Demon's Souls is NOT THAT HARD

[Bearcut]

That's right, I said it. It's not that hard.
I finished 1-1 last night, and that's all I've done so far, but, being new to the game, I only died twice (Since no spoilers, I won't mention to what).

I also noticed, that even when I died, since I had to fight my way back to the spot where I died, I ended up with MORE SOULS overall. I just implemented a strategy where if it was a hard fight, I would back off a little bit so that if I did die, I could pick up the souls before initating the fight again.

Also, since you don't lose anything in your inventory when you die, it's not really an issue. It doesn't take long to pick up souls again, especially since you can pick up inventory items that grant you souls at will. So, if anyone is doubting getting a copy of the game because they think it might be too hard, Don't.
The game gives you multiple pathways to get to locations in a level once you've opened them.
The game gives you plenty of opportunity to collect souls.
The game gives you plenty of FUN. : )

So, if you don't have one, get your copy today!

[Alex]

The first level is not very difficult depending what class you are. But trust me... later on (after 5 levels or so) there will be some truely mean bosses who make you die a lot :)

[Zarathustra]

My initial experience has been the same, but it could be because it's still relatively early in the game. One thing I have found that makes a difference is that I've started with the Royalty class, so I take out a lot of enemies from a distance before I can even get hit.

[Bearcut]

I started as a Soldier and I know the plate has probably helped quite a bit in the first stage, but this post was to try and to get people to go out and buy the game if they weren't because they were worried about the difficulty : ).

[Demon Baby]

Thanks for the insight, but this is the second time this morning I read someone saying the game isn't that hard without finishing the game. (The other was some guy promoting his blog.) Super Mario Bros 1-1 is very easy, doesn't mean the game is.

[SasugaRIVAL]

I started as a knight and didn't die at all during 1-1...

1-2 is another story altogether

But I've found that basically if you want to stay alive you need to...

1) Don't be a dumbass.

2) Pay attention to bloodstains and messages.

3) Be patient.

and in my case...

4) Don't be greedy. Save some loot for later

[ICE PICK]

ya, the way people talked it up i was expecting it to be way harder.......i was actually diasappointed, but im not gonna say i havnt died a good bit....hell i died like 6 times on the tower knight.....but honestly, half of them are because my guy wouldnt roll the direction i wanted him to and i got blasted......i hate the lock on feature, it screws me over more often than not like that, but when i dont use it i have no issues

but this is a GREAT GAME by far im soooooo glad i bought it

that being said i remade my guy and ive died 3 times so far and im at that place where those green things mine ore

edit.....i want end with a question, my first play though when i was trying to cross that bridge to get to the switch to open the door to the phalanx the dragon harrased me forever....when i remade my guy he was nowhere to be found till my way to the tower knight and i got all the treasure by the castle....why was he gone that time?

[Karkarov]

Yeah I only died 1 time in 1-1 before killing Phalanx. Died 15 times total so far but of those deaths around 40% of them were me just not giving the fight enough credit or experimenting with a different approach. I started Royal but I try very hard to win fights in melee when it is at all sane to do so because mastering that combat is key long term. There are some fights I have encountered where range really is the only intelligent choice though, and thats all I will say about that on the spoiler free section.

*for the record I count dieing to Vanguard as one of my deaths.

[Kungfu-Hobo]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

[Jorlen]

Boletaria 1-1 is meant to ease you into the game. So naturally, it's the easiest level, and one of the easiest bosses.

After 1-1 is where the fun starts :)

[triplehz_rulez]

I started out as a temple knight and 1-1 is easy the tower knight is a hard boss I beat him in soul form by MYSELF when you do that bearcut say it is easy that was a hard fought battle for like 9 minutes and since I didn't have magic it was close combat the WHOLE time

[ZomDizae]

Yeah I only died 1 time in 1-1 before killing Phalanx. Died 15 times total so far but of those deaths around 40% of them were me just not giving the fight enough credit or experimenting with a different approach. I started Royal but I try very hard to win fights in melee when it is at all sane to do so because mastering that combat is key long term. There are some fights I have encountered where range really is the only intelligent choice though, and thats all I will say about that on the spoiler free section.

*for the record I count dieing to Vanguard as one of my deaths.
I'm a bit disappointed seeing KF fans taking the cheapest class for first playthroughs :P

[ICE PICK]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

i tend to not use the larger weapons cuz it slows my roll and i CANT STAND it......but i do like spears a bit so i was messing around with one....i have a wing spear +3 and put tupentine on it....killed him in 3 hits....got the killing hit with no health left on him and he was trying to eat some grass

im a wanderer

[Jorlen]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

i tend to not use the larger weapons cuz it slows my roll and i CANT STAND it......but i do like spears a bit so i was messing around with one....i have a wing spear +3 and put tupentine on it....killed him in 3 hits....got the killing hit with no health left on him and he was trying to eat some grass

im a wanderer

Raise your endurance high enough and you'll be able to roll with a large weapon is that's what you prefer. as long as your equip weight is at HALF maximum you will roll easy and run faster.

[ICE PICK]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

i tend to not use the larger weapons cuz it slows my roll and i CANT STAND it......but i do like spears a bit so i was messing around with one....i have a wing spear +3 and put tupentine on it....killed him in 3 hits....got the killing hit with no health left on him and he was trying to eat some grass

im a wanderer

Raise your endurance high enough and you'll be able to roll with a large weapon is that's what you prefer. as long as your equip weight is at HALF maximum you will roll easy and run faster.

wow man i did not know that....ty so much i need to start working on endurance

[Bearcut]

I started out as a temple knight and 1-1 is easy the tower knight is a hard boss I beat him in soul form by MYSELF when you do that bearcut say it is easy that was a hard fought battle for like 9 minutes and since I didn't have magic it was close combat the WHOLE time

I have. So Naah

BTW guys stop spoiling.

[ChiTownBoi]

lol so u triumph over the 1st boss and u say the game isnt hard xD well have fun with the future bosses theyre all vicious and "unbeatable" when ur not careful ;)

[Soulshiver]

I started a thief and died like crazy. mostly on the red knight. I guess I am hard headed. I will come back to him or start a different class. Dagger crits are pretty sick.

[Quig]

I started off as a Hunter, and I kept dying trying to get past the Knight with the glowing red eyes and the spear. I tried it so much, that my axe broken... Started a new quest with a wizard and it made a huge difference during the play through, night and day almost. I'm so used to playing Oblivion that I keep forgetting to hit the O button to dive out of the way. That is what is making it hard for me.

[ChiTownBoi]

ur not supposed to fight the red eyed night till u have reach area 1-4 really lol u have no reason to go over there until u get the key from ostrava

[ZomDizae]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

i tend to not use the larger weapons cuz it slows my roll and i CANT STAND it......but i do like spears a bit so i was messing around with one....i have a wing spear +3 and put tupentine on it....killed him in 3 hits....got the killing hit with no health left on him and he was trying to eat some grass

im a wanderer

Raise your endurance high enough and you'll be able to roll with a large weapon is that's what you prefer. as long as your equip weight is at HALF maximum you will roll easy and run faster.
Jorlen, I noticed you already have your NA copy - what's "intelligence" in that version ? Is it a different translation for the "will" stat?

EDIT: NVM, checked the screen in the official wiki. I was right it's the same as will.

[beastxjason]

lvl 74 on last boss. Haveing had the import version helped but if you do practice its extremely easy on 2nd playthrough. Took 6 playthroughs to get godly at it for me.

[Jorlen]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

i tend to not use the larger weapons cuz it slows my roll and i CANT STAND it......but i do like spears a bit so i was messing around with one....i have a wing spear +3 and put tupentine on it....killed him in 3 hits....got the killing hit with no health left on him and he was trying to eat some grass

im a wanderer

Raise your endurance high enough and you'll be able to roll with a large weapon is that's what you prefer. as long as your equip weight is at HALF maximum you will roll easy and run faster.
Jorlen, I noticed you already have your NA copy - what's "intelligence" in that version ? Is it a different translation for the "will" stat?

EDIT: NVM, checked the screen in the official wiki. I was right it's the same as will.

I don't have my NA version yet :( Still waiting for that precious call from my local video game store, better be today!

[ZomDizae]

I don't have my NA version yet :( Still waiting for that precious call from my local video game store, better be today!
Doh! Good to know I'm not the only one of the Asian importers still waiting to mess up the NA servers...

[Jorlen]

I don't have my NA version yet :( Still waiting for that precious call from my local video game store, better be today!
Doh! Good to know I'm not the only one of the Asian importers still waiting to mess up the NA servers...

Just called my store, I'm fairly disappointed in them actually. They said they only received one copy of the standard edition. I asked when they were getting the deluxe and they said, "Well you're the only one who ordered a deluxe edition. We don't know why we didn't get it at the same time but, don't worry, we'll call you as soon as we do, I'm sure it will come in but there's no way for me to check".

