Problem with people quiting game during fight when they are about to die.

[Neofire]

This is annoying and on top of cheating me out of my souls(and others that don not quit when they are about to win or lose). Does anyone know if From Software is working on a patch to prevent(or even penalize)people who uses this exploit?

[Karkarov]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

[Leventa]

I hate rage quitters.

[Neofire]

Ah okay, good i have had several people do it to me.

[Pathard]

Some guy that quit on me sent me a PSN Message a few minutes after.. his file was corrupt and he was just blaming me for it. lol

[Buttons]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

Kinda hard to write a patch that prevents disconnecting from PSN.

If you disconnect from PSN, the game will end safely. Then, you can reload and you will be in the same spot, with the same enemies dead as before.

[jedbeetle]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

Kinda hard to write a patch that prevents disconnecting from PSN.

If you disconnect from PSN, the game will end safely. Then, you can reload and you will be in the same spot, with the same enemies dead as before.

Yeah. And, unfortunately, it should be like this, in case someone has a genuine network issue.
*grumble grumble*

[Buttons]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

Kinda hard to write a patch that prevents disconnecting from PSN.

If you disconnect from PSN, the game will end safely. Then, you can reload and you will be in the same spot, with the same enemies dead as before.

Yeah. And, unfortunately, it should be like this, in case someone has a genuine network issue.
*grumble grumble*

We need to make it known to quitters that they can play offline. Most people who quit don't want to be invaded, and they are playing alone. So they should be offline. Many people don't know that's even an option I suspect.

Don't send inflammatory messages, but perhaps we should tell people that they can play offline in these circumstances.

[Jaikaro]

Like Karkarov said, sometimes your game decides it wants to save when you die. One day, they're gonna rage quit, and all their game data will be corrupted. You can just lol on the inside every time someone does that.

And anyway, I usually don't get a whole lot of souls from killing people in PvP. The most I've gotten I think is around 20k from some heavy-armory-meat-cleaver guy.

[obie191970]

We need to make it known to quitters that they can play offline. Most people who quit don't want to be invaded, and they are playing alone. So they should be offline. Many people don't know that's even an option I suspect.

Don't send inflammatory messages, but perhaps we should tell people that they can play offline in these circumstances.

There is really no excuse regardless - This game was designed for you to die. People shouldn't have to play offline - Especially for playing through the game the first time, playing online is very beneficial. But, they can play in Soul Form and not worry about invasions.

[monster528]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

well i know what im going to stop doing...lmao i think ill take my deaths from now on...too risky.

people kept doing it to me, so i figured why not, well if it really can corrupt your save thanks for the warning guys, i think im just gonna take my deaths from now on

[Luminous_Reaver]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

well i know what im going to stop doing...lmao i think ill take my deaths from now on...too risky.

people kept doing it to me, so i figured why not, well if it really can corrupt your save thanks for the warning guys, i think im just gonna take my deaths from now on

No, no, by all means. Continue. I think you should be safe as long as you're disconnecting and not shutting off your PS3. Keep going. There's no harm in it! There couldn't possibly be!

...Are you seriously saying you're going to stop cheating just because there might be consequences? Is that really all that's stopping you? That's just silly! Chivalry is for losers! Real kids play with their games off!

No, I'm kidding, you could seriously lose your data. Never cheat again.

[artemis]

Should add a check then that if they willingly quit the game, count it as a death. Then, send a signal to explode your PS3.

[joest01]

They had a problem like this in UFC Undisputed, where people would quit if they were losing. Here is what they did:


Online matches will better support issues with users who leave a match. The game will now detect users who disconnect and will assign a “Loss,” as well as a “Did Not Finish (DNF),” to that player. The DNF is only assigned to the player who executes the disconnection. The DNF rate will be displayed on the fighter selection screen of the “Online Ranked Match.” When disconnected, the “Winning Streak” is also reset to zero.

[Luminous_Reaver]

Should add a check then that if they willingly quit the game, count it as a death. Then, send a signal to explode your PS3.

It would be the greatest application of the Cell since...well, since Demon's Souls.

[monster528]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

well i know what im going to stop doing...lmao i think ill take my deaths from now on...too risky.

people kept doing it to me, so i figured why not, well if it really can corrupt your save thanks for the warning guys, i think im just gonna take my deaths from now on

No, no, by all means. Continue. I think you should be safe as long as you're disconnecting and not shutting off your PS3. Keep going. There's no harm in it! There couldn't possibly be!

...Are you seriously saying you're going to stop cheating just because there might be consequences? Is that really all that's stopping you? That's just silly! Chivalry is for losers! Real kids play with their games off!

No, I'm kidding, you could seriously lose your data. Never cheat again.

i think your being sarcastic....naaa couldnt be...thats rediculous

[HijiriOni]

When I wanna play offline all I do is logoff PSN, start up demon's souls, load my game, make sure not to hit "Yes" to connecting to PSN, then after my game is loaded I login to the PSN.

And ta-da, logged in, can't be invaded, my WT doesn't go all wackado, and soul/body form aren't relevant for farming.

But the only good way to rage quit is to rage quit with the PS Button and quit game.

