OFFICIAL BLOG #3: Online Play

[AtlusAram]

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_logo_small.png
THE OFFICIAL BLOG — Entry #3 — Online Play

Part 3 of Demon’s Souls: The Official Blog will focus primarily on the game’s groundbreaking online functionality, going into detail about what fans can look forward to when the game lands in North America on October 6th.

Seamless Interconnectivity
Unlike many games with some online features, Demon’s Souls does not branch multiplayer into a separate menu or mode, forcing the player to interrupt the single-player experience so as to connect with other players. Because the online in Demon’s Souls is intended to enhance and enrich the single-player experience, it is in fact seamlessly integrated into the main campaign.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_11.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_11.bmp)

When the game begins, players who are connected online and logged into their PSN accounts will immediately get the sense that they are not alone. Other players can be seen as shades, non-corporal entities fading in and out of your plane of existence. It is just one of the many constant reminders the game offers that you are part of an interconnected world.

And on that note, the concept of interconnectivity, of each player having their own sphere of existence that can interface with other players’ spheres of existence, is something the game’s Director, Hidetaka Miyazaki, touched on in a recent video interview filmed exclusively for our panel at this year’s Anime Expo. Early on, the game’s developers wanted to create a game that placed emphasis on the single-player experience, yet also sought to enhance that experience with online elements. Thus, each player is playing their own game, but at times can accept help or offer it, stepping out of their games for a moment and into someone else’s.

Messages
Messages are the game’s ingenious built-in strategy system, allowing for others to leave tips, hints, and warnings for other players, perhaps preventing them from making a rather poor decision or entering an area they are ill-prepared for (because the game most certainly won’t try and help you). Within a few moments of starting a game, players are sure to notice messages scattered across the ground.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_22.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_22.bmp)

The notion of “shared learning” is huge in Demon’s Souls. For one, the game doesn’t care to hold the player’s hand one bit, and there are plenty of threats that won’t be discovered until it is too late. Because of this, the ability for players to pass on their lessons from their game to players in other games is crucial. The community is able to know more about the game, to better master the game, through indirect cooperation.

Moreover, should players find a message particularly useful, they are able to upvote them, which will accomplish two things: a) other players will be able to see that a number of people found the message useful, and may be more likely to heed the wisdom within, and b) the player that generated the message will receive health points in their game, something most players of Demon’s Souls will always have need for.

Players cannot leave any text as a message. The game uses a contextual template system, giving you phrases to choose from. Some have blanks, and upon being selected will then prompt you to fill in the blank as well from a list of relevant choices. For example, you might want to say “you must be **** soul level to proceed,” and upon selecting this choice another menu will open giving you a selection of soul levels in multiples of 10. This flexible system minimizes spam and unproductive messages while still offering a lot of variety to what can be communicated.

With as many secrets, traps, surprises, and unpredictable challenges as there are in the Kingdom of Boletaria, most will find the ability to teach and learn from other players vital to progress and fun.

Bloodstains
Perhaps one of the most talked about and creative components of the online play in Demon’s Souls is what happens when a player dies in their game. Now, whether by means of input error, misjudgment, or sheer incompetence, every single person who plays Demon’s Souls should expect to die at one point or another. The game is designed for it, and in fact becomes more enjoyable in parts once you are in fact deceased (and to be clear, death ends nothing, and there is plenty of game to be enjoyed as a spirit… we’ll touch on this later).

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_28.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_28.bmp)

When you die, a bloodstain appears on the ground in the location of your demise in the games of other players. When interacted with, the bloodstain will present these other gamers with a red ghost replay of your passing. Now, humor aside (and there is certainly no shortage of funny or embarrassing deaths to laugh at), these replays can be incredibly useful. In a game where enemies are often capable of dispatching you with a single blow, and where traps and hazards can overtake you before you have a chance to react, being able to watch such a sad fate befall someone else can be tremendously useful.

An example: you enter a small room with a steep staircase ascending along the wall opposite the entrance where you stand. At your feet is a bloodstain, with which you interact. A red apparition appears, charges up the stairs with courage, only to suddenly turn around with noticeable panic and then die at the base of the stairs in a most pitiable fashion. You interpret this, properly, as a hint that a threat may loom at the top of the staircase, and so you proceed with caution. As you take the first few steps up you suddenly notice an enemy atop the stairs is about to gleefully roll a giant cannonball toward you. However, because you were able to receive a preview of coming attractions, you are prepared and deftly roll dodge out of the way.

This kind of scenario plays out constantly in Demon’s Souls, and continuously highlights how much of a positive impact the game’s online elements can have on someone’s single-player experience.

Alive vs. Spirit Form
Before we address cooperative and competitive online play, it would be prudent to quickly touch on the difference between being alive and dead in Demon’s Souls.

