Newer fans to the SMT series...

[Frana-Kun]

Do they anger any of you? I mean, not the ones that are actually trying to learn more, but the ones who argue with me that Persona came first, and they aren't really demons in all the games, they are just based off personas.

I cannot find a single Youtube video of SMT anymore, where the comments are barren of these... People... Idiocy. At least they could listen to the other people or read a wiki or something.

Now seriously, if you are new, and ask a n00b-ish question, more power to you. But just... Don't be a do****bag, please.

[Yukichin]

O_o I've never seen ANY new fan be like that.

Hell, I'm a new fan myself, but... wow. I've seen them call demons Personas simply because they're used to it but know demons are correct, but never argue the point...

[AbsyntheDelacroix]

WUT R U TALKING ABOUT??!?1'1 P3 ROCKS MAH SOCKS BABE, NOCTURNE SUCKSSSSS IT'S JUST A RIP-OFF OF PERSONA3 OMG!1!2

Yes, I do know them. And I can already smell the banhammer coming from all the rants and whinig of the P3 newb-fans. Well, I hate them anyway. BRING IT ON!

[Saburo Hikari]

Sadly, I'm a newer fan that to this day still prefers Persona 3 and 4 over all of the other SMT games. The other games just don't click with me just as well as P3 and P4. I guess because I like voices in my console games, and that I don't like the dark themes of traditional SMT, and I prefer P3's and P4's game-play over the old-school type. Plus, I've always wanted to play a high school/dating sim...

But no, I don't say that Persona came first, and that demons are based off of Personas. I still respect traditional SMT.

*Runs away from SMT veterans*

[Sleepless Neko]

About the demons based from Persona....
Are you talking about the release date or in-game timeline. If you're talking about the former, there's a lot peole who think like that, but if you're talking about the later... Gee, thanks bro, you just giving me a headache.

Well, some of those newer fans sure annoying.
P3/4 ARE good games, but saying they're the best game and the other megaten are suck is... WRONG!! (<-- a proud Devil Summoner fan)

I guess everyone has their own preference... Just Ignore them if you find one.

[Manic Expressive]

The ones who refuse to acknowledge or support the rest of the series? Yes, definitely yes, they can diaf.

[Emilio Morales]

Many (not all) new fans to something, they tend to be annoying because the think they know more than a person who happens to know a certain game franchise for so long or a little bit more. They believe that certain games are the best of it's kind and they doesn't even know that there were games before that certain game, and if they happen to know it, sometimes, they say it's garbage compared to his beloved first introductory game to the franchise.

Yes, I know a couple of these guys and yes, sometimes, they're annoying.

[Crabman]

I don't really know much of them in real life. My friends and I kind of "got" the SMT series at the same time with Persona 3, but it's always a joy to just explore the different worlds of the SMT universe with people who know about as much as you do. Being on the same level makes discussion easier and more personal.

Online? I've seen a few, and they're entitled to like whatever (I'm personally more of a P3 guy myself, although RKvsKA is charming as ####), but I'm not a fan of the fanboyish arguments.

[Syra]

I also hate the old fans who hate the new fans just because they're new. God forbid someone discover a series at a different time. >.>;

I can see where you're coming from though. I suppose my point is that the annoyance goes both ways. I'm rather new, first running into SMT with Persona 3. Of course, I now have Nocturne, DDS, and Devil Summoner, as well as P3 and 4, and truthfully, if I had to pick one as the overall best game of those I've played, it'd be Nocturne.

Personal preference wise, I tend to play the Persona games more often. They are easier to pick up, and more casual, but Nocturne was something truly special, and had a number of features far too rare in the Japanese RPG market. Not to mention one of my favorite OST's ever.

Honestly, I think the split among SMT fans is getting out of hand. It wasn't bad when I first took an interest in the series, but now after P4 it seems like an old FF debate, with the VI fans battling the VII fans. I realize there is always that newcomer who just can't accept that others know far more than he/she does, but I'd rather not be judged by the same standard as that person, just because I happen to be new as well. Hell, I find them just as annoying as you older fans do. =X

Oh, and YouTube is a haven for idiocy. I believe the website actually filters all the intellectual remarks out of your post when you click submit, and replaces it with foolishness, and stupidity. I really hope you're not attempting to judge...well...anything off of YouTube, as that's like smashing your PS3 with a sledge hammer, then claiming all PS3's fail because yours no longer works.

[Enzeru]

I don't see why there should be a thread about complaining about people who simply don't know every little tidbit about an overarching series that contains a series that they like. "OH NOES!!! THEY CALL DEM PERSONAS?!?!?!?!? DEY R DEMONS!!!!! PERSONAS AREN'T KUL, DEMONS ARE!!!" Does it really matter what they're called? They're the same thing either way. I used to accidentally call demons personas all the time. Now it's...the opposite.

[Manic Expressive]

Sadly, I'm a newer fan that to this day still prefers Persona 3 and 4 over all of the other SMT games. The other games just don't click with me just as well as P3 and P4. I guess because I like voices in my console games, and that I don't like the dark themes of traditional SMT, and I prefer P3's and P4's game-play over the old-school type. Plus, I've always wanted to play a high school/dating sim...

But no, I don't say that Persona came first, and that demons are based off of Personas. I still respect traditional SMT.

*Runs away from SMT veterans*

I was going to reply with "Did you even try?" but then the pathetic part where you mentioned the games didn't have voices really just sealed your own fate there.

[Rednusander]

This thread is doing nothing but perpetuating elitism and creating a divide between fans of the SAME series.

Everyone is bound to have a favorite SMT game, and their opinions on why one is better are no more or no less valid than anyone else's.

Misinformation is one thing - but don't start in on anyone else's opinions of why they liked P3 and P4 or P1 and P2 better than their counterparts, even if it's for reasons you cannot comprehend.

[unknown]

Persona 3 introduced me to the SMT series, and while it is still my favorite SMT game, Nocturne is pretty damn close to overthrowing it. I loved everything about that game, the graphics (which seem better then P3 and P4), the mood, story, demon negotiation, interactions with the demons and how they acted (love mah Super Pixie), and how I really never needed to grind with the right demon setups and strategy. Seriously, I had more trouble with P3 and P4 then Nocturne.


Overall I prefer the old SMT style, where you actually talk to the demons and they play pretty big roles in the story. Despite not being a traditional SMT game, and being more light hearted then the others, I thought Atlus did a good job with the demons and their character, dialogue in Raidou 2.

[Manic Expressive]

I like the entire series myself, but I am not the one refusing the play the rest of it here, make of that what you will.

[Red: PM'ed.]

[Yukichin]

I prefer Persona 3 and 4, myself; the battle system seems more streamlined, and I like the more straightforward story.

That being said, I absolutely love the dark atmosphere of Nocturne, though I prefer the Persona3/4 art to Kaneko's; something about his art feels... dead, I suppose would be the word? Something about it bugs me.

[unknown]

I prefer Persona 3 and 4, myself; the battle system seems more streamlined.

What are you talking about? It's basically the same thing as Nocturne and DDS, except less punishing when you make a stupid move.

though I prefer the Persona3/4 art to Kaneko's; something about his art feels... dead, I suppose would be the word?

Wat

I believe the words you're looking for are unique and awesome.

[Hamel]

I am one of the older fans (started way before P3 came out) but I still love P3 and P4 nothing wrong with that they are awesome games
That said
Kaneko's art>everything else
seriously Kaneko's art is awesome

[sfried]

I guess I could probably consider myself a new fan. I have no interest in the Persona games nor its high-school/dating sim aspects, yet I'm very interested in Strange Journey because of the dark themes.

[Yukichin]

I prefer Persona 3 and 4, myself; the battle system seems more streamlined.

What are you talking about? It's basically the same thing as Nocturne and DDS, except less punishing when you make a stupid move.

though I prefer the Persona3/4 art to Kaneko's; something about his art feels... dead, I suppose would be the word?

Wat

I believe the words you're looking for are unique and awesome.


I don't know, really; it just feels a bit better to me. I'm not quite sure why.