[Balfor]

i had somebody rage quit on me last night. i invaded his 1-3, fought him and a blue in a 2v1. i lived through two firestorms(one due to rolling at the caster, one due to being backstabbed as it went off, and as we all know, you take no damage from any source other than the backstab until it is over). they weren't doing much damage to me due to warding. i ended up running around a corner after 5min to heal myself, they followed and ran right into two mobs. one a soldier with a spear, the other, a soldier with a crossbow. as they turned to kill those, i recast cursed weapon, backstabbed the blue, 1 shot killing him(thank you for the souls mr blue). by that point the host had killed both mobs so he and i went at it again and i killed him. suddenly i'm back in my game with a message that the host had disconected. being pissed off i sent the host an angry message. he replied with a what are you talking about message. it was in broken english. i took the time to send a detailed message about what he did and why it was wrong to which the guy replied that he would never do it during pvp again, and that he was worried about his save data being corrupted.

lets stop people from being ignorant one person at a time(after we kill them of course).

[DeBurgo]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

Kinda hard to write a patch that prevents disconnecting from PSN.

If you disconnect from PSN, the game will end safely. Then, you can reload and you will be in the same spot, with the same enemies dead as before.
I've re-read Sony's PSN TOS and it seems like this is a perfectly valid reason for reporting PSN members. So, do that next time it happens to you. That's what I plan to do. There might not be any action but at least you might feel a bit better :)

[jedbeetle]

They already do. When you die it autosaves. Keep doing it sooner or later you will corrupt your save data and well.... lets just say you will wish you took the death.

Kinda hard to write a patch that prevents disconnecting from PSN.

If you disconnect from PSN, the game will end safely. Then, you can reload and you will be in the same spot, with the same enemies dead as before.
I've re-read Sony's PSN TOS and it seems like this is a perfectly valid reason for reporting PSN members. So, do that next time it happens to you. That's what I plan to do. There might not be any action but at least you might feel a bit better :)
Hey that's a fantastic idea! I experience like 5-10 rage-quits per extended gaming session. It's completely antithetical to the spirit of this game. I prefer angry messages. I got one that said "Biggest Douch of the Year award." You know, that really made me feel good.

[renankvieira]

Anyone who played Ultima Online is familiar to this problem.
People that logout anywhere used to take about one minute to disappear. People who logout inside their house disappeared instantly (it was called sfae logout and was used the same coward way it happens in Demon's Souls).

What was made?

Now (the update was a looong time before, actually), when you disconnect, wherever you are, it takes a little time to disappear. It doesn't take a minute, i.e., but just enough for the adversary to kill you while you are still there, as a mortal, coward and standing virtual SPARRING.

And I guess that's the way: If you're playing online, you shouldn't be able to disappear imediatly in the middle of a PVP.

[sacallaco]

I had 2 black phantoms rage quit on me in 1-2. I am tempted to write their names here but that wouldn't be prudent.

[spider-prime]

I've had 5 people quit on me right when I joined their game and I had to go back right away and it made me lose a level cause of it!

[jedbeetle]

I had 2 black phantoms rage quit on me in 1-2. I am tempted to write their names here but that wouldn't be prudent.

On the contrary. I'm going to start a list....

[Grimlorn]

This is becoming a huge problem and needs to be addressed.

[HijiriOni]

All that needs to be address is an "Allow Black Phantoms to Invade" option.

If it's on it's your own fault if you didn't want to fight them, if it's off...well then no one's bitching about being invaded.

That's been my hugest problem with the BP system, and why I stick to soul form. But it really sucks when I can't beat a boss solo because NG+ bosses are ludricous so I go physical form and just entering the damned level has me invaded, ps button quit, load game...allready being invaded as soon as I load the game.

I hate pvp, I won't ever rage quit if I actually start fighting a pvp, but I'm more then happy to rage quit on someone invading me right when they invade me if I didn't want to be invaded. At least the PS Button+Quit game won't corrupt game data

[Grimlorn]

No the game was meant for pvp online. That's the whole point. Otherwise there isn't a good reason to have soul and body forms besides the affect on world tendency. Having another reason in online mode adds to the game. It's not an annoying feature when you can play offline in body form or online in soul form. I beat the game online in soul form. It was a pain in the ass but I did it. It's pretty balanced anyways between body and soul form. Body gets more health but does less damage. Soul less health, but more damage, as long as you can survive a hit from a boss and recover, you're good to go. If for some reason you need to be in body form, then just go into body form before a boss fight and do summons there or fight the boss solo. So many possibilities, it's easy.

The game is pretty easy to beat single player wise. If you want to have an advantage at beating the game with friends, then you also have to risk being invaded.

If you put an option for invasion in there, then 99 percent of people will turn it off.

Only the people ready to be invaded or want to be invaded sitting with their friends will get invaded and they will have an advantage because they will be in body form and in pvp gear.

You probably don't know this, but when you "rage quit" while a BP is zoning in, they lose a soul level for having to zone back to their world. The game makers didn't have to add an online feature, but it adds to the game. They set the online mode up a certain way and you should respect it by playing by the rules.

[HijiriOni]

Why should I respect a system that was poorly designed? If quiting the game causes them to lose a SL that's just another point to the fact that it's poorly designed. Afterall there are plenty of people who have unstable connections, or satelite based internets which become crap with cloudy weather. Those would cause a disconnect from the game in which case an invading BP regardless of whether or not the person being invaded wanted to fight, did fight, and was even winning, would still cause them to lose a SL.

Also those "Bonuses" you mentioned for soul form only apply in WT, in BT you get the opposite. BPs get Bonuses in BT and gimped in WT.

