Demon's Souls Lore

[Leventa]

METRIC TON OF SPOILERS


I wanted to make a thread for anyone who has questions about the Story of Demon's Souls, aspects of its lore, or even some basic character questions. I'll start out with a few.

#1: I heard somewhere that Lord Rydyell is sometimes called Little Allant. Anyone have an idea of why? Or who tells you about this?

#2: Near the end of 1-4, it seems like Ostrava is saying that King Allant is his father? Is that the way it was meant?

#3: What exactly is the Old One? I heard from someone a while back that it was the end result of some old tree God that the people used to worship.

#4: The Astrea fight made me feel horrible at the end. This is more of a point of view question, but do you think that Garl and Astrea were truly evil?

#5: Is the God that Urbain and his followers believe in similar to the Christian God, or is it maybe the aforementioned Old One?

#6: Is it just me, or does it look like the Old Monk dies when the yellow robe leave him for the Black Phantom?

#7: If the King Allant at the end of 1-4 is merely an Imposter, then what the heck was he? Does that mean that the Allant at the very end of the game was his twisted remains?

#8: What's with the candle maiden, and why is she seemingly immortal and have the power to put the old one to sleep? Is this explained at all in some way that I missed?


If anyone has some insight into these, or some questions of their own, feel free to post!

[XFlammablex]

Warning may contain Spoilers....











#2 Yes he did say that King Allant was his father, and since he gives you the key to the room which contains his sword I would guess that he meant his father.

#4 If there was more of a story about them maybe I would feel bad, but when you camp out in a plauge filled room with psycho babies I didn't feel so bad stabbing Garl in the back, and the fact that I wanted his armour helped with my decision.

#6 I heard that the Monk dies because his body couldn't support the Demon Soul and that is why sometimes you get summoned to be the boss for that level.

#8 It wouldn't do you much good to kill her in the beginning of the game since her whole purpose is to grant you levels and lul the old one back to sleep. If you killed her in the Nexus you could never beat the game.

And as for your other questions I don't know.

[Karkarov]

1: News to me.

2: That is exactly what he means. Ostrava isn't even his real name.

3: The Old One is basically a being of pure energy or "soul" force that just uses the giant thing as a sort of shell. How it came to be or where it came from is never disclosed, it isn't intelligent though or even evil per se. It just lives by feeding on souls and does what it has to get by.

4: Nope, I think they felt betrayed when they learned something mentioned below and she felt sorry for the depraved ones and the literal crap hole they live in. Of course her efforts to clean the valley were going to be in vain, she would never be able to succeed.

5: The gods name seems to be Umbasa but to make a long story short they are just drawing their power from the Old One like everyone else. Learning this reality probably had a lot to do with why Astrea changed her goals.

6: He was already dead, the Robe is actually the demon he was just a host for it. Hence the player becomes the demon with the robe wrapped around their head since the robe needs a more.... mobile host to fight you.

7: He wasn't an impostor per se. He is the demon or soul form of King Allant, his actual real body is with the Old One. He isn't the only example. You actually fight the tower knight and the penetrator twice.

8: It is never explained all the way but you can infer that her life force is tied to the Old One so she can't die unless her connection is broken or temporarily off. The Old One like the yellow robe appears to need a host to really take a direct hand with things and I think she is basically his long term host and as such can put him into stasis.

[Leventa]

These are some great answers, thanks guys.

[Balfor]

#8 It wouldn't do you much good to kill her in the beginning of the game since her whole purpose is to grant you levels and lul the old one back to sleep. If you killed her in the Nexus you could never beat the game.


you actually can't kill her. she is the only npc in the nexus that will respawn indefinately upon death. aside from her, the only other npc that i know of that you can't kill is the monumental. everybody else is fair game :D


to the OP:
#1 i had not heard that
#2 yes, allant is his father
#3 it isn't really explained, i took it to be an embodiment of excess soul magic that over time, gained its own consciousness and acts through its servants, the demons.
#4 i don't believe they started as evil but were corrupted along the way
#5 i believe that they think their power comes from some higher being, when it actually comes from the old one.
#6 he possesses you to fight for him, and when he does, his old host, the monk, dies
#7 i saw the false king as a "phantom" of his true self, which had become corrupted
#8 no clue

[Eskol]

I just beat Astrea and I felt really bad the first time i hit her..."No, please stop this" I was like aww man I don't wanna kill someone with good intentions...she seems nice, and i am so used to waking up next to her...(she is the statue in the nexus)

[Zachriel]

I made a log in specifically for a thread like this. Any way of course spoilers ahead! Also some of this is opinion supported by what I felt was the connections.