On average, most players should expect to spend a majority of their time in spirit form in the realm of Boletaria. In spirit form (i.e. whilst dead), players will have their health cut in half, making fights that would otherwise be challenging into damn near impossible affairs. Now, players can acquire rare, powerful items that can mitigate the penalties of dying (e.g. a ring that reduces the percentage by which your health is cut, or one that helps your health slowly regenerate), but for the most part spirit form is not where most people will want to be.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_15.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_15.bmp)

That said, it is only as a spirit that players can offer their assistance to other players or break into another player’s game. It might at first seem strange for there to be such a restriction on the competitive and cooperative play in the game, but when the context becomes clear, it actually only serves to add to the tension. For example, player vs. player encounters are not supposed to be trivial, meaningless exchanges. Rather, and this is really where the game’s structure shines, the player breaking in is trying to steal the life of the other player, to revive themselves.

There are really only three ways for a player to restore their physical body: by defeating a boss, by using a rare item, or by means of online interaction with other players. The last of the three offers two options: players can enter another player’s game and assist them in slaying a boss, or they can force themselves into another player’s game and try to kill them and steal their life. Imagine then the suspense when you, as a living player, are suddenly notified by the game that someone has entered your world. Immediately, you know they are after only one thing: your soul, and they’ll likely stop at nothing to get it. Should you manage to defeat them, or advance to another region before they reach you, they’ll be sent back to their own game empty-handed.

As a living player, you are only able to summon assistance from spirit players who offer it, and of course, you are vulnerable to the break-in attempts of those in pursuit of your life force. It is a recipe for excitement and thrills, regardless of which side of things you’re on.

[AtlusAram]

Cooperative Play
Having established the relevance of spirit form to cooperative and competitive play, let’s take a look at the cooperative experiences you’ll have in Demon’s Souls.

As a living player, you will at times come across Soul Signs, glowing blue symbols on the ground that will at first resemble messages, but as you approach will also feature a transparent 3D projection of the player offering their help. You’re able to see the player’s name and how they have been ranked by others. Should they appear to be relatively competent, you can then summon them into your game. A moment later they will appear, and together you can then proceed.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_11.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_11.bmp)

They will be returned to their own game upon their death, your death, or the death of the area’s boss. Should you both (or the three of you, as the game does let you summon two other players at any one time) in fact survive the region’s boss, as the living player you can then rank your helpers. Soul points will be allocated based on how you rank their performance, so the better they did, the more points everyone receives, an incentive to bring your A-game when you’re helping someone else.

From the standpoint of the player offering help, all you need is to be in spirit form (which, as we’ve mentioned, isn’t all that hard considering how difficult the game is) and to use a special stone that you will receive after a little progress into the single-player game. With the stone, you can leave your Soul Sign, which is seen by other players, and then hopefully, a short while later, you’ll be fighting alongside another daring adventurer as you quest to deliver Boletaria from the Old One.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_19.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_19.bmp)

Competitive Play
The last aspect of online play we’ll touch on here is the game’s deliciously wicked player vs. player. Some fans have expressed a bit of anxiety at the prospect of being unable to stop others from violating their games. While it is easy to understand their trepidation, there is a simple means of keeping people out: stay dead.

This is, of course, not always possible, and this means that every now and then, living players who are connected to PSN will have some nasty folks try to break in and steal their lives. Yes, it is added stress, but also loads of fun, especially as you learn to master the game. You’ll never be penalized any more than losing all of the Soul points you’ve collected, meaning items or equipment can never be taken from you, so any progress lost, how many hours worth, is never irreplaceable.

http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_20.jpg (http://www.atlus.com/res/demonssouls_screens_20.bmp)

Anyways, back to competitive play, it is initiated similarly to cooperative play. Spirit form players need simply to use a special stone they will have in their inventory after a little bit of play to break into another game. There are some requirements and levels have to be within a certain range, so as to make things fair and interesting, so it is possible that you won’t always be able to find a game to break into, but eventually you’ll be violating other games with the best of them.

As the living player, as soon as you’re notified that someone is up to no good in your game, it is advised that you either prepare for battle or try to speed along (particularly if you’re near the region’s end), as you can often kick the invader out simply by getting into a boss fight or passing into another region.

Invading players, be warned: the player you're invading can summon up to two Blue Phantoms to aid them against you, making the prospect of killing them and reviving your physical body nearly impossible.

###

In the next entry we’ll answer more of your questions and tackle one of the game’s more unique (and overlooked) features: the World Tendency system.

Until then,
AtlusARAM

[Silent_gig]

Exellent Blog, Aram
This should clear up anyones questions about onine play.

[cimerians]

Cooperative Play

......as you can often kick the invader out simply by getting into a boss fight or passing into another region.

Players being invaded, be warned: up to three other players can break into your game at any given time. Even at half health, three different human-controlled foes can pose all sorts of headaches. Try to be on your toes at all times.



Well its a nice explanation sort of.

Maybe the US version is different but in the Asian version I could NOT fight a boss when a black phantom (invader) appeared if this is what the admin is talking about.

The following site explains a lot.
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/online

"PvP

In addition to the Blue Eye Stone, Demon's Souls has the "Black Eye Stone" and it has a slightly different function. It allows a player to force their way into another adventurer's game to take the place of that area's Boss Demon. The adventurer who uses the Black Eye Stone becomes the "Black Phantom" and must either be defeated by the defending adventurer or kill the adventurer to gain Souls!

