Persona PSP download - Really this is the best you can do?

[RainbowDespair]

Although I was pleased with the announcement that there will be a downloadable version of Persona PSP available at launch, I was less than pleased with the pricing. A barebones download of the game selling for the exact same amount as what is essentially a special edition of the game? That's downright pathetic.

I offer two possible solutions.

#1 - Reduce the price of the download. Digital distribution is much cheaper than normal retail distribution so pass some of those savings on to the consumer. Plus if you're getting just the game and not the game + soundtrack, then the price should reflect this.

#2 - Include a digital copy of the soundtrack with the download. If you're going to charge the same price for both versions, then both versions ought to have essentially the same content.

[landlock]

There the same price because the soundtrack is a extra for buying the game from the first batch at release. A extra you don't have to pay anymore for if the digital download is cheapier then surely the soundtrack is no longer a added extra but something we're paying extra for.

Anyway if your that bothered by a UMD version.

[RainbowDespair]

Digitally distributed games should be cheaper than that same game distributed by retail means: there's less overhead and you don't have to deal with manufacturing and shipping costs. There's no reason why a game that sells at Walmart for $40 couldn't sell for say $30 as a digital download and end up with both version making a similar amount of profit for the developer per game sold. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the digital copy would make more profit per game sold, even at a lower price tag. Plus digital distribution gives the developer other benefits such as eliminating the used game market & being able to be sold indefinitely (with retail, you have to worry about running out of supply plus retailers aren't going to keep old games in stock unless they continue to sell well).

Having to pay the same price for a digital copy as the physical copy is bad enough. Having to pay the same price for a digital copy as the special edition of game is practically insulting.

And yes, I know I have the option of picking up the UMD version. However, I generally prefer digital copies, partially for their convenience and partially for the fact that I'm not paying extra for things like manuals, boxes, a physical medium, and other things that just take up space and don't really offer any benefits for me personally.

Personally, I think the best solution is to offer the special edition of the game with the included music CDs at retail for $40 and offer just the game via digital means at $30. That should result in everyone being happy. Atlus is happy because they end up making about the same amount of money from both forms of distribution (whereas now, they'll make drastically more money per game sold digitally but by the same account, few people are likely to purchase the digital version). People who care about getting a physical copy & extras with their game are happy because it's offered at a reasonable price at retailers. And people who prefer digital copies of games are happy because they save a little money and don't have to pay extra for things they don't want. And retailers are happy because the two versions of the game aren't exactly the same (retail special edition version vs. cheaper digital standard version).

As it is now, it feels like Atlus is doing this because Sony forced their hand via the PSP Go rather than because they are trying to support their fans that prefer digital distribution.

[Yukichin]

Well, I kinda think that they don't want to do it because the "special edition" is supposed to be something to spoil those who bought it; it's not supposed to be paid extra, it's a "Congrats! We feel like giving you THIS!".

I would agree, though, that they should include the soundtrack on the digital version.

[Kenji]

I can understand the pricing point.

Unless I'm mistaken, one of the reasons Atlus USA wasn't so hot on digital distribution was because, with the lower cost for the downloaded game, they might not make back the localization costs. Since we aren't talking about an especially large company with a domestic fanbase of millions strong, this isn't a small matter.

If the PSN version of Persona were significantly cheaper than the UMD version, there'd be no practical reason for the UMD version to exist. Atlus USA would not only be receiving less money per copy, which would require more sales to hit the black, but would also have spent to print out UMDs that won't sell as well, potentially hurting overall profit more.

[RainbowDespair]

I would think that in the end, going with a primarily digital distribution means of distribution would be especially beneficial to a smaller company like Atlus USA since it means less overhead, no fear of overstocking, and the ability to sell games new indefinitely. However, I can understand how the actual transition from the tradition method of distribution to a digital one would entail some level of risk. I happen to think that having a tiered pricing system with digital and retail now with the intention to eventually move into a primarily digitally based system would end up making Atlus a lot of money, but I can see how there would be worries that in the short term it would lose money.

In the meantime, including a digital copy of the soundtrack with the digital download would be better than nothing. People shouldn't get penalized for preferring a digital copy to a hard copy, especially given that it's the PSP we're talking about (not using the UMD drive results in lower load times & increased battery life).

[grrouchie]

Digital distribution has been around for a while on the PSN and from all the examples I have looked at, the digital copy has been the same as an actual physical copy. Weather it's a PSP game or a PS3 game (Only referring to things currently on the market, not things like FF7, etc).