I will concede that as far as multiplayer in a game from FROM software...this is the best designed one they have produced (that i've played). Unfortunately it's multiplayer can't hold a candle to MANY MANY other titles.

[Umbasa]

I can't believe people can do that so casually as if their is nothing wrong with what they're doing.

You can't really stop them either unless FROM designs a way to somehow punish people for excessively ending games improperly. I think the server should hand out day bans or something. It's probably not possible though.

It's just too bad some people think they're special and above the rules that everybody else has to follow.

[Grimlorn]

There is a difference though. This is only my second night as a Black Phantom, but I notice when people disconnect and there is a network issue. When there is a network issue you will be notified it's a network issue, when it's someone hitting the ps button and quitting or whatever they do, it says session failed.

It's not poorly designed. You shouldn't lose a soul level because you're invading someone who's quitting, I agree. That should be fixed, but there should be a punishment for people who quit like that. Like losing their souls to the black phantom instead of a stain or something. Maybe that is extreme but something needs to be done, because I've won 3 or 4 fights where it said session ended instead of you recieved your body back, after killing the person.

If you want the advantage of hints and secrets from other players, blood stains, and the ability to summon other players to help you beat the game, then you're going to have to risk being invaded. It's actually a pretty good system, not great or perfect but good.

My only issue is the lag which is why I joined these forums was because the lag in pvp is horrendous and I think it has to do with cheap servers which is alright if the game is mediocre, but the game is selling out, and better servers need to be in place so I'm not invading and being a second or 2 behind the other player. I have cable btw.

I want to make a thread but can't with more than 5 posts for some reason about it, so people can discuss the subject. Atlus needs to buy some better servers. They have to be making quite a bit of money off this game. It also should be patched again, because there are quite a few bugs in the game that need to be addressed.

[Paddy0524]

I got one that said "Biggest Douch of the Year award." You know, that really made me feel good.

Thanks for that, I had not laughed like that in a while.

[HijiriOni]

Rather then thinking "People should be punished" maybe people...shouldn't be.

Maybe this game should reward people for partaking in pvp...ya know...by being fun.

PvP to me in this game is designed to be annoying, it doesn't help me enjoy the game, it doesn't help me accomplish my goals, and if anything it gets in the way of those goals. It doesn't even make accomplishing those goals with it's added annoyance more rewarding.

But I'm very opposed to most PvP, only games that we're designed explicitly around pvp I find semi-enjoyable. Like Tekken or Warhawk.

But there are lots of people who want to pvp...go bother them, I've got no interest. The game designers could have designed the system to allow the people that actually want to pvp...to pvp against the people who also want to pvp. Rather then force it up someones arse that never wanted it that way.

At least in games 10 years older then Demon's Souls PvP wasn't forced on you, and if you wanted to avoid it you could leave the game, or sit in town, without causing any problems. Personally when it comes to PvP a game like Diablo 2> Demon's Souls.

But FROM has come along...I was excited about AC:For Answer having multiplayer until I found out how awful the multiplayer was. Co-Op is useless and nigh unplayable in it. Versus just had to many people that hacked the game. I've yet to run into people who hacked demon's souls at least.

Of course it all boils down to choice...if I had a choice on invasions I'd love it and I actually would use it...the fact that I have no choice makes me rebel against it and believe it to be a terrible thing. Oh, and it punishes me for trying to enjoy it too. Invade as a BP, die by accidents or tick damage you lose a SL. Game host leaves the game or you leave by white stone, lose a SL. Being a blue phantom helper in a game that gets invaded and getting killed, lose a SL.

I don't mind the idea of punishments for things you get a choice in.

[GuyIncognito]

Oh, and it punishes me for trying to enjoy it too. Invade as a BP, die by accidents or tick damage you lose a SL.

Out of the things you've listed, the one thing that discourages me from being a bp is dot deleveling. Every other weapon causes bleeding...

[Lexin]

You know I wouldn't mind BP except for the fact that most of you will run away into a group of creatures at the slightest hint of defeat so yes I will disconnect and make you lose a SL. If you want a straight up fight I'm in but don't b***h out and run into a group of stuff.

I'm speaking about what I had gone through in this game while some idiot decides to invade my game so you invade me and run away expect to get disconnected on. Now if you don't agree with that then guess what I don't give a f**k I could be that ass who disconnects right as you invade without giving you the chance to fight.

[Wolfram]

Last night I invaded a couple games for the first time. In 3-1 I found another BP somehow but he was afk and I killed him... lol... didn't really know what I was doing. Anyway I ran around and found the player who had an awesomely huge shield maybe the tower shield, and I'm a knight with purple flame shield. Anyway, it was odd he barely fought me. Tried a couple hits but mostly just backpedelled around. He tried summoning someone but I think that bluP d/ced and I was finally able to kill the host after a few minutes of bashing away. It was kinda lame and next time I died I decided to just help someone as a BluP instead of ganking. I do, however, look forward to getting invaded more... It's only happened once and it was fun but I died by an npc which is pretty lame.

Anyway, the way I see it, if you don't want to bring in some bluP and you don't want to fight against BPs... don't play online!!! With bluP you should be able to kill a BP. And of course the other option is to play in soul form which has very minimal negative impacts.

[HijiriOni]

Or ya know...design the system to let the people who actually enjoy invading and being invaded to play together and leave us "hate pvp" types alone. This sounsd a bit more effective wouldn't you think?