1. To be totally honest, this is the one event I have yet to complete (curse not realizing I was in body form :'(...evil squid men).

2. By my understanding Ostrava is the son of Allant. You find him trying to cleanse his kingdom, and he mopes a bit about the fact there is no one left alive in his kingdom. He sends you to fetch his fathers sword, but the truth is the sword was broken by Allant. When Allant went to fetch North Regalia (the sword actually entombed) it shattered in half, leaving the "False King" with only half the family heirloom. Old King Doran woke in the tomb because the mist effects everything, dead or once living. However much like Astrea he retained a sort of white spirit tendency allowing him to pick up the other half.

3. The old one itself is open to suggestion, to me it was the balance of good and evil. Karkarov states it best, but I think it has great wisdom, I would almost tie it into being like Galactus from the marvel comics, because it seemed to always need a mortal host to bring it into a world to consume life, much like the silver surfer did things.

4. This is the question on why I wanted to join. I got to really thinking about this boss after facing them and doing the Pure White Tendency quest. The sister of Garl states that her brother and Astrea would visit upon this location more then once. Because the valley was known to be a location of abortion (the babies in the pool with the umbilical cords still attached) and the fact that if you look close, the bottom of her dress is drenched in blood. Grant it you could argue the fact that shes sitting basically in the pool....but each demon tends to take on the aspect of something closely related to them at one point in time. I think that she, because of her holy status, had a child with Garl, aborted the child and felt deep guilt by the fact. They returned to the location and found the locals that were also tossed away by society and felt that if they could some how bring them happiness (which she did) she could redeem herself. Sadly she did it at a time that the mist was invading and was trapped as an arch demon. After slaying both the sister knew that they had both strayed from the path and tells you so, even those who are almost perfectly pure can fall.

5. Id almost go as far to say a little of both. They talk of purifying demon souls to make the power seem more holy. Any way you cut it you are still harnessing demon souls for power.

6. Like stated above, the demons seem to take on the appearance or objects that most resembled them in life. In this case the Old Monk, who probably for all his natural life was a monk, lived and did everything once promoted in that robe and on his throne, its safe to say that the demon took on the persona of the robe itself. The act of dawning the robe (or taking over a black phantom) is the demons way of defending itself.

7. As mentioned above as well, I believe he is only called the "False King" because of his pure black tendency. He carries with him only half of the North Regalia, which was the Boletarian treasure passed down in the line of kings. His Body form is Old King Allant, but refered to the False King because of his impurity. When his body form is broken, he does return to the nexus, but he returns to the old god in the Nexus. The False King's spirit is the portion of dark soul that split the blade in half. You beating him and taking such allows the blade to become whole once more.

8. Once again I think Karkarov pretty much hits it close to home. I think that she is the Old One. I think that in the end, every character that comes in contact with the mist has two choices, become a demon and drain souls or be devoured by a demon. She has the power to consume demon souls and grant power for the souls collected (the same thing that the Old One did for King Allant). If you let her lull him back to sleep, she is at peace because she also returns to sleep with him. If you kill her, you basically take hers and King Allants place, the Old One talks about how you have an insane ability to drain souls out of people and that you have quite a bit of skill doing it.

The only question I suppose burning in my mind is "What is with the entire Shrine of Storms." Vanguard stands guard....Then you have a giant giggling demon that would remind me of the sin of Gluttony, except this place is suppose to be a temple to the storms/burial ground to heros surrounding the coast.

The old Hero makes a little bit of sense, a tomb enclosed area.

But then, a giant manta ray. I mean did the mist invade the water in the coast? Why is he considered the Storm god? That whole area confused me :'(

[Karkarov]

A few clarifications.... People should read item flavor text more...

The robe IS THE DEMON, the guy was just a host and being used. If you read the flavor text on the old monk hat it says it straight up. Also he was married to the queen of latria who exiled him for unknown reasons. When he came back he imprisoned her and anyone relating to her. So he wasn't a monk since he also obviously craved power etc etc.