I also think you are looking at it wrong saying that the digital copy is being priced the same as a "special edition." There is no Special Edition, it's just pre-order gifts for pre-ordering the physical copy, therefore, in reality, it is apples to apples.

Also, I do think that the Digital copy should be the same price as the non digital copy. I don't see why someone should get a discount just because they don't have a physical copy.

To me this is exactly the same thing as music CD's and Itunes/Amazon/Whatever.

New CD comes out and I have the option of buying it for 10 bucks at Best Buy, or I can pay 10 bucks and buy it from itunes.

[Onion of Mystery]

Imagine you're a retail chain. You just bought $500k worth of product from a manufacturer. Then you learn that the manufacturer is selling the same product directly, for less than MSRP, with the same reach and scope of market. In short, that manufacturer is directly undercutting you and leaving you out to dry or to cut your own price and lose profit. Maybe you'd never want to do business with that manufacturer again.

So maybe it's not in the manufacturer's best interests to burn their bridges.

[RainbowDespair]

Imagine you're a retail chain. You just bought $500k worth of product from a manufacturer. Then you learn that the manufacturer is selling the same product directly, for less than MSRP, with the same reach and scope of market. In short, that manufacturer is directly undercutting you and leaving you out to dry or to cut your own price and lose profit. Maybe you'd never want to do business with that manufacturer again.

So maybe it's not in the manufacturer's best interests to burn their bridges.

And I can see how fear of retailer backlash would scare developers away from selling the same product digitally at a lower price (which is why it pleases me greatly when we have instances like with NIS's Badman where they decided to make it exclusively a digital download and dropped the price accordingly). However, if the two versions are noticeably different (like say the retail version is a special edition with the complete soundtrack and the digital version is just the game) and the more expensive retail version has more value to coincide with its higher price, then I would think that you wouldn't have problems with retailers.

And hey, if a lower price on the digital version is impossible without scrapping the UMD version, that still doesn't excuse charging just as much for the download while offering less. As it is now, if I want the digital version and a digital copy of the soundtrack, I either have to buy 2 copies of the game or buy the digital copy and then pay extra to try to buy the soundtrack off of someone who owns the UMD version and doesn't want it.

If the soundtrack is supposed to be a gift for early adopters, you could always make the digital copy of the soundtrack exclusive to people who purchase within the first few months.

On a side note, I look forward to the day when video games become like music and digital distribution is so lucrative than brick and mortar retailers will no longer have the kind of influence over the gaming industry that they do now.

[ShadowRaskolnik]

However you have to remember that the soundtrack is part of the Atlus Spoils program which are essentially free gifts for those who support the company through pre-ordering games. Since you don't really have to pre-order games through digital distribution then there is really no need to include any of the extras.

[RainbowDespair]

However you have to remember that the soundtrack is part of the Atlus Spoils program which are essentially free gifts for those who support the company through pre-ordering games. Since you don't really have to pre-order games through digital distribution then there is really no need to include any of the extras.

I thought they weren't preorder bonuses, but were rather included with the first shipment of the game itself. At least, that's what the box art of Persona PSP would lead me to believe ("2 Disk Soundtrack Included!). Like with Devil Summoner 2, I bought the game just a couple weeks ago and I still got the Jack Frost doll despite not being anywhere near a preorder since it was included in the box.

[four_black_hearts]

"While Supplies Last". ;)

[Ike.]

I would advise everybody on this forum to take an economics or business class so that we stop getting stupid threads like this.

[Kenji]

I would think that in the end, going with a primarily digital distribution means of distribution would be especially beneficial to a smaller company like Atlus USA since it means less overhead, no fear of overstocking, and the ability to sell games new indefinitely. However, I can understand how the actual transition from the tradition method of distribution to a digital one would entail some level of risk.
However, I don't think that Atlus USA can transition to pure digital distribution, and the proof for this is (indirectly) in the Atlus Spoils program: Atlus USA's primary customers, the ones that actually keep the company doors open, are the group of loyal fans that continue to buy titles that they publish, titles they might not buy had they been published by another distributor. The Spoils program is their way of reminding us that our support is appreciated, and they understand that alienating us would prove disastrous to their business (this is currently the principal difference between Atlus USA and NISA).

As you may have noticed, more than a few Faithful have expressed the sentiment that they prefer hard copies of their games. Moving to a pure digital distribution would make them feel left out, their loyalty would decrease, and Atlus USA would have to build a whole new fanbase.

