Issue #12: THE PROCESS

[AtlusAram]

http://www.atlus.com/res/general_header_atlusfaithful_productiondiary.png
12 - "The Process" by Nich Maragos, Editor

“Six months!? Why six months!?”

“How hard can it be to translate a simple game like this?”

“There’s no reason* why it should be taking them that long.”

It may or may not surprise you to learn that Atlus U.S.A., Inc., like any other company, keeps tabs on Internet response to its games, and the above is a relatively common sentiment expressed on forums here and there. A specific recent example came when someone claimed that “All you have to do is translate 100ish lines of text, something a single person with decent skill can do in an afternoon, alter some graphics, get another guy to proof read, charge $20, and you are good to go.” Now, past production diaries have gone into detail about each step in the process, but the big picture—the overall, start-to-finish procedure of publishing a localized game—might not be apparent to everyone. So here it is, the answer to the question on many people’s minds: why does it take so long?

Step 1: Familiarization (1-3 weeks)

Before we begin work on a game, we need to know what we’re dealing with. For most games we license from other companies, this happens after the game is released in Japan; for most games originating with our parent company, this happens sometime after the developers have a manufacturer-approved master build. During this step, the project lead oversees the receipt of all localizable material, such as text files and relevant graphic assets, from the developer, while the assigned translators play the game thoroughly.

It’s important to know the in-game context of everything when translating, including all dialogue or text found in out-of-the-way side quests or bonus material. You never know what details shown on the screen but not in the dialogue might affect the tone of a line: a simple conversation between two characters might be intended to develop their characters--but if there's a third character silently spying on them from the shadows, it might take on an entirely different cast.

http://www.atlus.com/res/atlusproductiondiary_12_screen_01.jpg

Step 2: Localization (1-8 weeks)

The time required for this step varies the most from project to project. I’ve worked on games that took a week and a half and I’ve worked on games that took four full months. It depends on the amount of text involved, how many editors and translators are allocated to the project, and how easy the files are to deal with—without going into specifics, the text in some games takes quite a bit of effort on our part to manage. Suffice to say that a game’s text is not always divided up start-to-finish like chapters in a book, and disjointed files can add a lot of time to the localization step. If a game has voiced dialogue, the voice recording process can also add to the amount of time this step takes.

Step 3: Programming (4-6 weeks)

Atlus U.S.A., Inc. has no programmers on staff; implementation of the translated, edited, and finalized text files is generally left up to the original developers. This process, which includes redoing any graphic files which need changing, recompiling any movies with a new voice track, and making any adjustments for North American regional technical standards, rarely lasts less than a month.

Step 4: Quality Assurance (5-8 weeks)

Once the developers have a workable English build, the QA testing process begins. Bugs are a natural side effect of any localization programming, and all Atlus U.S.A., Inc. games are tested thoroughly for both system issues (crashes, graphical and sound glitches, standards deviations) and text issues (typos, logic problems, consistency errors). Even what seems like a very simple game often requires several weeks to be thorough; every last piece of content in the game must be checked and then rechecked to ensure the fixes went through.

http://www.atlus.com/res/atlusproductiondiary_12_screen_02.jpg

Step 5: Manufacturer Approval (3-8 weeks)

Every system manufacturer has an approval process in which their own internal testers go over the submitted master candidate to ensure the game meets their requirements. This generally takes around 3 weeks, provided there aren't any serious issues with the game. If there are, we notify the developer and a truncated version of steps 3-5 happens again.

Step 6: Manufacturing (3-5 weeks)

Just because we have an approved master build doesn’t mean the game can appear on store shelves overnight. That build first goes to replication houses who stamp out copies of the game to meet our order; the amount of time this takes depends on whether it’s a DVD or a cartridge. Once the game has been printed and boxed at the manufacturer, it’s shipped to our distributor, who then fulfills the demand from various retailers such as GameStop, Amazon, and whatever other specialty shops place an order for the title.**

There are other things that have to happen that take time, such as creating a website, or designing the packaging and manuals, or working out what, if any, Atlus Spoils the game will have, but those happen concurrently with one or more of the six above steps.

So as you can see, it’s not as simple as it might seem from a the point of view of someone playing the finished product. Shame, really, because if it was, every day at Atlus U.S.A., Inc. could be ice cream and Nerf wars. But as it is, I’ve got another 100 5,000 lines of text to get through today…

http://www.atlus.com/res/atlusproductiondiary_12_screen_03.jpg

* Speaking personally, If I could put one phrase into the banned word filter on every gaming message board on the Internet, it would be “no reason.” There’s always a reason.