If the invading player fails to kill the host, or somehow dies by the environment of the stage (falling, fireball in 1-x) but not by hosted or a blue phantom player, your Soul Level will decrease, deducting a level from your highest stat."

[ReaperX30]

I got killed once by a Black Phantom (the guy invading) but it was a close fight and very polite like bowing before and after the fight and starting when everyone was ready. Another time the guy (another Black Phantom)didn't fight me but instead asked me to follow him and he helped me clear the level and get the treasures. I had like 14000 souls so it helped a lot. Then he bowed and dissapeared. It is stressfull when you see the message that someone has broken into your game but I guess not everyone is out to get you.......or maybe I was just lucky. Can't wait to try the US version.

[recsouza]

Hi guys, first I would like to thank you for the best PS3 game I have ever played, that's Demon's Souls. BUT I have a question, I am really disapointed with the fact that I have been playing this game for over 200 hours, I beat it more than 8 times, I have all the weapons and everything BUT the PURE BLADESTONE. Is this a big bug in the game? Not droping this stone? Several foruns and discussion lists about this game are crowded of people with the same problem. May Atlus fix this? Or at least say how to have the Pure Bladestone "easily"? I don't wanna play more 200 hours just looking for this ore. Thank you in advance, Rodrigo.

http://i43.tinypic.com/rqz0nn.png

[Pibbman]

you know I've been curious about something, for those of us who pick up the standard release, will we be able to pick up the strategy guide later on, or are we forced to get the deluxe version for it?

Personally if I decide to get this game, I most likely won't know if I want a strategy guide or not until I play the game.

[recsouza]

you know I've been curious about something, for those of us who pick up the standard release, will we be able to pick up the strategy guide later on, or are we forced to get the deluxe version for it?

Personally if I decide to get this game, I most likely won't know if I want a strategy guide or not until I play the game.

I bet we are going to have a chance to buy just the guide. Have you got the asian version?

[Pibbman]

nope.

[ReaperX30]

Having played the game I can tell you that the guide will be usefull for multiple reasons. Forging weapons, Boss Strategies and more.

[AtlusAram]

There are currently no plans for the strategy guide to be sold independent of the deluxe edition. This may change, but it is unlikely.

[Enzeru]

Why Atlus? Why must this be a PS3 game? ;_;
I shall downvote your Soul Rating!

[Pibbman]

Pretty sure they'll have more PS3 games coming soon.

[pedrovay2003]

Ah, I was wondering why the Asian version of this game didn't have any voice chat, but looking at exactly how online works, I guess vocal communication is kind of unnecessary, huh?

[Senku]

Should you both (or the three of you, as the game does let you summon two other players at any one time) in fact survive the region’s boss, as the living player you can then rank your helpers. Soul points will be allocated based on how you rank their performance, so the better they did, the more points everyone receives, an incentive to bring your A-game when you’re helping someone else.

So, what if the player that I just helped decides to be a jerk and gives me a low rating? Will he be able to hoard all the souls for themselves?

Invading players, be warned: the player you're invading can summon up to two Blue Phantoms to aid them against you, making the prospect of killing them and reviving your physical body nearly impossible.

Good to know.

But man, talk about tension city; a race against time to see if you can summon helpers before the invader reaches you.

[Silent_gig]

Should you both (or the three of you, as the game does let you summon two other players at any one time) in fact survive the region’s boss, as the living player you can then rank your helpers. Soul points will be allocated based on how you rank their performance, so the better they did, the more points everyone receives, an incentive to bring your A-game when you’re helping someone else.

So, what if the player that I just helped decides to be a jerk and gives me a low rating? Will he be able to hoard all the souls for themselves?


That doesnt happen, people are actually thoughtful in thier scores when rating others. They call for YOUR help and if you do your part youll get a good score. No one will mess you about, rest assured.

[SpiritThief]

This is just stupid. Its not even a pvp system. Its more like a lame cheap pk system. I was really looking forward to this. Thinking its going to be the next great dungeon crawler. But I don't think that will happen now.

If I wanted forced pk, I would go play one of the 1000s of cheap f2p mmos. And the only means of keeping YOUR game to YOUR self is to stay dead. Which you've already admitted means you pretty much can't do anything. Oh wait there's the not log in part too :bs:

I was all on board with everything until I heard about this stupid pk system that you call pvp. PVP is when both parties WANT to fight.

Give us a real single player option. Or a carebear option, all the good stuff without the a..holes.

[Enzeru]

Give us a real single player option.
Don't connect to the internet lol?

[Umbasa]

Black phantoms aren't that big of a deal. You've already got the advantage over them by having a full health bar and being able to summon two other players to help you.

It's all part of the shared world component. You can't have all the things that make the game easier without accepting the dangers.

If they ever do make a way to stop players from invading, like for a sequel, it would have to be a punishing item like pair of rings that require both slots or a shield that must be equipped but has 0/0/0 blocking power and requires a demon's soul to make.

[jonmarek]

They should do something for people who imported it before they knew it was coming to NA. Like a trade in deal where you get a discount on the NA Version.

That way they make money that they otherwise wouldn't, because I'm sure a lot of importers aren't going to spend another 60 bucks on what is essentially the same game. Its just a thought.