As for Kaneko's art, no. I don't like it, end of story. I think it's the faces that bug me, for some odd reason that I can't quite place. It just feels cold.

[Syra]

As for Kaneko's art, no. I don't like it, end of story. I think it's the faces that bug me, for some odd reason that I can't quite place. It just feels cold.

It's pretty obvious if you actually examine the art. The eye design, combined with the black upper lip, and desaturated color pallets create a very dark, grim, and somewhat dead appearance, which honestly, is extremely fitting of many SMT games, and damn cool.

Even if you're not a fan, you should give credit to Kaneko, he's the artist behind most(if not all) of the demon designs featured in the entire series from the main SMT's to Persona, and everything in between. Not to mention the guy behind DMC3 Dante and Vergil's Devil Trigger forms, and Inhert from ZOE 2. The man has awesome ideas, plain and simple.

[Iris]

I like the entire series myself, but I am not the one refusing the play the rest of it here, make of that what you will.

See, I don't think it's wrong for somebody to pick up P3 or P4 and not really have an interest in going backwards. The things that appeal to a lot of people about P3/4 -- the focus on high school life, the datesim elements, and the heavy emphasis on character development -- are very much not the selling points of say, Nocturne.

Honestly, whenever I see someone say "I loved P3, what should I try now?" and somebody tells them to go straight to Nocturne, I just kind of stare and go "really, now?" because Nocturne, while an amazing game and my personal favorite in the series, is such a completely different experience from P3 that I don't think liking one necessarily means you'll have any interest in the other.

I see nothing wrong with some people simply being Persona fans, and not Megaten fans -- maybe what they like just isn't what the rest of the series is known for doing well. As long as they're not screaming from the rooftops that they're the world's greatest living expert on SMT or about how Nocturne is the failingest pile of fail that ever failed*, it's their business what they enjoy and liking one offshoot of a series certainly doesn't obligate anyone to try others.


* I've seen a lot of backlash against Nocturne, which...kind of makes me sadface, really. I know a lot of people go to it and realize it's nothing like P3 and it's not their thing, but when people are like GOD IT'S SO TERRIBLE AND OVERRATED AND IT'S JUST A STUPID DUNGEON CRAWL I just want to be like "hey, opinions are fun, but some of us love dungeon crawls, okay? :("

[Manic Expressive]

I always recommend Persona 2 IS/EP, as for Nocturne to me that really is the pinnacle of the series but I only recommend it if the person meets a certain level of intelligence because I am done trying to get newer fans to play good games, all I ever hear are complaints about voice acting, s.links, and the typical stuff that derived from the newer Persona games.

Nocturne though.. man it gave me a reality check a long time ago when it completely kicked my ass. I was furious but I kept on truckin' and I eventually figured out how the game worked and ended up loving it. People just need to give it a chance, how can you not like the plotline? You're a high school kid who survives a post apocalyptic event because of the work of a cult, you come out half demon because of it along with what seems the rest of the remains of the world. Oh yeah and you get Dante as a party member, ####ing Dante, that is just awesome. Though he wasn't the best to use, I loved his high crit rates on some of his special moves.

[Eggn0g]

I always recommend Persona 2 IS/EP, as for Nocturne to me that really is the pinnacle of the series but I only recommend it if the person meets a certain level of intelligence because I am done trying to get newer fans to play good games, all I ever hear are complaints about voice acting, s.links, and the typical stuff that derived from the newer Persona games.

I wouldn't recommend Persona 2 to new fans for a couple of reasons
1) The first one never officially came out in English - and most people can't be arsed to go through the process of getting the translation patch
2) Although the story is still awesome, Persona 2's gameplay AND graphics have aged. Badly.

Not that I'd know a more suitable game to recommend though. All the other SMT games I've played have things that would put off new players (and yes, I have played all these games and enjoyed them);

Nocturne: Matador
Persona 3: Not able to control your own party members, music would be VERY hit+miss (especially with non-anime fans).
Persona 4: Same issue with music, uneven difficulty curve and the gameplay/story ratio is WAY off
Devil Survivor: Much steeper learning curve than other SMT's, especially with the strategy aspect thrown in
SMT1+2: Everything I've said above for other games (except music + AI control), only worse.

I don't see why people get so fustrated with newer fans though. OK, I am a new fan myself since my first SMT game was Persona 3: FES, although I've somehow managed to not piss of any long-time SMT fans on various forums. Probably because I've played + enjoyed the older games too, so they don't notice I'm one of those damned n00bs :p.

Anyway, here's how I see it; although awesome, all of the pre-Persona 3 SMT games are inacessiable for newcomes for various reasons, as well as being rather time consuming. Therefore, expecting Persona 3+4 fans to play through older games AS WELL as keep up with whatever other games they happen to be playing is just unreasonable. If they want to, awesome, good for them. If they don't, then fair doos, no need to get angry at them about it though.

Oops, sorry for the megarant :/

[Hamel]

P3 was quite longer than most games so I don't see your argument at the end

[Manic Expressive]

I wouldn't recommend Persona 2 to new fans for a couple of reasons
1) The first one never officially came out in English - and most people can't be arsed to go through the process of getting the translation patch
2) Although the story is still awesome, Persona 2's gameplay AND graphics have aged. Badly.

Well that is your opinion, but I think the sprites, artwork, and graphics look gorgeous. One of my favorites in an RPG game especially for the PS1 era, it realy stood out from everything else to me.

I don't see why people get so fustrated with newer fans though. OK, I am a new fan myself since my first SMT game was Persona 3: FES, although I've somehow managed to not piss of any long-time SMT fans on various forums. Probably because I've played + enjoyed the older games too, so they don't notice I'm one of those damned n00bs :p.

Because of the kind of posts that are made, like this gem:

http://atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3497

Please give me a reasonable explanation to why the subject in question even matters when the two are from completely different games?

Anyway, here's how I see it; although awesome, all of the pre-Persona 3 SMT games are inacessiable for newcomes for various reasons, as well as being rather time consuming. Therefore, expecting Persona 3+4 fans to play through older games AS WELL as keep up with whatever other games they happen to be playing is just unreasonable. If they want to, awesome, good for them. If they don't, then fair doos, no need to get angry at them about it though.

I'm sorry did you call Persona 2 time consuming? I'm looking at my memory card data and both P3/4 have over 100 hours. My P2 file is around 50 at max at the end. The game is very well paced and doesn't force you to be bound anywhere like school or have a designated dungeon crawling time.

Not that I'd know a more suitable game to recommend though. All the other SMT games I've played have things that would put off new players (and yes, I have played all these games and enjoyed them);

Nocturne: Matador
Persona 3: Not able to control your own party members, music would be VERY hit+miss (especially with non-anime fans).
Persona 4: Same issue with music, uneven difficulty curve and the gameplay/story ratio is WAY off
Devil Survivor: Much steeper learning curve than other SMT's, especially with the strategy aspect thrown in
SMT1+2: Everything I've said above for other games (except music + AI control), only worse.

Matador? Why on earth would anyone have trouble with him after playing P3/P4? All you have to do is be sure to not have a weak corresponding Magatama to which ever element he is spamming (fire IIRC). How can they not remember the press turn system? It's what made P3/P4 possible.

Not trying to sound hostile here but you are asking questions and I am giving the straight answers, from my own perspective anyway.

[Eggn0g]

Well that is your opinion, but I think the sprites, artwork, and graphics look gorgeous. One of my favorites in an RPG game especially for the PS1 era, it realy stood out from everything else to me.

Yeah, I agree about the art direction - much better than most games from the era. Still, the character sprites seemed a bit... stiff (?) compared to other games from the era. I recall Breath of Fire 3 having VERY well animated sprites, although the art direction doesnt hold a candle to Persona 2.

Still, as you said, its an opinion thing. I also only started playing Persona 2 rather recently, and I've probably gotten too used to the PS2 SMT games :p


Because of the kind of posts that are made, like this gem:

http://atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3497

Please give me a reasonable explanation to why the subject in question even matters when the two are from completely different games?

I think you get this for every RPG series in existance. Squall vs Cloud, which Ryu looked cooler, which Pokemon protagonist looked the best etc. etc. etc.

