I loved Demon Souls. Now I hate it.

[artemis]

I registered just to post my distaste with some of the game mechanics and moreso this Halloween event. While I realize some of you may still be on the Demon Souls honeymoon, I passed my initial 'holy #### this game is awesome on so many levels' phase and into the more grounded 'lets rethink this' phase. So, I am looking for some constructive discussion and not 'omg u suck at dis' type comments, because I've beaten the game and my fair share of other players.

Firstly, Halloween is over with. How long does this event last? I've beaten the game once and around SL 100. I was well halfway through the second play through until this event started. Then, the game took a turn to the ####ter. I can only imagine how pissed off newer players are right now, and I can imagine a lot of them will be trading the game in this Tuesday for Dragon Age.

I bought this game knowing full well the difficulty of it and thats what attracted me to it. First playthrough, loved it, died a lot, got mad a lot, but still loved it. There are -severe- chokepoints in this game that must be addressed. It was already mentioned that 1-2 is absurdly difficult to get through on PBWT. Fortunately, I was past all that. I am either able to do 3-2, or 4-1. I am not a big fan of 5 much but 3-2 is quick to 3-3 and 4 is my favorite world. Since I hate the Maneater boss and have died my last 12 attempts at it, I picked 4-1.

Well, I died enough to put 3 and 4 into PBWT before I realized an event was happening. No big deal I thought, things will just take a few more hits- or so I thought, which brings me to my first point:

4-1 is IMPOSSIBLE to pass on PBWT. I don't know if its this weekend, or if its an 'in general' thing. What creative developer decided they should put a unique black phantom NPC at the spawn area? Do you know how lame that is? The least you can do is remove the two skeletons on the first set of stairs and put him there. It's not so much a difficulty issue as it is a poor design decision. Here's why: I cannot go 3 minutes without another character invading my game. So figure that one out. I can either get into 4-1 and wait for the BP, or, get into 4-1 and try to deal with Satsuki before a BP arrives. EITHER WAY, I am facing 1 and sometimes 2 BPs at once (if I summoned a player who gets Satsukis aggro). I mean really, can't Satsuki be moved inward a ways? You can't have it so you are getting your ass handed to you right at the spawn by Satsuki with BP invaders coming in right behind you.

I am wearing all Gloom, started as a thief, and not quite strong enough to wear all Brushwood yet. I have a Steel Shield +6 and Northern Regalia, PWCT for 540 attack power and basically double of every ring in the game. Most bosses or worlds are not an issue to me (I guess until everthing went black this weekend). While I realize my equip could be better, the game never gave me a problem. But it seems like no matter how many stat points I increase, 'naked' players can invade and kill me either by: poison/acid cloud (seriously, its lame), spawning in and getting far away, then spamming Soul Light (my magic defense is high yet this rips through me), and just recently a Royal took me out wearing cloth and a miridan hammer which seemed to bust through my shield and guard no problem.

Explain that to me. I have a few characters, and none of them seem to matter against any class I face off with. I am sure other players have had the same thought when I killed them, especially the guys much higher than me in full Brushwood when two swings of the Northern Regalia decimated them. That's not so much skill than it is luck, as whoever gets in the first two or three hits is going to win regardless of level, class, equip or gameplay knowledge.

While we're at it, whats the point to a thief? Can't pick locks, can't pick pockets, nothing all that special to them. They start with higher luck, but anyone can get higher luck and wield the Large Sword of Searching for more loot, so what gives? Why would you pick one? As I played I found it increasingly imperative to mold myself into a warrior just so I could withstand boss attacks and invading players. So I should have just started as a warrior, and I'd have been a little further along with my gear. I appreciate the notion that if you select a class you aren't stuck with the typical class limitations (thief can't wear plate, mage can't wield swords, etc)- but I think a little more thought needs to go into what makes classes different enough to be a good reason to pick one over the other.

Also, is there a way to switch the game to Offline? I've probably overlooked it. I want to be able to play the game without being interrupted, or at this point I will -never- get beyond 4-1 as it is right now. I'd like to enjoy my game right now without someone else interrupting me and souring my gameplay. As I said, I don't mind seeing a player BP come in once or two times in a session, but I can't go 3-5 minutes without someone coming in. That is way too much and I just want to enjoy my game before I go get Dragon Age.

[jedbeetle]

To play offline, log off of the playstation network.

[artemis]

Ugh, why didn't that occur to me. Thanks.

I 'like' the idea of BP players, but it happens so often that I can't make progress on the actual game.

[Sferzar]

Wait one more night so you can go back to neutral tendency. Everything should be easier tomorrow.

Oh and Atlus should seriously rename classes into "origins." The word classes gives off the wrong idea to people new to the game. And as for the rest of the complaints, I think I'm just going to let the others address them. It will be a lot more fun that way.

[Pathard]

I've been joining peoples games as a BP in 4-1 and 4-2.. to help them. That is, if they don't kill me first. Usually I just sprint past them and begin to kill everything in their path. Most people figure it out after.. everything is dead. Then I commit suicide.