Moving to the immediate, I'd like to acknowledge what Onion of Mystery said. It's a very good point and I hadn't thought of it. To refine my own argument, let me talk a bit about profit for Persona.

As we can reasonably conclude, there are two primary audiences for Persona: those who played Persona 3 and/or 4, and those who played Revelations: Persona. Sure, there'll be the people outside of these two categories, such as Atlus fans who decide to try the MegaTen franchise through this game or walk-ins who are PSP owners looking for games or who have heard of Persona before, but these are much smaller and can't be relied on. It also must be stressed that P1 isn't like P3 or P4, which have gameplay systems that you probably won't find anywhere else (certainly not in such a polished form): P1 is a hardcore dungeon crawler in an era where such games just aren't popular anymore.

A lower digital price requires Atlus USA to sell more copies than they would with the $40 UMD. Persona, as a game, is not well-equipped to convert Square-Enix fans or any other major JRPG pool. In other words, we can reasonably conclude that lowering the digital distribution price would only serve to upset the retailers, undercut UMD sales, and potentially keep the net project balance in the red.

As for a digitally distributed soundtrack, I think we can also reasonably conclude (as Atlus USA seems to have) that any fan who isn't interested in a physical copy of the OST, and wants it in mp3 form, already has those mp3s.

(If this last comment is out of bounds in regards to the rules, please tell me and I'll do something about it)

[PainKilleR-[CE]]

Let's put it this way: there are a very small number of NISA titles I do not own (at the moment I think that number is 2). Badman is one of them, and I had pre-ordered it.

People may say digital distribution is inevitable, and they're probably right. However, I won't be one of the people that supports something that has no real benefit to me just because it's 'inevitable'.

[Foobar]

Imagine you're a retail chain. You just bought $500k worth of product from a manufacturer. Then you learn that the manufacturer is selling the same product directly, for less than MSRP, with the same reach and scope of market. In short, that manufacturer is directly undercutting you and leaving you out to dry or to cut your own price and lose profit. Maybe you'd never want to do business with that manufacturer again.

So maybe it's not in the manufacturer's best interests to burn their bridges.

I kinda see the point, but this is just Sony and MS specifically placating retailers at the expense of them making a larger profit off digital distribution. Its just another way of showing you they don't have faith in the digital distribution model at all and don't really want to change.

So they placate retailers by maintaining retail price one digital downloads (which is utter nonsense) and placate those that want the convenience of digital distribution by allowing it to exist, but not to its full potential. Oh, and it allows Sony, MS and third parties to skim a little extra money of digital distribution.

Meanwhile Nintendo doesn't want to jump into that scale of digital distribution because they believe the potential of it can't be realized right now, so they stick to virtual console, Wii/DSi Ware and little else. Unfortunately, based of how Sony and MS handle full-oh digital distribution of retailed games, Nintendo is right. You may as well just buy it from the store unless you absolutely can't find it anywhere.

[Quig]

Although I was pleased with the announcement that there will be a downloadable version of Persona PSP available at launch, I was less than pleased with the pricing. A barebones download of the game selling for the exact same amount as what is essentially a special edition of the game? That's downright pathetic.

I offer two possible solutions.

#1 - Reduce the price of the download. Digital distribution is much cheaper than normal retail distribution so pass some of those savings on to the consumer. Plus if you're getting just the game and not the game + soundtrack, then the price should reflect this.

#2 - Include a digital copy of the soundtrack with the download. If you're going to charge the same price for both versions, then both versions ought to have essentially the same content.

Don't buy it then. The digital download is to accomodate the PSPgo.

[Quig]

The PSPgo is nice looking, but I like being able to look at my collection on a shelf. I only have 3 games on my PSP memory card and I am not really a fan of it. Looking at my collection is a hell-of-a-lot more rewarding because I can see where my money went.

[grrouchie]

I agree with "looking at the collection"
I love it. I love to beable to look at my games and go "cripes I can't believe I spent that much money on all this crap."

I also like my friends to beable to look at them in awe.

No one looks in awe at the 12 games on my PSP memory card.

[Fuyukaze]

I agree with "looking at the collection"
I love it. I love to beable to look at my games and go "cripes I can't believe I spent that much money on all this crap."

I also like my friends to beable to look at them in awe.

No one looks in awe at the 12 games on my PSP memory card.

I have 2400+ phisical games and no one looks at my collection in awe. Hell, I look at it and just pick my nose and scratch my junk.