Those kind of posts are pointless, a bit silly and VERY annoying in excess, but that just comes with talking about things on the internet. I tend to just blank out those posts, but if all threads where like that then yeah, I can see where you're coming from.


I'm sorry did you call Persona 2 time consuming? I'm looking at my memory card data and both P3/4 have over 100 hours. My P2 file is around 50 at max at the end. The game is very well paced and doesn't force you to be bound anywhere like school or have a designated dungeon crawling time.

I never compared it to Persona 3/4, which are defenatly longer than either Persona 2 game (and, arguably, Nocturne). Still, 50 hours is still a lot of time to spend on a single game (especially by todays standards), and people only have so much time to spend playing games, especially if they're trying to keep up with recent releases. For example, I held of buying Star Ocean 4 and Tales of Vesperia (which came out quite recently) because I was still playing Persona 2 and Mass Effect, and I knew I wouldnt have enough time to play all four of those games.

Again, this comes down to the person though. Different people have different amounts of free time etc. etc.


Matador? Why on earth would anyone have trouble with him after playing P3/P4? All you have to do is be sure to not have a weak corresponding Magatama to which ever element he is spamming (fire IIRC). How can they not remember the press turn system? It's what made P3/P4 possible.

Even taking that into account, I still had to grind a good few levels to fuse a demon with Media (Uzume I think?), because without that I was getting slaughtered. Lots of people, even pre-Persona 3 SMT fans, say he's a brutal boss considering what level the player usually is at the time.


Not trying to sound hostile here but you are asking questions and I am giving the straight answers, from my own perspective anyway.

Yeah dw, you didnt sound particuarly hostile :)

[Manic Expressive]

I'll admit Matador completely wiped the floor and raped my party almost instantly. It was my first SMT game in the series so I had no idea what to expect, if I had come from playing P3/4 though I think I would have a better idea of how to have countered his insane spam and exploiting the press turn system to his liking.

[unknown]

Nocturne: Matador



Matador isn't that bad if you have the force null Magatama, and several other demons that have force null.

I think the dungeons are what will throw off new players, if they aren't hooked by the atmosphere and mood. That was the part (at least for me...) that gave me the most trouble in Nocturne.

[Iris]

I actually prefer the phys-resist Magatama for Matador. As long as there's at least one force-resistant demon in the party to soak up the turns while he's using Mazan, you don't really need to equip Hifumi that badly. It's Andalucia that will kick your ass, not Mazan.

[Foobar]

Matador isn't that bad if you have the force null Magatama, and several other demons that have force null.

Yes, but did you know that going in and have the party prepped for it the first time you encountered him? Probably not. Easy in retrospect, not so much when you get to the guy without the tools to beat him.

Nocturne is my favorite of the series, but Persona 3 and 4 are what got me back into play SMT games and helped made them more coherent. You can't deny that everything prior to Persona 4 was pretty cryptic in regards to Fusion techniques and what spells/abilities would do. Sometimes you'd get a new ability asking to replace and old one, but they never told you what it did and sometimes that ability was issued randomly and could be total garbage.

Going through the Persona 3 and 4 games (though P3 still retained a lot of these issues), helped me relearn the terms and abilities of the games in a more meaningful way than. Nocturne, Devil Summoner or the Raidou games did.

This topic reminds me of the whole retarded animosity toward Final Fantasy from FFVII onward. "Oh god, I hate all these noobs that have only played the Playstation FFs, FFVII is overrated, blar blar blar..."

We can't deny the impact certain games have made in helping give a genre or a franchise more mainstream attention, though. FFVII was one and while the adherence of some to it being "teh best RPG evar" can be extremely annoying, the impact it made cannot be denied. I've played better, but it had lots of good moments even if the epicness of the story is tremendously exaggerated.

Its the same with the Persona games. They're great games, perhaps their greatness exaggerated by some. But its going to be that way for some people.

Personally, I'm more annoyed by the people that sincerely believe that the only good games that come out in the Nintendo DS are made by Nintendo themselves. And the little twits that think Flipnote Studio is a petition platform for a new Smash Bros game.

[Yukichin]

As for Kaneko's art, no. I don't like it, end of story. I think it's the faces that bug me, for some odd reason that I can't quite place. It just feels cold.

It's pretty obvious if you actually examine the art. The eye design, combined with the black upper lip, and desaturated color pallets create a very dark, grim, and somewhat dead appearance, which honestly, is extremely fitting of many SMT games, and damn cool.

Even if you're not a fan, you should give credit to Kaneko, he's the artist behind most(if not all) of the demon designs featured in the entire series from the main SMT's to Persona, and everything in between. Not to mention the guy behind DMC3 Dante and Vergil's Devil Trigger forms, and Inhert from ZOE 2. The man has awesome ideas, plain and simple.

I never said I don't respect him; I definitely do. And I personally think that there could be art that fits it but isn't quite as lifeless-looking, myself.

[Soushi_Grapple]

You know... I'm not sure whether to say I'm new or an older fan. I got into the series when I saw DDS' deluxe set on Amazon while looking for new RPGs, read the plot summary on the page and preordered it on the spot (despite the fact I'd seen Persona 2 as a rare RPG and snagged it at an EB months before but hadn't picked it up yet).

DDS was fun, second only to P4, but I'd never pick it up again. There are way too many frustrating fights. Same when I start and finish Nocturne. XD I know people say its great but I played up until Forneus and wasn't interested too much (then my gf picked it up and she's been gripin at me to play it). So I will for the challenge and the fact I want the equivelent of the "law" alignment. (I really need to get back to emulating SMT 2... but I wanted to play 1 and I can't recall if it had a translation.. >>; ) Oh, and I did bother to go get P2:IS. I absolutely love it, but just haven't found time to get around to finishing it. (Just beat the Prince Taurus boss, IIRC. Don't know how much further I have.) I really want to complete it so I can pick up P2:EP again.. I played up until I had to pay the Neko statue for a sidequest. XD

As for Matador... especially with newer gamers... theyll hit that fight say its too difficult and never pick the game up. At least, that's what I thought you guys meant at first.

[Hamel]

(I really need to get back to emulating SMT 2... but I wanted to play 1 and I can't recall if it had a translation.. >>; )

SMT1 has a translation

[Kakizaki]

XD I know people say its great but I played up until Forneus

So you didn't like it after essentially an hour of gameplay?

[Soushi_Grapple]

Kakizaki, I didn't mean to say "omg i hated it" or anything. I'm just saying, I've played some of it, seen my gf play up until Trumpeter (where she has been stuck for months..) and the plot/characters just seem really really weak. I'm more for plot over gameplay, but I still love the SMT system and I'm planning to start a new game soon. XD I just need to go back and finish FES first lol

[Manic Expressive]

Kakizaki, I didn't mean to say "omg i hated it" or anything. I'm just saying, I've played some of it, seen my gf play up until Trumpeter (where she has been stuck for months..) and the plot/characters just seem really really weak. I'm more for plot over gameplay, but I still love the SMT system and I'm planning to start a new game soon. XD I just need to go back and finish FES first lol

Wow.. Kaki you handle this one.

[Kakizaki]

^I think it is one of those ones I had better leave alone. ;)

I will just say Nocturne has one of my favorite plots and has some of my favorite characters of all time (videogame-wise). Yes, Nocturne does not have copious amounts of dialog / text, but there is definitely a very strong plot present imo - especially if you do a little digging in-game.

I guess I am also a person that favors quality over quantity as well, and it isn't much of a secret that I am purely in the camp that favors old SMT titles (although I at least gave P3 more than a few hours before determining my feelings on it - roughly 40 hours between the two versions to be exact). Even though such things are purely a matter of opinion, this is where frustration usually sets in for me and why I try to avoid threads like this these days.

Anyway, I am currently having a blast playing through SMT I again on a better emulator than I have used in the past. Most bug free play through ever. Thanks again PFV. ;)

[Kakizaki]

Kakizaki, I didn't mean to say "omg i hated it" or anything. I'm just saying, I've played some of it, seen my gf play up until Trumpeter (where she has been stuck for months..) and the plot/characters just seem really really weak. I'm more for plot over gameplay, but I still love the SMT system and I'm planning to start a new game soon. XD I just need to go back and finish FES first lol


I don't think I implied you hated it, but your are essentially one hour into the game. I don't think that is enough time to formulate a sound opinion, but based on what you have said already in this thread, maybe Nocturne isn't for you.