Also Because the game isn't region locked how hard would it be to patch the game to allow people from the NA with an import copy to play on the US servers? Even if they charged money for the patch they would still be making money right? Anyway just some thoughts.

[Onion of Mystery]

Atlus USA only has the rights to the North American distribution of the game. Making changes to the other versions is beyond our scope and probably illegal, too.

As to a "buyback" program... What the heck would we do with a huge pile of JP and Asian Demon's Souls?

[mlisette23]

As to a "buyback" program... What the heck would we do with a huge pile of JP and Asian Demon's Souls?

Throw them at people...j/k;)

[Mooglepies]

Very interesting, thanks. Signed up here to read and comment on these sorts of things, greetings everyone! I'm resident in the UK, currently playing through the Asian version but have, ironically, placed a preorder for the "stop importing it" edition. I did laugh. Thanks for picking this game up by the way, it deserves a fair chance.

I've been playing for 40+ Hours and I've never seen more than one black phantom player at the same time; certainly more than one in the same level (farming them is rewarding, unpredictable and fun) but never at the same time. Did you mean at the same time or something else? I'd also like to clarify whether you can move onto bosses while a black phantom is in, as I think that might be new as well.

On topic, You're unlikely to be able to get hold of blue phantoms once a black phantom is in. You only get told about the break in once he's already in and running around, and given that they spawn at the start of the level, which is where around 90% of summon marks are found, it's pretty hard. Occasionally a black phantom runs ahead of you, avoiding combat until he has standard AI enemy backup; these are the dangerous ones where you will want backup. They're also more entertaining.

When you start playing black phantom players seem an incredibly bad thing, but as you progress it turns into a real thrill, and you begin to relish the idea of some competition.

Co-op play is really, really fun, and I think one of the only ways to gain positive character tendency. Sometimes it really annoys me when a wellmeaning player revives me after summoning as I only want to play a game for a while, but it's all good.

[beastxjason]

Tower of latria hrs spent getting to the end of it bam black phantom player! " Why you little #$@%" I say. Smoked him, woohoo got lucky. I agree very thrilling but those kind of players that wait at the end of the lvl are just plain cheeseballs. I mean thats dirty pool man lol

[Mooglepies]

I was in 3-2 and a black phantom invaded me. He had a Flamberge (large 2 handed sword) and we were on narrow bridges. He knocked me clean off the edge by about 10-20 feet. Amusing, but harsh.

[Darkenmal]

this game looks insane! :P

[NeoReaper]

Can a level 124 black phantom invade a level 17 players game & own him or is there a cap if so anybody know what it is? Thanks!:confused:

[mccrackey]

Can a level 124 black phantom invade a level 17 players game & own him or is there a cap if so anybody know what it is? Thanks!:confused:

I've been wondering this, too. I know I've joined a game or two as a blue phantom that were way above my level... Rare, but it's happened.

[Mooglepies]

You can only interact directly with players +/- 10 levels above/below you.

[mccrackey]

Ah. I'm level 70 and still on my first playthrough. Maybe I got dumped into a level 80's new game + or something. I'm trying to level up fairly evenly so I can use certain weapons, so I feel rather weak...

[Lionsword]

Thank you, Aram, for posting these FAQ's. It helps those of us who didn't grab the import version, but have been anxiously waiting for the NA release.

I have to admit, I'm a little leary myself about the forced PvP, but from what I've read, it works really well so I'll reserve judgement until I experience it myself.

McCrackey, what part of KS you from?

[progz]

Atlus,

Please add some sort of "Invite Friend" into the NA version of the game. I noticed in the other versions you can not do this.

I actually already pre order the game. I bought the deluxe version and regular version. So my brother and I can play together. But from what I heard as of right now you have to go through this big process to even play with a friend. Please Atlus I'm begging you, add this feature in this game. Its all it needs, and I'm sure a lot of people would like it also! :) Also I wanted to know if any downloadable content will be coming out for the NA version? Like maybe new items, new rares? Has any already came out for the other versions?

Please respond to my post!

~Thanks!

[mccrackey]

Thank you, Aram, for posting these FAQ's. It helps those of us who didn't grab the import version, but have been anxiously waiting for the NA release.

I have to admit, I'm a little leary myself about the forced PvP, but from what I've read, it works really well so I'll reserve judgement until I experience it myself.

McCrackey, what part of KS you from?

Wichita, baby! Haha... just moved here from farther south.

[christina2009]

I think this is enough .....
I do agree with you. Those are the most effective way
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[NeoReaper]

Atlus,

Please add some sort of "Invite Friend" into the NA version of the game. I noticed in the other versions you can not do this.

I actually already pre order the game. I bought the deluxe version and regular version. So my brother and I can play together. But from what I heard as of right now you have to go through this big process to even play with a friend. Please Atlus I'm begging you, add this feature in this game. Its all it needs, and I'm sure a lot of people would like it also! :) Also I wanted to know if any downloadable content will be coming out for the NA version? Like maybe new items, new rares? Has any already came out for the other versions?

Please respond to my post!

~Thanks!

same here. i want to buy another copy for my brother but no invite a friend sucks. u would make more money this way atlus. theres two people who would spend $120.00 more just for there buddies to play with them. what about coop not splitscreen. same console coop.