Suffice to say I'll be trying to find it elsewhere. I'm nervous, I don't want to miss out on the deluxe edition.

[ZomDizae]

I don't have my NA version yet :( Still waiting for that precious call from my local video game store, better be today!
Doh! Good to know I'm not the only one of the Asian importers still waiting to mess up the NA servers...

Just called my store, I'm fairly disappointed in them actually. They said they only received one copy of the standard edition. I asked when they were getting the deluxe and they said, "Well you're the only one who ordered a deluxe edition. We don't know why we didn't get it at the same time but, don't worry, we'll call you as soon as we do, I'm sure it will come in but there's no way for me to check".

Suffice to say I'll be trying to find it elsewhere. I'm nervous, I don't want to miss out on the deluxe edition.
Since you're in Canada, why didn't you try a videogamesplus? I preorder from there and they shipped it yesterday. Now I only have to wait 'til this thing arrives here in cheese&chocolate-land...

[Pibbman]

Man wait until you get to 1-2 boss. Holy CRAP.

[Jorlen]

Since you're in Canada, why didn't you try a videogamesplus? I preorder from there and they shipped it yesterday. Now I only have to wait 'til this thing arrives here in cheese&chocolate-land...

Hrm they list as having some in stock, I may just get this so I know I'll have a copy at least. Thanks for the site link!

[highlen]

pure black world is harder give it a shot if you havent

[Juanblue85]

Nah I don't think its difficult either its just I keep screwing up and die a lot which I knew before I got the game that I would die in the tutorial and man was I right.

[Sferzar]

Try getting out of the white tendency and watch how hard the game is.

[reb_moonshiner]

Demons souls is'nt hard...the multiplayer is the worst crap i have ever seen before in my life though. I can't even invite friends.

[Pibbman]

Demons souls is'nt hard...the multiplayer is the worst crap i have ever seen before in my life though. I can't even invite friends.

Did you even research before you bought the game?

[Sferzar]

Demons souls is'nt hard...the multiplayer is the worst crap i have ever seen before in my life though. I can't even invite friends.

Did you even research before you bought the game?

Yeah they really should have done their research.

[reb_moonshiner]

Well seeing as this is supposed to be a modern game i figured a lobby or friend invites was a given...i didnt know this game has online play from year 2000.

[Sferzar]

Oh well, try returning it if it bothers you too much.

[reb_moonshiner]

Yeah i already did....thank god i got my money back to. Now all i have to do is wait for cod mw2 to come out.

[Sferzar]

Yeah i already did....thank god i got my money back to. Now all i have to do is wait for cod mw2 to come out.

Thats awesome.

[Pibbman]

Yeah i already did....thank god i got my money back to. Now all i have to do is wait for cod mw2 to come out.

I have to wonder why you're in the DS forums now if you returned the game?

[reb_moonshiner]

i know....its very amazing. All i had to do was tell them it was my birthday and my aunt got me the wrong game for the wrong system. Lies are not lies if you know they are true.

[reb_moonshiner]

Because i like to complain about how hard the game sucks.

[ZomDizae]

What happened here? Someone should finally lock the gate to 5-2...

[Sferzar]

Well now that the forums are getting bigger we were bound to get trolls. Apparently someone used the banish spell so all is well.

[Pathard]

Man wait until you get to 1-2 boss. Holy CRAP.
I didn't find 1-2 that difficult. I just rolled and jumped back a lot. :D

[Zion0153]

Man wait until you get to 1-2 boss. Holy CRAP.
I didn't find 1-2 that difficult. I just rolled and jumped back a lot. :D

Lol, it's harder for me because my character has more then half his weight equipped or however that works.. he rolls and runs really slow lol.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Man wait until you get to 1-2 boss. Holy CRAP.
I didn't find 1-2 that difficult. I just rolled and jumped back a lot. :D

Yeah, rolling and running got me through that battle with hardly a scratch.

[n9philim]

Man wait until you get to 1-2 boss. Holy CRAP.
I didn't find 1-2 that difficult. I just rolled and jumped back a lot. :D

Yeah, rolling and running got me through that battle with hardly a scratch.

Yeah, same. Beat in on my first try. Admittedly with a phantom, but he died terribly like 1 minute in.

[triplehz_rulez]

man I love this game I pretty much play it NON stop....best game for the ps3...i started out as a temple knight and everything and I just killed a demon and got my body back went to the nexus and up graded came back to the storm place and all of a sudden it pops up a samurai guy has invaded your game I look back and there he is with two katanas and I'm like holy crap I just have a spiked shield +4 and a bastard sword +4 so I was on the defensive and he is letting loose on me and taking some of my life and then he has on his weapons where I am bleeding so I am blocking his attacks we both heal back all of the way and then he tries to unload again with me blocking and after all of his hits I let loose with my bastard sword and whoop his ace it was a great feeling I tried to add him as a friend on my psn but he never replied to it....this game is awesome sometimes you win sometimes you lose

[MichaelMacade]

Let me get this out of the way real fast, i LOVE DEMON SOULS, love it. I would make love to it if i wasnt afraid of breaking the disc.

That being said I have one very eensy weensy problem with it. And its probably a problem that is unique to me and a few others. Im colorblind. What does that have to do with anything? Because the menus are all colored in such a way that its VERY VERY hard to distinguish what item i have selected in my inventory, if im about to choose yes or no, or when im about to write a message or reccomend one. I know the dark dreary style fits with the mood of the game, and I love it, I love how the game continually improves and makes me go "Wow" as i play it, but I am struggling with the menus almost every time i need to use an item, repair something, or equip something into my quickslot. I know that there is nothing that can be done now, but in the future maybe give the option at least for some high-contrast menus?

[Xuberance]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

Don't give up! It's not totally impossible to defeat him with default level and equipment. I died to him several times before I defeated him... Only to attack the king behind him and promptly eating steel and being reborn back into the nexus

[Pathard]

I died twice during 1-1, but that because I am stubborn and couldn't accept losing to the red-eyed knight. I guess I will have to come back after some leveling.

Don't give up! It's not totally impossible to defeat him with default level and equipment. I died to him several times before I defeated him... Only to attack the king behind him and promptly eating steel and being reborn back into the nexus
Yeah, I finally killed him. Pain in the butt. Also, I got to the end of 2-2... I think I'll grind a little before going back. lol

[Syra]

Yeah, I finally killed him. Pain in the butt. Also, I got to the end of 2-2... I think I'll grind a little before going back. lol

2-2's boss battle is so awesome, and intense. I haven't cleared it on my game yet, but I helped someone as a blue phantom, that was one epic fight, I loved it!

[Perversion]

I'm colorblind as well, and I've not had a problem, at least on the import version.


Also, for the poster on the first page who referenced the guy promoting his blog, yeah, that was my new blog, and yeah, I did post a link, but it was mainly intended for some discussion on the perceived difficulty level of the game. I figure the majority of people posting here are intelligent human beings and would be able to appreciate an in-depth critique of the game. And if you'd read the two essays, you'd have understood that I never really said that the game itself wasn't difficult, but instead that much of the difficulty comes from overcoming ingrained habits and routines.

[Bearcut]

Perversion: Totally agree with you.
Now i've played alot of different stages and have died ALOT, but death in this game isn't such a huge deal as some of these forum trolls would have you believe...
You don't lose anything but Souls, and shortcuts make it easier to get back to where you died. Plus, it's easy enough to farm souls if your desperate. If your running around with 20,000 souls in a new area you are just asking to lose em...
I lost about 8,000 Souls to a Black Skeleton in 4-1 but that was totally my fault...
Anyway, it's all ingrained habits. Back in the day, Super Mario was a really hard game that when you died, you had to start at the beginning of the level, and all the enemies came back, but nobody complained back then. It's just so many people are used to checkpoints and all now. Respawning RIGHT where you died previously. Good for one playthrough rental games, bad for games you want to get your money out of : )
Now if they could just fix the connection issues I would be real happy...

[Karkarov]

I do have one challenge complaint, the Camera and lock on. Lock on is very finicky sometimes you can lock on from around a corner... sometimes you cant. Sometimes you are standing on stairs looking at a guy charging you with a spear and it still won't let you lock on as he is stabbing you in the face. The camera is responsible for at least two deaths of mine on flamelurker as it panned behind me promply giving me a great view of some debris on the ceiling and some broken pillars, I couldn't see myself though or flamelurker for that matter that equals a bad situation and then some.

I think Flamelurker got me 4 or 5 times before I killed him but it was because I got pissed and played sloppy mostly. The first time I fought him I got him to 1-2 hits from death and let myself get in a hurry instead of backing off and staying full hp etc. Took a break from him for two hours after the last death to do other areas came back more focussed and refreshed and took him out frist go. Was a hella crazy fight though.

[Malku]

Yah, the camera nearly got me killed on him because it got stuck on the collumns :(.

[Legendary]

I agree with camera angle issues, it can get really bad on cliffs /stairs in some places.