*Sorry for the double post - kind of a rough day.

[Inzaghi]

I wonder how many people think Nocturne has a weak plot on the basis of not getting very far into it. I think it's an amazing storyline, but it does take a while to pick up steam, not until you get to the end of the Assembly of Nihilo really.

I guess I am also a person that favors quality over quantity as well, and it isn't much of a secret that I am purely in the camp that favors old SMT titles (although I at least gave P3 more than a few hours before determining my feelings on it - roughly 40 hours between the two versions to be exact).

I'm curious, did you ever give Raidou 2 or Devil Survivor a shot?

[Kakizaki]

^I did pick both up, but I haven't had a chance to play either of them. I only briefly spoke with DC about Raidou 2 when I met up with him. I kind of got hooked on Metal Max Returns and with a less buggy and successful neutral path play through of SMT I this summer.

I wonder how many people think Nocturne has a weak plot on the basis of not getting very far into it. I think it's an amazing storyline, but it does take a while to pick up steam, not until you get to the end of the Assembly of Nihilo really.

I sometimes wonder this as well. I also wonder how many of these people have experienced the Labyrinth of Amala. That portion adds quite a bit story wise imo.

[Syra]

Kakizaki, I didn't mean to say "omg i hated it" or anything. I'm just saying, I've played some of it, seen my gf play up until Trumpeter (where she has been stuck for months..) and the plot/characters just seem really really weak. I'm more for plot over gameplay, but I still love the SMT system and I'm planning to start a new game soon. XD I just need to go back and finish FES first lol

The plot isn't weak. The nature of Nocturne's plot is to be very unobtrusive, so those accustomed to other styles of storytelling may have a hard time realizing exactly how interwoven the story is. You can expect to spend hours without ever running into a conversation, or having a lengthy dialog on the nature of the vortex world. Yet that doesn't mean it's devoid of story, and it becomes increasingly obvious the longer you play that all this time you spend roaming about, negotiating with demons, and leveling up is actually a part of the tale in its own right. It's a game that truly shows you the world you're in, rather than telling you about it, and it's a game where you tell the story, more than the NPC's.

If you're looking for a game that revolves around the story, then no, you wont find that in Nocturne. However, if you're seeking a game in which the story revolves around you, the player, then you need look no further. It's one of the most thought provoking games I've experienced, and while it is grind heavy, and filled with bosses who love cheap tactics, the challenge it creates is very rewarding, and it truly forms an atmosphere unlike any other.

You're welcome to dislike it. The game can be difficult to get into depending on how you approach it, and I can understand that. However, calling the plot weak with such a vague understanding of it as you seem to imply rather irks me. I don't mean to be overly harsh, but when you provide no arguments as to why, and state that you quit the game at the first boss, I can't really accept that as a proper opinion on its quality.

[unknown]

I also wonder how many of these people have experienced the Labyrinth of Amala. That portion adds quite a bit story wise imo.

I don't think many of those people ever finish it, cause you need to progress through a big chunk of the main game to actually complete it.

That being said, I'm glad Atlus brought over the Maniacs version, Labyrinth of Amala is one of my most favorite parts of the game.

[Foobar]

I do dislike the "Story more important than gameplay" mentality. There were plenty of places to get story before video games, to me, its a matter of how well-intergrated the story is and that its not oppressive to the gameplay.

In SMT games, there's a place where the line between story and gameplay blur. You make choices and see them through rather than have one set path like many RPGs these days do. For SMT, that's where manc of the story elements lie. Playing through it once isn't seeing it all.

Even as story-heavy as Persona games can be, that can be a factor, though for P3 and P4 its more contained to Social Links. I see story as part of the gameplay there, though. Maintaining various relationships leads to rewards elsewhere in the game.

There are games where too much story is a bad thing. I think Xenosaga is a prime example of this. They were more focused on telling a story than providing a gameplay experience and it showed right as they slid into Xenosaga II and III. Nothing was ever consistant in terms of gameplay, in Xeno and Xeno II gameplay was an afterthought. And if you managed to stomach the first game's system, they went and replaced it with an inferior system in the next game.

So I prefer a story be paced out rather well. Its silly when it overwhelms an experience that's supposed to be interactive, especially so when it comes at the expense of exploration and choice.

[Zacewing]

Suddenly I'm reminded of SMT Online's playerbase. They're always like ZOMG IT R PERSONA ONLINE ZOMGOMGOMGOMG.

I wish Atlus would have published the game instead of lolaeriagames.

[Enzeru]

Suddenly I'm reminded of SMT Online's playerbase. They're always like ZOMG IT R PERSONA ONLINE ZOMGOMGOMGOMG.
Well, the ads DO say "Unleash your persona" and "Persona Online"...

But anyway, as for Nocturne, I have yet to finish it, but I always do the new Labyrinth of Amala parts ASAP because I find that more fun than the "main" game, plus it levels my characters, and that's always nice. As for Matador...I tried him once, but him having such a bad reputation and all, I was prepared and FAQ'd him. I prefer beating bosses on my own, but whatever. Although I admit, the "story" bits are light, it really reminds me of the N64 Zeldas. It has the same atmosphere, in my mind. What was Zelda's story? Ganandorf is evil, and...you want to destroy him. And that's it. If anything, Nocturne has more of a story than Zelda, and I think that's why fans raise it above the other PS2 SMTs: because it has the same charm as the wildly popular Zelda.

[Manic Expressive]

^I was just going to mention the Labyrinth of Amala is the ultimate win for juicy plot details. You get so much detailed info for completing certain Kalpa/sections of the huge beast, it's very worthwhile.

I wish SMT games nowadays were more like Nocturne, it makes me sad that the developers are crippling the series just so they can get more sales. Are we ever going to see a game as dedicated and amazing as SMT III again? At this point, I do not think so.

Strange Journey does not count simply because it's on a handheld. What a waste of potential, especially being on DS.

[Hamel]

Strange Journey does not count simply because it's on a handheld. What a waste of potential, especially being on DS.

Why?it looks great what's wrong with it?

[sfried]

Strange Journey does not count simply because it's on a handheld. What a waste of potential, especially being on DS.Seriously, what's with the DS hating?

[Manic Expressive]

It looks great but seriously, any game that is on a handheld could have been so much better on a current gen system. Valkyria Chronicles 2 is just a perfect example of this, you know it isn't going to compare to the original game.

[Kakizaki]

^My fear that had Strange Journey been on a console, it may not have been in first person.

Yeah, I know there are numerous first person dungeon crawlers still coming out on consoles in Japan, but none of them are quite as high profile as a SMT title.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a classic SMT title on a console with incredible high res art / enemies designs portrayed in first person, but I have to wonder if they would even bother.

[Zacewing]

I don't see what's the big deal with handhelds. Especially because the DS and PSP are severely lacking in good RPG's.

On the subject of Nocturne, I haven't played it much because it usually can't hold my interest for longer than an hour or so. Granted I'm only at the beginning of the game, but...

[Olethros]

As excited as I am about Strange Journey, I share the sentiment that it's a shame it's on a portable. I have a DS, and a friggin' dump truck load of games for it, but they all sit and collect dust because I'd rather be playing console games on my HD TV with my free time. More often than not, I'll find myself playing an average or less game on my 360 while a quite stellar game sits unopened for my DS. Why strain my eyes on a tiny little screen (or two) when I could be palying on a large screen LCD?

[Manic Expressive]

I don't see what's the big deal with handhelds. Especially because the DS and PSP are severely lacking in good RPG's.

http://i30.tinypic.com/ifd7uw.jpg

Just take a good look at the master list of RPG's on each platform and try saying that again seriously.