[northernogar]

I totally agree with Lexin, the problem i seem to encounter now is a person summons me when i am in phantom form, i figure i help out and collect some souls, and the guy stands there and a bp is right behind me and attacks me when i summon. i stick around and summon again an its the same guy summoning me and same f'n bp attacking me so 3 times a charm same two guys , so you know what .... you wanna play like that then....


hit that button

edit: i have no problem getting killed by invading bp, i will go toe to toe but when guys start doing this crap come 0n

[Wolfram]

I totally agree with Lexin, the problem i seem to encounter now is a person summons me when i am in phantom form, i figure i help out and collect some souls, and the guy stands there and a bp is right behind me and attacks me when i summon. i stick around and summon again an its the same guy summoning me and same f'n bp attacking me so 3 times a charm same two guys , so you know what .... you wanna play like that then....


hit that button

edit: i have no problem getting killed by invading bp, i will go toe to toe but when guys start doing this crap come 0n

Ah that's ####ty. Maybe my location has me in a less populated server or something because I've put about 8hrs/day since Monday with only encountering 1 BP. Maybe people my level just don't pvp much (lvl 42ish). I can certainly understand the annoyance of having constant invasions. If you're in body form tho, you don't lose anything right? As a bluP do you lose your souls?

[Demondays]

I'm a bad loser...

Sometimes when im about to be killed by a bp i will kill myself on purpose by roling of a ledge, usualy i only do this when being killed by firestorm spammers - if im against a melee bp and the fight is good (no run away and heal or run behind loads of enemys and camp like a coward types) I will stay in the fight untill a winner is decided.

Im a bad loser but i would never pull the plug on the game ( well rolling of the ledge is kinda the same, but not as bad :D) just to avoid defeat, I heard it breaks the game saves - unlucky guys who have been doing this.

[Umbasa]

You do have a choice when it comes to PVP. It's called playing offline or staying in soul form. If you're disconnecting when a BP joins you're the one who's ruining someone else's enjoyment of the game, because you're the one who isn't following the rules, so you're the one who deserves to be punished. If you don't like the way the game works then go play Diablo or something.

And black phantoms hiding in a crowd of enemies is a perfectly valid strategy for them. Next time they do that why don't you take the opportunity to summon some blue phantoms.

[Abraxes]

We need to make it known to quitters that they can play offline. Most people who quit don't want to be invaded, and they are playing alone. So they should be offline. Many people don't know that's even an option I suspect.

Don't send inflammatory messages, but perhaps we should tell people that they can play offline in these circumstances.

There is really no excuse regardless - This game was designed for you to die. People shouldn't have to play offline - Especially for playing through the game the first time, playing online is very beneficial. But, they can play in Soul Form and not worry about invasions.

they probably think that the extra health will make up for lack of knowledge about the enemies they face which is understandable on a first playthrough. also i have had no one rage quit on me but several times i have had people quit the game when i invade so i just look for another to invade and wouldn't you know it i get the same person, it's good for a laugh at any rate.

[Demondays]

I like fighting 1 on 1 in a bp fight - so i dont summon anyone when i get invaded.

A straight simple melee fight between 2 people is my thing, if its not that then i get pissed off (im very stubborn).

[northernogar]

so i guess it's safe to say someone summoning you under false pretence is "ruining" the game and ya i was losing souls everytime the idiot killed me.
i am all for the pvp i will fight win or lose , its just annoying when you die and you see the summoner and the bp walk off into the sunset together f'n p!@#$y's

[Lady_Kitsu]

I have no problems with black phantoms. Honestly I have made friends with some of them as well as some of the people I invaded as a black phantom.

I do not wish for an option to turn off black phantom invades as there are plenty of ways to avoid black phantoms (i.e play in soul form or offline.)

However! I wish there was a cool down time. I was playing 1-3 last night on NG+ with a friend as he was going to help me. We killed the first black phantom. However right after another one came. One after another after another they came. Now we killed them all and my friend and I got the job done we wanted and I left to the nexus but it was just annoying. A job that would have taken a few moments took about twenty minutes as we had to slay so many invaders. I wish that if you kill a black phantom you get a minute or two free of invasion.

[northernogar]

It's just a game i enjoy playing , really i 'm not going to lose sleep, the concept of the bp being able to invade is very cool. I think it breaks up the " die and start all over" addiction i have

[Myrkan]

Unfortunately it's multiplayer can't hold a candle to MANY MANY other titles.

Those of us that have played Fable 2 will disagree with that. Seeing as that is pretty much the only single player RPG, that I am aware of, with an option of multiplayer(in Fable 2's case it is for helping, and it doesn't even do that well).


PvP to me in this game is designed to be annoying, it doesn't help me enjoy the game, it doesn't help me accomplish my goals, and if anything it gets in the way of those goals. It doesn't even make accomplishing those goals with it's added annoyance more rewarding.

Annoying? I suppose if you're not in body formed,totally overpowered, and farming black phantoms for 50k-150k souls on each kill it is annoying. As for getting in the way of goals, I don't see that happening if your goal is to farm said black phantoms.

But there are lots of people who want to pvp...go bother them, I've got no interest. The game designers could have designed the system to allow the people that actually want to pvp...to pvp against the people who also want to pvp. Rather then force it up someones arse that never wanted it that way.

Red soul signs!!!!!

