Question about magic arrows

[Jorlen]

Do they work?

I'm talking about fire arrows, toad eye arrows, arrows that have fire or magic damage to them.

I've tried them on several different enemy types and most of the time they only do 4-10 more damage than a regular arrow would.

Am I missing something?

[ZomDizae]

Do they work?

I'm talking about fire arrows, toad eye arrows, arrows that have fire or magic damage to them.

I've tried them on several different enemy types and most of the time they only do 4-10 more damage than a regular arrow would.

Am I missing something?
I can confirm that fire arrows DO work, especially if coupled with the Lava Bow.
As for toad eye arrows, they're a mystery to me too, really, I don't seem to get more damage out than, say, a heavy arrow. I don't use them anymore.

[Jorlen]

Do they work?

I'm talking about fire arrows, toad eye arrows, arrows that have fire or magic damage to them.

I've tried them on several different enemy types and most of the time they only do 4-10 more damage than a regular arrow would.

Am I missing something?
I can confirm that fire arrows DO work, especially if coupled with the Lava Bow.
As for toad eye arrows, they're a mystery to me too, really, I don't seem to get more damage out than, say, a heavy arrow. I don't use them anymore.

So equipping a fire arrow in the lava bow = >damage than lava bow with heavy arrow? I thought I tried that and didn't notice a difference.

I'm thinking toad-eye arrows may be broken, or there's a really good question waiting to be answered. I've tried them out on enemies with no magical resistances, even weak to magic, and they do absolutely jack-&#^#.

Considering their price and magic damage they should be doing way more damage than a normal arrow.

[CUR715]

In all my time playing this, i still haven't figured Bow & Arrows out yet. It's probably because i never upgrade my Dexterity enough to get the best out of them.

I do know that i never bother with the Lava Bow - its fiery stun might be useful on Geckos, but the power sucks! The Vicious upgrade requires sourcing of Spider stones, which are more hassle than they're worth - the added range is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I normally just build a Compound Long Bow +10, and use Hard Arrows. On the few occassions you actually do want it handy, it does the job just fine.

All that said, there was this one Blue Phantom i summoned, who was getting 1000+ damage from each arrow, and i've got no idea how! He wasn't using the Clever Rats Ring to boost power, because his health was full, and he definitely wasn't using the White Bow. God only knows how!?

[ZomDizae]

I seriously don't have a clue what those super-hunters do to have such a high damage output with bows, they "crossed" my way more than once. And pretty much obliterated me with their arrows. -_-

Next time I see one I'll write him a message...


BTW. I second the Compound Long Bow +10 suggestion, easy to build, simple and effective.

[Jorlen]

What makes the vicious +5 long bow so powerful and, consequently, a pain in the butt to farm for is this:

Viscous Compound Long Bow +5 68/0 E/S/-/-

Notice the S? It's in the dexterity slot. That means if you're investing heavily in your DEX stat, S is the highest possible bonus you'll get from that stat. And trust me, it makes a big difference if you're build is going towards that.

However, yes I fully agree that a +10 compound long bow is good for a bow as a side-arm. It's cheap on stats. If you happen to have 20 str 24 dex the white bow is fairly decent as well when upgraded with colorless demon's souls.

Getting back on subject, I would love to get an official response from ATLUS regarding the arrow thing. There is something amiss, I'm almost sure of it, and unfortunately there is no way to contact From Software due to their site being exclusively in Japanese :(

[CUR715]

Yup, i'm aware of the added parameters of the Vicious path, but like i said; i've never upgraded my dexterity high enough to get any decent damage bonus.

In fact, of all my nine characters, only once did i upgrade the Dex high enough to use the White Bow (just because i was curious), and that ended up being a total disappointment.

Back on topic: Toad-Eye Arrows are a complete mystery to me. It says 150 Mag Dmg, but they seem weaker than even bog-standard arrows. Oh well.