DS: Approximately: 106

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125487

PSP: Approximately: 54

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126374

360: Approximately: 25

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123589

PS3: Approximately: LOL

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125565

DS is being extremely whored out with RPG's. PSP is doing a little better, but that's with every kind of genre lately. Sure quantity doesn't = quality but again take a close look at what RPG's the DS has to slaughter the competition. Etrian Odyssey and it's sequel, Devil Survivor, Final Fantasy ports, Suikoden, any franchise, you name it.

Oh yeah and I rest my case.

[Eggn0g]

It's a money thing really. A dungeon crawler on the DS will sell more than a dungeon crawler on a 360/PS3, and it'll be cheaper to make.

Besides, I'm not too fussed about Strange Journey being on DS. I'm not gonna have much time to play big RPGs on home consoles from next month onwards, so it being on a handheld makes life a bit easier for me at least.

Oh, and LMAO at the PS3's RPG lineup. How did the PS2's successor mess up in that department?

[unknown]

Well Sony messed up pretty badly from the start.

[Olethros]

It's a money thing really. A dungeon crawler on the DS will sell more than a dungeon crawler on a 360/PS3, and it'll be cheaper to make.

Besides, I'm not too fussed about Strange Journey being on DS. I'm not gonna have much time to play big RPGs on home consoles from next month onwards, so it being on a handheld makes life a bit easier for me at least.

Oh, and LMAO at the PS3's RPG lineup. How did the PS2's successor mess up in that department?

I know. Just sayin' that I'll be less likely to play it all the way through, if at all, since it's on a portable. Also, I can't imagine I'm the only one that feels this way. Although I'll admit that, given recent trends and circumstances, it may be the minority opinion presently.

[Hamel]

It's a money thing really. A dungeon crawler on the DS will sell more than a dungeon crawler on a 360/PS3, and it'll be cheaper to make.

Besides, I'm not too fussed about Strange Journey being on DS. I'm not gonna have much time to play big RPGs on home consoles from next month onwards, so it being on a handheld makes life a bit easier for me at least.

Oh, and LMAO at the PS3's RPG lineup. How did the PS2's successor mess up in that department?

I know. Just sayin' that I'll be less likely to play it all the way through, if at all, since it's on a portable. Also, I can't imagine I'm the only one that feels this way. Although I'll admit that, given recent trends and circumstances, it may be the minority opinion presently.

With that I agree
I would like to play it on a big screen rather than on a small one
but I still think it would be a great game

[Flußkönig]

^I did pick both up, but I haven't had a chance to play either of them. I only briefly spoke with DC about Raidou 2 when I met up with him. I kind of got hooked on Metal Max Returns and with a less buggy and successful neutral path play through of SMT I this summer.

I wonder how many people think Nocturne has a weak plot on the basis of not getting very far into it. I think it's an amazing storyline, but it does take a while to pick up steam, not until you get to the end of the Assembly of Nihilo really.

I sometimes wonder this as well. I also wonder how many of these people have experienced the Labyrinth of Amala. That portion adds quite a bit story wise imo.
Man, I need to finish up Metal Max Returns. I had gotten pretty far when I started playing something else and forgot all about it.

I think the problem people have with Nocturne's plot has more to do with the format of the story than anything else. Nocturne has a minimalist plot that gives you the facts and then relies on the player to put everything together.

On the other hand the plot of most jrpgs explains exactly what is going on in excruciatingly painful detail even when it is obvious. I am guessing that some people just don't know how to react to a game that doesn't have a modern FF (excluding XII of course) plot.

Personally I think Nocturne has an amazing story, but I can understand why people with bad taste wouldn't agree. ;)

[Kenji]

What I love about Nocturne, and why it's my favorite of the franchise, is how integrated the plot is into the gameplay and atmosphere and how reliant it is upon subtext. Really, it reminds me of a well-crafted survival horror, like the first two Silent Hill games or Siren. This is what good storytelling in a video game is.

To this day, it's one of the few games that can get an emotional reaction out of me. I still remember the chill I felt when Chiaki changed.

Me, I count as a newer fan, since I stepped into the franchise with Persona 3. However, that hasn't stopped me from playing and enjoying various other titles, both old and new, all on their own merits. Currently, I'm playing SMT1 and very much enjoying it.

[unknown]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I've ever felt so badass in a JRPG ever

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x165/arcstuff/slicedanddicedthem.jpg

SLICED AND DICED THEM

[four_black_hearts]

I don't see what's the big deal with handhelds. Especially because the DS and PSP are severely lacking in good RPG's.
Yes there's an ocean of 'em, but only a handful of good ones.

[Manic Expressive]

The amount of "good" RPG's on DS still overshadow the amount of good RPG's on any other current platform either way. (PS3, 360, DS, PSP)

[sfried]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I've ever felt so badass in a JRPG ever

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x165/arcstuff/slicedanddicedthem.jpg

SLICED AND DICED THEMThose are just words on a console RPG.

And people contesting the amount of good RPGs on handhelds as opposed to home consoles? It's quite logistically simple why the latter has far fewer of them: budget.

The thing is, big budget handheld titles are beginning to match (if not exceed at times) the quality found in last generation's console market, not to mention that handhelds are easier to develop for. It just makes more spend spending less money for something that can achieve as grand as early to mid last-gen games, only more realized and fleshed out because of the way handhelds are also seen as a better for risk taking markets.

[unknown]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I've ever felt so badass in a JRPG ever

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x165/arcstuff/slicedanddicedthem.jpg

SLICED AND DICED THEMThose are just words on a console RPG.

Yeaaaaah, they are words on a console RPG. >_>

I was just adding onto Kenji's talk about Nocturne's atmosphere and how badass it is.

Honestly I wasn't paying attention to whatever you guys were arguing about.

[Foobar]

I don't see what's the big deal with handhelds. Especially because the DS and PSP are severely lacking in good RPG's.

Er... what DS and PSP have you been playing? RPGs account for about 20 of the 30 DS games I have and they're all pretty good. I've got some catching up to do with PSP, but I know enough to know its not lacking in RPGs in contrast to current gen consoles.

PSP is lacking in steady releases, sure, but what RPGs are there are more than enough to keep me happily occupied.

Strange Journey does not count simply because it's on a handheld.

So, by that logic Dragon Quest IX doesn't count. Think you got three million people so far that are going to disagree. SE and Level 5 sure aren't hurting for it being on DS.

Atlus isn't going to hurt of have Devil Survivor and Strange Journey on DS, either.

Its cheap to develop for, presents their game well enough and they can really only stand to profit. I see no problems here.

I'm 31 and have yet to be ridiculed for whipping out the PSP or DS in public. In the age of things like iPhone and Blackberry, its really just not that strange to see someone poking on some gizmo all the time.

Mine's just louder and shows prettier things.

[Zacewing]

Er... what DS and PSP have you been playing? RPGs account for about 20 of the 30 DS games I have and they're all pretty good. I've got some catching up to do with PSP, but I know enough to know its not lacking in RPGs in contrast to current gen consoles.

PSP is lacking in steady releases, sure, but what RPGs are there are more than enough to keep me happily occupied.

The DS has tons of RPG's but most of them aren't very good. The only RPG's I've liked and that I've heard are good are the Luminous Arc games, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III and IV, Tales Of Innocence, Tales Of Hearts, Disgaea DS, FFTA2, Devil Survivor and uh...that's about it.

And most PSP RPG's are ports of PS1/PS2 games.

[sfried]

The DS has tons of RPG's but most of them aren't very good. The only RPG's I've liked and that I've heard are good are the Luminous Arc games, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III and IV, Tales Of Innocence, Tales Of Hearts, Disgaea DS, FFTA2, Devil Survivor and uh...that's about it.

I do not see Etrian Odyssey on that list. Also Soma Bringer, 7th Dragon, and Phantasy Star 0 if you count imports (the latter coming out this month).

[Olethros]

This debate about the DS just doesn't seem right to me without imput from Master Zombots. :)

[Zacewing]

Well, I've never played Etrian Odyssey, Soma Bringer or PS0, so...

But PS0 looks good.

[SickleCellAnemia]

This debate about the DS just doesn't seem right to me without imput from Master Zombots. :)

I concur, cap'n!