**This, incidentally, is why it’s hard to give a straight answer to people who want to know if their favorite online import retailer or mom-and-pop game store is going to get a given preorder item. Once a game and its attendant bonus paraphernalia are at the distributor, fulfillment to specific accounts is really up to them, and we don’t have much control over or knowledge of the smaller orders these retailers generally place.

[atboob]

I dunno, I think there's something he's still not telling us!

[The Fiz]

You mean its not magic?

I see a weapon used when workers become insolent. Nice choice.

[mjemirzian]

Whatever Atlus' translation process is, it certainly seems to work well. They just haven't stopped cranking out games lately.

[MrPopo]

That's very interesting that you have no programmers on staff. I can see the pros and cons for each. If you send the text to the original devs they are familiar with the code base and can get the insertion and editing done more quickly. But on the flip side there will be slower turnaround between doing a build and testing, as you're going across the ocean and into a different office altogether. Having a programming team in-house will flip those pros and cons.

Also glad to see that I'm not the only office dweller with the Nerf machine gun.

[Electrolyte Junky]

We left out the part about the Warehouse Gnomes that sneak into the office at night, turn on the PCs, and then systematically wreak havoc on the files and draw mustaches on all the character portraits...

Those jerks usually add an additional 4-16 weeks to the schedule... But at the same time, it's worth seeing Chie and Raidou with imposing Civil War 'staches...

[BlindsideDork]

This length is pretty standard except when it comes to Demon's Souls which is perhaps the most IMPORT FRIENDLY game on the market. All text, spoken, word and all that is in English. Also, no bugs.

I guess that levels months to make the instructions english friendly? That and the strat guide?

[etrianfan]

Intresting article.

Well for me, it's not the "long wait" for a game I want to be released, it's the fact that WILL a publisher pick the game up.

I don't really mind waiting months, I whine for THE announcement itself that INSERT GAME PUBLISHER has picked up INSERT GAME and the release date is blah blah...etc

6 months, 8 months, whatever. as long as I know it's coming here.

[Sonicandtails]

Great read. Gives quite a bit of insight I have been curious about for a while.

But what about localizing a game at the same time it's being created? Both teams working together? Sounds like a developer nightmare though...

[Yukichin]

This is really cool to see what goes into translating the games!

I do have to wonder, though, how it's decided what games will get spoils and how those spoils are decided/manufactured/designed...

[Manly Biceps]

Having a programming team in-house will flip those pros and cons.

Unless, like say 100% of all third-party game developers, they don't give you their source code.

I mean, if you hired programmers, and then we never got source code then there'd be NO REASON to have them on staff! :)

[Balrog]

This is fascinating.

[Yukichin]

Having a programming team in-house will flip those pros and cons.

Unless, like say 100% of all third-party game developers, they don't give you their source code.

I mean, if you hired programmers, and then we never got source code then there'd be NO REASON to have them on staff! :)


I'm curious, is there a particular reason for this? It seems fairly odd to me to let a localization company translate your game, but refuse to give them the code for it (when they don't make games) and take more work upon yourselves. (Er, yourselves being the 3rd party developer.)

[reson8er]

6 months, 8 months, whatever. as long as I know it's coming here.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, as long as I know its coming, I don't mind the wait.

Not knowing and possibly spending money for the import are even worse O_o;

[Macstorm]

Quick the translator is playing a DS game. Let's all speculate wildly on what game it is and why it's not out sooner.

[Abandonnez]

Even though that was just one person who said that I'm sure that tons of people think that. I personally don't care if a game takes up to 2 years as long at teh quality is up to par with the original. I don't need to worry about that with you Atlus. You games are always quality. Thank you!

[Rednusander]

All text, spoken, word and all that is in English. Also, no bugs.

No bugs? Really? Oh man, what are those QA guys doing in that picture if there are no bugs!? Don't tell me we've been paying them for NO REASON!

[mumu]

We left out the part about the Warehouse Gnomes that sneak into the office at night, turn on the PCs, and then systematically wreak havoc on the files and draw mustaches on all the character portraits...

Those jerks usually add an additional 4-16 weeks to the schedule... But at the same time, it's worth seeing Chie and Raidou with imposing Civil War 'staches...

what about the uuuuuunicorns that poke holes in the monitors!!!!???

[Onion of Mystery]

Now, don't go jumping to conclusions.
Or maybe you like jumping to conclusions; I don't care.

Really, there's a lot that gets changed when you localize, not just text.
Each time you fiddle with a file, any file, it needs to be recompiled into that build to ensure that nothing's been broken or otherwise affected.
And even then, sometimes you have problems that occur for what seems like NO REASON, like the files physical location on the disc causing problems with the loading sequences and stuff like that.
So you can see that there's more involved than just slapping some text on top of some other text and throwing the game out the door.
Of course, try telling that to the people on websites crying out about how Japan gets all their favorite games before they do.
Nothing's good enough for them, so I try to tune the whiniest of the whiners out.