DS has every thing I truly despise in a game of this genre...However, it is such a magnificent game...What is taking 5 O'clock so long dammit!!!!

[harlequ1n]

Here's my story :D

Got the game today (finally), started with a Soldier as I intended ever since I learned about the "classes". He's very heavy and slow as I realised fairly quickly trying to do evasive rolls, however I've come used to the Broadsword (now +4) and the Short Spear while using a Composite Bow for ranged attacks.

I don't really know how to explain what happened but I played through 1-1 and killed Phalanx without dying once and I thought, wow now that was easy. Then 1-2 came and completely destroyed me...

I died at least 10 times trying to even reach the Tower Knight. I rescued Ostrava for the second time but I can't see him anymore so I guess he's dead :(Those damn dogs kill me so easily it's ridiculous, I learned through pain and blood how to parry and riposte those pesky blue-eyed knights and then got to the gigantic knight. Killed all the archers and tried killing him only to fulfil my ill-fated destiny. I can't even get near him as he's faster than me!

I've been exploring other "worlds" and damn are they hard, I guess I just don't understand how to upgrade weapons and level up efficiently. Amazing game and a lot of fun :)

[triplehz_rulez]

dude I will say the hardest boss to fight is the false king....a word of advice if you want to beat him be able to sprint and roll fast....but I beat the game and now I am on new game + i got my guy to level 112 for now....but put it this way it is a lot harder now the tower knight I tried ONE time and I was trying to run with all of my armor on and in soul form in one shot with his spear I died instantly so I need to get my health up or something....but if you ever need help just try to get in body form and get others to help you it at least helps you a little more and gives you a better chance

[Legendary]

Here's my story :D

Got the game today (finally), started with a Soldier as I intended ever since I learned about the "classes". He's very heavy and slow as I realised fairly quickly trying to do evasive rolls, however I've come used to the Broadsword (now +4) and the Short Spear while using a Composite Bow for ranged attacks.

I don't really know how to explain what happened but I played through 1-1 and killed Phalanx without dying once and I thought, wow now that was easy. Then 1-2 came and completely destroyed me...

I died at least 10 times trying to even reach the Tower Knight. I rescued Ostrava for the second time but I can't see him anymore so I guess he's dead :(Those damn dogs kill me so easily it's ridiculous, I learned through pain and blood how to parry and riposte those pesky blue-eyed knights and then got to the gigantic knight. Killed all the archers and tried killing him only to fulfil my ill-fated destiny. I can't even get near him as he's faster than me!

I've been exploring other "worlds" and damn are they hard, I guess I just don't understand how to upgrade weapons and level up efficiently. Amazing game and a lot of fun :)


Don't want to give out spoilers so I'll watch what I say...

Blue Knights /archers at 1.2...After running so far, take a deep breath before fighting.

Really...Really bbbig Knight...Maybe stepping on a scale once in a while or putting down that Twinkie might help. (he shouldn't be "faster" than you)

[Asyrin]

The measure of a game can't acurately be figured by the first stage, really. Give it some time. :)

[Asyrin]

Demons souls is'nt hard...the multiplayer is the worst crap i have ever seen before in my life though. I can't even invite friends.

I love the approach they've taken to multiplayer in this game. It gives you a real sense of being alone in a hostile environment.

[Bacon Deity]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

[Sferzar]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

I seriously think that the game is not hard, its just the fact that gamers nowadays are just spoiled.

[Bacon Deity]

I disagree, not fully, but I disagree a little. This game does take quite some skill, and you seem to have it, if you feel that it isn't difficult. I'm definetely not spoiled by other games, I play everything, and I'm "okay" at this game, still have fun though, but I cringe and twist my controller when I get killed or when a phantom shanks me... (I've always sucked at PVP, no matter what game, I always sucked)

But that dude who came back to the store, he... he's something truly special-ed.

[VeroViper]

I guess I'm in trouble then. I'm not even finished 1-1 and I'm finding it pretty difficult. Fun, but difficult.

[Karkarov]

It gets easier as you play. Just remember the secret to success in a new area is moving slow, keeping your shield up, and always checking your environment in detail before attacking an enemy. Especially in 1-1 there are many many environmental factors that can make your fights either cakewalks or nightmares.

Last but not least, when in doubt, use range to take em out!

[ZomDizae]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

I seriously think that the game is not hard, its just the fact that gamers nowadays are just spoiled.
+1

[Bacon Deity]

It gets easier as you play. Just remember the secret to success in a new area is moving slow, keeping your shield up, and always checking your environment in detail before attacking an enemy. Especially in 1-1 there are many many environmental factors that can make your fights either cakewalks or nightmares.

Last but not least, when in doubt, use range to take em out!

Absolutely. And with each progressive section it gets easier. IE: From hardest to easiest, in no particular order 1-1> 2-1> 3-1> 4-1> 5-1. This is because you can upgrade yourself after each level, thus becoming stronger, and because the game is designed to let you choose whatever path you want to fight, the difficulty of the subsequent subsections of each world (2-1 and 3-1 or 4-3 and 2-3) is similar.

Also follow Karkarov's advise! Be careful, and examine your surroundings!

[Rc2124]

I think what might have helped some of us was watching videos before playing. We got to see how the game is played, and what you can and can't do before even picking up a controller. We didn't come in and expect to just be able to bulldoze through all the enemies in the level, and if we died, it was because the game did something unfair. We came in fully understanding our weakness, and that death is pretty much always our fault. The guy who walked in to the game store and came back crying the next day obviously wasn't prepared for any of it. :p

[kane3977]

That's right, I said it. It's not that hard.
I finished 1-1 last night, and that's all I've done so far, but, being new to the game, I only died twice (Since no spoilers, I won't mention to what).

<SNIP>

The game gives you plenty of FUN. : )

So, if you don't have one, get your copy today!

It generally isn't that hard to be honest, at least given a cautious approach and good awareness. There are still spots that do give me problems sometimes but that's because I'm hard-headed and never use a bow.

That said, basing your opinion on the difficulty based solely on the first level is a little silly. 1-1 is a glorified tutorial compared to the rest of the game. Even with great equipment, lots of hp, and experience playing this game, there are plenty of spots where 1 mistake = death. Maybe that doesn't make it hard (unforgiving may be a better term) but it certainly doesn't make it easy.

Definitely agree w/ the last part of your post though :)

[Rc2124]

Yeah, unforgiving is definitely a better word for the game. It's easy going until you mess up, haha... The only parts that I've had that were difficult so far (Don't get me wrong, there were lots of parts that were a challenge, but nothing overly serious) was the Red-Eye Knight in 1-1, and the BP with the Tower Shield and Scraping Spear in 1-4. The Red-Eye Knight I finally beat after almost twenty tries, sleeping on it, and then another five tries. I was too stubborn to use the falling trick, and some part of me didn't let me continue the rest of the level until I had beaten him. Took a while, but it was felt so worth it afterwards... As for the BP with the Scraping Spear, I can beat him with bows, but I'm trying to find an alternative to wasting arrows right before fighting big ol' you-know-who... Melee isn't working out too well, haha. We'll see how it goes. =P

[VeroViper]

I agree with the unforgiving assessment. THere is a very small margin for error. You can get away with 1 or 2 slip ups if youre lucky. More than that and your dead. It's a good challenge.

[Xuberance]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

This kid must think World of Warcraft is hard too.

[handheld]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

This kid must think World of Warcraft is hard too.

World of Warcraft is difficult putting up with all those wow fanboys is hard work for any living creature lol.

ok now a bit off topic i have a quick question. I recently just beat tower knight and phalanx without dying( i know what your thinking but it took many a curse word and character restarts to do it) it was difficult and i finally managed to beat tower knight on my own and i still cant get to miralda. Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?

[Xuberance]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

This kid must think World of Warcraft is hard too.

World of Warcraft is difficult putting up with all those wow fanboys is hard work for any living creature lol.

ok now a bit off topic i have a quick question. I recently just beat tower knight and phalanx without dying( i know what your thinking but it took many a curse word and character restarts to do it) it was difficult and i finally managed to beat tower knight on my own and i still cant get to miralda. Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?

From what I understand, you need to defeat 3 demons(bosses) from Neutral WT in order to get Pure White WT

[handheld]

so i must beat 1-1 through 1-3 bosses to get pure white is there another way i can it or do fighting bosses from other levels also affect all world tendencies

[Xuberance]

so i must beat 1-1 through 1-3 bosses to get pure white is there another way i can it or do fighting bosses from other levels also affect all world tendencies

Each world has its own tendency.
Defeating Black Phantom NPCs give you a +3 modifier to that world's tendency. Defeating a Black Phantom PC gives you a +1 modifier(not sure about that).

[SasugaRIVAL]

@handheld

I've rerolled my main twice. The first one I had PWWT going into Phalanx (I have no idea how). The second time I beat Phalanx, Red Dragon, AND tower knight all without dying and STILL didn't have PWWT. My third and final version beat all three without dying and had PWWT until all my world tendencies got reset to Neutral for no reason.