[Buttons]

I've been joining peoples games as a BP in 4-1 and 4-2.. to help them. That is, if they don't kill me first. Usually I just sprint past them and begin to kill everything in their path. Most people figure it out after.. everything is dead. Then I commit suicide.

Then your supposed to give them a good fight, prove your supremacy, then let them kill you.

[Luminous_Reaver]

4-1 is IMPOSSIBLE to pass on PBWT.You are already dead.

Seriously though...use a shield, a strong dragon weapon can help if you're nervous because of the fire stun, avoid his overhead by staying out of range, or timing your rolls, and don't let the skeleton see you. Trade a hit for a hit. As long as you're blocking with a good shield you should be fine. He'll eventually try and heal. Go crazy.

[artemis]

I can kill Satsuki, the problem is BPs appear and I'm dead anyway because I can't take two at once.

So, either I rush in and try to take him out, or wait at the spawn for a BP invader who always comes in anyway. Either way I'm dead, because Satsuki aggros when I engage another player.

I feel that moving him into the level some and away from the spawn would really help this spot.

[monster528]

yea the event is kina lame, i hope it gets reset afterwards

[Leventa]

So much delicious butthurt over this event. If people trade Demon's Souls in for Dragon Age, so what? Good riddance I say.

[artemis]

Because it sucks? I didn't pay money for a game to have my gameplay/progress slowed to a crawl due to the chokepoints and constant invasions of other players.

Explain how you pass something like 4-1 with PBWT when BPs are constantly invading one after the other. What if you have no more stones of ephemeral eyes? That little spot is essentially a game-ender. It was mentioned in another thread that the spot before the Tower Knight is very difficult in PBWT too due to the added BPs.

Hit me with another snarky forum troll post because you know most of my points hold water.

[NeoReaper]

Dragon Age is a single player campaign with no online function at all.
I'm loving the event.

[Leventa]

Because it sucks? I didn't pay money for a game to have my gameplay/progress slowed to a crawl due to the chokepoints and constant invasions of other players.

Explain how you pass something like 1-4 with PBWT when BPs are constantly invading one after the other. What if you have no more stones of ephemeral eyes? That little spot is essentially a game-ender. It was mentioned in another thread that the spot before the Tower Knight is very difficult in PBWT too due to the added BPs.

Hit me with another snarky forum troll post because you know most of my points hold water.

Implying that I'm a troll just because I don't hold to your slanted viewpoint, doesn't make you more correct than me. It just makes your opinion and by extension your argument, look all the more invalid.

You see, if it really bothers you that much, you could just play offline instead of whining about it. Demon's Souls has, from the very start, been touted as an extremely hardcore and challenging Action RPG. Every review out there talks about how this game is not to be taken lightly.

"Oh no, I was beaten mercilessly by Satsuki! Instead of trying some new strategies, I'll whine about it on the internet! I bet that'll fix it."

Get a clue buddy, nobody has an advantage over you. If you're alive you can be invaded, but if you're alive you can also summon Blue Phantoms. I was in 1-4 all day and saw literally a half-dozen soul signs up at any one time. If you're dead, you can't be invaded and you can fight Satsuki alone to your hearts content.

Furthermore, if you had a shred of common sense, it wouldn't be that hard to just log out and save yourself and everyone else the agrivation of your petty rants.

[Tyroie]

Maybe I'm not understanding something, heh. This doesn't seem like it would be a problem at all.

Why can't you go through the area in soul form? Black Phantoms can't invade you then. If it's because your health is too low, couldn't you still level that up going through other areas again?

Why would the game be over if you ran out of resurrect items? You can still resurrect yourself without them. Or is it just because you think you'll never be able to overcome this obstacle?

We all enjoy different things from our games. Some people don't enjoy trying to overcome an obstacle that seems impossible. Some do.

[HitYoface]

im sorry i didnt read your whole post and i could be wrong but cant you go into 4-1 as a spirit and take him out?

hen you wont have to woorie about getting invaded

[ICE PICK]

im not trying to ruin anyones game but i will tell you this.....once you get that copper key the next item you touch could be a regen ring

if its that hard for you then maybe that will help (if you think about what i just said)

[GuyIncognito]

Ugh, why didn't that occur to me. Thanks.

I 'like' the idea of BP players, but it happens so often that I can't make progress on the actual game.

If you play in soul form, you cannot be invaded. Suicide in the Nexus.

[MisoSowee]

BP Satsuki is not hard, just play in offline mode/soul form so you don't get invaded. Walk forward with thief ring so the other skele gets up(before it's a pile of bones) and then quickly roll backwards behind the archstone. Wait till Satsuki turns back, than snipe the skele, and melee it.

Boom. You have the entire space to kill Satsuki now.