Old King Doran is in fact using north regalia, the flavor text on demonbrandt says why it was in the tomb and not in use by Allant. Why they were split into two swords instead of being in their original form is an unknown. It is clear they were not in one form when king allant took the throne both from the flavor text of each and from what Ostrava says when you talk to him in 1-4 as he states "the kings swords".

Shrine of storms is simple, the people there revered and worshipped the storm. The Storm God is simply the manifestation of thier "ideas" and worship. It probably came into creation when they lost their souls and the power merged to become it or something to that effect. Why they imagined the storm king would be a giant manta ray straight out of cthullu (sp) books is beyond me.

[Callo Malus]

Just posting here so others can enjoy the collection of story information and speculation found in this thread.

[stereopathic]

yeah, good stuff in here. i'll add that Astraea was good at heart and pure of intention. but like a dish sponge, her efforts to clean up the valley soiled her spirit, caused her to absorb too much of the region's filth, tainting her and ultimately turning her into a conduit for the Old One's power. when you're sniping her, she prays three times, and each time the Old One answers by regenerating some of her life.

so i guess it's obvious that i believe the Old One is the god Umbasa. maybe i'm wrong, but Sage Freke says something to the effect that the god they pray to might be unsavory. this is the conclusion i came to.

[TRENDKILLER]

yeah, good stuff in here. i'll add that Astraea was good at heart and pure of intention. but like a dish sponge, her efforts to clean up the valley soiled her spirit, caused her to absorb too much of the region's filth, tainting her and ultimately turning her into a conduit for the Old One's power. when you're sniping her, she prays three times, and each time the Old One answers by regenerating some of her life.

so i guess it's obvious that i believe the Old One is the god Umbasa. maybe i'm wrong, but Sage Freke says something to the effect that the god they pray to might be unsavory. this is the conclusion i came to.

i thought she was using "heal" miracle
plus anyone that helps the unclean promotes unclean living
its the same as the churches giving food to the crackheads in san francisco
its just keeping the filth alive

[TRENDKILLER]

METRIC TON OF SPOILERS


I wanted to make a thread for anyone who has questions about the Story of Demon's Souls, aspects of its lore, or even some basic character questions. I'll start out with a few.

#1: I heard somewhere that Lord Rydyell is sometimes called Little Allant. Anyone have an idea of why? Or who tells you about this?

#2: Near the end of 1-4, it seems like Ostrava is saying that King Allant is his father? Is that the way it was meant?

#3: What exactly is the Old One? I heard from someone a while back that it was the end result of some old tree God that the people used to worship.

#4: The Astrea fight made me feel horrible at the end. This is more of a point of view question, but do you think that Garl and Astrea were truly evil?

#5: Is the God that Urbain and his followers believe in similar to the Christian God, or is it maybe the aforementioned Old One?

#6: Is it just me, or does it look like the Old Monk dies when the yellow robe leave him for the Black Phantom?

#7: If the King Allant at the end of 1-4 is merely an Imposter, then what the heck was he? Does that mean that the Allant at the very end of the game was his twisted remains?

#8: What's with the candle maiden, and why is she seemingly immortal and have the power to put the old one to sleep? Is this explained at all in some way that I missed?


If anyone has some insight into these, or some questions of their own, feel free to post!

#1 - it says it on the demons souls web site char. details

[HijiriOni]

Read the Soul Sucker Spell description for more info on Old Maiden.
Turns out she use to be a demon that was somehow captured and imprisoned in her current form.

[Karkarov]

Read the Soul Sucker Spell description for more info on Old Maiden.
Turns out she use to be a demon that was somehow captured and imprisoned in her current form.

Actually under certain conditions (I don't remember what all they are) the Monumental will monologue about her. He strongly suggests she is the person who was responsible for waking the old one in his time and point of fact says that is not her true form and she was once the most powerful demon in the world. This explains the "pancakes" on her face a bit as I guess they are sort of a punishment for her past acts.

[Wolfram]

From my own conclusions playing the game, plus reading other's thoughts, here's some of my insights...