Conclusion: World Tendency in this game is extremely ####ed. It changes randomly due to certain circumstances. To maintain world tendency you apparently need to play offline (which stops the bug according to some accounts), or go through great lengths to try to circumnavigate the innumerable scenarios that lead to an inevitable WT reset.

Like this weekend... I'm planning on doing Blue Phantom coop then suiciding til I get PBWT on Stonefang, killing BP Scivir, killing the primeval demon, defeating Flamelurker, going back to Scivir, finding keel smasher, going back to Scivir and killing him AGAIN - ALL OF THIS IN ONE PLAY SESSION WITHOUT QUITTING SO MY EFFING WT DOESN'T RESET ON ME AS SOON AS I SHUT OFF MY PS3.

[Karkarov]

Well one thing that helps is being sure to leave after each major change event. If you kill phalanx, leave, kill the dragon, leave, kill tower knight, leave, all without ever dieing you SHOULD have pure white world tendency.

[SasugaRIVAL]

Well one thing that helps is being sure to leave after each major change event. If you kill phalanx, leave, kill the dragon, leave, kill tower knight, leave, all without ever dieing you SHOULD have pure white world tendency.

I hear what your saying, but I did the same actions twice: Killed Phalanx, went to nexus, came back, kill dragon and tower knight, back to Nexus. In that order more or less (did go to 4-1 to get souls for arrows between phalanx and dragon).

One time I get PWWT the other I don't.

[Legendary]

@handheld

I've rerolled my main twice. The first one I had PWWT going into Phalanx (I have no idea how). The second time I beat Phalanx, Red Dragon, AND tower knight all without dying and STILL didn't have PWWT. My third and final version beat all three without dying and had PWWT until all my world tendencies got reset to Neutral for no reason.

Conclusion: World Tendency in this game is extremely ####ed. It changes randomly due to certain circumstances. To maintain world tendency you apparently need to play offline (which stops the bug according to some accounts), or go through great lengths to try to circumnavigate the innumerable scenarios that lead to an inevitable WT reset.


Why do people think the online reset to neutral is a bug?

http://www.demons-souls.com/wiki/

Online Tendency

During online play, tendency of other players affect the base world tendency of each area. If you find that the tendency is automatically shifting toward white or black every time you re-enter an area, that is the result of the base online tendency affecting your world tendency.

[Xuberance]

@handheld

I've rerolled my main twice. The first one I had PWWT going into Phalanx (I have no idea how). The second time I beat Phalanx, Red Dragon, AND tower knight all without dying and STILL didn't have PWWT. My third and final version beat all three without dying and had PWWT until all my world tendencies got reset to Neutral for no reason.

Conclusion: World Tendency in this game is extremely ####ed. It changes randomly due to certain circumstances. To maintain world tendency you apparently need to play offline (which stops the bug according to some accounts), or go through great lengths to try to circumnavigate the innumerable scenarios that lead to an inevitable WT reset.


Why do people think the online reset to neutral is a bug?

http://www.demons-souls.com/wiki/

Online Tendency

During online play, tendency of other players affect the base world tendency of each area. If you find that the tendency is automatically shifting toward white or black every time you re-enter an area, that is the result of the base online tendency affecting your world tendency.

The way that's worded... If the majority of the online players' games have black tendency for world 3, then every other player's WT (for world 3) will naturally shift towards black for playing in that world?

[Bacon Deity]

Hmm, something interesting happened today.

I go to a little game store everyday, and yesterday a dude bought Demon's Souls. Today, I come back and he's literally crying to the cashier that it's too hard and wants to exchange it for Uncharted 2.

I told my cashier friend to put a warning on the box; "The game is hard."

This kid must think World of Warcraft is hard too.

Wasn't a kid. Probably doesn't play WoW either.

[ddh4ms]

Umm from a personal experience.
1. My Stonefang tunnel was in Pure Black WT
2. I am in soul form then goes to Shrine of Storms and got Summoned as Phantom.
3. checked tendency of my Stonefang Tunnel and it was on White WT
4. Freaked out - then finished the Shrine of Storms (killed adjudicator)
5. ressurected (got stuck in the Shrine) - checked tendency - White WT
6. Freaked out - went suicide and got back to soul form - cant find my bloodsign - go to archstone then ported back to nexus
7. check the WT and my WT turned back to normal where the 'Stonefang WT is Pure Black'

[DarkoMaledictus]

Thanks for the insight, but this is the second time this morning I read someone saying the game isn't that hard without finishing the game. (The other was some guy promoting his blog.) Super Mario Bros 1-1 is very easy, doesn't mean the game is.

I ve finished it and its not so bad. There are alot of bosses you can just snipe with arrows without loosing any health yourself and a bit of farming goes a long way in this game. Now that said, game+ is another story... 1.1 on game+ was a cakewalk... then in other stages I keep getting one shot with the strongest armor and level 88. Yep its getting hard now ;p! Could probably remove the armor and it wouldn t make any difference besides some stats boosting... ;p

But first play was pretty good, a few deaths here and tehre but once you get some armor and some good weapons its all good!

[DarkoMaledictus]

ya, the way people talked it up i was expecting it to be way harder.......i was actually diasappointed, but im not gonna say i havnt died a good bit....hell i died like 6 times on the tower knight.....but honestly, half of them are because my guy wouldnt roll the direction i wanted him to and i got blasted......i hate the lock on feature, it screws me over more often than not like that, but when i dont use it i have no issues

but this is a GREAT GAME by far im soooooo glad i bought it

that being said i remade my guy and ive died 3 times so far and im at that place where those green things mine ore

edit.....i want end with a question, my first play though when i was trying to cross that bridge to get to the switch to open the door to the phalanx the dragon harrased me forever....when i remade my guy he was nowhere to be found till my way to the tower knight and i got all the treasure by the castle....why was he gone that time?

Wait until you get to game+ and game++.... your hardest fantaisies will be fufilled ;)!

[Chang]

One strategy I thought helps a lot is just to plop down a blue stone and get summoned. You can die all you want and not lose any of your souls while in someone elses world and get a preview of whats going to jump out from behind a corner and chop your head off. The only downside is guess would be the "D"'s you would get from the other members lol.

[FiOth]

It's not whether the game is unbeatable or not, it's all about the balance. Some parts in Ninja Gaiden Black (Master Ninja) were nearly unbeatalbe but there was a great deal of cheapness going on in the game. That's not the case with Demon's Souls from what I've seen so far. If you are careful and methodical you can make slow but sure progress, a huge plus in my book. This isn't the case with most games out there which people deem "hard" I'm afraid...

[HijiriOni]

I've never considered the game hard.

Gravity kills me more then anything else...the gravity in 2-2 is especially bad.

Outside that I die once to certain monsters and I figure out how to kill them afterwords...don't even change my gear just when I attack and with which weapon.

[rogerroger22]

Well seeing as this is supposed to be a modern game i figured a lobby or friend invites was a given...i didnt know this game has online play from year 2000.

When I was first reading up on the game, I didn't really 'get' how the online play worked.

Now that I have the game, and have played with the co-op mode, I think it is one of the best/most unique ways I've seen online play implemented in the game. It really feels as if it's part of the game-world and not just an 'add-on' and totally makes sense within the context and feel of the game.

This style of co-op wouldn't really work with other games, but i think how they've integrated it with the story and feel of the game is aces.

What I've really liked it for, is being able to join up as a blue phantom with other players to 'check out' a boss with less risk to myself - see how to defeat it, what the room looks like/etc, with the bonus of

- getting back to human form if you win w/o using up an item
- if you die, you dont lose your souls

Hell, just being able to re-visit a boss fight is kinda fun.


So far, this game isn't quite as hard as the 'hype' lead me up to believe just yet. I've cleared 1-1,1-2, 2-1, 3-1 and 4-1.

But, I can see how the next part is just going to get even harder - and I've been avoiding world 5 completely so far :P

This is probably my favorite PS3 game this year and it has consumed my past week after work and my entire weekend. Hell, wish I could stay in from work today and play it some more :P

[harlequ1n]

I've been reading a lot about how NG+ is a whole new level of difficulty and how even the strongest armour and stats won't prevent you from 1-hit deaths... so I've been thinking, is there any reason to go for a heavy armour slow character instead of a light sneaky one when all the protection souls can buy won't help me survive NG+?

[HijiriOni]

Well seeing as this is supposed to be a modern game i figured a lobby or friend invites was a given...i didnt know this game has online play from year 2000.

When I was first reading up on the game, I didn't really 'get' how the online play worked.

Now that I have the game, and have played with the co-op mode, I think it is one of the best/most unique ways I've seen online play implemented in the game. It really feels as if it's part of the game-world and not just an 'add-on' and totally makes sense within the context and feel of the game.

This style of co-op wouldn't really work with other games, but i think how they've integrated it with the story and feel of the game is aces.