[Manly Biceps]

I'm curious, is there a particular reason for this? It seems fairly odd to me to let a localization company translate your game, but refuse to give them the code for it (when they don't make games) and take more work upon yourselves. (Er, yourselves being the 3rd party developer.)

One word: Theft.

[aamdani07]

There's always a reason - I agree with that. Even if it's a terrible reason :p

Great post! Personally, I always prefer that a game be delayed to ensure it's quality - just not delayed again and again and again, with price increases or serious alterations of the end product (*cough*StarCraft2*cough*).

Also, I'm glad to see that Atlus goes through a familiarization process, including side quest and bonus content/materials, so that they really delve into the whole context of the dialogue. I own all but 2 SMT games and several other Atlus games - huge fan and supported, and I love all of the localization I've seen so far.

Keep up the great work guys!

[Prem-aka-Prince]

As much as I can understand all that, I really would like to see the English localisation start much earlier. Now, I don't mean to sound purely self-serving, but it goes without saying that there are a lot of people who buy the English language version, so I'd think at least this language could be developed in partnership with the creators from a much earlier stage... personally, I live in the UK, so I think sometimes the game needs to be released with many languages, but at least in the US it would be nice to hear about more simultaneous releases at least for the mainstream games. gee, maybe one day we'll have worldwide releases (since the other languages matter too^^). personally, I'm hoping persona 5 will see much less of a delay, because as you know, both 3 and 4 were huge hits on the same platform. here's hoping P5 will be a PS3 worldwide release^^

[Manly Biceps]

As much as I can understand all that, I really would like to see the English localisation start much earlier.

You spelled "localization" wrong. :D

[Onion of Mystery]

As much as I can understand all that, I really would like to see the English localisation start much earlier.

You spelled "localization" wrong. :D

Nonsense. He said "English localisation," not "North American localization."

[Tears of Ash]

I wonder what the process is for the atlus spoils. Like who decides it's going to be a plushy in a cool box vs an OST packaged in.

I knew that there were more things involved with localization than just translating some text, but I never knew you weren't allowed to have any source code nor that you didn't have any programmers. Seems like it would be such a hassle to fix things whenever your localization caused errors in the game. All that back-and-forth between houses must get tiring.

Doesn't really matter how long a game takes to come out, as long as it's not like...in production for 12 years and then the company shuts down. That's not good.

[nintendomaster2024]

I just HAD to register for the forums after reading this article (I know, I know, heresy, I was too lazy to join a looong time ago). I have a lot more respect for Atlus and what it does, seeing how difficult and multi-layered it's process is for localizing and translating games.

I usually don't mind waiting months or however long it takes you guys, to bring a game over from the US, as long as it comes EVENTUALLY! Like another poster above me stated, it's hearing the ANNOUNCEMENT of a release of a game that I wait to hear, not the release date.

I also wonder, like the above poster said, how you decide what pre-order bonus people get for the game. It seems that for almost every console game, there's an art book, and for some handheld games there are art books, but about the Raiho plushie? What about the P4 Ultra-Cool pack, with the bear plushie, calendar, shirt, art book, AND strategy guide?

[MrPopo]

Having a programming team in-house will flip those pros and cons.

Unless, like say 100% of all third-party game developers, they don't give you their source code.

I mean, if you hired programmers, and then we never got source code then there'd be NO REASON to have them on staff! :)
Ahhh, that makes sense. I didn't realize that all of the third-party devs wouldn't give you the source. As you mentioned, theft is a reason a dev wouldn't give you the source, but I didn't realize that no third-party devs would release it.

The point that Onion of Mystery made about how things as mundane as physical location of a file on a disk can make a difference is spot-on, though. Until you've worked on a large software project you'll have a very hard time really appreciating just how much one mundane change can make to the entire program. A good example of that phenomenom is the Mother 3 fan translation. They had to move around the location of their hacks (without changing the substance) to fix bugs.

[introvert]

Part of the delay also likely has to do with when they begin this process. The writer is talking about this process as if it is a post-production process, meaning it starts after the Japanese game is complete. I recently read an interview on GamaSutra (I think) with studio heads and employees of XSEED and Ignition Entertainment. I believe they spoke with one person from Atlus as well.

Anyway, it sounds as if the general business workflow for localizing a game starts with the American publisher picking up on a game that's already complete and released in the Japanese market. The heads of XSEED in particular were talking about how great it was to be able to invest in a product that's already complete rather than taking the risk and gambling on a product that's still in development, which may or may not turn out to be a great product.