[sarshelyam]

They've explained in numerous interviews and responsed why a Friend Invite doesn't work with this game...please...move on...it isn't going to happen and it shouldn't!

[mccrackey]

Atlus,

Please add some sort of "Invite Friend" into the NA version of the game. I noticed in the other versions you can not do this.

I actually already pre order the game. I bought the deluxe version and regular version. So my brother and I can play together. But from what I heard as of right now you have to go through this big process to even play with a friend. Please Atlus I'm begging you, add this feature in this game. Its all it needs, and I'm sure a lot of people would like it also! :) Also I wanted to know if any downloadable content will be coming out for the NA version? Like maybe new items, new rares? Has any already came out for the other versions?

Please respond to my post!

~Thanks!

same here. i want to buy another copy for my brother but no invite a friend sucks. u would make more money this way atlus. theres two people who would spend $120.00 more just for there buddies to play with them. what about coop not splitscreen. same console coop.

Look... if you're within ten levels of one another, just coordinate over the phone, and one of you can drop your soul stone in an obscure place in a level, and the other can pick it up and voila!

[Blitz]

the only thing i dont like is not enabled voice chat in coop,i remember when in beginning i talked with mine friend on telephone during the whole play :)

anyway,great game,probably top3 ps3 games ;)

[Umbasa]

People wanting in-game voice chat are just going to have to wait for Sony to implement cross-game voice chat on the PS3. Nothing would break the atmosphere more than a black phantom breaking into your game just to berate or shout obscenities at you or being told what to do by whiny players.

[Blitz]

yes,that would ruined atmosphere...but like in every game there should be mute option :tongue: anyway,if someone wanna do some trade add me,blitzkrieger001,220lvl and going up :grouphug:

[Mounce]

Mic would ruin the game somewhat, Eh. I prefer how it is.

[iloveatlus]

i want to play with some of atlus employee when this get released

[DH321]

I've never played this game before and I can't wait for it at all. But when you die in SOUL FORM, what happens? Do you respawn as another soul or what... Stupid question but I'm curious.

And what if you die as a blue soul while helping someone else? Do you get forced back into your world or do you respawn in theirs?

[Mooglepies]

Dying in Soul Form has no penalties other than having your souls removed and being punted back to the beginning of the level.

If you die as a Blue Phantom, you get punted back to your own world, where you left it.

[ThePortableGamer]

So, it sounds like the only way to get help is by busting in on other folks or asking for it. I'm playing online right now, and I see the shades of other warriors, but when I run up to them, I can't do anything interactive. Is there a setting I'm missing? Frustrating! :):seesaw:

[Mooglepies]

The shades are simply for show.

To interact with people you use the eye stones; if you're in soul form you can drop a soul mark with the blue one (lets alive players summon you) or use the black one to find an alive player to invade.

If you're in Body Form, you can be invaded by other players but you'll also see soul marks on the floor (like the pink messages, but blue) that let you summon players in.

[skidpro]

Are we UK people who import the game from USA as its not being released in Europe going to be able to play online?

[Mooglepies]

Unless they intend to block non-US IP addresses, (no indication of that thus far) there should be no issues.

[deny_everything]

Does difficulty scale with added blue phantoms?

[Mooglepies]

No. Blue Phantoms join the game of their host though, so in theory you could be summoned to a player's New Game+ if you're of similar level to them.

[triplehz_rulez]

If anybody wants to add me on psn and play demons souls with me when it comes out just add me it's triplehz_rulez....at least finally there is a good looking RPG and i don't have to try and look to bethesda for it anymore after the way they did ps3 fans so UP theirs....this has to be my GOTY....was looking forward to dragon age origins but this is looking so much better

[wkdkicksass28]

When we're playing Demon's Souls can we use the wireless headset to talk to fellow players?

[Mooglepies]

Nope. No communication by text or chat. You get a fair few emotes to use though.

[breedob]

Just checking these forums and just to let you know you can text chat via the XMB. Just set up a chat room and invite a friend in and it means you can let them know where in a level you will drop your soul sign and also any tactics you want to discuss before starting the level or during it. It's helped me alot!

[Mounce]

Just checking these forums and just to let you know you can text chat via the XMB. Just set up a chat room and invite a friend in and it means you can let them know where in a level you will drop your soul sign and also any tactics you want to discuss before starting the level or during it. It's helped me alot!

Ya, nothing like stopping randomly in a possibly-safe zone to wait for someone to go to their XMB, start a text message.....wait for a reply....read it, chat some more, then get back into the game! How joyous! The stalls from the gameplay! rofl....

Sounds sorta sad, no offense. Is like taking little babysteps, one at a time with someone because ones too afraid to walk alone in the dark, Haha.

[deny_everything]

I'm a little confused with the Red Eye Stone. What are the differences between the Red Eye Stone and the Black Eye Stone?

With the Red Eye Stone do you still have decreased life? It seems strange to duel on uneven ground.

Since you are summoned for a "duel" as opposed to invading are there different characteristics to where and when you get placed into the game?