[Intrigue]

I love the SMT series as a whole, despite the fact that im a newer fan

In the end every one is going to have their own individual favorites and opinions

This thread seems to be pointless.

[Kakizaki]

How one chooses to define themselves as a newer or older fan is pretty subjective as well.

I have seen a lot of people that like to label themselves as older fans post comments about "traditional SMT" titles or older SMT / SMT related titles that make me scratch my head. I'm pretty much to the point where I can't stand to read SMT related threads on many other message boards.

[Zacewing]

I'd very much consider myself a "newer fan". My first SMT game was P3FES, and then after that I started expressing an interest in other games in the series.

[deku2106]

Came for the Dante, stayed for the Nocturne. I'm pretty sure that was the first SMT or SMT-related game to come out here, but how long I've known the series doesn't really matter. Any series I play, I tend to want to play/buy the whole thing, offshoots inclusive.

[Kakizaki]

^As far as SMT related, no it wasn't the first to make it here by a long shot. First mainline SMT though.

[deku2106]

Apologies, 'here' being the UK. Figured it was in my 'Location' thing, but apparently I never filled it in. Hm, I do remember reading about the Persona games somewhere around the time of their respective US releases, but as far as I know, they never made it here. Nothing written about them suggests so, at least.

[Kakizaki]

Ah, I see. Didn't catch the U.K. part. My mistake.

[Mellusia]

I consider myself a newbie to SMT. I started with Persona 3 and 4, and discovered the older games (Nocturne, Digitial Devil Saga 1 and 2), and picked up the newer games (Devil Summoner 2, Devil Survivor). Maybe it's the graphics, maybe it's the character designs, but so far I like P3 and P4 far more than the Persona game I'm playing on the PSP right now. However, I'm not gonna shoot down a game for the graphics it has. I can appreciate the game for what it is.

So I dislike those "know-it-all newbs" myself. I consider myself a decent Final Fantasy fan, and while I enjoyed FFVII, I couldn't count the amount of times I wanted to throttle someone for saying how it's the best, most awesome out of the massive series and everything else is crap. And don't get me started on the "remake it for the PS3!11" thing either Dx

On that note, I think some veterans are real pricks too. One thing I've seen a lot of from veterans is the denial of Persona being part of the SMT series. It's RIGHT THERE on the friggin' game cover! Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3/Persona 4. Even Devil Survivor. I don't understand what the issue is. What's wrong with just grouping the games with the same name heading together? D=

[Hamel]

I consider myself a newbie to SMT. I started with Persona 3 and 4, and discovered the older games (Nocturne, Digitial Devil Saga 1 and 2), and picked up the newer games (Devil Summoner 2, Devil Survivor). Maybe it's the graphics, maybe it's the character designs, but so far I like P3 and P4 far more than the Persona game I'm playing on the PSP right now. However, I'm not gonna shoot down a game for the graphics it has. I can appreciate the game for what it is.


Don't worry I think P3/4 are better than 1 too
But I think P2IS is better than 3

[TeddiE]

persona 3 and 4 is the best...including the persona 3 fes..but i really hope they can make another of their persona games..let say...hw bout makin persona 4 fes or persona 5 for ps2???tht would be great!!!!XD

[TheDoctor]

On that note, I think some veterans are real pricks too. One thing I've seen a lot of from veterans is the denial of Persona being part of the SMT series. It's RIGHT THERE on the friggin' game cover! Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3/Persona 4. Even Devil Survivor. I don't understand what the issue is. What's wrong with just grouping the games with the same name heading together? D=

Well they aren't SMT games technically, however, they are part of the Megami Tensei (Megaten) franchise.

Atlus USA decided to add "SMT" to everything Megaten after Nocturne (AKA SMT3) so that so people outside Japan know they're part of the same family of games.

It was a good idea so new fans of Megaten would track down the other games, keep an eye for upcoming ones and create a coherent franchise but also a bit confusing to newcomers because they aren't sure if they are missing part of the story by starting on a certain game, even though they don't know that most of them are hardly connected even within the same series.

[AbsyntheDelacroix]

persona 3 and 4 is the best...including the persona 3 fes..but i really hope they can make another of their persona games..let say...hw bout makin persona 4 fes or persona 5 for ps2???tht would be great!!!!XD

There won't be a Persona 4 FES, Atlus said it themselves.

[Vyse of Arcadia]

The interesting thing about MegaTen is that there are more spinoff games than main series games. The only other company that does that is Capcom.

So the issues about whether you're considered an SMT n00b or not on the internet seems to be whether you're more familiar with the main series or the spinoff games. Which is a bit unfair, especially in the USA which has one main series entry and plenty of spinoffs. You don't see Capcom fans ridiculing people who prefer Megaman X over Megaman, do you? (Although they might ridicule those who prefer, say, Pokem... err, Megaman Battle Network.)

The issue of calling demons "personas" seems to be on the order of calling non-VIII FF summons "guardian forces." A minor thing that should be corrected and forgotten.

I don't know whether I'm a MegaTen newbie or not. I started with Revelations: The Demon Slayer (Megami Tensei Gaiden: Last Bible) way back on the GBC. I think that was the first MegaTen to hit the US, but I may be wrong. I then forgot about the series until P2, which I missed on account of not owning a PSX at the time. The next one I owned was P3 (or Digital Devil Saga, I bought them right around the same time) and I've been snapping them up ever since.

[Aliquem]

I guess I would be considered a nb' or what not, I mean I recently just collected all of the SMT games I could get my hands on. But I would like to know where everything began, I can only grasp so much from looking on the internet... So far I can gather that the smt series of games consists of usually the same type of demons, with a different story line that usually kicks @ss. Eh... I need to take some SMT:101 or something, I can't be addicted to the series and not know exactly whats going on I guess, lol.

[Chie_fan]

Like many people, my first experience with the MegaTen franchise was P3, I loved it to death and since then decided to track down all of the other games in the series. After P3, I beat Devil Survivor, then Persona 4, then Persona PSP and I'm currently playing and loving Digital Devil Saga. I still plan on playing all of the other ones aswell, after all I already have pretty much all of the translated MegaTen games. Anyway, I do dislike these newbies to the series that manage to spout some of the most ignorant statements ever, but I equally dislike the elitistic veterans that are out there aswell.

[Vyse of Arcadia]

Eh... I need to take some SMT:101 or something

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten.htm

Tada!

[Pantaloons]

I started with the PS2 Personas. Liked the combat and fusion system (well, it has its problems) but not the banal high school social sim, and can't really comment on the dungeons being "good" or "bad" in those games because nobody's ever really done random generation well, in ANY game. You play through the same "theme" dungeon 2 or 3 times and it all seems the same from then on even if the layouts are slightly different, it's obvious certain sections are just cut and paste in any game that generates areas like that.

When Nocturne and DDS got reprinted and were sold for USD$30 a piece I picked all 3 games up. Then the Raidou games. Finding a new sealed copy of the first Raidou game for a reasonable price was hell-- it's rare and still is. Got it for under $30 this year, though, when I was checking online auctions at the right time. I also played Devil Survivor but I don't really think of it as much better than an average game really.

Have to say Raidou vs King Abaddon and DDS are my favorites. Nocturne's cool and all but there's some little things that bother me about it which make me not rate it as high as Raidou 2 and DDS, mostly relating to demon fusion even though Nocturne did do fusion in a more player-friendly way than Persona 3/4 and their massive list of inheritance rules, and years before. The whole massive skill weighting of low vs. high skills and in Persona the affinity system where a given persona might be like 8 times more likely to inherit a certain type of skill and not inherit certain skill types at all makes it even harder to work with. I've not beaten the ultimate boss in P3 FES because it's just too much of a pain to make a working setup for that.

[Aliquem]

Eh... I need to take some SMT:101 or something

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten.htm

Tada!

Why thank you my good man :D

[Bright Shadow]

I don't necessarily hate newer fans. Only stupid ones who say P3 is better than Nocturne etc.

edit - Sorry man, I know you were probably joking, but those kind of comments aren't funny. - Kakizaki

[Saburo Hikari]

I too am ticked off by newer fans that think Persona 3 and 4 are t3h b3st g43ms 3v4r (not to mention most seem to have extremely bad grammar when posting on forums), as well as SMT veterans/elitists that look down on newer fans.