And Satsuki is NOT hard. His moves take almost NO Stamina to block, and after you block it's brain-dead easy to backstab him, and on wake-up he rarely rolls, so it's easy to get yet ANOTHER backstab. I killed him at lvl 15 with a dagger :\

and 1-2 is not hard. Divide and conquer. You can find a bow on the first tower on the king's road in 1-2.

[HijiriOni]

No I pretty much hate the game now too, as the PBWT event just makes NG+ suck, and not having any control of whether or not your in it just makes me very upset.

If I don't use a 100% Magic/Physical shield I die in 1 shot from Adjudicator tongue lashing, if I use the only shield that meets this I suffer guard breaks and death from follow up shots.

And...you haven't seen NG+ BP Satsuki...he's MESSED UP.

[GuyIncognito]

No I pretty much hate the game now too, as the PBWT event just makes NG+ suck, and not having any control of whether or not your in it just makes me very upset.

If I don't use a 100% Magic/Physical shield I die in 1 shot from Adjudicator tongue lashing, if I use the only shield that meets this I suffer guard breaks and death from follow up shots.

And...you haven't seen NG+ BP Satsuki...he's MESSED UP.

He's as annoying as he was in the original playthrough, because he tries to heal himself. Both times I used a purple flame shield and a scraping spear and poked him to death. In NG+ (at level ~90), I also plagued him to make the fight quicker...also, I was much better at stopping him from healing himself.

[Brandon Heat]

I'll agree with everyone, it just sounds like you need to be in soul form.

[mutilations]

NG++ Satsuki.. -.-;;

Been trying to get some folks to help me out on him because he's crazy godlike on NG++ PBWT. I'll admit the difficulty skyrockets but it's still fun in some ways. I do agree on the BP Satsuki placement though.. I wish it could have been a little further down to at least give me time to think. XD

Dragon Age: Origins is coming out in a couple of days and I've already had mine pre-ordered two months ago.. I can't wait. By all means, I'm not leaving Demon's Souls in the dust. I just need some time away from games every now and then, just my playing style.

[LemonFrosted]

Took me ~20 tries or more to get BP Satsuke down. Until I figured out that you need to be kinda off to his flank to get the backstab I just wasn't doing enough damage to press through the heal phase. Eventually he's sneak a heal in there after rolling away, it was just taking too long.

Once I figured out the backstab, two big backstabs and some good pressure put him down.

Of course Blind is what I'm really looking for.

[GuyIncognito]

Took me ~20 tries or more to get BP Satsuke down. Until I figured out that you need to be kinda off to his flank to get the backstab I just wasn't doing enough damage to press through the heal phase. Eventually he's sneak a heal in there after rolling away, it was just taking too long.

Once I figured out the backstab, two big backstabs and some good pressure put him down.

Of course Blind is what I'm really looking for.

Prepare yourself for a challenging BP sidequest. There are black phantom giant depraved ones on the way. Also, she is the only BP who cast anti-magic field on herself whenever I came with plague/poison.

[KinnShin]

I like Demons souls good game

[mutilations]

Finally got that maniac. Plague works really well.. it ended up killing him before I could get the last hit in.. joy of joys.

[LemonFrosted]

Prepare yourself for a challenging BP sidequest. There are black phantom giant depraved ones on the way. Also, she is the only BP who cast anti-magic field on herself whenever I came with plague/poison.

Yeah, if I can get past the twin giant pack then I've read that stacking sneak items can let you start with a backstab, but being a mobility focused character in a zero mobility environment is... not fun.

[Armen9252]

Because it sucks? I didn't pay money for a game to have my gameplay/progress slowed to a crawl due to the chokepoints and constant invasions of other players.

Explain how you pass something like 4-1 with PBWT when BPs are constantly invading one after the other. What if you have no more stones of ephemeral eyes? That little spot is essentially a game-ender. It was mentioned in another thread that the spot before the Tower Knight is very difficult in PBWT too due to the added BPs.

Hit me with another snarky forum troll post because you know most of my points hold water.

Ok just a quik note. I beet 4-1 today in pure black. While I was fighting setsuki another BP invaded. I killed both and continued. While I was fighting the Silver skeletons on the stairs yet another invaded, I killed him and then finished the skeletons. After that I just beet the rest of the level. You just have to be able to adapt to situations or else this game will screw you. I learned this early on and have been a very cautios, very decieving fighter because of it.

I came to this thread expecting many different reasons why you disliked the game but you based all your reasons solely on this event and on invasions. Invasions are in the intruction manual, you should know it's going to happen. If you don't like the event, just wait for it to blow over.

Just my 2 cents. Although I do disagree with those two points, I do agree that the class system should be more advanced and that Setsuki should have been farther in the level.

[KinnShin]

I like Demons souls good game

[LemonFrosted]

Ok just a quik note. I beet 4-1 today in pure black. While I was fighting setsuki another BP invaded. I killed both and continued. While I was fighting the Silver skeletons on the stairs yet another invaded, I killed him and then finished the skeletons. After that I just beet the rest of the level. You just have to be able to adapt to situations or else this game will screw you. I learned this early on and have been a very cautios, very decieving fighter because of it.