What I've really liked it for, is being able to join up as a blue phantom with other players to 'check out' a boss with less risk to myself - see how to defeat it, what the room looks like/etc, with the bonus of

- getting back to human form if you win w/o using up an item
- if you die, you dont lose your souls

Hell, just being able to re-visit a boss fight is kinda fun.


So far, this game isn't quite as hard as the 'hype' lead me up to believe just yet. I've cleared 1-1,1-2, 2-1, 3-1 and 4-1.

But, I can see how the next part is just going to get even harder - and I've been avoiding world 5 completely so far :P

This is probably my favorite PS3 game this year and it has consumed my past week after work and my entire weekend. Hell, wish I could stay in from work today and play it some more :P

It's worse then 2000s co-op and muliplayer.
We had Diablo 2 and Starcraft back then and it was real easy to join games in those. Just create a game name and anyone can join. Create a game name with a password and /w (friendname) game name/pass

Another thing Diablo 2 handled better then this game was deaths. Here you die going back to your bloodstain you lose all the souls that were on it. Diablo 2 you just lost experiance and gold but all your gear remained on your corpse, and now they have 10 corpses allowed in it...kinda ridiculous but each one can recover experience. And lastly if you weren't awesome enough to recover your first body it appeared in town.

Then again in this all you risk losing is soul points which aren't hard to obtain and you don't lose any actual stats. Having 0 soul points when ya die basically means nothing.

[LordHelmet25]

ur not supposed to fight the red eyed night till u have reach area 1-4 really lol u have no reason to go over there until u get the key from ostrava

or you could just kill ostrava when you first meet him in 1-1 to get the key if you want to do that use backstabs on him to bring him down quickly then when you reach soul 30 level or higher you should be strong enough to go back and kill the red eyed knight but old king doran is another story i fought him for 30 min cause my weapons were still to weak so i just kept my distance and shot him with arrows till he keeled over

[Karkarov]

ur not supposed to fight the red eyed night till u have reach area 1-4 really lol u have no reason to go over there until u get the key from ostrava

or you could just kill ostrava when you first meet him in 1-1 to get the key if you want to do that use backstabs on him to bring him down quickly then when you reach soul 30 level or higher you should be strong enough to go back and kill the red eyed knight but old king doran is another story i fought him for 30 min cause my weapons were still to weak so i just kept my distance and shot him with arrows till he keeled over

Non spoiler board????? PS: killing ostrava is what lame chumps who have no skill in DS do. Get the key the right way or forever be a poser.

[Inner Turbulence]

It's really amazing that so many people do not get the point of this game.

The online features are incredibly intuitive and innovative, and they totally set the mood for the game.

There are parts in this game that have never been replicated on a console before. I wont go into details but lets just say that the online abilities in this particular aspect of the game are far more advanced than any other online console game. As a programmer, and a computer engineer it still baffles my mind as to how they make it work so smoothly.

The game is an absolute gem. It is simply unmatched anywhere in the industry. Games like this only come along once every few years, there is simply nothing in existence that can match this game.

The atmosphere, the environments, the desolation, the emotion, the characters, the depth of this barren world, the sorrow, the desperation, the struggle for just a tiny crack of light into the darkness that consumes the world is simply stunning, its gorgeous, it's beautiful, it's a masterful video game and an experience that simply cannot be missed for a core gamer.

People underestimate a lot about the game. The art direction, the music(simply amazing!) the variety in weapons and upgrades, the shocking amount of customization to characters.

The game is more RPG than any other game released in the last decade, do not knock it because You failed to put the effort in to find it.

The game will not hold your hand, it's brutally hard. Don't judge the game by 1-1, and don't judge the game if you use a guide.

Let's just say that some of these levels will take hours to beat without a guide or impressive luck, there is just an overall amazing package.

Selective co-op would ruin the game.
Selective pvp would ruin the game.
match making would ruin the game.

This is not a multi player game, it's a single player experience in which the essences of others enter, to enhance the experience, but you're not playing it for that reason.


You will never experience a game like this again. It's simply that good.

It's not for everyone, but it's just that good. It makes most rpgs look bad. Oblivion comes to mind as a game that gets completely decimated by demon's souls.

Thank you so much atlus for bringing it here. I hope you reship to sell more, your opening week was great!

[HijiriOni]

Killing Ostrava is the method you use if you want evil CT/WT

The Red Eyed knight is a joke...his weakness is gravity. I killed him SEVERAL times as a Knight at soul level 4 (knight starting soul level)

And no Selective Co-Op would not ruin the game. My complaints have always been "It's great for a Join Random Game feature but absolutely retarded when I just wish to play with my friends."

The game actually has built-in matchmaking. A lvl500 SL person cannot invade a person at SL40. It has a system to keep "Similiar levels" together for invading.

It actually has the same system to determine who you can and cannot invite.

As lvl80 I can't be invited to a lvl20s game to help them kill the tower knight.

[obie191970]

The Red Eyed knight is a joke...his weakness is gravity.

Bwuh HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[DarkoMaledictus]

Well seeing as this is supposed to be a modern game i figured a lobby or friend invites was a given...i didnt know this game has online play from year 2000.

When I was first reading up on the game, I didn't really 'get' how the online play worked.

Now that I have the game, and have played with the co-op mode, I think it is one of the best/most unique ways I've seen online play implemented in the game. It really feels as if it's part of the game-world and not just an 'add-on' and totally makes sense within the context and feel of the game.

This style of co-op wouldn't really work with other games, but i think how they've integrated it with the story and feel of the game is aces.

What I've really liked it for, is being able to join up as a blue phantom with other players to 'check out' a boss with less risk to myself - see how to defeat it, what the room looks like/etc, with the bonus of

- getting back to human form if you win w/o using up an item
- if you die, you dont lose your souls

Hell, just being able to re-visit a boss fight is kinda fun.


So far, this game isn't quite as hard as the 'hype' lead me up to believe just yet. I've cleared 1-1,1-2, 2-1, 3-1 and 4-1.

But, I can see how the next part is just going to get even harder - and I've been avoiding world 5 completely so far :P

This is probably my favorite PS3 game this year and it has consumed my past week after work and my entire weekend. Hell, wish I could stay in from work today and play it some more :P

It's worse then 2000s co-op and muliplayer.
We had Diablo 2 and Starcraft back then and it was real easy to join games in those. Just create a game name and anyone can join. Create a game name with a password and /w (friendname) game name/pass

Another thing Diablo 2 handled better then this game was deaths. Here you die going back to your bloodstain you lose all the souls that were on it. Diablo 2 you just lost experiance and gold but all your gear remained on your corpse, and now they have 10 corpses allowed in it...kinda ridiculous but each one can recover experience. And lastly if you weren't awesome enough to recover your first body it appeared in town.

Then again in this all you risk losing is soul points which aren't hard to obtain and you don't lose any actual stats. Having 0 soul points when ya die basically means nothing.

Then again Diablo 2 had harcore mode, you die its game over, all is lost. This game is a bit more forgiving than that lol ;)

[DarkoMaledictus]

It's really amazing that so many people do not get the point of this game.

The online features are incredibly intuitive and innovative, and they totally set the mood for the game.

There are parts in this game that have never been replicated on a console before. I wont go into details but lets just say that the online abilities in this particular aspect of the game are far more advanced than any other online console game. As a programmer, and a computer engineer it still baffles my mind as to how they make it work so smoothly.

The game is an absolute gem. It is simply unmatched anywhere in the industry. Games like this only come along once every few years, there is simply nothing in existence that can match this game.

The atmosphere, the environments, the desolation, the emotion, the characters, the depth of this barren world, the sorrow, the desperation, the struggle for just a tiny crack of light into the darkness that consumes the world is simply stunning, its gorgeous, it's beautiful, it's a masterful video game and an experience that simply cannot be missed for a core gamer.

People underestimate a lot about the game. The art direction, the music(simply amazing!) the variety in weapons and upgrades, the shocking amount of customization to characters.

The game is more RPG than any other game released in the last decade, do not knock it because You failed to put the effort in to find it.

The game will not hold your hand, it's brutally hard. Don't judge the game by 1-1, and don't judge the game if you use a guide.

Let's just say that some of these levels will take hours to beat without a guide or impressive luck, there is just an overall amazing package.

Selective co-op would ruin the game.
Selective pvp would ruin the game.
match making would ruin the game.

This is not a multi player game, it's a single player experience in which the essences of others enter, to enhance the experience, but you're not playing it for that reason.


You will never experience a game like this again. It's simply that good.

It's not for everyone, but it's just that good. It makes most rpgs look bad. Oblivion comes to mind as a game that gets completely decimated by demon's souls.

Thank you so much atlus for bringing it here. I hope you reship to sell more, your opening week was great!

You said it! This game is a beast, and perhaps the best RPG ever made! Persoanlly I have never liked a game more, I have layed a side every other game... heck I do not even care what gets released next, except for a sequel or some DLC for this game ;)!