I dont care for spending $$ on something that's simply a d/l license agreement though.

Also, I have no friends, I should maybe be sad for that.

All this is avoiding the topic of the thread. While it sounds good in theory, reducing the price of the d/l as mentioned isnt practicle and is a sure way of shooting your own foot. Include a digital copy? That sounds great but there's one problem. Let's say I buy my phisical copy. It's got that nifty digital coupon in there for the free d/l as well as the UMD. I take the d/l, sell the original (minus soundtracks) for 2/3 cost of full retail and suddenly, I got the game, someone else has the game, and only one copy had to be sold to make 2 people happy. Company only profits off one of the two customers there. That's kinda a big flaw. I could list the flaws with the d/l game as well but due to the nature and the potential issue the site's rules and regulations may have with it, I'll stop there.

[mikaylaaria]

Mikachu's random rant.
I'm hopelessly against digital distribution either way.
The only reason I bought Persona 4, Grim Grimoire, and many others out of my huge video game library was....
On a whim.
Ar tonelico? A whim.
Odin Sphere? Dark Cloud? Tales of Symphonia? Final Fantasy VII? .hack?
All whims.
All based upon: "Hey, that game looks kinda cool..."
You see, the only video game stores near me are about a half-hour drive away.
So, when I go there, I'd like to buy a game, because who know when I'll get another ride out there?
I also need to buy the PSN cards at those distant stores, because my credit card doesn't work with PSN.
SO: If I was to get a PSN card, and asuuming that I hadn't ever played Persona 4 (which compelled me to buy 3), I would have no curiosity to play the original.
If I had never gone into that video game store, and, by merely scanning covers, decided to buy Persona 4, I most likely would not want to buy Persona if it had no UMD release.
Heck, if it had no UMD release in the first place, I may not have bought it anyway!!
When NIS America announced Holy Invasion of Privacy Badman! would only be availabe via PSN, I immidiantly lost interest in a game I had prior considered purcasing.
Since Persona PSP is coming out as a UMD, I will most likely get it.
I'm only one person, standing against a wave of digital distribution.
Hello, PSP Go, and me making less purchases! Goodbye, careless days of discovering great video games via Russian Roulette.

[Foobar]

I don't understand people being anti-Digital Distribution entriely. We have to face facts here - once a game does stop selling, retailers probably will be less and less inclined to restock and the game becomes harder and harder to find.

This puts us back in the issue of the eBay vultures, those guys that run in and sweep up all the reprints of rare games to mark them up on an auction site. Some of these people do price reasonably and deliver the product, but some mark the stuff up dramatically. And there are people stupid enough to pay for that.

Just look at FFVII. I never understood why when it went out of print that its value skyrocketed. It was in-print for years and saw lots of market saturation. If I wanted to acquire the game again, I sure as hell wasn't going through the eBay crowd to get it - it wasn't worth what they were asking.

And please, let's not go into the opinions about the game, that's not what this is about.

Now its a $9.99 PSN download for PSP and PS3. Pretty much a far cry from the vulture offerings and a fairly reasonable price for a game that came out twelve years ago. Sure, no box or instructions, not discs to hold, but for a game that old I can do without that stuff.

And it being digitally distributed, it doesn't have to be taken off the virtual shelf, it will only be joined by a slew of other games as time moves on, so its not like the random experimentation factor is lost or anything. You just don't have anything to sell or trade-in if you don't like it.

In the case of an Atlus title, this means they don't have the be these rare limited releases anymore. Atlus can still do their special pre-order incentives with physical copies and people can also obtain Persona through DD.

[PainKilleR-[CE]]

I don't understand people being anti-Digital Distribution entriely. We have to face facts here - once a game does stop selling, retailers probably will be less and less inclined to restock and the game becomes harder and harder to find.
...
Now its a $9.99 PSN download for PSP and PS3. Pretty much a far cry from the vulture offerings and a fairly reasonable price for a game that came out twelve years ago. Sure, no box or instructions, not discs to hold, but for a game that old I can do without that stuff.

This is all well and good for re-issuing old titles that have been out of print for years onto a new generation of consoles, without any sort of rework on the title. For instance, if they were just going to release the version of Persona that came out on the PSX, I would support it being a digital-only distribution.