At least in games 10 years older then Demon's Souls PvP wasn't forced on you, and if you wanted to avoid it you could leave the game, or sit in town, without causing any problems. Personally when it comes to PvP a game like Diablo 2> Demon's Souls.

PC game versus a console game, both games being set up entirely different...bad comparison my friend.

I'm a bad loser...

Sometimes when im about to be killed by a bp i will kill myself on purpose by roling of a ledge, usualy i only do this when being killed by firestorm spammers - if im against a melee bp and the fight is good (no run away and heal or run behind loads of enemys and camp like a coward types) I will stay in the fight untill a winner is decided.

As I have mentioned before. Firestorm has a slow cast time, if you are religious in keeping a distance between you and the other player you should be able to get out of range of firestorm before it is cast. At this time you can then pepper the person with ranged attacks or magic while they are in the attack animation. Firestorm also costs 100 mp per casting, unless the person using it has been spamming intelligence the entire game, he/she should only be able to cast it 2 or 3 times before needing to use spice. Take advantage of this, and backstab them when they do. It's just that simple.

[jedbeetle]

You know I wouldn't mind BP except for the fact that most of you will run away into a group of creatures at the slightest hint of defeat so yes I will disconnect and make you lose a SL. If you want a straight up fight I'm in but don't b***h out and run into a group of stuff.

I'm speaking about what I had gone through in this game while some idiot decides to invade my game so you invade me and run away expect to get disconnected on. Now if you don't agree with that then guess what I don't give a f**k I could be that ass who disconnects right as you invade without giving you the chance to fight.

Dude....you're a d*ck. Black Phantoms are at a sever disadvantage in all cases. Running to a group of enemies is an essential strategy for invading, and is intended by the developers.
Don't be a d*ck.

[northernogar]

Sever disadvantage how? at lvl 140 its pretty much a crap shoot who wins, usually its only better players and if they (being the bp) mow me down in 2 or 3 slices , take my life or souls....... dude you deserve it you have obviously put more time than I... and you can always clear the level first as phantom then respawn then = no hiding

[Tyroie]

Black phantoms are at a disadvantage because they have less max health, and the host can summon blue phantoms and outnumber him.

They are at a disadvantage because the black phantom is risking nothing, and the host is risking his life and whatever souls he's collected before the black phantom invaded.

If a black phantom runs and hides from me, I run back to the start of the level and wait for blue phantoms to join up. If the black phantom does not relentlessly assault the host, they're making a big mistake.

[jsbradley7]

Grimlorn, the lag goes both ways (I've been invaded and noticed lag) and it may not be due to the servers but rather a problem with routers and firewalls.

[rion999]

Sever disadvantage how? at lvl 140 its pretty much a crap shoot who wins, usually its only better players and if they (being the bp) mow me down in 2 or 3 slices , take my life or souls....... dude you deserve it you have obviously put more time than I... and you can always clear the level first as phantom then respawn then = no hiding
They have a lower soul level than you, because the game only allows black phantoms on the low end of your soul level range join your game, they have at most 75% hp while you have full, they are by them self while you can have two other people with you, and if they die to the environment they lose a level. Also black phantoms only get souls from killing blue phantoms, killing the host only gives them their body back. Your souls will be dropped around where you died at, like any other death.

[HijiriOni]

Wait? The rule only allows "Lower Level" BPs, I'd always assumed they followed the same rules for inviting a blue.

(SL/10)+/-10=Invite range
Myself being 133 that's (133/10)+/-10=110-156 (it's rounded down)

[northernogar]

Black phantoms are at a disadvantage because they have less max health, and the host can summon blue phantoms and outnumber him.

They are at a disadvantage because the black phantom is risking nothing, and the host is risking his life and whatever souls he's collected before the black phantom invaded.

If a black phantom runs and hides from me, I run back to the start of the level and wait for blue phantoms to join up. If the black phantom does not relentlessly assault the host, they're making a big mistake.





1- i can agree with
2- hows that a disadvantage for the bp?
3- why would you let someone run back to the start? so i partially agree with you on this point

original point , the problem is dropping out before you die, if a summoner and his bp buddy are tag teamming unsuspecting players being summond to help out pull the f'n plug
and thats pretty much the only time i would agree with the rage button

eg i am a blue so i have about 80% hp and the bp has about 75 % hmm thats looking a little more even.......
guy summons me he is standing in front of me so i am thinking ok lets get the show on the road , all of a sudden i am getting f'n bs'ed wtf and so i run to try and wrap my head on whats going on and the prick is following me ( not the bp ) the guy that summond me and stands there till his buddy catches me before i can regroup, and yes i did it 3 times and all 3 times it was the same 2 guys

and yes the 3rd time was rage button it was the first time but i will do it again if that kind of ambushing goes on

[rion999]

Wait? The rule only allows "Lower Level" BPs, I'd always assumed they followed the same rules for inviting a blue.

(SL/10)+/-10=Invite range
Myself being 133 that's (133/10)+/-10=110-156 (it's rounded down)

Everything I've seen on the subject is that black phantoms can only be in the lower half of that spectrum, so in your case 110 to 133. Although, one time I did have my level 95 friend invade my level 120 character's game as the boss in 3-3, even though we couldn't play together any other way. I don't know if that fight just allows any black phantoms, if it was a glitch, or if the level range is expanded in that fight though.