I would call this game a single player MMO ;)! Its a contradiction but its what it feels like! Its what I always wanted World of warcraft to be... this game is pure art!

Thank you Fromsoftware for making this rare gem!

[HijiriOni]

Yeah, gameplay is completely awesome.

Multiplayer has some great/new/innovative features...but its features leave out all the ease and greatness of allready developed features...why couldn't we put in both? The new features don't counteract old things at all, and in fact would have been a welcome compliment to them. But stand alone their lacking some aspects I find preferable.

[Karkarov]

Because they detract from what they want the game to be maybe Hijiri? If you are a casual gamer stay away from anything made by FromSoftware they flat out aren't making games targetted to you and they don't really care if you don't like it. Why dont you instead ask yourself what happens to the random co op if we made it easy for anyone to only team with the people they wanted to? Good bye meeting new players! Good bye potential game community growth!

Meanwhile it is perfectly viable even somewhat easy to team with specific people with coordination and communication.

[Inner Turbulence]

Yeah, gameplay is completely awesome.

Multiplayer has some great/new/innovative features...but its features leave out all the ease and greatness of allready developed features...why couldn't we put in both? The new features don't counteract old things at all, and in fact would have been a welcome compliment to them. But stand alone their lacking some aspects I find preferable.

Again, the game might not be for you. You're not meant to play with your friends. You're supposed to be desolate, alone. You cannot play with people who are alive You are supposed to either blindly through your trust or not. This is a multi player game only in the sense that more than one person are playing it. The multiplayer is stream lined into the single player. what i mean is, there is not true multi player in this game.

You are not supposed to know anything about who you are playing with. the names are only added so that people can give rankings and memory in case someone is an ass.

It's not supposed to be easy, it's not supposed to be ease of multi player, you are NOT supposed to play this game with friends. you CAN if you want to, and it will be tough to set it up, but thats NOT the intention. Demon's souls is a single player game. You are alone in boletaria, the idea is that the fallen souls of other heroes can aid you, not them themselves.

Think of this, imagine you could easily select a player. Imagine if it had match making. Imagine the 12 year olds screaming over the microphone. It would ruin the game. Its a desolate land and you are alone. You do not play with others, you experience it with their souls, with their lost lives, but not them. (I mean, you do with them, but thats not the story of the game)


anyway, its hard to explain, but demons souls is a single player game, thats the only way i can put it

[KTA]

Selective co-op would ruin the game.
Selective pvp would ruin the game.
match making would ruin the game.

This is not a multi player game, it's a single player experience in which the essences of others enter, to enhance the experience, but you're not playing it for that reason.


I don't agree with this at all. I co op with buddies now via party chat on XBL while playing this, it's a lot more fun. I think it's awful not to have the option.

And for the bolded statement read the message when signing into the server... what you're saying is just not true. I think it's the only games weakness (lack of party feature). And the general lack of information that makes the wiki browsing essential is also a weakness.

Having said that I love this game.

[Sferzar]

The lack of "regular" co-op was most definitely an intended choice. Not really going to argue for this considering that the others have already laid the argument out.

I like it like this, and like many people have said, getting to co-op with a friend is not hard to set up. Probably takes 5 extra minutes to set it up.

[KTA]

The lack of "regular" co-op was most definitely an intended choice. Not really going to argue for this considering that the others have already laid the argument out.

Well what people need to accept is a lot of people do not like this, i'm fine with it. I think a party up option would be better.

The fact that you can summon help just makes more sense to have the option to party up. But I think a few things could improve the experience.

Lvl scaling: I'm lvl 182 atm, I haven't seen a blue stone that's not my friends since lvl 110. Why not have the option to revert to hosts level?

AND why can't I the host lay down my blue stone inviting fellas to co op with me when I start??? (possibly making you more suseptable to invasion as a balance).

And finally give us the option for a party up... and as a balance let dark souls invade as a party :) the chaos would be glorious.

Finally okay if you get hung up on "it's supposed to be this way" just realize it's not a solitary experience, not at all. So why not share with friends you know? It's really much more fun. No game is perfect, they may have chosen it to be this way. But me like many think it's a flaw and a mistake.

[KTA]

And this whole thing about humans can't talk to souls... what do we do the whole game in the nexus???

[GENERAL_DeeBlock]

my first time was as a temple night. i found it hard and died like 4 times because of the bridge part with the "you know what" tryin to cook ya. anyways, i found that the thief was the best class for me. i defeated the vanguard at the start and oo boy what you see after is crazy. anyways, i didnt die any times as a thief in 1-1. i found it easy and pretty cool that i was able to roll out the way of every attack and easily stab an enemy in the back. (good tip)

[Bacon Deity]

And this whole thing about humans can't talk to souls... what do we do the whole game in the nexus???

That's what I'm talking about (http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4591)

[Shimizoki]

I started as a thief and died a lot on 1-1, most of it was because I was getting used to the controls and would roll into pits or hit square to attack rather than R1. I did however beat the red-eye knight when on my second try. I lucked out and got a few good rolls in so that I got around him and backstabbed three-ish times in a row.

I agree with Inner Turbulence that this is a single player game... It had the ability to be multiplayer but it seems to have just fell through. I havnt seen a black phantom. I have never been summoned to another players world. Everyone spends the whole game being dead and it just defeats the purpose of the game.

[Bacon Deity]

I disagree with Inner Turbulence that this is a single player game... It has the ability to be multiplayer and it seems to have just felt awesome on my bosom.

I havnt seen a black phantom. I have never been summoned to another players world.

The bold is fixed.

In regards to the underlined, I have a feeling that;

a) You're doing it wrong.
b) You're not meeting the right conditions.
c) You need more desu, no exceptions.

[HijiriOni]

Well as of right now I only have 1 friend to play Demon's Souls with.
I met this friend through the blue soul sign summon and just started chatting with him/her (not sure) in game and asking if they had gotten certain items or done certain things.

Then just started showing them the places to get them.

Being able to invite my 1 friend, then take a random friend into levels would just be easier for me.

The blue soul sign is great for meeting new people, re-fighting boss fights, and stuff like that. But alone it's not easy to group with my friends. It's still do-able and telling me "It's not meant to be that way" is just a moot arguement as I can be completely selective and only play alone or with friends off my friends list...why make me jump through hoops to do it, apoligize to people who invite me to their game when my friend was trying to invite me, and go through all that hassle when it could have just had "Open session>Invite Friend>Play" on top of the blue soul sign?

I am definately on the vote that having team combat with like 4 Blue Souls Fighting 4 black souls would be awesome.

Then theres voice chat...honestly...this game really could use it, and for those who think it shouldn't have it. That's what we have a "Voice Chat Enabled/Disabled" option for, is that really that hard to do? Games dating back to the PS3s launch have that.

It's the systems lack of flexibility and options that I think need adjusting, not the systems themselves. Right now by themselves their basically a strict nazi regime placed in game that really really could have been done better.

On a final note if these systems had been in place to begin with would ANY of you say "I totally think I shouldn't be able to invite my friends" or "I think voice chat should be disabled completely without an On/Off option" answer honestly, as you KNOW you wouldn't care or want them removed if they were there from the outset.

[KTA]

Honestly I think the lack of party up features and streamlined online play is just a weakness of JP devs still.

It's an area that's lacking with them when looking at western games. People need to realize no game is perfect and it's fine to criticize this great game as it does have faults.

Namely co op or lack there of & voice chat. Reading the intro message on the server login tells me they did not want it to be a solitary experience at all. So enough of that.

[The EndlessInformant]

I know this is completely off topic. I haven't gotten the game but wish to. I love it from what I know, but, I'm curious about what exactly the customization system is.

[Shimizoki]

I disagree with Inner Turbulence that this is a single player game... It has the ability to be multiplayer and it seems to have just felt awesome on my bosom.

I havnt seen a black phantom. I have never been summoned to another players world.

The bold is fixed.

In regards to the underlined, I have a feeling that;

a) You're doing it wrong.
b) You're not meeting the right conditions.
c) You need more desu, no exceptions.

I think that made me laugh so hard that I wet myself a little...

ANYWAYS, I had my first encounter with both a black phantom and a co-op mode. I agree it was pretty cool, but it seems to still truly lack the multiplayer I was hoping for (I was gunning for an MMO).

I killed that black phantom too.. HAHA I AM VICTOR.

[Bacon Deity]

I know this is completely off topic. I haven't gotten the game but wish to. I love it from what I know, but, I'm curious about what exactly the customization system is.

Which customization? character? weapon? equipment? stats? etc?

[The EndlessInformant]

All customization.

[HijiriOni]

It's actually pretty good.

You can dual wield, use bows, use daggers, double-hand almost all weapons (including shields) and you can even use 2 shields, haven't seen it but you can.

Crossbows are overall the weakest weapons in the game only because you can't use them in a "Precision aiming style" like bows, and you have to reload after every shot.