Given that there's at least a dozen distinct approaches to the game this isn't helpful at all. Not all character builds can handle multiple attackers as well as others, or even PvP in general. Not to mention that PvP also has the other person's skill as a component. You're just as likely to get an incompetent PvPer invading as a "hey, let's try this out" as you are someone who's made that their game.

[Armen9252]

Given that there's at least a dozen distinct approaches to the game this isn't helpful at all. Not all character builds can handle multiple attackers as well as others, or even PvP in general. Not to mention that PvP also has the other person's skill as a component. You're just as likely to get an incompetent PvPer invading as a "hey, let's try this out" as you are someone who's made that their game.

I wasn't trying to be helpful, just pointing out that it is indeed possible. You are right to point out the character build issue. I had overlooked that. In my opinion the best character build has to basically be a mix of more that one skill. Iv'e heard of (and encountered) people with amazing attack power, but when I get in close I kill them in 1-2 hits. Or I see mages that have absolutely no physical strengh because most of there leveling was in Itelligence or Magic. I'm sorry to say this, but you can't be too class specific in this game without getting your ass kick by the polar opposite. If you tie all the skills together equally you will be able to fend off most invaders.

Sorry if I'm restating the obvious.

[Izman-Ftw]

I bought this game knowing full well the difficulty of it and thats what attracted me to it. First playthrough, loved it, died a lot, got mad a lot, but still loved it. There are -severe- chokepoints in this game that must be addressed. It was already mentioned that 1-2 is absurdly difficult to get through on PBWT. Fortunately, I was past all that. I am either able to do 3-2, or 4-1. I am not a big fan of 5 much but 3-2 is quick to 3-3 and 4 is my favorite world. Since I hate the Maneater boss and have died my last 12 attempts at it, I picked 4-1.


1-2 wasn't meant to be played with PBWT on the first play through, but the event kind of forced that so I understand your pain. The maneater boss is also ridiculous just because he pushed me off the edge 10 times in a row.


4-1 is IMPOSSIBLE to pass on PBWT. I don't know if its this weekend, or if its an 'in general' thing. What creative developer decided they should put a unique black phantom NPC at the spawn area? Do you know how lame that is? The least you can do is remove the two skeletons on the first set of stairs and put him there. It's not so much a difficulty issue as it is a poor design decision. Here's why: I cannot go 3 minutes without another character invading my game. So figure that one out. I can either get into 4-1 and wait for the BP, or, get into 4-1 and try to deal with Satsuki before a BP arrives. EITHER WAY, I am facing 1 and sometimes 2 BPs at once (if I summoned a player who gets Satsukis aggro). I mean really, can't Satsuki be moved inward a ways? You can't have it so you are getting your ass handed to you right at the spawn by Satsuki with BP invaders coming in right behind you.


Satsuki has a horrible boss location, I agree, but I can tell the developers made it convenient for high level twinked characters to easily get through all the bonus material. When I first saw him on my 90 thief on the first play through, i just thought it was cool and quickly killed him. Free katana. Yet, in the event where I made a Royalty and took him to 4-1, I found it impossible because he just heals and 1 hits me; I couldn't even kill the first few skeletons!

But that aside, we WERE warned about the event. I just think making it PBWT for a couple days was a lazy way to incorporate Halloween, and a frustrating one.


I am wearing all Gloom, started as a thief, and not quite strong enough to wear all Brushwood yet. I have a Steel Shield +6 and Northern Regalia, PWCT for 540 attack power and basically double of every ring in the game. Most bosses or worlds are not an issue to me (I guess until everthing went black this weekend). While I realize my equip could be better, the game never gave me a problem. But it seems like no matter how many stat points I increase, 'naked' players can invade and kill me either by: poison/acid cloud (seriously, its lame), spawning in and getting far away, then spamming Soul Light (my magic defense is high yet this rips through me), and just recently a Royal took me out wearing cloth and a miridan hammer which seemed to bust through my shield and guard no problem.


I've heard Acid Cloud was a gay skill for PvP, and magic kills me as well with okay magic defense. Yet I think at higher levels, it's more about skill and select equipment than wearing the high defense with the high damage (what I mean to say is, status effects and gear that compliments each other rather than just looking through your array of items and grabbing the ones that do the most damage).


Explain that to me. I have a few characters, and none of them seem to matter against any class I face off with. I am sure other players have had the same thought when I killed them, especially the guys much higher than me in full Brushwood when two swings of the Northern Regalia decimated them. That's not so much skill than it is luck, as whoever gets in the first two or three hits is going to win regardless of level, class, equip or gameplay knowledge.