On projects I've worked on (generally AAA, big budget projects), we've often started the localization process when the script is finalized, not when the game is done, and it's an ongoing process throughout production. This allows us to ship localized builds of the game sooner, sometimes even launching in multiple territories on the same date. But we're able to do this because we have larger budgets than most of the titles Atlus releases.

And despite this, I still have more fun playing Atlus games :)

ANYWAY, moving on, the tech we're working with also allows for easy swapping of content based on region. In Unreal Engine 3, for example, you can load all of the content into the same build and just flip a switch in an ini file that will change languages. This is a benefit of using an established commercial platform for games development. There are some really nasty negatives to UE3 though, so don't think it's all sunshine and roses.

In Atlus' case, with multiple developers creating these games, often using their own proprietary tech (particularly for the handhelds), it would be unfeasible for them to do the integration themselves. The ramp up time alone would eliminate any benefit they might gain by having coders on staff. And the different workflows of these different developers likely means that the Atlus staff have to adapt to a new workflow with every project they take on.

Localization is hard, and it's even harder to do it well. Very few loc shops get things done right. I play a lot of games, and I've worked on a fair number of projects in my time as well. Atlus does some of the best localization work I've ever seen. Yeah, it sucks that it sometimes takes a while, but I think I speak for most of us when I say that the end result is always worth the wait. So be patient with them. It won't kill you to wait another month for a title :)

And btw, hi, my name is intro, I'm a game developer and my wife and I are raging Atlus fans.

[Blackwing Dragon]

I almost wrote something stupid here, but then I thought for a nanosecond and went OLOLWTFYAH-snort-
It gets tedious to look at not wall but a whole MONOLITH of text and know you have to battle that...

[Kazaum]

-----------

[matmanx1]

Thanks for this very informative look at the localization process at Atlus. You guys do great work on everything you touch and over the years I've become a big fan.

Oh and thanks for treating your fans so well. The spoils, the dev diaries and the general atmosphere of communication and "fun" you guys project is second to none. Thanks Atlus!

[NullPointer]

You must have some engineers in Atlus USA right?

We have some tech-savvy folk here, but we have 0, that is ZERO game programmers on staff at Atlus USA.

[Manly Biceps]

You must have some engineers in Atlus USA right?

No, but we do have FUN-gineers!

[SimplyMonk]

Very interesting read. Out of curiosity though, is there a rough estimate on the costs of all these steps? I'm a huge fan of the work Atlus does because they tend to publish games, that although they aren't big blockbusters, I really enjoy personally because they satiate some interest of mine.

A good example of that would be "Operation Darkness". All in all I would say this game is "not good", but man... Zombies, Werewolves, Magic and Vampires in WWII? That's like instant money deducted from my bank account which I didn't regret in the least. I even managed to get through the game one and a half times, which really says something.

Based on review scores and retail estimations though, this game didn't do that great, ending up at an estimated $800K in revenue. When I say "didn't do that great" I, of course, are using it in the context of the typical EA or Take-Two title where they are paying from Design to Publish in most cases.

Is $800K a good return for this process? Does it inspire Atlus to keep localizing titles that may only appeal to a very select player base?

EDIT: Let me also say here that when I use the term "not good" I also apply it specifically to controls, gameplay and design. The translations and voice acting I had no problems with whatsoever and my experience was bug-free.

[Kazaum]

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[AtlusAram]

Very interesting read. Out of curiosity though, is there a rough estimate on the costs of all these steps? I'm a huge fan of the work Atlus does because they tend to publish games, that although they aren't big blockbusters, I really enjoy personally because they satiate some interest of mine.

A good example of that would be "Operation Darkness". All in all I would say this game is "not good", but man... Zombies, Werewolves, Magic and Vampires in WWII? That's like instant money deducted from my bank account which I didn't regret in the least. I even managed to get through the game one and a half times, which really says something.

Based on review scores and retail estimations though, this game didn't do that great, ending up at an estimated $800K in revenue. When I say "didn't do that great" I, of course, are using it in the context of the typical EA or Take-Two title where they are paying from Design to Publish in most cases.

Is $800K a good return for this process? Does it inspire Atlus to keep localizing titles that may only appeal to a very select player base?

EDIT: Let me also say here that when I use the term "not good" I also apply it specifically to controls, gameplay and design. The translations and voice acting I had no problems with whatsoever and my experience was bug-free.

We do not discuss numbers. That said, success is relative, and comparing Atlus titles (which are generally niche products) to mass appeal games is really comparing apples and oranges.

Good question, though.

[Blackwing Dragon]

Niche...odd word. I'd prefer to call Atlus something of a Cult company.
Because you guys make (Oc)cult games, and you have a cult following.
brainbleed from pun? No?Damn.