[Eternal Sin]

I'll take a guess and say that Toad-Eye arrows' damage scales with your magic and/or faith stat. I have no basis for this assumption.

[ZomDizae]

@Jochen
Just for corrections' sake, you don't need 30 STR for the whitebow; remember? holding a weapon 2 handed gives you a 1.5x to strength, so you need only a STR of 20 to use the bow without penalty.

[ZomDizae]

I'll take a guess and say that Toad-Eye arrows' damage scales with your magic and/or faith stat. I have no basis for this assumption.
4 of my 8 characters have *very* high magic stats and still nothing, Toad-Eye is broken.

[Karkarov]

Since we are talking about damage scaling with stats here I am curious... whats everyones feelings on the blueblood? It scales with the normal stats at pretty low rates but I understand it is also modded by luck. If so is it a "high" mod like an S rank or something more normal?

[Jorlen]

Since we are talking about damage scaling with stats here I am curious... whats everyones feelings on the blueblood? It scales with the normal stats at pretty low rates but I understand it is also modded by luck. If so is it a "high" mod like an S rank or something more normal?

Blueblood, being one of my current favorites, is a bit of an enigma.

Apparently it's physical damage scales with luck, but I don't think anyone's actually calculated it.

The wiki shows it's AddedParams as D/-/E/E but it also states that its magic damage bonus (as the blade does both magic/physical damage) comes from Faith alone. That betrays it's AddedParams. D/-/E/E would mean it receives a bonus from Strength (for physical) and E/E for both faith AND magic.

As far as if luck even has any effect, it would be easy to test by observing the physical bonus and then raising luck by a point to see it's increase.

I may test this out tonight on one of my retired characters :)

[Jorlen]

@Jochen
Just for corrections' sake, you don't need 30 STR for the whitebow; remember? holding a weapon 2 handed gives you a 1.5x to strength, so you need only a STR of 20 to use the bow without penalty.

Oh yeah I always forget about that - 20 str you need (1.5 because you wield it two handed). Thanks, I'll correct my previous post :)

And Zom, I agree Toad-Eye is broken. Imagine if it wasn't? It would almost make a mostly-pure bow user build viable.

[Eternal Sin]

Blueblood, being one of my current favorites, is a bit of an enigma.

Apparently it's physical damage scales with luck, but I don't think anyone's actually calculated it.

The wiki shows it's AddedParams as D/-/E/E but it also states that its magic damage bonus (as the blade does both magic/physical damage) comes from Faith alone. That betrays it's AddedParams. D/-/E/E would mean it receives a bonus from Strength (for physical) and E/E for both faith AND magic.

As far as if luck even has any effect, it would be easy to test by observing the physical bonus and then raising luck by a point to see it's increase.

I may test this out tonight on one of my retired characters :)

If you could calculate the damage boosted by luck, that would be awesome. Don't forget to also post it on wiki if you do.

[Karkarov]

In many ways I think the wiki needs work if not replaced. Alot of very basic info is missing or just plain wrong. Read the class entry for Temple knight if you need an example.

[ZomDizae]

Since we are talking about damage scaling with stats here I am curious... whats everyones feelings on the blueblood? It scales with the normal stats at pretty low rates but I understand it is also modded by luck. If so is it a "high" mod like an S rank or something more normal?

Blueblood, being one of my current favorites, is a bit of an enigma.

Apparently it's physical damage scales with luck, but I don't think anyone's actually calculated it.

The wiki shows it's AddedParams as D/-/E/E but it also states that its magic damage bonus (as the blade does both magic/physical damage) comes from Faith alone. That betrays it's AddedParams. D/-/E/E would mean it receives a bonus from Strength (for physical) and E/E for both faith AND magic.

As far as if luck even has any effect, it would be easy to test by observing the physical bonus and then raising luck by a point to see it's increase.