[northernogar]

seriously come on ...... not more than 30 seconds ago f'n 2 guys did it to me again in 4-2 at least this time the bp wasnt standing directly behind me and i f'ed him up in 2 swipes but come on seriously dont summon people to ambush and then complain why people dont want to fight you or hit the rage button

[jedbeetle]

Sever disadvantage how? at lvl 140 its pretty much a crap shoot who wins, usually its only better players and if they (being the bp) mow me down in 2 or 3 slices , take my life or souls....... dude you deserve it you have obviously put more time than I... and you can always clear the level first as phantom then respawn then = no hiding

need a little more defense there, maybe some vitality...

[jedbeetle]

seriously come on ...... not more than 30 seconds ago f'n 2 guys did it to me again in 4-2 at least this time the bp wasnt standing directly behind me and i f'ed him up in 2 swipes but come on seriously dont summon people to ambush and then complain why people dont want to fight you or hit the rage button
Hah that's pretty messed up. I kinda hope someone tries to do this to me...

[jedbeetle]

Wait? The rule only allows "Lower Level" BPs, I'd always assumed they followed the same rules for inviting a blue.

(SL/10)+/-10=Invite range
Myself being 133 that's (133/10)+/-10=110-156 (it's rounded down)

Everything I've seen on the subject is that black phantoms can only be in the lower half of that spectrum, so in your case 110 to 133. Although, one time I did have my level 95 friend invade my level 120 character's game as the boss in 3-3, even though we couldn't play together any other way. I don't know if that fight just allows any black phantoms, if it was a glitch, or if the level range is expanded in that fight though.

This is definitely true, that invaders are always a lower level. I can just tell by the in-game patterns - for example when invading in levels you finished already, it's really hard to find a game to invade when you're past a certain soul level....

[Lexin]

You know I wouldn't mind BP except for the fact that most of you will run away into a group of creatures at the slightest hint of defeat so yes I will disconnect and make you lose a SL. If you want a straight up fight I'm in but don't b***h out and run into a group of stuff.

I'm speaking about what I had gone through in this game while some idiot decides to invade my game so you invade me and run away expect to get disconnected on. Now if you don't agree with that then guess what I don't give a f**k I could be that ass who disconnects right as you invade without giving you the chance to fight.

Dude....you're a d*ck. Black Phantoms are at a sever disadvantage in all cases. Running to a group of enemies is an essential strategy for invading, and is intended by the developers.
Don't be a d*ck.

Well guess what I will be a d**k then and no they are not since they hit harder. I have tested it myself I hit a lot harder in soul form then body form so don't give me that disadvantage bullcrap.

[rawtheory]

Rage quitters suck!

[northernogar]

yahhhhhhaaarrrrrrggghhh

[HijiriOni]

You know I wouldn't mind BP except for the fact that most of you will run away into a group of creatures at the slightest hint of defeat so yes I will disconnect and make you lose a SL. If you want a straight up fight I'm in but don't b***h out and run into a group of stuff.

I'm speaking about what I had gone through in this game while some idiot decides to invade my game so you invade me and run away expect to get disconnected on. Now if you don't agree with that then guess what I don't give a f**k I could be that ass who disconnects right as you invade without giving you the chance to fight.

Dude....you're a d*ck. Black Phantoms are at a sever disadvantage in all cases. Running to a group of enemies is an essential strategy for invading, and is intended by the developers.
Don't be a d*ck.

Well guess what I will be a d**k then and no they are not since they hit harder. I have tested it myself I hit a lot harder in soul form then body form so don't give me that disadvantage bullcrap.

How much testing did you do? Because I allready know how this system works. White World Tendency (which is what most online players have) Gives blue phantoms higher hp and higher damage, but has the opposite effect on black phantoms. In Black Tendency the opposite occurs, which is why people who love invading loved the halloween event.

[LxLgn]

I don't get why anyone who plays online in body form would rage quit. If they don't want Black Phantoms just play offline. Quitting before death online is a sure way to corrupt your save doing it offline can corrupt a save too but it not as likely supposedly.

Personally offline I must Death Quit at least 25 times during the whole playthrough. About 10 of those times belong to Phantom Sciriv and that stupid fireball but I still got my beast talisman.

But I knew that in my first playthrough I didn't want to keep using the cling ring or deal with Black Phantoms.

So, I played my entire first playthrough offline and NG isn't hard enough to need Blue Phantom help, especially with all the video strategy guides on youtube for just about everything from the tutorial to killing Black Phantom Selen.

[HijiriOni]

Yeah but most invaders are at the NG+ area, which has a HUGE difficulty increase.
Having help might still be un-needed but some things become just impossible on your own.

Some bosses all I needed was someone to take the heat off me once in awhile to heal or move to a better area...Adjudicator being a fine example for me. I shot the crap out of his head using a bow while my friend had warding on and just got his attention most the battle. Solo Adjudicator tongue lash 1 shot me, 2 if I was blocking.

Also like I said earlier... PS Button+Quit game=Safe, or if you play via ethernet pulling the cord is also safe...it's just the power button quit that's a problem.

Another note...there are some people who play in body form to be invaded but most people, like myself, only play in physical form to get help from blue phantoms...or just enjoy playing with friends.

[TurboDslBeetle]

This thread made me join...... This is a BS tactic used by the crybabies of the world. You're a coward in life and you bring it into this game. So you die, boo hoo, it's not like you'll lose a hand - unless you punch the TV. This game is HARD, it was meant to be - that's why most of us LOVE it. If you can't handle it - go back to playing Final Fantasy X-2 and leave Demon's Souls to us.