The maiden in black is definitely a demon, and I'm thinking in fact she's just an extension of the Old One. He has a sure interest in developping demon hunter's skills, as that implies taking souls which in the end is all he wants. I think it's interesting the way this game gets you going and you don't really realize that you're a bad guy. I mean, in some sense you're good, but also bad. Astraea being a good example of this... and I was thinking something similar about those plague babies. I'm wondering if they're all hers, or maybe they're like demon spawn (or both?).

As to the king, I'm looking for some clarification... So, "false king Allant" is the king, but turned bad by demon's souls (as is everyone, including you the player)? And therefore after killing him, he returns to the Old One as that wierd mess? I suppose that makes some sense, the story is that Allant awoke the Old One so maybe Allant made his way to Old One and sacrificed his body... then the "false" king is what returned, an evil twisted version of his former self... and when he dies, he goes back to that body.
And as to the swords, Demon- and Soulbrandt, it seems like they probably came about when the fog/Old One returned. The false king picked up one as it is increased in power by his dark tendancy, while Doran holds onto the pure sword.

I have a question too, how is it that so many named characters have a BP form? Is this because they tampered with soul arts? For instance Garl... he's a pure type right? Unless... those are all his aborted children in the plague swamp... or at least his woman's. Or maybe they weren't aborted, simply corrupted by soul arts... Or could it have something to do with the pile of corpses? As much as I like this game, the story is soooo piece meal! At least it would be nice to have a codex (a la DA:O) to help piece it together.

And I can somewhat explain Adjucator... mostly from the shield. It would appear he is some sort of guardian of the dead/undead. I don't know if the undead thing happened because of the fog, but Adjucator's role is to either allow the corpse down to the crypts (hence reapers, ghosts, skels) or eat them. The body is like a robot controlled by the phoenix, which represents some god figure to the locals. Old Hero... I noticed in his room, the pillars have skeletons in the stone and they look like the gold skels you fight, I wonder what's up with that. I also noticed in that room there's some skeleton/mummies with their hands chained up... pretty wierd. And finally, the Old Hero's body remains in the rock, you only fight his soul. And then the storm god I can't really explain... as someone mentioned, it may be like the phoenix; simply a representation of their god and not actually a "manta ray"

Please correct me if I'm wrong... with some evidence haha. Interesting stuff

[HijiriOni]

Read the Soul Sucker Spell description for more info on Old Maiden.
Turns out she use to be a demon that was somehow captured and imprisoned in her current form.

Actually under certain conditions (I don't remember what all they are) the Monumental will monologue about her. He strongly suggests she is the person who was responsible for waking the old one in his time and point of fact says that is not her true form and she was once the most powerful demon in the world. This explains the "pancakes" on her face a bit as I guess they are sort of a punishment for her past acts.

I'm more willing to guess it's a symbolism thing rather then a punishment. It's a common belief that the eyes are the window to the soul, if her soul is that of the most powerful demon in existence looking into them would almost certainly be a bad thing.

[Karkarov]

As to the king, I'm looking for some clarification... So, "false king Allant" is the king, but turned bad by demon's souls (as is everyone, including you the player)? And therefore after killing him, he returns to the Old One as that wierd mess? I suppose that makes some sense, the story is that Allant awoke the Old One so maybe Allant made his way to Old One and sacrificed his body... then the "false" king is what returned, an evil twisted version of his former self... and when he dies, he goes back to that body.
And as to the swords, Demon- and Soulbrandt, it seems like they probably came about when the fog/Old One returned. The false king picked up one as it is increased in power by his dark tendancy, while Doran holds onto the pure sword.

No the two swords were always there they are treasures of the Boletaria royal family. No one really knows their origin but they were definitely there before the old one woke up. Also the false king is simply Allant's demon form, he says it himself when he says "how did you slay my demon" after you kill false king. Doran if you pay attention when fighting him is actually using regalia not one or the other, Allant and False King both are only using Soulbrandt. Soulbrandt's flavor text says plain as day that it was Allant's chosen weapon and he preferred it because it became stronger the more demonic he became. Like Ostrava says one sword was designed to save humanity and the other was designed to destroy it, sadly Allant choose poorly.

I have a question too, how is it that so many named characters have a BP form? Is this because they tampered with soul arts? For instance Garl... he's a pure type right? Unless... those are all his aborted children in the plague swamp... or at least his woman's. Or maybe they weren't aborted, simply corrupted by soul arts... Or could it have something to do with the pile of corpses? As much as I like this game, the story is soooo piece meal! At least it would be nice to have a codex (a la DA:O) to help piece it together.