I may test this out tonight on one of my retired characters :)
I can confirm that luck has a big effect on its attack power; It's one of my favorite straight swords and I used it day one, that character's luck stat is 40 IIRC.
Also, according to some Japanese players, the Blueblood sword's hidden luck rating works the same as if it had an "A" in STR. If that's only an assumption or properly tested, I do not know. I remember landing in some random Japanese Demon's Souls BBS where this was discussed way back before the Asian versions release. It's actually one of the reasons why my very first character still uses that sword.

[Jorlen]

Since we are talking about damage scaling with stats here I am curious... whats everyones feelings on the blueblood? It scales with the normal stats at pretty low rates but I understand it is also modded by luck. If so is it a "high" mod like an S rank or something more normal?

Blueblood, being one of my current favorites, is a bit of an enigma.

Apparently it's physical damage scales with luck, but I don't think anyone's actually calculated it.

The wiki shows it's AddedParams as D/-/E/E but it also states that its magic damage bonus (as the blade does both magic/physical damage) comes from Faith alone. That betrays it's AddedParams. D/-/E/E would mean it receives a bonus from Strength (for physical) and E/E for both faith AND magic.

As far as if luck even has any effect, it would be easy to test by observing the physical bonus and then raising luck by a point to see it's increase.

I may test this out tonight on one of my retired characters :)
I can confirm that luck has a big effect on its attack power; It's one of my favorite straight swords and I used it day one, that character's luck stat is 40 IIRC.
Also, according to some Japanese players, the Blueblood sword's hidden luck rating works the same as if it had an "A" in STR. If that's only an assumption or properly tested, I do not know. I remember landing in some random Japanese Demon's Souls BBS where this was discussed way back before the Asian versions release. It's actually one of the reasons why my very first character still uses that sword.

Wow, that's really good info. I love the blueblood sword and you've now just given me a good reason to raise luck. I have a few weapons on me at all times, but the blueblood is the one I use the most as my generic weapon.

If it does have an A for luck as added param for physical, it should be very noticeable when raising luck. Can't wait to test this out :)

[ZomDizae]

Just checked the Japanese wiki(god that wiki is *so* much better than ours -_-)
Anyways: according to that wiki for every +1 to luck, it's possible to get a 1-2 increase in attack power, increase your luck by 5 and you get a +8 increase to attack power. The wiki also states that after a 30-40 luck stat the increase will slowly begin to vanish. Let's just say that increasing your luck stat above 35 is not very useful for the Blueblood sword.

Also, to not derail the thread completely, I'll go check if there's something about arrows. :D


EDIT: Hmmm...Jorlen can you try out the Toad eye arrows with the Lava Bow? I'll do that later too with one of my mages.

[Karkarov]

Just checked the Japanese wiki(god that wiki is *so* much better than ours -_-)
Anyways: according to that wiki for every +1 to luck, it's possible to get a 1-2 increase in attack power, increase your luck by 5 and you get a +8 increase to attack power. The wiki also states that after a 30-40 luck stat the increase will slowly begin to vanish. Let's just say that increasing your luck stat above 35 is not very useful for the Blueblood sword.


Nice info, just the kind of answer I was looking for. I have a translated version of the japanese wiki bookmarked but it is very.... painful to read. If you get my meaning :/

[Jorlen]

Just checked the Japanese wiki(god that wiki is *so* much better than ours -_-)
Anyways: according to that wiki for every +1 to luck, it's possible to get a 1-2 increase in attack power, increase your luck by 5 and you get a +8 increase to attack power. The wiki also states that after a 30-40 luck stat the increase will slowly begin to vanish. Let's just say that increasing your luck stat above 35 is not very useful for the Blueblood sword.

Also, to not derail the thread completely, I'll go check if there's something about arrows. :D


EDIT: Hmmm...Jorlen can you try out the Toad eye arrows with the Lava Bow? I'll do that later too with one of my mages.

How are you checking the Japanese wiki? Are you translating the page or do you read/write/speak Japanese? If you're translating toss us the wiki link please :)

I may have deleted my character that had a firebow (4 slots is teh suk) but I'll try it out and post my findings if I still have it.