However, for new titles there's no benefit for the end user until the title goes out of print, and even then there are still plenty of chances to get better prices on physical copies than the digital distributions. The reason for this is the same reason most have stated as a benefit: the digital distribution doesn't take up space on a shelf, it go out of stock, and it costs very little to replicate indefinitely. I bought Jeanne d'Arc for $5 new because a store was clearing out their inventory, and you can check the price for the download of that one yourself (last time I looked it was $22, shortly after I purchased it). While not so great for Atlus, the recent Gamestop mark-down of The Dark Spire is another example where a digital download would probably cost more than the physical version.

I've been on the wrong end of the physical distribution model, too, with games like SMT: DDS 1 & 2, which for some reason I kept letting slide while I picked up other games (most of which were not nearly as good), or having missed Atlus' PS1 releases.

However, the "benefits" of digital distribution are primarily hype from the distributors, and if you take a look around you might notice that the smaller publishers (including Atlus) are among the last to start moving toward the digital model. There are reasons for this, and it's mostly speculation, but they are probably related to cost and the extra hoops that publishers seem to have to jump through to get games released. Look at Capcom's complaints, for instance, about trying to get simultaneous multi-platform releases in digital form, and they're a fairly large publisher with a large number of digital releases under their belt.

[Enzeru]

Are people complaining this much about Fate/Stay Night Portable being fully priced digitally, too? It's the same game. I like discounts on digital stuff, but not all digital game downloads have to be micro transactions.

[Soushi_Grapple]

Even though I own FFVII phsyically, I liked being able to download it at $10 just so I wouldn't mess up my discs. I like being able to play it portable, too. Like most said, if theyd release games like Brigandine: Legend of Forsena, Suikoden II, Panzar Dragoon Saga, all games upwards of $100, I'd download them for $20, $50, just to avoid the Ebay prices, but with newer games... I also like seeing where my money's gone. It reminds me how broke I am. XD I don't really care for digital download, mostly because all I have is a 360 which isnt free online and I have a dial up connection... but if it was readily availible... It sounds so materialistic to say I'd rather have my own personal copy than a download. It seems so fake to me. >>; Maybe if they made a console that had only downloadble games to that console. XD That'd be wierd~

[rainking187]

Are people complaining this much about Fate/Stay Night Portable being fully priced digitally, too? It's the same game. I like discounts on digital stuff, but not all digital game downloads have to be micro transactions.


I'd never pay full price for a DD title priced above $15.

[slayn]

I kinda see the point, but this is just Sony and MS specifically placating retailers at the expense of them making a larger profit off digital distribution. Its just another way of showing you they don't have faith in the digital distribution model at all and don't really want to change.

No, it isn't just Sony and Microsoft. Every publisher that releases games on Steam, for example, charges full price for the digital copy. If they don't, they risk pissing off retailers like Gamestop, and if you piss them off enough, they'll stop stocking a given publishers games. And, at least for predominantly console/handheld publishers, that's the kiss of death.

[mikaylaaria]

;128093']
I bought Jeanne d'Arc for $5 new because a store was clearing out their inventory, and you can check the price for the download of that one yourself (last time I looked it was $22, shortly after I purchased it).

Ehehe...
Is it bad this is one of the top reasons I'm against DD?
I like to buy used games. It's inexpensive, but with the added knowledge that someone had bought the game before for full price.
For example, I want the .hack series, particularly the older ones.
However they're never in stock. *sad*
So, here I come, eBay.
For around $20 bucks, I can buy a game that was previously around $50.
Next time I have the chance, I'm going to buy LocoRoco.
When I last saw it, it was $22. In the Media store it's $20 without the tax.
Because of the TAX on an internet downlooad I'd have to buy a $50 game card for the $20 game.
The only reason I have FF7 on my PSP is because my girlfriend bought it, and then let me go on her account and download it.

[Quig]

Digital downloads or physical copy? Quite frankly, it is a matter of preference. I do not mind either one. There are games that are not available in certain areas, thus making the digital download a great option. Personally, I spent $75 last year on a black label version of FFVII, and 15 months later FFVII is available for digital download for $10. It is kind of unsettling, but I have mint copy of the original which I like better. If Atlus was to put a digital download of Tactics Ogre up for digital download then I would buy it in a heartbeat. I do not have the money to spent $80+ on an actual copy. That is why I feel the format is a matter of convienence. Should they cost the same price? Yes, all new games cost between $30 - $40 dollars.

[slayn]

I spent $75 last year on a black label version of FFVII...

Tactics Ogre... I do not have the money to spent $80+ on an actual copy.

Does not compute.