomizations of basically everything.

Traditional Dungeon Crawler RPGs are super hard as well, if not much harder(and that's with very little randomization). The reason why games like Shiren, Torneko, and such are called Roguelike, is due to the very unauthodoxed style, compared to traditional dungeon crawlers(Wizardry, Swords & Serpents, The Dark Spire, exc). First It's anime based(not much of a surprise, since everything in modern day Japan is based on anime), 2nd It's not first person, and thirdly the entire eploration concept is different(in tradition dungeon crawlers treasure just laying on the ground is rare, when there is treasure on the gound, you generally have to use a search function to actually find it. In traditional dungeon crawlers, almost all the items are found by way of event/npcs or monster drops, where in Roguelikes nearly all the items are found just laying on the ground for all to see, plus in randomly generated shops, that some times appear in the dungeon.

As you can see, technically both fit the guide lines of being dungeon crawler RPGs(they are both true RPGs, aka turn based, and for the most part, the games play out entirely in dungeons, thus= Dungeon Crawler/RPG.

Rogue refers to it going outside the norm(dungeon crawlers were always hard, in both forms), setting its self apart from what is considered a Dungeon Crawler.

Lol if anything, it having a easy mode, makes it more of a Roguelike(Note: I will be playing on normal, which is still easier then what I'm used to, but with a 1,000 floor dungeon lol, that maybe a good thing).

[eelektrik]

Rogue refers to it going outside the norm(dungeon crawlers were always hard, in both forms), setting its self apart from what is considered a Dungeon Crawler.


Actually Roguelikes are named after the game Rogue, a top down superhard turn-based dungeon crawler with random loot and random dungeons. So they are a pretty well defined genre in that they are anything like Rogue. Generally the difficulty is held to be one of the mainstays of genre and making them too easy simply disappoints fans of a niche genre instead of attracting new fans to the genre.

Thats my biggest complaint with many of the previews, talking about making it easier and more accessible, when thats not what I am looking for. I want a preview of Shiren from an actual roguelike fan explaining it. I hope Normal mode is closer to Shiren DS than they are making it out to be.

[Rednusander]

I hope Normal mode is closer to Shiren DS than they are making it out to be.

Normal mode is as close to the true Shiren experience as you can get. You won't lose your levels like Shiren DS, but any death will take you back to square 1, inventory wise.

Anyway...

Destructoid: http://www.destructoid.com/preview-shiren-the-wanderer-158409.phtml

BitMob: http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/shiren-the-wanderer-a-roguelike-for-the-uninitiated.html

[LordGek]

Rogue refers to it going outside the norm(dungeon crawlers were always hard, in both forms), setting its self apart from what is considered a Dungeon Crawler.


Actually Roguelikes are named after the game Rogue, a top down superhard turn-based dungeon crawler with random loot and random dungeons. So they are a pretty well defined genre in that they are anything like Rogue. Generally the difficulty is held to be one of the mainstays of genre and making them too easy simply disappoints fans of a niche genre instead of attracting new fans to the genre.

Thats my biggest complaint with many of the previews, talking about making it easier and more accessible, when thats not what I am looking for. I want a preview of Shiren from an actual roguelike fan explaining it. I hope Normal mode is closer to Shiren DS than they are making it out to be.

The level permanence of the main game seems like a weak compromise to draw in more folk but, fortunately, there are SEVERAL post main story dungeons that have your level reset to 1 each time you enter them!

[MoogleGunner]

Reading the Kotaku preview I feel less inclined to buy the game. The constant insistence that "roguelike" is a pejorative term is grating. I'm still planning on getting it, but I'm not comfortable with the marketing, I mean really "We don't want to use the term 'roguelike'"?

[Rednusander]

Reading the Kotaku preview I feel less inclined to buy the game. The constant insistence that "roguelike" is a pejorative term is grating. I'm still planning on getting it, but I'm not comfortable with the marketing, I mean really "We don't want to use the term 'roguelike'"?