While we're at it, whats the point to a thief? Can't pick locks, can't pick pockets, nothing all that special to them. They start with higher luck, but anyone can get higher luck and wield the Large Sword of Searching for more loot, so what gives? Why would you pick one? As I played I found it increasingly imperative to mold myself into a warrior just so I could withstand boss attacks and invading players. So I should have just started as a warrior, and I'd have been a little further along with my gear. I appreciate the notion that if you select a class you aren't stuck with the typical class limitations (thief can't wear plate, mage can't wield swords, etc)- but I think a little more thought needs to go into what makes classes different enough to be a good reason to pick one over the other.


Yeah, Demon's Souls class selection seems pointless seeing how you eventually put a little into everything and get the option to be anything near end game. Although, this happens to be the reason I like it so much.


Also, is there a way to switch the game to Offline? I've probably overlooked it. I want to be able to play the game without being interrupted, or at this point I will -never- get beyond 4-1 as it is right now. I'd like to enjoy my game right now without someone else interrupting me and souring my gameplay. As I said, I don't mind seeing a player BP come in once or two times in a session, but I can't go 3-5 minutes without someone coming in. That is way too much and I just want to enjoy my game before I go get Dragon Age.

Sign out of PSN

[dsismygoty]

My technique is grind/farm (souls and black phantoms) in body form. Then in soul form beat levels undisturbed and unaided at my own pace. Works for me. See you out there slayer of demons.

[Zardos]

This event is the most fun I've had in this game so far. Sure, I've died alot, but I'll be damned if I give up and go baaw on some forums about it.

Delicious invaders, please keep coming.

Sorry you're not having fun bro.

[MEsoJD]

ugh... so much b!tching : /

[Gamefanatic]

I liked the event, and I personally enjoyed the Satsuki BP battle. He killed me in one hit, but I was able to best him after about 10-15 attempts. I did it in soul form to avoid the Invaders.. Hard as heck, but fun and challenging stuff (which I like)..
Anyone do 5-1 in PBWT? I made it to the end tonight, start to finish by myself in soul form.. NOT EASY, but damn that was rewarding finishing off the boss. Things got really hairy when I was killed 80% of the way through and left 90k in souls next to the Giant Troll (I hate those things). Lots of places to just walk off the edge and die in 5-1. They could have made those walkways a LITTLE wider... :P

[Syra]

While we're at it, whats the point to a thief? Can't pick locks, can't pick pockets, nothing all that special to them. They start with higher luck, but anyone can get higher luck and wield the Large Sword of Searching for more loot, so what gives? Why would you pick one? As I played I found it increasingly imperative to mold myself into a warrior just so I could withstand boss attacks and invading players. So I should have just started as a warrior, and I'd have been a little further along with my gear. I appreciate the notion that if you select a class you aren't stuck with the typical class limitations (thief can't wear plate, mage can't wield swords, etc)- but I think a little more thought needs to go into what makes classes different enough to be a good reason to pick one over the other.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm so bloody sick of games forcing me into what the developer thinks my class should be. They always get it wrong.

Sure, it'll make certain everyone is completely different in functionality...unless they're the same class, in which case, they're exactly the same as each other. Same armor, same weapons, same skills. They can't branch out from that path, except on pre-set branches, defined by the developer. If a Warrior wants to learn a weapon buff spell, they're completely left in the dark. Why? Well, because the developer said so. It completely limits you from ever trying to bend the walls of the box, to build a character that's even slightly different from the preset. If the class for your perfect character doesn't exist? Well, too bad.

Personally, I don't want to be the developer's thief. I want to be my thief. Demon's Souls lets you do that. It lets you decide how to build any class. Sure, any class can do anything, but why start as a Soldier, if you're not going to act like a Soldier? They exist as origins, under the assumption you'll pick the one which most closely resembles the character you wish to build, and then you'll take it from there. They are templates.

Now, sure, Demon's Souls doesn't have a perfect formula. You'll always have your min-maxers, or "cheap" tactic exploiters finding that little niche. Sure, you have tons and tons of people using Adjudicator Shields, or Dark Silver Shields(Guilty...cause it looks awesome too), and too many people looking for their "up these two stats to become a god" formula. However, at least I can build a concept for a character, make that concept, and enjoy myself. Even if it isn't the best possible combination, it's damn good fun, and no one can take that away from me. No class system will allow for that.

[Myrkan]

I'm just bored. I can't make a new character because I always end up playing it the exact same way(focus on magic, mediocrity in melee and ranged).

Pvp is rather boring as well, I have to go through 10 or more people to finally get a good fight that I usually end up winning anyways.

[jsbradley7]

Satsuki was tough, I tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly. I didn't let the game beat me and then complain about it. I stated a new character with a different build, came back and kicked Satsuki's @$$. There's nothing in this game that cannot be beaten if you are willing to try a new strategy. I take issue with some of the game mechanics (curving projectiles?) but I still play the game and enjoy it for what it is, a tough game that can be beaten. I'll pick up Dragon Age on Tuesday but it will go onto the shelf right next to the other games I've bought and haven't played because Demon's Souls has me trapped in the Nexus.