Everyone who is still "alive" for lack of a better term has either consumed souls purposefully or accidentally and has some form of access to the soul arts even if they choose not to use them. Even Stockpile Thomas has to be doing something whether you see it or he admits to it. Note that every merchant also charges you in souls. So yes Garl Vinland is definitely using the soul arts, I mean he heals himself and everything. Those are not their children, that place is where people took their aborted babies to ... uh ... pile up. Thats what Selen says anyway. Basically it is like the equivalent of the trenches nazi's piled bodies in. The fog affects the dead too you know thats why Doran is walking around. To be specific the BP forms of people are what happens to you when your soul becomes corrupted for whatever reason. In Vinlands case it is his grief at losing Astrea that does it.

[LxLgn]

Read the Soul Sucker Spell description for more info on Old Maiden.
Turns out she use to be a demon that was somehow captured and imprisoned in her current form.

Actually under certain conditions (I don't remember what all they are) the Monumental will monologue about her. He strongly suggests she is the person who was responsible for waking the old one in his time and point of fact says that is not her true form and she was once the most powerful demon in the world. This explains the "pancakes" on her face a bit as I guess they are sort of a punishment for her past acts.

I'm more willing to guess it's a symbolism thing rather then a punishment. It's a common belief that the eyes are the window to the soul, if her soul is that of the most powerful demon in existence looking into them would almost certainly be a bad thing.

I don't think it's symbolism at all. I think she may be been like a Medusa Demon's Souls universe look into her eyes and lose your souls. If the eyes are the windows to soul I think she could open those windows.

I always thought that the false king was King Allant's Demon that he sent back to Boletaria while he stayed with the old one.

For Garl and Astrea I don't think they had a romantic relationship exactly but more like a relationship of duty it's not really a concept common in contemporary western media (because it's usually just replaced by a romantic relationship). She saw the people's suffering and tried to taken on their burdens by using the demon soul to absorb their pain so they wouldn't have to deal with it.

[DariusSlayer]

I would think that we can get more hints or clues to these characters with an expansion, yes? ;D

Going back to topic, the Candle Maiden was mentioned as to being one of the oldest and most powerful Demons, before arriving to the Nexus. So what made her "switch sides" when captured? And who was it that captured her? There's just too many questions that surround this character :P

[Wolfram]

thanks karkarov

[Rize]

In fact, there is not really a good ending to this game.

Since you are actually the bad guy from the start collecting souls for the most powerful demon which is the Maiden.

At the end you just choose to be her servant once more or to become the most powerful demon yourself when killing her.

Lots of people stated there is not really a story in this game but it seems deeper and intriguing once you really get into it.

[Wolfram]

In fact, there is not really a good ending to this game.

Since you are actually the bad guy from the start collecting souls for the most powerful demon which is the Maiden.

At the end you just choose to be her servant once more or to become the most powerful demon yourself when killing her.

Lots of people stated there is not really a story in this game but it seems deeper and intriguing once you really get into it.

Ya it's not obvious but that's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well... maybe you had good intensions (hello, Astraea?) but yea you definitely end up a bad guy. Especially if you do Mephistopheles quests lol...

[Rize]

In fact, there is not really a good ending to this game.

Since you are actually the bad guy from the start collecting souls for the most powerful demon which is the Maiden.

At the end you just choose to be her servant once more or to become the most powerful demon yourself when killing her.

Lots of people stated there is not really a story in this game but it seems deeper and intriguing once you really get into it.

Ya it's not obvious but that's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well... maybe you had good intensions (hello, Astraea?) but yea you definitely end up a bad guy. Especially if you do Mephistopheles quests lol...

Even the blue phantoms are corrupted, such a depressing game xD

[Karkarov]

Thats not true, when the old one is asleep so is the maiden so you clearly aren't doing her bidding. All she allows you to do is to tap into the soul arts and manipulate ownerless souls, ownerless because you either killed their corporeal forms or because they had already lost them anyway. You are adding those souls to your power though, not hers. The fact that you can kill her so easily at the end of the game is a pretty strong hint that she is no longer all that powerful in and of herself.

Remember she "used" to be the most powerful demon, as in past tense.