Atlus is the single most respected video game publisher. This still stands now, and still stood before Valve turned the way of EA with L4D2.
I freakin love you guys.

[CoarseDragon]

I always wondered why some changes are made to games during the process. For example in some games encounter rates are reduced or monster stats are reduced. Who makes those choices and why are these changes necessary?

[Fuyukaze]

Very good read. Only step I'd like to see added is the process of selection. How games are picked. Doubt that's posible as it has the potential of revealing more inside information then any company would take comfert in but it's still something I'd enjoy reading about. Still, it was a great read that helped fill in alot of the blanks behind game publishing. Sad truth is best selling or two week bargin bin, every game has to go thru this grueling process.

[Leo]

seriously, I really appreciate the work you all do at ATLUS USA bringing such awesome games for this niche market of gamers.

In my opinion I have no problems waiting for a game to be localized, I have enough Megaten for about 2 years beyond so, take all the time you need!

[EvilHero]

Step 4: Quality Assurance (5-8 weeks)

Once the developers have a workable English build, the QA testing process begins. Bugs are a natural side effect of any localization programming, and all Atlus U.S.A., Inc. games are tested thoroughly for both system issues (crashes, graphical and sound glitches, standards deviations) and text issues (typos, logic problems, consistency errors). Even what seems like a very simple game often requires several weeks to be thorough; every last piece of content in the game must be checked and then rechecked to ensure the fixes went through.



Someone send this to NISA. Because they clearly have left this step out of their process.

[pichonCalavera]

Your localizations are top-notch, so keep up the good work.

[Acre32]

Now, don't go jumping to conclusions.
Or maybe you like jumping to conclusions; I don't care.

Really, there's a lot that gets changed when you localize, not just text.
Each time you fiddle with a file, any file, it needs to be recompiled into that build to ensure that nothing's been broken or otherwise affected.
And even then, sometimes you have problems that occur for what seems like NO REASON, like the files physical location on the disc causing problems with the loading sequences and stuff like that.
So you can see that there's more involved than just slapping some text on top of some other text and throwing the game out the door.
Of course, try telling that to the people on websites crying out about how Japan gets all their favorite games before they do.
Nothing's good enough for them, so I try to tune the whiniest of the whiners out.

:agree:Yeah, as an IT dude, I can vouch for that. Even when things are supposed to work, they don't. Even if you do the same exact steps on every PC you're working on, something goes wrong.

I think a lot of people forget about that detail - that translating games isn't as simple as deleting Japanese Kanji's and replacing them with English words. I'm sure the inevitable tech snafu's are a complete pain in the @$$...

Personally, I typically have such a large backlog of RPGs and other games that I don't particularly notice the difference of 1 month or 6. Odds are that I won't play the game for another 6 months AFTER I buy it! :tongue:

[ryvl_v.00]

"I wanna quote the message but its pretty long so yeah haha!!":agree:

well....I kind of understand how hard it is >_> it was pretty difficult for me to go through one game if there are any multiple routes to go through so its pretty obvious you guys need time like most of us. Well you guys are the company i like on making games cuz you want everything in the game to be perfect without bugs. So if theres a game that I wanted to buy from you guys, I'll wait.

[cj iwakura]

So what happens in instances where there's a game you may want to localize, but something in the source code makes it difficult or impossible? Do you consider contacting Atlus JP for a fix, or simply pass on it? Or does it depend on the title?

[Blackwing Dragon]

Contacting the developer would be the smartest thing to do, they coded it after all.
The only thing I can see is that text strings are screwed up somehow, or hte translation makes them get screwy. A simple game like Tales of Phantasia took ages and many patches to fix due to hilarious errors of all sorts...

[Omatic]

With digital distribution becoming more and more popular, is Atlus going to be getting into using DD for niche games over retail distribution?

I know recently Holy Invasion of Privacy was localized and released only on PSN, which, from my outsider point of view, seems to be a saver of time, money, and risk, while not detracting a whole lot from sales (people who really want the game will buy it, and the problem of limited distribtuion in areas is mitigated). The thing I'm not privy to on this would be the fees and commissions a publisher / localizer would have to pay by using this method.

[Wheatmidge]

With digital distribution becoming more and more popular, is Atlus going to be getting into using DD for niche games over retail distribution?

I know recently Holy Invasion of Privacy was localized and released only on PSN, which, from my outsider point of view, seems to be a saver of time, money, and risk, while not detracting a whole lot from sales (people who really want the game will buy it, and the problem of limited distribtuion in areas is mitigated). The thing I'm not privy to on this would be the fees and commissions a publisher / localizer would have to pay by using this method.