[jedbeetle]

Yeah but most invaders are at the NG+ area, which has a HUGE difficulty increase.
Having help might still be un-needed but some things become just impossible on your own.

Some bosses all I needed was someone to take the heat off me once in awhile to heal or move to a better area...Adjudicator being a fine example for me. I shot the crap out of his head using a bow while my friend had warding on and just got his attention most the battle. Solo Adjudicator tongue lash 1 shot me, 2 if I was blocking.

Also like I said earlier... PS Button+Quit game=Safe, or if you play via ethernet pulling the cord is also safe...it's just the power button quit that's a problem.

Another note...there are some people who play in body form to be invaded but most people, like myself, only play in physical form to get help from blue phantoms...or just enjoy playing with friends.

Seriously dude, this is ridiculous. Why do you even play this game? why do you feel so proud and entitled to ruin it for others? We should report you, since you are essentially breaking the agreement the game shows you every time you log in. invasion is a core mechanic of the game, not some gimped attempt at multiplayer as you would illustrate it to be. It's something different and experimental in a world of vanilla cookie-cutter video game mechanics.

Go play something else with your friends that's safe. Go play Sacred 2 or something. Sell your copy of Demon's Souls to someone who doesn't cheat.

[trenoterrier]

I've had about every player I've defeated just "quit" at the last instant before death... and it's especially irritating when they don't just quit at the beginning when I invade, but they actually fight, make me chase them around the level, lose, then JUST as they are fading away, I get a message "Wer32 has quit" I get dumped back into my game, no souls, no body.... So I've had my own little solution to this.. Anytime I reencounter someone who quits or whatever... I stop playing even the least bit honorable... Scraping spear and Acid cloud... and if I can get it off, Soulsucker after a stab... Someone quits on me they go home with a large damage bill to their equipment

[HijiriOni]

Yeah but most invaders are at the NG+ area, which has a HUGE difficulty increase.
Having help might still be un-needed but some things become just impossible on your own.

Some bosses all I needed was someone to take the heat off me once in awhile to heal or move to a better area...Adjudicator being a fine example for me. I shot the crap out of his head using a bow while my friend had warding on and just got his attention most the battle. Solo Adjudicator tongue lash 1 shot me, 2 if I was blocking.

Also like I said earlier... PS Button+Quit game=Safe, or if you play via ethernet pulling the cord is also safe...it's just the power button quit that's a problem.

Another note...there are some people who play in body form to be invaded but most people, like myself, only play in physical form to get help from blue phantoms...or just enjoy playing with friends.

Seriously dude, this is ridiculous. Why do you even play this game? why do you feel so proud and entitled to ruin it for others? We should report you, since you are essentially breaking the agreement the game shows you every time you log in. invasion is a core mechanic of the game, not some gimped attempt at multiplayer as you would illustrate it to be. It's something different and experimental in a world of vanilla cookie-cutter video game mechanics.

Go play something else with your friends that's safe. Go play Sacred 2 or something. Sell your copy of Demon's Souls to someone who doesn't cheat.

Sad...resorting to badgering someone for having an opinion. Also the game doesn't say anywhere in it's agreement "You aren't allowed to quit the game during multiplayer" if you can find it then maybe I'll care. But overall it doesn't matter as most of my game is spent in soul form. I don't exactly have time to play "Find the phantom" if I have classes in a little while or a job to go to.

As to "Why do I play?" It's pretty simple...I love killing big ass demons, dragons, and various other monsters. The most boring thing in this game for me is putting up with any human/humanoid monsters that aren't at least 10 feet tall. This game allows me to do that greatly and nowhere in it's agreements does it say I "have" to put up with being invaded.

...at least I have enough respect that if I don't want to be invaded I'll quit as soon as I am invaded so a BP won't waste their time chasing me down. It's stupid that it causes BP to lose SL though, I didn't learn that till I read it on these forums (I also haven't quit since then)

[jedbeetle]

Yeah but most invaders are at the NG+ area, which has a HUGE difficulty increase.
Having help might still be un-needed but some things become just impossible on your own.

Some bosses all I needed was someone to take the heat off me once in awhile to heal or move to a better area...Adjudicator being a fine example for me. I shot the crap out of his head using a bow while my friend had warding on and just got his attention most the battle. Solo Adjudicator tongue lash 1 shot me, 2 if I was blocking.

Also like I said earlier... PS Button+Quit game=Safe, or if you play via ethernet pulling the cord is also safe...it's just the power button quit that's a problem.

Another note...there are some people who play in body form to be invaded but most people, like myself, only play in physical form to get help from blue phantoms...or just enjoy playing with friends.

Seriously dude, this is ridiculous. Why do you even play this game? why do you feel so proud and entitled to ruin it for others? We should report you, since you are essentially breaking the agreement the game shows you every time you log in. invasion is a core mechanic of the game, not some gimped attempt at multiplayer as you would illustrate it to be. It's something different and experimental in a world of vanilla cookie-cutter video game mechanics.

Go play something else with your friends that's safe. Go play Sacred 2 or something. Sell your copy of Demon's Souls to someone who doesn't cheat.

Sad...resorting to badgering someone for having an opinion. Also the game doesn't say anywhere in it's agreement "You aren't allowed to quit the game during multiplayer" if you can find it then maybe I'll care. But overall it doesn't matter as most of my game is spent in soul form. I don't exactly have time to play "Find the phantom" if I have classes in a little while or a job to go to.