Sadly, I'm a newer fan that to this day still prefers Persona 3 and 4 over all of the other SMT games. The other games just don't click with me just as well as P3 and P4. I guess because I like voices in my console games, and that I don't like the dark themes of traditional SMT, and I prefer P3's and P4's game-play over the old-school type. Plus, I've always wanted to play a high school/dating sim...

But no, I don't say that Persona came first, and that demons are based off of Personas. I still respect traditional SMT.

*Runs away from SMT veterans*

I was going to reply with "Did you even try?" but then the pathetic part where you mentioned the games didn't have voices really just sealed your own fate there.How nice of you to say that... And yes, I did give the games a try. That "liking my console RPGs with voices" was a minor thing really, now that I think back on what I wrote. I would've probably written that differently now than when I first posted that.

The DS has tons of RPG's but most of them aren't very good. The only RPG's I've liked and that I've heard are good are the Luminous Arc games, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III and IV, Tales Of Innocence, Tales Of Hearts, Disgaea DS, FFTA2, Devil Survivor and uh...that's about it.Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier would like a word with you. ;)

I think the PSP has been steadily getting good (non-port) J-RPGs, at least in Japan. Crisis Core -Final Fantasy VII-, Valkyria Chronicles 2, Persona 3 Portable, Phantasy Star Portable 1 and 2, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions, maybe Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep.

[Evilkinggumby]

I have no Idea where I stand, Newb or old lover. I started the games with Persona 1 and 2 on the ps1 about 5 or 6 years ago and those are what made me find out about P3:fesand p4 when it finally hit. So in that respect I guess I am not so much a newb as I didn't start with the later games.

BUT..

I have also never played through the other games, such as Nocturne or DDS at all. I can say by going through this thread I now am more interested to try Nocturne because of what many of you have said (good and bad) about it. So because my knowledge on the trivia of the SMT franchise as a whole is very very limited, this sort of makes me something of a newb.

BUT..

I can also relate to the annoyance of having the short shouts of the p3/4 lovers out there just screaming their praise with no real explanation or weight to their words. It's like shouting in a food court "I love taco bell! all you people not eating it are losers!" and running away.. lol..

though I do love taco bell.. I have no problem seeing people eat other stuff. heck I enjoy other stuff too(nowadays i don't do taco bell as much.. damn sodium and calories...)

I commend everyone that contributed to this forum thread though. It rambled a bit off topic at times but I have to say it remained generally civil and really really informative. Considering the potential for rants and flames, thats really kool to see.

I've seen a lot talking about the plot of Nocturne and how it operates. I really am curious if the overall plot, once discovered, is truly as rich and interesting as folk make it out to be. So I am going to hunt down a copy of it and see for myself. I was curious about the game back when it first hit, but somehow I missed it's release and just.. forgot about it for a long while...

[Foobar]

I read this story a while back about how the hardcore have this tendency to shun the causal gamer or new fan of series rather than preach the virtues of their favorite hobby or the merits of a particular franchise.

Its totally true. We don't. Rather than sit there and look at the success of Persona 3 and 4 as a good thing, some have shown us they look down on those games for being more inclusive and thier fans for being more interested in that particular side of the franchise.

I will admit to being irked that there's so much Persona talk in the "Main Series" SMT forums (because Persona is a spin off series that's a franchise all its own now) and would prefer Persona discussion remained separate, but I don't think less of Persona or the people that enjoy it.

In fact, when I talk about SMT with someone and Persona comes up, I just use it as a starting point to nudge them towards something like Nocturne, Devil Survivor or Digitial Devil Saga. Nocturne and Devil Summoner 2 are probably my favorites in recent years. I use it to talk up Strange Journey and why they should be looking forward to it.

Persona is a great series, why not use it as a gateway to show their something that might even be better for them?

Growing up, it wasn't really Dragon Quest on NES that got me into RPGs, though it was my first. It was Zelda. It has the raw elements of an RPG, just simplified, but that's what's what helped me move into a full-fledged RPG. When I got to Dragon Quest as a kid, it wasn't really that alien a concept to me.

I was lighting torches in Zelda, searching for treasure and learning how to manage my hearts and resources. That experience lent well to Dragon Quest.

And the experience of Persona 3 and 4 lend really well to the other installments of the series. What's Sukukaja do? I can learn that much more easily in Persona 4 than I did in Nocturne. I started SMT with Nocturne, but never beat it until I finished Persona 3 and 4.

By that time, I was well-versed in the terminolgy and able to do well in Nocturne and later, Digital Devil Saga.

I would love to play the older entries of the series if Atlus Japan was willing to bring them over. Sadly, they don't seem to see it as worth the effort. But perhaps if the franchise and its spin-offs continue to do well, they'll change thier tune and remake them.

[Evilkinggumby]

And the experience of Persona 3 and 4 lend really well to the other installments of the series. What's Sukukaja do? I can learn that much more easily in Persona 4 than I did in Nocturne. I started SMT with Nocturne, but never beat it until I finished Persona 3 and 4.

By that time, I was well-versed in the terminology and able to do well in Nocturne and later, Digital Devil Saga.

I have to completely aggree. Though I started the series with P1/2 I didn't finish either because I had a hard time understanding the lingo, style, and true concept of the games. After hammering through p3/4 it all made much more sense. So going back and revisiting the first 2 was almost like playing a whole new game.

I would fear Atlus might take this very notion and dumb-down the first 2 games to make them easier to grab and go, which could be good(if they do changes that clean it up) but could be bad if they make changes to simplify to where the game becomes bland and indistinct. From what I heard, the Persona 1 psp made a point of changing aspects to make it easier(and faster) to play without killing it's content. So hopefully that will continue to be their philosophy.

[Archie55]

I'm sorry, but I think that, as a newer fan to the series, that the entire SMT series is fantastic. Now that I have that out of the way, I would like to say that I'm probably more excited for SMT: Strange Journey more than when Persona PSP was announced for the U.S.. I have only played Devil Survivor, but I think I like it a lot. Heck, these are the only RPG's that I'd ever buy day 1. I think that Persona is a great series, but it's predecessors made it happen. That's just me.

[Master Ichijou]

Really? I've never seen any fans like that, well, I'm new to the SMT Series, since I'm totally used to Persona, my first different SMT was Devil Survivor and when I saw a Pixie saying that was going to eat me I kinda freaked :p

But I got along the game with no problem at all, I like them both and now, playing Nocturne, it's more credits to these great works. And when I finish Nocturne, I look forward playing another SMT...

[Eldorado112]

Im new to the smt i guess my first title was persona 3. I never touched any other smt game after i beat P3 but i definatley did some research. I bought persona 4 shortly after i had beaten P3. Loved them both they were amazing games , the battle system, fusion, slink, everything. After a year i decided to try another game so i chose digital devil saga. Im still playing it. But ive only had it for about one week. The battle system is very similiar but it feels a little bit different its way harder to for me anyways. In boss battles if i mes up once seriously im ####ed. But its pretty cool and fun so far i dont know if it will be the same as P3 and P4 but when i beat those games it was the first time where i was happy that I hade bought a video games. Persona 3 was the first game I really got into and actually one of the very few i have beat(im not a very big fan of video games well until now)But loved these games thats why i decided to try someothers. So i know us newer fans can be annoying but i think it goes both ways. We piss you guys off and you guys piss us off sometimes. But does it really matter. Persona 3 and up are what attracted more fans so its not surprisng there not going back to the older games but all you newer fans that havent played any other smt games besides persona i recommend you do. I also played persona psp and im also still playing that game. The old school style is really hard for me to get use to but its still a great game nonetheless.

[Eldorado112]

I am one of the older fans (started way before P3 came out) but I still love P3 and P4 nothing wrong with that they are awesome games
That said
Kaneko's art>everything else
seriously Kaneko's art is awesome
one more post I promise. Kanekos art work is the so awesome. Never seen an anime face like that before he is so cool and hsi artwork is just so unique and cool how could you not like it.