[artemis]

I'm just blowing off steam from this event I suppose since I died more times in one day then I have in the last 2 weeks with the game. I don't want to restart the game again just to get through Satsuki as he himself isn't the core issue, its his placement in the level that makes it ultra hard with BPs coming in (if youre alive, and online). I feel if he were on the first set of stairs, replacing the two skeletons, it would be a bit more balanced (not to mention cooler looking, seeing him waiting for you on the stairs as you enter through the archway).

On classes, even if you pick a class and it winds up being a hybrid of basically every class, then there is no real point to having a class. You should just get 40 soul points, and put them into your character, and start the game. Doesn't seem like anything special differentiates a class from another, which is the point of class based systems I thought.

I don't technically 'hate' the game, but I definitely hate that I feel boxed in now from PBWT, Satsuki and BPs. I need to be alive for the added HP (take a few more hits in battle), and I suppose I will go offline to avoid other players while playing the single player part.

[Gen Eric Gui]

As has already been explained, it's not a "class-based system". In the original version, they weren't even called "classes", they were called "Origins", because it's supposed to be what your character was before s/he came to Boletaria. Class doesn't only let you select your starting stats, but it also determines your starting equipment, and likely how you are going to play through the first couple levels before you can really start messing with your stats. Some classes start with better equipment but lower soul levels, others have good spells but poor equipment, some can roll and others can't; by the end game everything is homogenous but the early game is heavily, heavily dependant on class.

Edit: And the HP you get from Body form doesn't really help all that much, dude. At best you can take one extra hit over a soul form with Cling Ring, especially versus BP NPC's. If I had to choose between being able to take an extra hit and having to deal with BP invaders? I think that choice is rather obvious. I actually considered human form detrimental throughout most of my playthrough, honestly.

[Demondays]

I'm just blowing off steam from this event I suppose since I died more times in one day then I have in the last 2 weeks with the game. I don't want to restart the game again just to get through Satsuki as he himself isn't the core issue, its his placement in the level that makes it ultra hard with BPs coming in (if youre alive, and online). I feel if he were on the first set of stairs, replacing the two skeletons, it would be a bit more balanced (not to mention cooler looking, seeing him waiting for you on the stairs as you enter through the archway).

On classes, even if you pick a class and it winds up being a hybrid of basically every class, then there is no real point to having a class. You should just get 40 soul points, and put them into your character, and start the game. Doesn't seem like anything special differentiates a class from another, which is the point of class based systems I thought.

I don't technically 'hate' the game, but I definitely hate that I feel boxed in now from PBWT, Satsuki and BPs. I need to be alive for the added HP (take a few more hits in battle), and I suppose I will go offline to avoid other players while playing the single player part.

Ummm

You're char is stronger in soul form (i think - correct me if im wrong) and its harder for enemys to detect you.

satsuki is pretty easy once you figure out his attks - I beat him on halloween eve with my lvl 30 theif - he killed me once but after that i knew his moves and it was all over once i got behind him :D

[obie191970]

I don't technically 'hate' the game, but I definitely hate that I feel boxed in now from PBWT, Satsuki and BPs. I need to be alive for the added HP (take a few more hits in battle), and I suppose I will go offline to avoid other players while playing the single player part.

Or, you could just learn to dodge his attacks and not get hit - They aren't very difficult once you figure out his attacks. If I can beat him in melee in NG+ with my Mage in Soul Form and a Vitality of 8, then any build out there can do it. Yes, he is difficult - I died more times to him in my first game than I did to any boss, but like any other enemy in this game - Once you figure out his attacks and a way to defend them, it just becomes execution on your part.

I do understand your frustration, however, there are options for you to get through this part.

[Dominions]

I died and died on Satsuki! He easily killed me in one hit. I'm glad the damage didn't carry over to my next respawn because he'd probably be taking two lives in a go.

3rd try. switched from my great axe to shield & rapier lol no way could I beat him two-handing my axe
4th try. started wearing Thief's Ring to keep the skelly from noticing me
20th try or something crazy. finally got him by removing all my armor, the extra Stamina regeneration let me be a lot more aggressive when his health went low... he didn't even try healing because I was all over him like a swarm of angry bees

Then I died like a bunch of times on stupid black phantom skeletons until I got some friendly ghosts. Those goons are so fatal.

I gave Rydell 2 fair fights...
1 vs me and a blue phantom, where I was trying to keep him knocked down. Nope, he one-shotted the blue eventually and then me.
1 vs me using shield and rapier, he could do 50% of my HP through guard with magic damage from his staff. I so died.
Then I just stacked up thief/graverobber and busted out the Poison Cloud.

To be honest I got NOWHERE on this game for all of Saturday. On Sunday I managed to beat Satsuki, Ajudicator, then leveled my face off in 4-2 with the HUGE souls from trying to clear the level and helping other players as a phantom. Then I killed Leechmonger, Rydell, Tower Knight, Penetrator, leveled a bunch more. My character went from like lv25 to lv60 and my weekend went from sucking to awesome in a couple hours of the most enjoyable videogaming ever.