[ZomDizae]

How are you checking the Japanese wiki? Are you translating the page or do you read/write/speak Japanese? If you're translating toss us the wiki link please :)
A mix of both, my basic Kanji knowledge isn't nearly enough to understand most of the stuff written in there so I occasionally use babelfish for the more complicated Kanji. Not very accurate but for some minor stuff it works.

Here's the link: http://wiki.livedoor.jp/demons_souls/

[ZomDizae]

Heh, just messed around a bit with one of my mages and bows n' arrows... Very surprising results, looks like those under the right conditions those Toad-eye arrows aren't as useless as I thought. Well, see for yourselves:

Mage is S.lvl 172: STR 20, DEX 20, MAGIC 64.
Target is 1-1 NG+++ Slave Soldier (first enemies)

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/ZomDizae/DSbowsarrows.jpg

Too bad they're expensive -_-


EDIT: Sorry for double post

[Karkarov]

Surprised the lava bow out performed the other two, by a pure numbers game it really shouldn't have. Of course you have girly dex :)

[ZomDizae]

No need for dex on a pure mage ;)
but yeah, this guy can't even equip the White bow, that's why it's not on the list.

[CUR715]

Some interesting results there. Guess Toad-Eyes aren't as bad we first thought.

Inspired by this thread and my lack of Dexterity loving, i started a new character last night. Rocking the White Bow at soul level 25! Woop!

Based on added parameters, my best upgrade paths seem to be; Sharp (doh! headslap), Tearing, and Quality.

I'm thinking: Sharp Paring Dagger (to work on my riposte), Tearing Sais and Quality Killij.

Lace all those with a bit of Cursed Weapon, and i should laughing. :D

[Eskol]

Japanese Wiki being translated by babelfish, it is difficult sometimes to read, but mostly it is understandable.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.livedoor.jp%2Fdemons_souls %2F&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

p.s. It may not translate everypage

[CUR715]

So, my Dex only character has given me some surprising results; mainly that with enough dex (i.e. 40) the Vicous Compound Long Bow +5, out-performs the White Bow +5 (which i just gave away to some lucky Blue Phantom).

The Lava Bow is lame in comparison, and Toad-Eye Arrows are inferior to regular Arrows. I know this because i accidentily swiped Patches while i was attempting to kill one of the Bear Bugs in 2-2. Bye-bye Hard Arrows for this run. Bloody typcial! :(

[ZomDizae]

Interesting stuff there Curtis;

So, it lookes like thief, wanderer and any other high DEX class should use Viscous Compound Long Bow +5 & Heavy Arrows for best results, while mages or any other high magic class are better off with Lava Bow & Toad Eye Arrows (except in 4-x).

Looks like my wanderer will get a new bow... (he is using a white bow +5 right now)

[Karkarov]

Well I read on the wiki I believe testing by high level players has proven that weapons with S ratings in stat bonuses in the end provide the best damage in the game. So I guess the lesson here is decide what kind of stats you want your toon to stack and find the weapons that scale best off of them. Or I suppose you could also build based around a weapon if there was one you really liked....

[ZomDizae]

Karkarov, that was obvious from the beginning and that's one of the few negative points I have for the English wiki: wasting time on testing obvious stuff instead of trying to figure out the undocumented...

However, bows are different because you have to find out how much the damage drop over the arrow's traveling distance affects your performance.

Another mention goes to the game's internal stat bonus mechanic: even if the game shows you the letters E,D,C,B,S, internally it's calculated with numbers, meaning, a D is not necessarily equal a D. The game shows you this with its color coding; better stats show up blue, while worse ones show up red. Now, for example, if you have say the white bow +1 equipped(E/D/0/0) and upgrade it to +2, it's still (E/D/0/0) but the D shows up blue, meaning it's a better D.
Mind you, don't take this too seriously - the damage difference is barely noticeable(if at all).