[impactiko02]

Personally, I really enjoy Shin Megami Tensei:Nocturne because it is really different if you compare the RPGS that came out in the same time frame for the PS1 and PS2. The atmosphere is the very reason why it is one of my top 10+ RPGs of all time. Nothing really comes close to it (Dark, depressing, isolation mood wise) maybe except the first 2 Silent Hill and Siren. Voice acting, cut scenes, wonderful realistic graphics etc. arent a big deal because those wont make or break a game...for myself at least. It's not everyday you see Thor (A Norse God) stealing souls from Manikens:D. The more you play the game, the more isolated you will feel since there are no "humans" to interact with which can get kinda depressing, lol.

Persona 3 didnt really do it for me because I'm not really into the Dating Sim aspect of the game. If you messed up a chain link because a certain NPC is jealous of another girl, well you're screwed and have to wait until next game play+ to actually complete it and get the Tarot card. Yes, it gives you the option to do whatever you want but at the same time why cant we go on a date with 2 different girls in the same day? One in the morning and one at night seems fine:D.

Personally, I prefer Kanekos art style to Shigenori Soejima. The character design from Soejima fits the Persona universe I think. I just felt like the cartoony sprites didnt really fit into the supposedly dark atmosphere of the game. Yeah, maybe that's the main reason why I didnt really enjoy it as much as I wanted><.

P3 is the reason why most newer players got into the Shin Megami Universe. I am glad that people enjoy playing P3, it can only help the people that never tried any of the other SMT and at least give it a try. Who knows, they might actually try out Nocturne and the older SMT games. At the end of the day, it can only benefit us because if P5? do well enough we can see a P6 and P7 and P8 and P9, lolxD. If Atlus makes a decent profit out of the newer Persona games, Atlus might consider making Nocturne 2 or any of the older SMT games we are craving. Just my opinion thats all:p

[fates]

As a member of the Dragon Quest fandom, a fandom crying for that lucky "hit game that gets everyone's attention" break, I can say that new fans are always a good thing, because it pretty much promises that the series will remain financially plausible.

As for the noob issue, from my experience, that issue has nothing to do with being "new" to something. If someone's going to act foolish, they're just going to act foolish.

I just tend not to like this "more popularity = bad", because I really think it hurts the fans more than anything.

[Deified Data]

I also hate the old fans who hate the new fans just because they're new. God forbid someone discover a series at a different time. >.>;

I can see where you're coming from though. I suppose my point is that the annoyance goes both ways. I'm rather new, first running into SMT with Persona 3. Of course, I now have Nocturne, DDS, and Devil Summoner, as well as P3 and 4, and truthfully, if I had to pick one as the overall best game of those I've played, it'd be Nocturne.

Personal preference wise, I tend to play the Persona games more often. They are easier to pick up, and more casual, but Nocturne was something truly special, and had a number of features far too rare in the Japanese RPG market. Not to mention one of my favorite OST's ever.

Honestly, I think the split among SMT fans is getting out of hand. It wasn't bad when I first took an interest in the series, but now after P4 it seems like an old FF debate, with the VI fans battling the VII fans. I realize there is always that newcomer who just can't accept that others know far more than he/she does, but I'd rather not be judged by the same standard as that person, just because I happen to be new as well. Hell, I find them just as annoying as you older fans do. =X

Oh, and YouTube is a haven for idiocy. I believe the website actually filters all the intellectual remarks out of your post when you click submit, and replaces it with foolishness, and stupidity. I really hope you're not attempting to judge...well...anything off of YouTube, as that's like smashing your PS3 with a sledge hammer, then claiming all PS3's fail because yours no longer works.

This. This, this, this, this, this.

Nothing annoys me more than one generation of fandom despising another. More often than not it's based on nothing more than the old-guard's selfish desire to keep their favorite series to themselves - out of some fear that if their favorite series becomes too popular, it'll become mainstream and no longer "cool". I see the exact same thing happen on Bethesda's forum regarding The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout's No Mutants Allowed forum.

However, I must say that this site has been head and shoulders above the others when it comes to accepting new fans, such as myself (I started with Devil Survivor). It disappoints me to see threads like this. I realize that it wasn't created out of malice, but I hope against hope that such things don't become a trend here.

At the end of the day, the game you start with (whether its Nocturne or Strange Journey) has nothing to do with your commitment to the series. I'm sure there are many new fans (myself included) who give the series the respect it deserves - sometimes, moreso than some of the old guard.

[Iris]

More often than not it's based on nothing more than the old-guard's selfish desire to keep their favorite series to themselves - out of some fear that if their favorite series becomes too popular, it'll become mainstream and no longer "cool".

This is often the case, and is frustrating to watch. On the other hand: there are some pretty distinctive differences between the old-school and new-school Megaten games, and some of the old guard groaning over Megaten's newfound popularity is going to be more based on that than on the potential loss of their indie cred. I enjoyed the new games as well, but I immensely prefer the atmosphere of the older games over the feeling they went for in P3/4, for example.

Or to cite the best example here -- the changes to Persona PSP's soundtrack. The newer style of music has a way different tone. I love Persona PSP for all its other improvements, but I didn't dig the change of tone much at all.

But Atlus is being pretty cool about throwing the old guard some things to be happy about, too -- the plot of Devil Survivor is like one huge SMT1 homage, and Strange Journey is a definite throwback, so I think a lot of the worries about the tone being IRREVOCABLY CHANGED OH GOD NO aren't as bad as some people would say they are, either.

[Pibbman]

Personally I understand the whole "if it becomes too popular, it'll become mainstream and no longer 'cool'" stance. Not because of the "cool" aspect of it, but because as games become more mainstream they tend to lose the appeal they had in the first place, as the developers try to appeal to an even broader fanbase.

This usually means taking out features entirely, or making the mechanics really simplistic.

For example, likes take the fusion aspect of the SMT games. What if they removed the feature entirely, or dumbed it down incredibly just to make it easier for mainstream gamers to understand? I'm sure a lot of people here would hate that.

Be it games, music or whatever; the people who are behind it tend to forget sometimes what or who got them to where they are in the now.

However if Altus is smart they'll continue to keep everything separate.

[Hamel]

For example, likes take the fusion aspect of the SMT games. What if they removed the feature entirely, or dumbed it down incredibly just to make it easier for mainstream gamers to understand? I'm sure a lot of people here would hate that.


I actually wish more SMT games were like Devil Survivor in the fusion part because you can actually pick what skills will move on instead of praying not to spend hours until you are satisfied

[Pibbman]

For example, likes take the fusion aspect of the SMT games. What if they removed the feature entirely, or dumbed it down incredibly just to make it easier for mainstream gamers to understand? I'm sure a lot of people here would hate that.


I actually wish more SMT games were like Devil Survivor in the fusion part because you can actually pick what skills will move on instead of praying not to spend hours until you are satisfied

Haha, yeah that is understandable. Although I do think its awesome the way it is, for you could spend about 30 minutes doing something trying to get a certain skill but when you do its pretty awesome feeling. Maybe they could find some kind of middle ground on that. Maybe initially it'll be like how it is right now, but when you get a certain item or something that you use to "pay" for in the fusion to have a choice. Except make the item on the rarer side. I'm not talking "Soma-level" rare though haha.

[Deified Data]

For example, likes take the fusion aspect of the SMT games. What if they removed the feature entirely, or dumbed it down incredibly just to make it easier for mainstream gamers to understand? I'm sure a lot of people here would hate that.


I actually wish more SMT games were like Devil Survivor in the fusion part because you can actually pick what skills will move on instead of praying not to spend hours until you are satisfied
I agree. In my view, Devil Survivor mixed the best of the old with the best of the new.

On one hand, you've got a story-driven game that focuses on character interactions, ala Persona. On the other, you've got the hardcore gameplay (ala escort missions; Lucifer), setting (post-apocalyptic Tokyo), and "Reason"-determined endings (ala the different character routes) of the main series.

Devil Survivor is is accesible enough to appeal to new fans (such as myself), but provides more than enough challenge for the old school set. If this game, along with Strange Journey, is any indicator of Atlus's direction for the series, I'm not disappointed in the least.