I don't think DD is the right route for Atlus to go. Maybe it's just because I live for random collectibles like art books and figures. I think most Atlus game purchasers are the type that like to have their games on display.


It's really appreciated how accurate to the source material Atlus is in their translations. Though I miss Working Designs a bit in their off the wall translations. But since they went under quite a few years back I guess not enough people liked their sense of humour. Anyways Atlus keep up the good work.

[Prem-aka-Prince]

You spelled "localization" wrong. :DNonsense. He said "English localisation," not "North American localization."lol, sorry, it's just natural for me. but it's true, I won't complain about Americanisation in our games since that would just create additional delays... it's still somewhat legible, after all xD

[Blackwing Dragon]

I dislike digital distribution, it's not like how it should be.
Of course it's still better to have a code to a server-downloadable game for after reformats, new computers etcs than carrying a scratchable, abusable disc with you...but still...

[lewness]

Great read. Maybe if we ask enough times they'll begin to reveal their process for deciding spoils that come with their games.

Also, I wonder how long did it take for them to localize P4?...

[AdrianMorales]

I never heard anyone complaining that a game is taking too long to come out. I have only just heard people being happy that a certain game is coming out at one point or another in their respective country.

PS: localized/localised, honor/honour, color/colour, civilization/civilisation... they are all correct forms:)

[ShadowPhoenix82]

As much as I can understand all that, I really would like to see the English localisation start much earlier.

You spelled "localization" wrong. :D

Nonsense. He said "English localisation," not "North American localization."

Haha, I love it!

And yes, especially if quality assurance is a reason, I've never complained about release time. If you guys need a year, have at it!

[Shindo]

Did Atlus know the worldwide realese exists ? Probably not ^^

Atlus even know that's Europe exists...

[Kyuketsukimiyu]

What a process. It must be a very rewarding thing to do.
I always really appreciate the localization quality of a product. As someone who has done some translating, I know that there are a lot of things to consider when translating any given line. You have to make it sound good in English and not lose the meaning. I always hate it when people who know 10 words of Japanese criticize a translation for not being literal. It's good to see that Atlus goes through many quality checks of their finished product.

[Omatic]

Did Atlus know the worldwide realese exists ? Probably not ^^

Atlus even know that's Europe exists...

There is a reason why Atlus U.S.A. is called "Atlus U.S.A.". Care to guess what it is?

[Blackwing Dragon]

Did Atlus know the worldwide realese exists ? Probably not ^^

Atlus even know that's Europe exists...

There is a reason why Atlus U.S.A. is called "Atlus U.S.A.". Care to guess what it is?

While I agree, it doesn't help that most of THAT continent beleives the world consists of them and the "damn arabs".
Really, a ton of people ask where I live, I tell them in Europe, they go "Where's that?"

[Rednusander]

^There's really no reason to bring those kind of biases into this thread, as they will only serve to derail it.

This thread really has nothing to do with Atlus USA and its relationship with Europe, so let's move back to the topic at hand, please.

[jackal27]

Well, I've never thought that your games take too long to get put out, especially with how great the translation usually is. However, this certainly gave me a better idea of just why it takes so long to get a game localized. Great article! Keep up the good work. You guys rock.

P.S. That NERF gun is beyond epic...

[Blackwing Dragon]

Sorry bout that.
Before Valve went corrupt and EA'd us with L4D2, it was a respected company that took AGES (\Valve Time \) to release games, but they were polished, smooth games that were fun to play.

Corporate moneygrubbing or not, the past is there, I respect them for that. Likewise, I beleive the time it takes Atlus to pump out a product they are proud of is well worth it. Their best efforts go into most of what they do, so even if you had the right to complain....you have nothing to complain about.
Atlus does a good job.

[sotanaht1]

It was mentioned, but Demon's Souls really is as import-friendly as it could possibly be.

While there are a couple of bugs, there are none associated with localization, only ones we are waiting on the original devs to fix (neutral tendancy glitch, biorr-dragon glitch, etc). QA should be practically non-existent here, just check what you change. From will be doing any actual changes anyway, so that is not a problem at all.

Almost all of the text and spoken dialogue is already completely translated, so familiarization should take a couple of days, not weeks. All Atlus needs to fix are a grammatical errors, in non-spoken text, and the manual. Localization itself should take almost no time for the same reason, its already been done, just fix it and go.

Programming may take the full length, you're outsourcing after all, but there should not be anything BUT text. All dialogue is finished and not worth modifying at all, all the voice is finished, and if someone changes non-text graphics I will personally hunt them down. The other thing that's being changed at this step is the one that makes me more angry then everything else combined and multiplied by a factor of ten. You plan to change the server affinity, so the versions cannot inter-operate.