As for character customization you have packages to start out with but are fully capable of becoming the other classes with just some grinding. You can also adjust the gender, and facial look. I haven't seen anything for adjusting weight or height though.

Oh another crazy fun detail...weapons which aren't humanly possible to weild in 1 hand can be...My character uses a large shield and 6 foot long sword.

[Buttons]

Finally okay if you get hung up on "it's supposed to be this way" just realize it's not a solitary experience, not at all. So why not share with friends you know? It's really much more fun. No game is perfect, they may have chosen it to be this way. But me like many think it's a flaw and a mistake.

Right. We'll see what your opinions amount to. Remember, anyone can buy a PS3 SDK.

[megasaur]

players can't handle demon souls cause they are soft. They want a hello kitty mmo with voice chat, emotes for cybering. They want little towns where they can flirt with other players. WELL THEY AREN"T GETTIN ANY OF THAT IN DEMON SOULS!!

[KTA]

Finally okay if you get hung up on "it's supposed to be this way" just realize it's not a solitary experience, not at all. So why not share with friends you know? It's really much more fun. No game is perfect, they may have chosen it to be this way. But me like many think it's a flaw and a mistake.

Right. We'll see what your opinions amount to. Remember, anyone can buy a PS3 SDK.

Read the message when logging into the server, it's not a solitary experience... it's a flaw. Games are allowed to have flaws, you guys are being a bit rabid about defending this game like it's perfect. It's great, but not perfect.

players can't handle demon souls cause they are soft. They want a hello kitty mmo with voice chat, emotes for cybering. They want little towns where they can flirt with other players. WELL THEY AREN"T GETTIN ANY OF THAT IN DEMON SOULS!!

lol this game is easy, it's a trail & error experience that's all. And most of the initial difficulty comes at you because there is so little information and the tutorial is bad.

Seriously why are you guys acting like this game is perfect?

[SasugaRIVAL]

I see where you're concerns with the lack of multiplayer features in DS are coming from, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a "weakness" of Japanese Devs. It's just "different" than what your used to.

Some games you could make the argument that JPN devs don't know how to do MP correctly (like Dirge of Cerberus if I remember that game correctly). A game may try to emulate or produce features and just fail.

With Demon's Souls I think FROM knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they created it. It wasn't a mistake or a lack of understanding on their part when they designed it like this. It's completely innovative and unlike anything that has been done before really. They had a very specific goal: to make the MP as integrated into the game world as possible in order to maintain the immersion into an environment, which they wanted to convey as very desolate and disconnected and lonely.

I think for the most part they succeeded.

Granted, it may not cater to your or much of America's tastes, but it is what it is.

[KTA]

I see where you're concerns with the lack of multiplayer features in DS are coming from, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a "weakness" of Japanese Devs. It's just "different" than what your used to.

I think as a whole they're behind when it comes to multiplayer gaming, and eventually they'll move up to where western devs are.

Different yes, the extra hassle to play with friends better? I think no, others may disagree and that's fine. But I am open to others opinions, however I don't see the revolution in server messages per se but the way they used them was new and engaging. The boss battle was cool to.

I would be very happy as a host if I could throw down my blue stone inviting ppl that could even say on the stone as a message: Need a tank, need a caster etc. and possibly mark an overall goal like destroy blue dragon, save ostravia etc.

Challenging black phantoms from the get go would be cool to, I haven't played with the red stone much yet... 2 trophies away from my platinum!!! damn you pure bladestone & marrow stone chunks!

[Shimizoki]

players can't handle demon souls cause they are soft. They want a hello kitty mmo with voice chat, emotes for cybering. They want little towns where they can flirt with other players. WELL THEY AREN"T GETTIN ANY OF THAT IN DEMON SOULS!!

Its not that people want a hello kitty mmo, its that we would like to be able to interact with players more... some way to talk to other players in game would be nice (if its there... I havn't found it) Its annoying being in someone's game and the person has no way of telling the other member that they are out of healing items, etc. It removes teamwork and strategy from the multi-player aspect of the game.


Granted, it may not cater to your or much of America's tastes, but it is what it is.

But, I'm American.. and the only person that matters... therefore they should make it to my taste xD. I understand though, this game was not made for America, and wasn't released here until WAAAY after it was in eastern countries. So I cant blame the game for not being EXACTLY what I want.

I see where you're concerns with the lack of multiplayer features in DS are coming from, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a "weakness" of Japanese Devs. It's just "different" than what your used to.

No, Its a weakness.


I would be very happy as a host if I could throw down my blue stone inviting ppl that could even say on the stone as a message: Need a tank, need a caster etc. and possibly mark an overall goal like destroy blue dragon, save ostravia etc.


I agree, to an extent. It would be nice to have a party up feature rather than what there is now. And when coupled with an ability to talk in game it would make it tremendously more multi-player oriented.

BTW, Concept of Black Phantoms > Awesome

[Karkarov]

Just to correct a few of you who seem to have very wrong ideas about multiplayer as a whole.

1: Asia is light years ahead of america in multiplayer. Who do you think invented the first REAL mmo? Koreans.

2: Who came up with the concept of networked handhelds with games like Monster Hunter? I can tell you it wasn't an American company.

3: Gaming online with multiple players had been going on in Asia in many forms long before it became popular in America. That is a fact.

4: The only thing America pioneered was the online FPS game. Go figure.

[Dominions]

Just to correct a few of you who seem to have very wrong ideas about multiplayer as a whole.

1: Asia is light years ahead of america in multiplayer. Who do you think invented the first REAL mmo?

Does Ultima Online somehow not count? Free-to-play MUDs? If you're thinking of a specific game, name it.

2: Who came up with the concept of networked handhelds with games like Monster Hunter?

uh lol couldn't you play vs other people in Pokemon for Game Boy? Still, point in Japan's favor. They've always been big on portable devices (e.g. Sony inventing portable music players)

3: Gaming online with multiple players had been going on in Asia in many forms long before it became popular in America. That is a fact.

I seeeeeeeeeeriously doubt that. Like the main thing I did with my 300-baud modem was post on other kids' BBSes and trade turns in Space Wars or similar games.

4: The only thing America pioneered was the online FPS game. Go figure.

And real-time strategy games. And turn-based fantasy RPGs. And cartoons.
All rabidly gobbled up by Japanese audiences, remade in their own image (or not, see the absurd level of poplularity Starcraft enjoys in Korea), and regurgitated back into the mouths of a younger generation of westerners who think it's awesome because it's 'foriegn'.

[Karkarov]

Just to correct a few of you who seem to have very wrong ideas about multiplayer as a whole.

1: Asia is light years ahead of america in multiplayer. Who do you think invented the first REAL mmo?

Does Ultima Online somehow not count? Free-to-play MUDs? If you're thinking of a specific game, name it.

You mean the game Richard Garriot based on Korean MMO's? Do your homework nuff said.

2: Who came up with the concept of networked handhelds with games like Monster Hunter?

uh lol couldn't you play vs other people in Pokemon for Game Boy? Still, point in Japan's favor. They've always been big on portable devices (e.g. Sony inventing portable music players)

So you agree with my point????

3: Gaming online with multiple players had been going on in Asia in many forms long before it became popular in America. That is a fact.

I seeeeeeeeeeriously doubt that. Like the main thing I did with my 300-baud modem was post on other kids' BBSes and trade turns in Space Wars or similar games.

I don't. Cell phone gaming, first in asia. Handheld gaming, first in asia. Gaming consoles to begin with, first in asia. Computers were really started off by companies in America though this is true.

4: The only thing America pioneered was the online FPS game. Go figure.

And real-time strategy games. And turn-based fantasy RPGs. And cartoons.
All rabidly gobbled up by Japanese audiences, remade in their own image (or not, see the absurd level of poplularity Starcraft enjoys in Korea), and regurgitated back into the mouths of a younger generation of westerners who think it's awesome because it's 'foriegn'.

Please god tell me you don't think cartoons and turn based RPG's were invented in america? Maybe if you count things like pen and paper gaming but cartoons came into existence in america and japan at roughly the same time. Walt Disney even admitted to being highly influenced by early japanese animation. Regardless I am talking about multiplayer gaming in electronic formats. I admit games like starcraft are american invention though, and it is pathetic how popular it is in korea. Still multiplayer gaming existed before then, including true graphical mmo's.

[DirewolfX]

(Not the original person who replied to you, but chiming in anyway)

Just to correct a few of you who seem to have very wrong ideas about multiplayer as a whole.

1: Asia is light years ahead of america in multiplayer. Who do you think invented the first REAL mmo?

Does Ultima Online somehow not count? Free-to-play MUDs? If you're thinking of a specific game, name it.

You mean the game Richard Garriot based on Korean MMO's? Do your homework nuff said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_MMORPGs

Can you name a Korean MMO earlier than Nexus? The original Neverwinter Nights trumps that by about 5 years, if Wikipedia is to be trusted. Additionally, several early Western MMOs came out at roughly the same time as Nexus.