[Jorlen]

So, my Dex only character has given me some surprising results; mainly that with enough dex (i.e. 40) the Vicous Compound Long Bow +5, out-performs the White Bow +5 (which i just gave away to some lucky Blue Phantom).

The Lava Bow is lame in comparison, and Toad-Eye Arrows are inferior to regular Arrows. I know this because i accidentily swiped Patches while i was attempting to kill one of the Bear Bugs in 2-2. Bye-bye Hard Arrows for this run. Bloody typcial! :(

Hold PS3 button and quit the game if you ever accidently hit an NPC. For some reason, and I think it may be on purpose, the game doesn't save the state if you aggro a friendly; only if you kill him/her. If you quit the game, you can save yourself the aggravation. I don't consider this cheating because most of the time I do it by accident (putting PS3 controller down and I slash a vendor in nexus or something stupid like that).

Very interesting stats on the arrows. Interesting that the toad-eye is only better when used with the lava bow. I guess I'll stick with white bow or vicious and hard arrows.

[CUR715]

Hold PS3 button and quit the game if you ever accidently hit an NPC. For some reason, and I think it may be on purpose, the game doesn't save the state if you aggro a friendly; only if you kill him/her. If you quit the game, you can save yourself the aggravation. I don't consider this cheating because most of the time I do it by accident (putting PS3 controller down and I slash a vendor in nexus or something stupid like that).


I did not know this. Thanks! :D

I've moved onto NG++ now, so i'm cool again.

Poor old Thomas has had one too many accidental swipes when i've put the pad down and R2 gets pressed. Haha! Bless him.

[Karkarov]

Karkarov, that was obvious from the beginning and that's one of the few negative points I have for the English wiki: wasting time on testing obvious stuff instead of trying to figure out the undocumented...


I don't know that it was "obvious" per se but I think you will find me in agreement that the American Wiki needs a lot of help. Truthfully it is my hope that when the game launches the community will come together a bit and some industrious folks will build a new site from the ground up with a considerably better look and superior info/organization.

[Eternal Sin]

Ah before we skip on to another topic...

The Lava bow is NOT as horrible as it looks. I made a new char (archer) and completed 1-1, 2-1, 2-2 as thief and got my Lava bow quickly. I find with heavy arrows on first time through (no NG+) the Lava bow deals a large amount of damage. It's really only good for your first run through the game, maybe the second.

[Jorlen]

Ah before we skip on to another topic...

The Lava bow is NOT as horrible as it looks. I made a new char (archer) and completed 1-1, 2-1, 2-2 as thief and got my Lava bow quickly. I find with heavy arrows on first time through (no NG+) the Lava bow deals a large amount of damage. It's really only good for your first run through the game, maybe the second.

I agree. The lava bow is awesome for the first playthrough. In NG+ it seems as though the fire portion of it is mostly resisted, I guess enemies get a huge bonus to fire resist/magic resist.

[Quig]

I find this tread very interesting and informative, yet disappointing. I will stop finding it disappointing next week, when I get the game and start playing. I will definitely be referring to this thread when I start my game since I prefer to use bows and short swords in combat. Hopefully, the Toad Eye arrow mystery gets cleared up soon. I know I am interested in finding out what they are good for.

[ZomDizae]

I find this tread very interesting and informative, yet disappointing. I will stop finding it disappointing next week, when I get the game and start playing. I will definitely be referring to this thread when I start my game since I prefer to use bows and short swords in combat. Hopefully, the Toad Eye arrow mystery gets cleared up soon. I know I am interested in finding out what they are good for.
Uhm...actually...we already "cleared up the toad eye arrow mistery" :)

Toad eye arrows need magic bows to be effective (Lava bow) and they're good versus enemies weak against magic, like the enemies in 2-x for example.

[Quig]

Ok, must have missed that post. Thanks for clearing it up, again.