Manufacturer approval is a mostly pointless timesink, they already approved it once, or perhaps 3 times, but I would have to yell at Sony for that, not Atlus.

All in all, the process should come to 2-3 months (one each for the Devs and Sony to do their thing, average, and the 2-4 weeks remaining for Atlus to do its negligible part). But there is another thing to consider. There was already an announced American release, back in February, within weeks of the games overseas release, it was scheduled to be released in America. That was scrapped, obviously, and almost certainly for reasons related to sales, not localization. There is no reason this game should not have been done THEN.

EDIT: I forgot to include manufacturing. There isn't much I can say about this step, given that one single little thing is changed, it will be the same deal, same amount of time. Then there is the (in my opinion, worthless*) swag that Atlus includes, which also takes time to get into production. That, however, can be ready before the game's production line is.

*In a game, I only find content that can be visible at some point to other players or that can change the way I play to be worthwhile, figurines and art books are just things that end up lost around my house, I don't like soundtracks and I get my game guide needs filled online.

Edit2: I should also like to mention that while the entire process might even take most of the scheduled time, even based on the figures here the majority of atlus employees only work for at most 3 months on a project like this, the largest figures are done outside the company or by factory-style workers. For demon's souls, that time should be less then half.

[Rednusander]

^ You've made some fairly large assumptions in your post about how our internal processes work and the time frames involved on this particular game.

Unfortunatley, all I can tell you is that most of them are incorrect.

[mumu]

It was mentioned, but Demon's Souls really is as import-friendly as it could possibly be.

While there are a couple of bugs, there are none associated with localization, only ones we are waiting on the original devs to fix (neutral tendancy glitch, biorr-dragon glitch, etc). QA should be practically non-existent here, just check what you change. From will be doing any actual changes anyway, so that is not a problem at all.

Almost all of the text and spoken dialogue is already completely translated, so familiarization should take a couple of days, not weeks. All Atlus needs to fix are a grammatical errors, in non-spoken text, and the manual. Localization itself should take almost no time for the same reason, its already been done, just fix it and go.

Programming may take the full length, you're outsourcing after all, but there should not be anything BUT text. All dialogue is finished and not worth modifying at all, all the voice is finished, and if someone changes non-text graphics I will personally hunt them down. The other thing that's being changed at this step is the one that makes me more angry then everything else combined and multiplied by a factor of ten. You plan to change the server affinity, so the versions cannot inter-operate.

Manufacturer approval is a mostly pointless timesink, they already approved it once, or perhaps 3 times, but I would have to yell at Sony for that, not Atlus.

All in all, the process should come to 2-3 months (one each for the Devs and Sony to do their thing, average, and the 2-4 weeks remaining for Atlus to do its negligible part). But there is another thing to consider. There was already an announced American release, back in February, within weeks of the games overseas release, it was scheduled to be released in America. That was scrapped, obviously, and almost certainly for reasons related to sales, not localization. There is no reason this game should not have been done THEN.

EDIT: I forgot to include manufacturing. There isn't much I can say about this step, given that one single little thing is changed, it will be the same deal, same amount of time. Then there is the (in my opinion, worthless*) swag that Atlus includes, which also takes time to get into production. That, however, can be ready before the game's production line is.

*In a game, I only find content that can be visible at some point to other players or that can change the way I play to be worthwhile, figurines and art books are just things that end up lost around my house, I don't like soundtracks and I get my game guide needs filled online.

Edit2: I should also like to mention that while the entire process might even take most of the scheduled time, even based on the figures here the majority of atlus employees only work for at most 3 months on a project like this, the largest figures are done outside the company or by factory-style workers. For demon's souls, that time should be less then half.

HAAAHHAA

[SimplyMonk]

We do not discuss numbers. That said, success is relative, and comparing Atlus titles (which are generally niche products) to mass appeal games is really comparing apples and oranges.

Good question, though.

Understandable. I hope it is though, since whenever I see a DS or Xbox 360 title that really catches my interest, there is a good chance it turns out to be published by Atlus. Keep doing what you guys are doing.

[Apuleius]

Suffice to say that a game’s text is not always divided up start-to-finish like chapters in a book, and disjointed files can add a lot of time to the localization step.

Another poster that registered after reading The Process, but I wanted to emphasize the quote above. I’ve been involved in localizing over 30 titles – mostly Windows PC, but some handheld and web-based stuff (MMOs) – and I cannot stress enough just how long disorganized text adds to a project. A recent project involved 15 Excel files with 5-7 tabs in each file, quest text spread throughout. It can be extremely difficult keeping track of who is going where or doing what when it’s started in tab 3 file 1 and finished in tab 7 file 9.