Also, MUDs predated any Asian MMO by about a decade and were a Western invention (primarily British). I do recall some of my Asian friends mentioning that Chinese (and presumably other Asian language) MUDs do exist, but I highly suspect they came much later, due to the difficulties involved in handling their more complex characters. If anyone can shed more light on this, I'd be curious to hear about it.

2: Who came up with the concept of networked handhelds with games like Monster Hunter?

uh lol couldn't you play vs other people in Pokemon for Game Boy? Still, point in Japan's favor. They've always been big on portable devices (e.g. Sony inventing portable music players)

So you agree with my point????

I don't think anybody in their right mind is going to deny that Asia is light years ahead in portable electronics.

3: Gaming online with multiple players had been going on in Asia in many forms long before it became popular in America. That is a fact.

I seeeeeeeeeeriously doubt that. Like the main thing I did with my 300-baud modem was post on other kids' BBSes and trade turns in Space Wars or similar games.

I don't. Cell phone gaming, first in asia. Handheld gaming, first in asia. Gaming consoles to begin with, first in asia. Computers were really started off by companies in America though this is true.

Cell phones and hand held game devices are much more recent than MUDs and BBSes, but I do wonder how popular those same activities were in Asia at the same time. I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case for multiplayer gaming being more popular first in either Western or Eastern gaming traditions.

4: The only thing America pioneered was the online FPS game. Go figure.

And real-time strategy games. And turn-based fantasy RPGs. And cartoons.
All rabidly gobbled up by Japanese audiences, remade in their own image (or not, see the absurd level of poplularity Starcraft enjoys in Korea), and regurgitated back into the mouths of a younger generation of westerners who think it's awesome because it's 'foriegn'.

Please god tell me you don't think cartoons and turn based RPG's were invented in america? Maybe if you count things like pen and paper gaming but cartoons came into existence in america and japan at roughly the same time. Walt Disney even admitted to being highly influenced by early japanese animation. Regardless I am talking about multiplayer gaming in electronic formats. I admit games like starcraft are american invention though, and it is pathetic how popular it is in korea. Still multiplayer gaming existed before then, including true graphical mmo's.

For Turn-based RPGs, this is going to be admittedly a bit of a shoddy research job, but the earliest Japanese ones I can think of are Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy released in the mid-80s versus Wizardry released in 81. I'm sure the history of the genre in both regions goes back further than that, though. (And then we could go back to Pen and Paper RPGs, which is a whole different history).

For Cartoons, the earliest primitive example I could find was some experimentation done in China in 180 AD on something called a Zoetrope. Modern animation appears to have been pioneered in France. Disney itself absolutely predates Japanese anime. The first animation with Mickey Mouse was 1928, which predates the first Japanese anime, which was produced in 1945 as wartime propaganda.


Really though, I don't think whether or not Asians or Westerners were into multiplayer gaming first is relevant to the main argument about whether the multiplayer in Demon's Souls is flawed. I personally believe that the multiplayer in Demon's Souls is intentionally the way it is to increase the immersion and accentuate the atmosphere of loneliness and desolation. The game would be a lot less tense if you could just hop into an online lobby and meet a buddy or two and meet up for some demon tag teaming.

As to whether Asian game developers are "behind" Western developers when it comes to multiplayer features, I think that's a poor assertion. Games like the original Phantasy Star Online and the Monster Hunter series prove that Asian developers know how to put together some great multiplayer experiences. I think the difference is all about the market. I suspect the Asian gamer (outside the MMO and fighting game genres) is looking mostly for a deep single player experience, and so the Asian developers are catering to those tastes and not spending as many resources on multiplayer aspects. Meanwhile, Western gamers really love their multiplayer, so we often end up with really involved multiplayer affairs sometimes at the cost of shoddy single player campaigns (there's a cost to that great multiplayer).

I will say this as a ding against Asian game developers though: For all the MMOs they produce, I have yet to play one (other than perhaps FFXI) with a good PvE experience that goes beyond grinding and has deep endgame content. If anyone can name some, I'd love to hear about them. To be fair, very few Western developers have managed to accomplish this feat either, and many AAA Western MMOs fell flat on their face after a while (read: Age of Conan).

[Karkarov]

Nexus was the first MMO to my knowledge (but I may be wrong) you need to understand what that means when I say it though. Meridian 59 (just an example) is not an MMO it is a MUD. A MUD as you pbviously know is nothing but a glorified chat room for all intents and purposes. An MMO as you probably know is a fully graphical game with an actual world you can see and interact with in a real way, it also tends to have a helluva lot more players than a MUD. Most people consider the MMO the birth of the "dead korean kid who forgot to eat" so it is safe to say it was the real innovator here.

The point of my arguement, to make a long story short, is that Asian developers are not behind on multiplayer in any respect. The thing is From knows people would have liked these things but they are the kind of company that creates a design idea and builds to suit it. If they think traditional multiplayer liked by westerners hinders the design they arent putting it in no matter how many people would "like it".

[DeBurgo]

Nexus was the first MMO to my knowledge (but I may be wrong) you need to understand what that means when I say it though. Meridian 59 (just an example) is not an MMO it is a MUD. A MUD as you pbviously know is nothing but a glorified chat room for all intents and purposes. An MMO as you probably know is a fully graphical game with an actual world you can see and interact with in a real way, it also tends to have a helluva lot more players than a MUD. Most people consider the MMO the birth of the "dead korean kid who forgot to eat" so it is safe to say it was the real innovator here.Just to jump in here but, uhh, what? How is Meridian 59 not an MMO? It had a 3d graphical engine for pete's sake, what sort of bizarre distinction are you making here?

Also calling MUDs "glorified chat rooms" kind of does a disservice to MUDs, but that's a different topic altogether.

edit: okay, if a MUD is a glorified chat room what on earth is a text adventure? A glorified word processor?
The point of my arguement, to make a long story short, is that Asian developers are not behind on multiplayer in any respect. The thing is From knows people would have liked these things but they are the kind of company that creates a design idea and builds to suit it. If they think traditional multiplayer liked by westerners hinders the design they arent putting it in no matter how many people would "like it".
I enjoy the game's design decisions and all, and I'm not necessarily saying they SHOULD appeal to the western market, but to suggest they made those design decisions in some kind of active disregard for western players is a little ridiculous. I mean, maybe it's just the way you phrased it in response to the other guy, but that is kind of what it sounds like you're saying.

[HijiriOni]

Strayed way off topic haha.

I've allready said my complaints.
The multiplayer (allthough does have a purpose, it's just really weak) could have been greatly improved on with a few slight adjustments and NOT ONE OF YOU would request it be changed had it been that way from the release. I gurantee not ONE of you would ask for it to be changed if it was designed that way to begin with.

Voice Chat=On/Off option would be great, as we circument "Lack of Communication" allready
Friend Invites=Due to the methods used in circumventing voice chat we circument the lack of friend invites with hassle and communication.

The systems are self defeating, why make people hassle over them when all that's needed is an on/off option?

I do think there great systems for what they do, just systems that could greatly improve with features that have been around for quite some time.

I also want any replies to this to answer the question "Would you really want friend invites and voice chat on/off removed if they had been there from the release or would you accept it like you have been doing with it's current system?"

[Virodeath]

Responding to the original topic of the thread (sorry haven't read through the pages of posts) I have to say after playing through on a second char. now the original poster was kinda right. The game isn't extremely hard. You just have to use your head and not take it on like a mindless hack-n-slash or you will get penalized big time and have to do some soul recovery.

When you first start playing you don't know what to expect or what mobs atk patterns are but once you see the patterns and learn how to play defensively against the AI moving around and not dying becomes a LOT easier!

Ofcoarse PvP is a whole different animal but I am talking about the Single Player play through. All in all though, this is one of the best games I have played.

Viro

[Bearcut]

Lol Viro this thread is getting out of hand. Thanks for staying on task.

[megasaur]

stop complaining demon souls is just like any other game you have to figure out the game mechanics once you get that it is easy.

[DeBurgo]

Lol Viro this thread is getting out of hand. Thanks for staying on task.
Sorry for contributing to that :(

I'd like to add my voice to saying the game isn't that hard either. I mean, I think this is a good thing, because it means the game won't be as niche and should have a wider appeal.

On the other hand though I don't know how else you could have gotten a wider audience to swallow the game's central game mechanic without exaggerating the difficulty. People have these weird and rigid expectations on how games should be, mechanically, and I think that by spinning an unusual (for western audiences) bunch of game mechanics into a plus by selling it as an ultra-hard experience might have been the only way to catch the large audience the game clearly deserves. Kind of like some sort of weird preemptive reverse psychology thing. Like instead of saying "No it's got this game mechanic most people normally hate but you'll love it!" you say, "No, man, you wouldn't like it, it's awesome but it's too hardcore for you"