As to "Why do I play?" It's pretty simple...I love killing big ass demons, dragons, and various other monsters. The most boring thing in this game for me is putting up with any human/humanoid monsters that aren't at least 10 feet tall. This game allows me to do that greatly and nowhere in it's agreements does it say I "have" to put up with being invaded.

...at least I have enough respect that if I don't want to be invaded I'll quit as soon as I am invaded so a BP won't waste their time chasing me down. It's stupid that it causes BP to lose SL though, I didn't learn that till I read it on these forums (I also haven't quit since then)

Fair enough. I know, I've been one of those "you suck if you quit" people.
It's just that it makes the game lamer for the people who love hunting of being hunted, and who don't really care about all the difficulties and repercussions. Losing a SL in a fight? neat. Making someone else lose a soul level? neat. Having someone quit on me when I invade, or beat them in a fight?
....mehhh.

What I want to know:
What are you afraid of?
At which point do people go 'soft' and forget that a big part of what makes this game great is that it is difficult and unforgiving? And that what makes it shine is that it forces players to overcome downright oppressive challenges, including the untimely invasions of other players?

And you know, learning how to fight other players makes you a lot better at taking out those giant demons.

[HijiriOni]

It's not that I'm afraid, it's that I don't really like pvp, at all. Especially pvp I didn't get a choice in, and even more so when I'm forced into it (aka being invaded, where it locks the archstones, forbids the quit game feature, and basically forces you to either pull the ethernet, quit game via ps button, push power, fight, or enter the boss room)

If it came out and said "A Phantom is invading you, do you accept their challenge" I might actually say yes.

And no taking on players doesn't make you better at fighting giant demons as PvP tactics are alot different then bosses, players don't have the "slaughter you with a shield as big as a house" power just for one example. I won't argue that it will improve your skills against Old Monk, and NPC black phantoms though.

[sophie-ann]

I think it's pretty weak that this happens. I invade a lot and see this all the time, though lately it has not been so bad.

I don't see what the big deal is, I take my fair share of beatings , and wins, I figure if I lose or win, it's all good.

Often I have received messages after winning asking for help with the rest of the level, and have met some decent people doing invasions. I personally love being invaded and try to only play alive, so there are more chances of being invaded.

Anyone else finding the easiest invaders to kill are the ones that hide behind creatures ?

[pktazn]

I don't mind when people invade, hell I was invaded about seven times today in 4-2. I like going against them. Take today for example, someone invaded with a scraping spear and I actually had everything except my Norther Reg break because someone kept using that damn spear. Still, it was pretty intense and I loved every minute of it. Eventually I won somehow so I used those souls to repair my stuff... after I beat the other BP that invaded as I tried to leave. Needless to say, it was not fun going against another BP with broken equipment but that was an experience I won't soon forget. BTW, I'll take my beating if I get it but you can be sure as hell I'm gonna put up a fight.

As for people quitting, I have not gone against anyone who has quit before they died (yet) and I have not done it either. I did have someone who kept suiciding every time they invaded though, they even ran past me and just suicided so I was like "alright" and continued on my merry way. I'll take my beating if I get it but you can be sure as hell I'm gonna put up a fight.

And to answer your last question sophie: yes lol. Someone tried to kill me by making me go through all the skeletons in 4-2 before the second reaper but I beat the enemies easily. I think they were hoping for an easy win or something cuz after that all they did was dodge and used the lag to their advantage and backstab me. The funny thing is... I lived through both backstabs so they just left lol. If the person I went against is reading this, it was really fun tonight even though we didn't really fight. No lie. :]

[northernogar]

So what about the other way round? today i have had 3 bp's quit on me just before they die, i hear no complaing of this issue, if you got the balls to invade and use all that crap you bring to the fight ie. the spear and big ass cleaver and towel on your head, and i mow you down with a dagger you better be able to move and if your so worried that i am gonna take your souls you shouldnt have brought them with you

[HijiriOni]

There isn't even a point for a BP to quit like that, the only thing they can lose (if you deal the killing blow) is durability on their equipment. They don't lose SL from dying to a player or phantom. They do if they die from tick damage, enviro-hazards, or if a monsters attack actually does hit them, yay fire dragons. They also lose a SL if they leave via white stone, or if someone disconnets the game on them...which is pretty brutal to have someone quit on you just when you make the killing blow to instead of glorify you with a win and your body back, they reduce your SL.

I think alot of the pvp system needs adjustments, but if you compare this games multiplayer to other games by FROM...it's actually an amazing upgrade. But compared to games from other companies that have been making multiplayer games for much longer, not so hot.

[northernogar]

I'm just saying it's just as annoying when a bp quits on you when you dont mind the invasions and are up to pvp.especially when you're about to deal the final hit, come on take your lumps and deal

[pktazn]

I have to admit, my favorite BPs are the ones who try to run away to escape or heal but can't because their armor is too heavy so they can't run away fast enough.

I don't see why they would want to quit though since they lose a soul level using the white stone :S

[tyrannisauce]

I have to admit, my favorite BPs are the ones who try to run away to escape or heal but can't because their armor is too heavy so they can't run away fast enough.

I don't see why they would want to quit though since they lose a soul level using the white stone :S

Live to fight another day? ... wait