Do you get to choose who you offer yourself to duel with? It seems like that could be a way of creating an ad hoc solution to allowing co-op with specific friends.

Also on the White Eye Stone, if you get dismissed do you get your body back?

[Karkarov]

I'm a little confused with the Red Eye Stone. What are the differences between the Red Eye Stone and the Black Eye Stone?

With the Red Eye Stone do you still have decreased life? It seems strange to duel on uneven ground.

Since you are summoned for a "duel" as opposed to invading are there different characteristics to where and when you get placed into the game?

Do you get to choose who you offer yourself to duel with? It seems like that could be a way of creating an ad hoc solution to allowing co-op with specific friends.

Also on the White Eye Stone, if you get dismissed do you get your body back?

I can't say for sure about the "dueling" stone but I don't think you need to be dead to use it. I am just about 100% sure you can't choose who to use it on though. As for the blue phantom question, if you die in the players game you were co op'ing with then you get sent back to your unaltered game. Since you didn't kill a boss with them you definitely do not get your body back for that. To get your body you have to clear the whole area with them including the boss.

[Eskol]

IMO I would like to see a more friend compatible Online Play, I have 2 brothers and a brother in law that I have hyped up about this game, I think it would be swell to jump in and invite my buddies to play along with me, or maybe ther might be some way to locate their worlds or for them to find mine? I mean maybe just an option that atlus could add later, and for now the multiplayer is good(i'm sure it will be) but once the worlds die down and i need some help how can I get help if I can't find my buddies on dead servers?

p.s. this is a small concern and very uneducated, I don't understand everything that goes into making it possible to play with friends and whatnot

[ZomDizae]

I'm a little confused with the Red Eye Stone. What are the differences between the Red Eye Stone and the Black Eye Stone?

With the Red Eye Stone do you still have decreased life? It seems strange to duel on uneven ground.

Since you are summoned for a "duel" as opposed to invading are there different characteristics to where and when you get placed into the game?

Do you get to choose who you offer yourself to duel with? It seems like that could be a way of creating an ad hoc solution to allowing co-op with specific friends.

Also on the White Eye Stone, if you get dismissed do you get your body back?

I can't say for sure about the "dueling" stone but I don't think you need to be dead to use it. I am just about 100% sure you can't choose who to use it on though. As for the blue phantom question, if you die in the players game you were co op'ing with then you get sent back to your unaltered game. Since you didn't kill a boss with them you definitely do not get your body back for that. To get your body you have to clear the whole area with them including the boss.
You *need* to be in soul form to use the Redeye stone since you'll be summoned by the one wishing to duel you in his world. Leaving your own world only works if you're dead.period
And yes, you still have "decreased life" if dueling using the redeye stone.
But that's a moot-point really; PvP *is* uneven ground: you have your choosen equipment and stat distribution while your opponent has his choosen stuff. Remember, this is not a turn based game or something like WoW or the like. The combat system is on the responsive action side, like a slow devil may cry if you will, so in the end skill and comfort with a weapon of choice is way more important than some little vitality difference. (sorry for my grammar, hope that made sense)

[deny_everything]

So what exactly is the difference between the two stones then?

Black you invade, but red you create a soul sign to get permission to enter their world, the same way you would with a blue soul stone?

[ZomDizae]

So what exactly is the difference between the two stones then?

Black you invade, but red you create a soul sign to get permission to enter their world, the same way you would with a blue soul stone?
Black eye: Forcibly inavde an other player's game.

Red eye: Put a red soul-sign on the floor so that a player can choose if he wants to duel you.

As you can see the only difference is how you go into an opponent's world. Everything else (allowed level range, being in soul form, red-glow around character model etc.) works exactly the same.

[deny_everything]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks.

[Karkarov]

All this makes me wonder about the tournament they did in japan. There are video's of it on youtube but no info on how it was set up, hosted, etc etc. It would be pretty cool if we had some events like this stateside as well.

[ZomDizae]

All this makes me wonder about the tournament they did in japan. There are video's of it on youtube but no info on how it was set up, hosted, etc etc. It would be pretty cool if we had some events like this stateside as well.
Tournaments are simple to set up: first things first, make rules like allowed number of herbs, allowed magic etc.
Next is the playing field - decide on an area and the summoner(player in body form) "draws" a line in the middle of the field with 'augite of guidance'(those are items which generate a glowing particles on the ground)

Now,
the two combatants are in soul form, one red the other blue. They both have to be in the summoner's level range and drop their respective stones (redeye/blueeye). The summoner will now summon both combatants to his world where the marked play-field is. He will also act as the referee.

Yes, that's basically it, each combatant takes a side of the line and waits for the referee to give the "starting shot"(Rage of God miracle works best). Battle starts.

[CUR715]

That's what i've been doing on Saturday afternoons. :D

4-1 is the perfect arena. At around soul level 120 there are literally dozens of Blue markers on the floor, and you get Black Phantom invaders, about once every 60 seconds.

Great PvP fun!

[ZomDizae]

That's what i've been doing on Saturday afternoons. :D

4-1 is the perfect arena. At around soul level 120 there are literally dozens of Blue markers on the floor, and you get Black Phantom invaders, about once every 60 seconds.