[VeroViper]

LOL. I guess we got a lot of sore rear ends from this weekend. My brother actually quit the game and put it up on ebay b/c of this event.lol, what a punk! I can't believe some of you guys and the whining. I'm not even good at this game. I took a beating, I cursed and jumped up and down a few hundred times. But by damn I had a blast. I'm a mage, so it took many attempts to kill BP Satsuki. But I hung in there and I did it. All in all, I took a beating, got lots of loot and had tons of fun. I am on my first playthrough, so this was my first taste of PBWT. I guess I could see where this wouldn't be so special for you guys that are on new game + and beyond.

[RedRocket]

On classes, even if you pick a class and it winds up being a hybrid of basically every class, then there is no real point to having a class. You should just get 40 soul points, and put them into your character, and start the game. Doesn't seem like anything special differentiates a class from another, which is the point of class based systems I thought.


The related problem with starting with 40 souls points is that sooo many people would be lost on how to create thier toon. FROM SOFTWARE gave the starting origins to help noobs to get going instead of getting frustrated and starting new toons once their first hour with that toon seemed pointless. If noob makes a toon and feels it fails within the first hour, makes another and repeats...he will be selling the game right away and start cursing it to all his friends that the game sucks. When in reality, he just didn't have a solid starting point.

I see it that the origins get someone started right away in the game and then it is the games responsibility to capture that player so they feel the need to continue.

[Jaikaro]

This game really isn't that difficult. I've died so so so much more playing other games, like Ninja Gaiden, or Devil May Cry on Hard or above difficulties. You don't have to have lightning reflexes to do well in this game, you just have to be patient and not make poor decisions. I don't know how many people I've seen while playing as a blue phantom who just want to run in full blast and hack and slash. This really isn't that kind of a game.

If you're just not a patient person in general, you won't enjoy Demon's Souls.

[joest01]

This game really isn't that difficult. I've died so so so much more playing other games, like Ninja Gaiden, or Devil May Cry on Hard or above difficulties. You don't have to have lightning reflexes to do well in this game, you just have to be patient and not make poor decisions. I don't know how many people I've seen while playing as a blue phantom who just want to run in full blast and hack and slash. This really isn't that kind of a game.

If you're just not a patient person in general, you won't enjoy Demon's Souls.

I have not played DMC3, but I know that I made it through Ninja Gaiden mostly by spamming those wall jumps. That strategy will not get you far in DS. A lot of enemies can effectively one shot you in this game. Heck, this past weekend has taught me that in NG+ and PBWT pretty much all of them can!

While I agree people should not be turned off by the difficulty (No individual section has enraged me the way for example the extreme sewer bat challenge has, on hard difficulty, in Batman), and understanding each enemy's patterns and weaknesses makes it quite possible to succeed, it is in many situations also a requirement to time your attacks and counters perfectly. It's not _just_ a puzzle.

And then there's invasions to worry about...

This game has held a mirror in front of me and shown me what an impatient video game tourist I've become in a way Ninja Gaiden never did.

[artemis]

Bah I tamed Ninja Gaiden and all the challenges on Batman without a whole lot of trouble. Well, except Alma boss in NG. Other than that..

[viGx2]

I thought the event was brilliant. It gave me the chance to get all my colorless demon souls. It was tough but but not impossible. Kodos Atlus and FROM I have my Hiltless+5 meow.

[undi]

If anything, Atlus turning everything to black let me complete all my PBWT events..granted I probably should've done them earlier instead of NG++ but I still managed to 1 shot Satsuki and Rydell.
Planning on adventuring into 5-1 and finally get Istarelle, but I just hate that area so much...not too keen on going in there. :(

[gather4212]

I am new to this game. Bought it 1 day before halloween and it was very hard. Then halloween came, 4 times in a row I had 60k+ souls then I died and couldn't get to my body so I lost them. THen I finally got to my body and got invaded and lost them anyways. Goodbye game. Here I come Dragon age. Too sad it was a good game but I am way to angry to deal with this. I have tried so hard and it just isn't working for me way to hard.

[Jaikaro]

I am new to this game. Bought it 1 day before halloween and it was very hard. Then halloween came, 4 times in a row I had 60k+ souls then I died and couldn't get to my body so I lost them. THen I finally got to my body and got invaded and lost them anyways. Goodbye game. Here I come Dragon age. Too sad it was a good game but I am way to angry to deal with this. I have tried so hard and it just isn't working for me way to hard.

Did you miss every review and every advertisement that said how difficult the game is?

[Gen Eric Gui]

I am new to this game. Bought it 1 day before halloween and it was very hard. Then halloween came, 4 times in a row I had 60k+ souls then I died and couldn't get to my body so I lost them. THen I finally got to my body and got invaded and lost them anyways. Goodbye game. Here I come Dragon age. Too sad it was a good game but I am way to angry to deal with this. I have tried so hard and it just isn't working for me way to hard.