I think all we're trying to get at is that calling it a rouge-like will instantly turn some people away, believing the game to be too hardcore for them. It's not like we're pointing to a black dog and saying it's not black, we're just trying to get as many people to see Shiren for what it is - a good game. And sometimes that involves not using a word could make them instantly write it off. You've gotta consider the marketing of a game from all angles.

[Zoltor]

Reading the Kotaku preview I feel less inclined to buy the game. The constant insistence that "roguelike" is a pejorative term is grating. I'm still planning on getting it, but I'm not comfortable with the marketing, I mean really "We don't want to use the term 'roguelike'"?

I think all we're trying to get at is that calling it a rouge-like will instantly turn some people away, believing the game to be too hardcore for them. It's not like we're pointing to a black dog and saying it's not black, we're just trying to get as many people to see Shiren for what it is - a good game. And sometimes that involves not using a word could make them instantly write it off. You've gotta consider the marketing of a game from all angles.

Yea, but you should've went about it another way, and it actually is like pointing at a black dog, then saying It's not black.

Saying It's not a Roguelike, Isn't even politically correct. Wizardry 5 is technically slightly more forgiving then the previous Wizardry games, so I guess it Isn't a Dungeon Crawler/RPG then?

Also the difficulty Isn't even the defining aspect of the Roguelike genre, the style/design of the gameplay is, difficulty is a side effect cuased by a combination of systems.

PS. In sort ATLUS should have never made such a comment, you should've just emphasized the fact there is a easy mode, in hopes of drawing more people to the game.

[LordFu]

I bought a Wii just for this game. Thanks Atlus!

[Atlus Frog]

Guys, cut Atlus some slack. They are porting Shiren and EVERYONE else turned it down. I begged six companies including Atlus to port this and they are the only ones with the balls to do it! Every other company told me "We just can't do it. It's financial suicide. Rogulikes are a no-no!"

I have infinite respect for Atlus because of this very game. In fact I joined this site to petition it!

[Sseklebeast]

Wow, Swords & Serpents brings back some painful memories. :o Sorry, I just wanted to say that... er GO Atlus!

[MoogleGunner]

Guys, cut Atlus some slack. They are porting Shiren and EVERYONE else turned it down. I begged six companies including Atlus to port this and they are the only ones with the balls to do it! Every other company told me "We just can't do it. It's financial suicide. Rogulikes are a no-no!"

I have infinite respect for Atlus because of this very game. In fact I joined this site to petition it!

Look, I'm sorry but that's not really a reasonable argument. I'm personally letting it go after 1 post (or I was, until now) because, honestly, I have enough faith in Atlus to assume that they don't actually have a company policy that roguelike is a pejorative term. But the fact of the matter is that it's not a good form of marketing to do that. I have a lot of friends who play rogue likes, one of my friends has ascended in nethack, 3 times, another has done considerable work on planning his own roguelike, a third has probably played every roguelike on roguebasin. All of them more or less approve of Shiren DS.

Personally, I love them, I love them irrationally much. I bought Torchlight solely because it had procedurally generated content. I have ascended on Shiren's main quest (okay, not that big a deal, but I was proud of it). I've started work on a roguelike, and plan on participating in the 7 day roguelike.

You may be saying "Well what's your point, other than bragging about how much you and your friends love this random sub-genre"? The point is this, I'm the only one who has any respect for console roguelikes. Most of them have the vaguest respect for the original Shiren because it's possible to effectively play it as a regular roguelike. Chocobo's Dungeon on the Wii is refered to as "Baby's First Roguelike" for having similar mechanics as to what has been advertised as the selling points of Shiren 3. I'm going to get it, mainly out of hope that it'll be as good as Shiren DS, but my friends, and I'm sure many other people who ordinarily love roguelikes are uninterested in the game largely because all the things they like about roguelikes are, apparently, not there.

Sure, people who like roguelikes are a periphery demographic, but I don't think it says good things when a demographic which is drastically predisposed to like a game is being turned off by the marketing, and considering that I want this game to succeed I think that cutting Atlus slack in this department just because not many people localize these kinds of games would be doing them a disservice. It's not like we're not going to buy the game because of the marketing, we're suggesting that the current marketing direction isn't ideal.