Great PvP fun!
Oh right! Was planning on de-leveling my red haired guy to 120 one of these days so I can join one of your little tournaments. I'll shoot you a message when I do. (Or maybe I'll bring my Temple chick up to 120... have yet to decide)

[Karkarov]

Oh right! Was planning on de-leveling my red haired guy to 120 one of these days so I can join one of your little tournaments. I'll shoot you a message when I do. (Or maybe I'll bring my Temple chick up to 120... have yet to decide)

Wait a minute here... you can actually choose to drop levels?

[ZomDizae]

Oh right! Was planning on de-leveling my red haired guy to 120 one of these days so I can join one of your little tournaments. I'll shoot you a message when I do. (Or maybe I'll bring my Temple chick up to 120... have yet to decide)

Wait a minute here... you can actually choose to drop levels?
Yes but it's a bit time consuming;
While invading a game, if you get yourself killed by anything but the player(falling from cliffs, traps, etc.), you'll level down. Also there's a certain someone who can level you down but I won't spoil more.

[NeverFinal]

Can you go through your first NG(new game) offline and then when you complete your first time through go into NG+ online from there???

or is it like once you go offline your characters stuck offline vise versa for online

[ZomDizae]

Can you go through your first NG(new game) offline and then when you complete your first time through go into NG+ online from there???

or is it like once you go offline your characters stuck offline vise versa for online
Yes that's not a problem; Just load the game with the cable plugged in/signed in and the game automatically uses the online functions.

[NeverFinal]

Thanks for clarifying ZomDizae. Least now i can run through offline and get the feel and then jump in with people later on...w00t

[Karkarov]

Fair warning all info I find says it is actually easier if you play online your first time since without it you wont get player hints or have the co op option.

[ZomDizae]

Fair warning all info I find says it is actually easier if you play online your first time since without it you wont get player hints or have the co op option.
You forgot something... Black Phantoms invading your game and slaying you to bits. You seriously don't think that experienced import players getting the NA version won't butt in your game and slay you to bits do you?

I'm already prepared to hear a lot of bitching about this matter.

Hmm... I could easily build a dragon Halberd +5 at S.level 15 and one-shot newbies... :seesaw:

[Karkarov]

You forgot something... Black Phantoms invading your game and slaying you to bits. You seriously don't think that experienced import players getting the NA version won't butt in your game and slay you to bits do you?

I'm already prepared to hear a lot of bitching about this matter.

Hmm... I could easily build a dragon Halberd +5 at S.level 15 and one-shot newbies... :seesaw:

I am not forgetting that but it doesn't really concern me. If you are afraid of phantoms you can always just kill yourself and play in soul form. Also I would hope at least "some" of the vets would have better things to do at launch than just invade other people over and over ;p.

[Jorlen]

(I would have made this in its own thead but apparently I can't post new threads yet? Any details on that?)

Multiplayer in Demon's souls is very unique and it can get a little complicated at first, so I just wanted to provide some point form facts to keep in mind. It's a tweaked version of the guide I made myself for reference:


OFFLINE NOTES:

- The game can be played offline entirely. You will not see player messages and obviously never get invaded. Lots of player hints give away surprises that you'd normally have to experience, so it depends on what you want to do and how you want to play the game.

- If you want to switch from offline to online play, this can be done with the same character easily. Just disable auto-login, when you start/continue a game, it will show you the PSN connection screen; you can simply exit it and it will switch to offline mode

- If you want to be online all the time, just keep your PS3 on auto-sign in.


HUMAN / SOUL FORM NOTES:

- In soul form, you cannot be invaded by a phantom player, ever

- In soul form, you can either invade OR help a player in HUMAN FORM (more on that below)

- Playing in soul form can be beneficial in the latest patch (1.04 asian patch, I'm guessing the NA version will come patched with this) - it depends on your goals. In soul form, if you die you will not shift World Tendency towards black. Also you never get invaded. Shifting World Tendency towards black makes the game MORE challenging. This is VERY important and it's a noticeable difference.


CO-OP / PVP AND STONES:

- When you OFFER AID, you must be in soul form and use the Blue Eye stone. When you're in co-op in this method, you cannot interact with NPCs or items that are dropped / found - only PLAYER-DROPPED items (i.e. for a trade) can be interacted with. If you both succeed at killing the boss, you get revived.

- When you NEED AID, you have to be in human form and use the Blue Eye Stone. Also the boss for that particular level MUST BE UNDEFEATED.

- During Co-op (one human, one soul form) you can be invaded by a black phantom but only one black phantom at a time. So a total of 3 players (2 co-op, 1 evil) can be had at once

- The White Eye stone is used to either banish a co-op partner (you're human) or to leave a co-op game (you're in soul form)

- When you want to INVADE a random player's game, you must be in soul form and use the Black Eye stone. If you kill him, you get souls. If you die, you loose a soul level (your highest stat gets -1). While in phantom mode, enemies won't aggro you, and if you kill enemies the souls go to the host, not you.

- As an invader it's the same as being in soul form in co-op - you cannot interact with objects / items

- The Red Eye stone is used to PVP another player who's also using this stone (not an invade - it's consented PVP) - this item is acquired via the "evil ending" of the game.