You...do realize that you can get yourself out of Black World Tendency and the game will be much easier, and that if you stop patrolling around in body form you won't get invaded, right? All these people are threatening to quit over aspects of the game they have complete control over, this is getting to be completely nonsensical.

[Stilts]

Then halloween came, 4 times in a row I had 60k+ souls then I died and couldn't get to my body so I lost them.
I bolded that part to give some important advice to new players. Do you remember the old RPG adage of "save early, save often"? In Demon's Souls, that changes to "spend early, spend often." If you have enough souls to do some significant buying/upgrading/leveling, then go back to the Nexus and spend everything you can. Yes, it might be frustrating to have to fight all those enemies over again, but it'll be even MORE frustrating if you die and have to fight them all over again with nothing to show from your previous progress.

Unless you have a really high soul level where 60,000 souls is like a drop in the bucket or are absolutely sure you will not die, you should not be running around with that many souls.

[artemis]

But then people are stuck with 50% HP in PBWT in soul form, making it even harder if you are in say, 4-1, when Satsuki is right there. That's why I kept reviving so I had a better shot.

[Gen Eric Gui]

If you equip a Cling Ring, you have like 75% health(Around 65% in PBWT). The downsides of Body form are NOT worth that little chumpchange health boost.

And honestly, I didn't find Satsuki to be that hard. He doesn't have any ranged attacks whatsoever, so all I had to do was step in and out of his attack range baiting him to swing, then when he did I rolled behind him and smacked him one. He went down in about 5 minutes and I don't think I ever got hit. The only chancey part was killing off the skeleton before they could double up on me, but with a Thief's ring and a good bow that wasnt too hard.

[Stilts]

If you equip a Cling Ring, you have like 75% health(Around 65% in PBWT). The downsides of Body form are NOT worth that little chumpchange health boost.
Completely agree with this. I'm in Soul Form and wearing a Cling Ring and Thief Ring 99% of the time. Having greater control over what I aggro and preventing invasions is far more important to me than having a little extra health that usually doesn't matter against the enemies that actually worry me. Plus, my deaths won't effect World Tendency.

[jsbradley7]

But then people are stuck with 50% HP in PBWT in soul form, making it even harder if you are in say, 4-1, when Satsuki is right there. That's why I kept reviving so I had a better shot.

As Gen Eric Gui mentioned, the difference between body form and soul form is miniscule in regards to Satsuki. The problem I had with my first build was keeping him from healing so I came back with a moon winged spear +4 (1 chunk away from +5) and he didn't have time to heal.

Related note: Did anyone else notice that Satsuki healed as soon as he reached for his grass?

[Pwonder]

i just go on top of the wall where the keys are in the beginning of 4-1 and you can just roll over the wall then you are next to the boss

[artemis]

That's an exploit and not a solution.

[Dominions]

But then people are stuck with 50% HP in PBWT in soul form, making it even harder if you are in say, 4-1, when Satsuki is right there. That's why I kept reviving so I had a better shot.

Well, that was just a bad idea. You certainly don't need to offer your back to invaders while fighting someone as intense as Satsuki. The best ideas are the ones that actually work, not the "shoulds" that never actually pan out.

[HijiriOni]

I'm just blowing off steam from this event I suppose since I died more times in one day then I have in the last 2 weeks with the game. I don't want to restart the game again just to get through Satsuki as he himself isn't the core issue, its his placement in the level that makes it ultra hard with BPs coming in (if youre alive, and online). I feel if he were on the first set of stairs, replacing the two skeletons, it would be a bit more balanced (not to mention cooler looking, seeing him waiting for you on the stairs as you enter through the archway).

On classes, even if you pick a class and it winds up being a hybrid of basically every class, then there is no real point to having a class. You should just get 40 soul points, and put them into your character, and start the game. Doesn't seem like anything special differentiates a class from another, which is the point of class based systems I thought.

I don't technically 'hate' the game, but I definitely hate that I feel boxed in now from PBWT, Satsuki and BPs. I need to be alive for the added HP (take a few more hits in battle), and I suppose I will go offline to avoid other players while playing the single player part.

Ummm

You're char is stronger in soul form (i think - correct me if im wrong) and its harder for enemys to detect you.

satsuki is pretty easy once you figure out his attks - I beat him on halloween eve with my lvl 30 theif - he killed me once but after that i knew his moves and it was all over once i got behind him :D

This is right and wrong, in PBWT your actually weaker and suffer a small gimp to HP as well, and your enemies are stronger and have higher hp. In PWWT the opposite occurs.

But your right on the detection in all WT setups.

[artemis]

Thief/Graverobbers (depending) + Avarice typical ring setup

[Karkarov]

In soul form you will do more damage though. Avarice ring really isn't useful unless you are soul farming. Honestly look at your average mobs soul drops, they are pathetic. Using an avarice isn't going to make much difference on a normal mob when they only drop 200 or less souls to begin with. In general I would use one of the regen rings instead, or one of the caster rings if thats your preffered playstyle.