I also want to point out the importance of the rigorous playthroughs that Atlus has their employees go through. It is very rare for us to be provided with anything for a game – forget a beta, I’m talking about basic character bios or rough outlines for the plot. I think it would surprise people just how lackadaisical most companies are about the localization process – they want complete polish with minimal effort. I don’t blame companies wanting their money’s worth, but it’s hard to peg down the context when the material is two weeks late and you have absolutely no idea what the story is even about.

Gamasutra recently ran an article that discusses writing for games, and just how difficult it can be. Writers often face similar problems as translators and editors, with assets constantly changing and no clear direction. It can get pretty messy, which is why having companies like Atlus and NIS is so nice, with us getting all of the fun and none of the headaches.


Aside: Demon’s Souls pre-orderededed.

[Pixel]

Nice thread. At what stage in the localization process would a project be ready for public announcement?

[Rednusander]

Nice thread. At what stage in the localization process would a project be ready for public announcement?

That varies from project to project as our marketing team is in charge of deciding what would be the most strategic time to announce a title. It can before localization has even begun, all the way to after the title is ready to ship.

[Crow T. Robot]

It was mentioned, but Demon's Souls really is as import-friendly as it could possibly be.

While there are a couple of bugs, there are none associated with localization, only ones we are waiting on the original devs to fix (neutral tendancy glitch, biorr-dragon glitch, etc). QA should be practically non-existent here, just check what you change. From will be doing any actual changes anyway, so that is not a problem at all.

Almost all of the text and spoken dialogue is already completely translated, so familiarization should take a couple of days, not weeks. All Atlus needs to fix are a grammatical errors, in non-spoken text, and the manual. Localization itself should take almost no time for the same reason, its already been done, just fix it and go.

Programming may take the full length, you're outsourcing after all, but there should not be anything BUT text. All dialogue is finished and not worth modifying at all, all the voice is finished, and if someone changes non-text graphics I will personally hunt them down. The other thing that's being changed at this step is the one that makes me more angry then everything else combined and multiplied by a factor of ten. You plan to change the server affinity, so the versions cannot inter-operate.

Manufacturer approval is a mostly pointless timesink, they already approved it once, or perhaps 3 times, but I would have to yell at Sony for that, not Atlus.

All in all, the process should come to 2-3 months (one each for the Devs and Sony to do their thing, average, and the 2-4 weeks remaining for Atlus to do its negligible part). But there is another thing to consider. There was already an announced American release, back in February, within weeks of the games overseas release, it was scheduled to be released in America. That was scrapped, obviously, and almost certainly for reasons related to sales, not localization. There is no reason this game should not have been done THEN.

EDIT: I forgot to include manufacturing. There isn't much I can say about this step, given that one single little thing is changed, it will be the same deal, same amount of time. Then there is the (in my opinion, worthless*) swag that Atlus includes, which also takes time to get into production. That, however, can be ready before the game's production line is.

*In a game, I only find content that can be visible at some point to other players or that can change the way I play to be worthwhile, figurines and art books are just things that end up lost around my house, I don't like soundtracks and I get my game guide needs filled online.

Edit2: I should also like to mention that while the entire process might even take most of the scheduled time, even based on the figures here the majority of atlus employees only work for at most 3 months on a project like this, the largest figures are done outside the company or by factory-style workers. For demon's souls, that time should be less then half.
I had no idea you worked for ATLUS.....

|:

[PainKilleR-[CE]]

I'd just like to add something that seems to be overlooked by a lot of people (or unknown in some cases):

Depending on the programming language in which the game is written, and how the system itself handles certain things, adding a single letter to a line of text can cause a memory overflow, which results in the game crashing (at best), or weird errors somewhere down the line that seem unrelated. Replacing Japanese text with English text? Well, then you've also got encoding issues to deal with and so forth, all of which is why it's preferable to have the original developers work on inserting the English text into the game rather than having 3rd party developers hack it back in. Plus the text has to be looked at in-game to make sure there aren't formatting issues with the new text and so forth.

This is why even Demon's Souls, which is already in English, still requires all of the same steps with mostly the same amount of time allotted to them. You can't just 'fix' the English text that's in the game and plug it back in without testing it.

[Castle Pokemetroid]

Whatever Atlus is doing, it seems to be going quite well.

Some projects like this can become quite tedious, but the staff are still faithful to the fans, as the fans are faithful to Altus.

[hilaryaustin]

Almost all of the text and spoken dialogue is already completely translated, so familiarization should take a couple of days, not weeks. All Atlus needs to fix are a grammatical errors, in non-spoken text, and the manual. Localization itself should take almost no time for the same reason, its already been done, just fix it and go.

at least there are some visible progress even if its slow it's still gaining changes that all will benefit from it.