- As far as an INVADER BECOMING THE BOSS, it only happens for one particular boss (you can look it up - trying to avoid spoiler)


WHERE TO USE STONES:

Taken from the Demon's souls wiki (http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/online) and very important to understand:

"Note there are some regions in each level where the game does not allow using colored eye stones. Try equipping a colored stone in your [] use slot, walk around and observe it change from ghosted near an archstone (stone not usable) to un-ghosted (usable) as you move around. Look for messages like "You can summon here", often near the start of a level and just before the boss door, for the most common places to use the stone to ask for/offer help. Also, each level is separated into zones divided by the fog door locations you encountered the first playthrough. A stone sign you place is only good while you are in the same zone of the level, so when you pass the location of a fog door, any stone sign you have left in the previous zone will "fade", and you can place another in the current zone as you play on. You will experience this if you put down a Blue sign, but instead of waiting around for a summons, just proceed through the level yourself while waiting."

[ZomDizae]

...Also I would hope at least "some" of the vets would have better things to do at launch than just invade other people over and over ;p.
There's some truth to this since the "natural" course of action with Demon's Souls online functions *seems* to be to invading others games till the novelty wears off and after that rather help people as a blue phantom.
However, if you need your body back fast and don't want to waste a stone, quickly killing some unsuspecting wanderer is the most effective way, veteran or not.

Also if you're aiming for pure black character tendency, it's part of the job.

That being said, I'll probably hunt 2 or 3 people just for #####&giggles and after that offer my services on the good side. (-_^)

[Karkarov]

Well I am sure after you one shot the 20th newb in a row and shift most of your worlds plus yourself partially/mostly black just for giggles the mystique will probably wear off ;p.

Besides I think the pvp element adds a certain level of fun to it. You are talking to a guy who played a WoW pvp server, WAR, and Age of Conan after all. The constant threat of some guy ganking me just for the hell of it isn't new. If anything this is refreshing, I know the ganker wont have 3+ friends with them anymore for example.

This springs some questions though... Does the invader get your souls when he kills the target, if not do they get any at all? Does the target if slain lose souls, and if so can they get them back the usual way? Does the invader "succeed" if the target is killed by mobs or an environmental hazard before they can slay them?

Lastly, we will need to set up some pvp tournaments sooner rather than later! I have enjoyed the few japanese tourney vids I can find. Lots of different weapon choices and play styles to examine.

[SasugaRIVAL]

Here is a question I was wondering about...

Let's say you are in body form, and you've been playing for a while and are about to find someplace safe to quit.

Next then you know you get a message "Black Phantom XXX has invaded" blah blah.

What happens if you quit? Does he get souls? Does he just get kicked out?

[Jorlen]

Here is a question I was wondering about...

Let's say you are in body form, and you've been playing for a while and are about to find someplace safe to quit.

Next then you know you get a message "Black Phantom XXX has invaded" blah blah.

What happens if you quit? Does he get souls? Does he just get kicked out?

Good question!

[Karkarov]

The answer to that one is he gets kicked out, he does not pass go, does not collect $200.00, and definitely does not get his body back.

Using this as a trick to save yourself from invasion is also the height of bad play and cowardice.

[Impurecelestine]

So what happens if you are a black phantom and you lose? Do you have to try and kill someone else? What if you die in soul form O.o? (lol sorry for the noobish question but I just realized IDEK what would happen..)

[ZomDizae]

Some clarifying:

1.The BP(invader) will only get his body back, there's no other reward to be gained by killing the target(player in body form)

2.IF blue phantoms are with the target, and the BP manages to kill one, he'll get a certain % of the amount of souls the defeated opponent was carrying. (The exact formula I do not know)

3.If the BP gets killed by the player OR one of his blue phantom companions, whoever delivered the killing blow gets a certain % of the amount of souls the BP was carrying. Unless...

4.If the BP has 0 souls in his possesion and gets killed by the player OR one of his blue phantom companions, THE BP WILL LEVEL-DOWN(loose one soul level)!

5.If the BP falls to his doom or gets killed in any other fashion than direct hits from his target, he will level down!

6.Finally, to win your body back while invading, the only requirement is a dead target, meaning, the invaded player can slip and fall to his doom - you'll still get the message "The target was destroyed" & you get your body back.

Note on white-eye stone: If a BP uses the white-eye stone to leave the target's world, there's a low chance that he will level down. Using the white-eye stone as a BP is similar to loosing the battle.

[Sferzar]

Oh wow so invading is a big gamble, unless you know what you are doing.

[SasugaRIVAL]

The answer to that one is he gets kicked out, he does not pass go, does not collect $200.00, and definitely does not get his body back.

Using this as a trick to save yourself from invasion is also the height of bad play and cowardice.

Bleh forget bad play and cowardice... if I gotta go I gotta go... not gonna be late to work cause some asshole decides to invade

[Karkarov]

Totally agree Sasuga, that comment isn't aimed at you in any way. More of a general heads up for anyone reading that doing it simply to escape a invasion is frowned on for obvious reasons. I have a bad feeling some players will probaby do it quite often :/