Impressions...

[Spraynard]

Welp, I barely managed to track down a copy in town today.. last of its kind, and secured it for myself to begin playing this evening.

I grew up on Wizardry's of old and Ultimas and Might and Magics, so I'm pretty well versed in the Dungeon Crawler(tm) but I hadn't really thrown one at myself in a long time.. probably since Eye of the Beholder 2. (/fossil)

My PSP goes unused a lot and after running across this game while looking at the Knights in the Nightmare (awesome) forums, I decided to jump back into the world of the dungeon and perma-death.

So far, I haven't gotten very far in, maybe a couple hours with the default party before I buckle down and make my own, but I'm really pleased with what has presented itself so far;

-the music is fairly subdued, and doesn't offend your ear after repetitious playing. I'm not sure how many songs in total there are but the ones i've heard are pretty decent. Sound effects are minimal but ok, and there are nice ambient dungeon sounds.

-the graphics are just what they seem from screenshots..serviceable, with cute and/or cool touches here and there. They are mostly static but you will see the occasional effect or whoosh of a weapon. Honestly this type of game isn't really about flashiness, but the graphics presented are clean, and do the job of displaying the proper information and keeping you engaged. We've come a long way from white-line mazes. ;)

-Inner workings.. This game is at once simple and nostalgic, taking you to (or back to) the dungeons of yore, with their devious traps, spinners, pits, trapped chests, maps, cursed items, and constant fear of danger and exploration - yet adding the new elements of a complex alchemy system, race interaction, and alignment among other neet-o touches, that were not present (or likely possible) in the old days of early Wizardry.

The manual is good, and explains what you need to know to get started, and beyond. Not a skinny manual either.. just right.

I like what i'm seeing so far and i'm enthused that such a genre still sees loving treatment from modern day developers, and indeed that people other than me still harbor love for the game type.. especially if they never grew up with it and somehow relish that type of punishment (mua ha ha).

Anyways, thats my impressions so far. I'm happy with it and I will post further impressions when I get deeper into the game after I make my own characters.

Thanks for reading!

[Gen Eric Gui]

I dunno man, from what I've played so far this game is even more back-asswards and user-unfriendly than even The Dark Spire. No offensive spells, the average player accuracy is under 40%, map design/alchemy system that rewards random chance and luck over any kind of planning or strategy...I'm really not seeing anything great about this game so far except for the aesthetics.

Of course, I'm probably doing something horribly wrong.

[Spraynard]

I haven't played Dark Spire, so I can't comment on that one. I'm not sure what you mean by no offensive spells.. I have several that seem to do about what I would expect them to at my current level.. I think a fire spell and a fear spell are about all I started with.

I seem to hit about what I would expect as far as accuracy. I'm just using the default party though which starts at level 2. Have you gotten any gambits yet?

One thing about this type of game regarding the map is that it is indeed a lot of luck.. you can be right in front of a trap square and if your Rogue doesn't detect the trap, you can step into a world of hurt. It's pretty merciless, but it's this heightened sense of danger and permanence that are attracting IMO.

[RayFoxSith]

It's pretty hard. I'm gonna experiment with other majors for a while. This is definitely not a game to rush into.

[EdHavoc]

Gen Eric Gui: You're still on the first phase of this game, which I call: I can't get anything to work phase.

Now, give it some time and you'll see that things WILL start making some sense.

My own advice is to use the following starting party in order to get to know the game. I strongly advice you to make another party after you've managed to get some decent items and/or gold to gear them up. (I kept them up to level 5).

FRONT:
Evil Dwarf Warrior -- efficient, good hp, levels quickly.
Evil Elven Alchemist -- you'll need alchemy to make your first decent weapons, decent enough tank.
Evil Halfling Thief -- You NEED a thief, trust me. (later on a ninja works just as well)
BACK
Evil Drake Devout -- Nice healing, great HP, BREATH <-- only way to hit from the back when you start the game
Evil Diablos Psycher -- BREATH, magic skill that lets you flee from battle.
Evil Drake Wizard -- BREATH, Sight(lvl 1) & Levitas(lvl 2) you'll need those to move around the place.

Try this formation out and you'll see that the game isn't as impossible as it first seems.

EDIT: I almost forgot, don't even bother starting the game with chars with less than 20 bonus points. Try to max vit on your front liners and give at least 12 to your back liners.

EDIT 2: Keep a 2nd party with a cleric on it, you'll need it to appraise all the junk you get from dungeons.

[Steel Greyfalke]

it's definitly is not a rush through Im still trying things out & now My human is ASH! (DUNDUNDUN!)

[Gen Eric Gui]

My party is starting to work now that I've gained a few levels and my accuracy modifier actually does something. I still need to find a friggen weapon for my Samurai and Devout though. I can't get a broken sling or blunt sword to drop.

I went with:

Good Male Human Samurai
Neutral Female Celestian Valkyrie
Good Male Felpurian Alchemist
Neutral Male Halfling Thief
Good Male Erdgeist Wizard
Neutral Female Dwarf Devout

And I have a Female Erdgeist Cleric sitting in the dorms to appraise things until my Alchemist can do it(Which will be a while, because wtf my Alchemist needs like twice as much EXP as everyone else)

My biggest problem was that my starting party had no offensive spells (My Wizard has Sleepum, Sight, and Slow. Slow doesn't do crap against groups, Sleepum never hits, and Sight is worthless in the first dungeon since you HAVE a map already.) and I had no money to afford a Slingshot or Boomerang so my backrow characters couldn't do anything but stand there like doofuses, and my front row fighters had daggers and not much else. Once you get rolling it's not so bad, but holy jesus is that a rough start.

[EdHavoc]

That's why both devils & drakes are so helpful when starting the game since you can spam Breath from the backlines at will.

Now, for the drops, change the game mode to masochist, it wont autosave, but the drops increase quite a bit.

[Gen Eric Gui]

When is the game auto-saving?

[Ziggarius]

When is the game auto-saving?

It autosaves constantly. Like maybe every single step that you take. The only way to take advantage of an auto-save is a "soft-reset". Which is L + R + Start + Select at the same time then select the option of "Resume" instead of "Continue".


I totally agree with the poster that suggested the Masochist save mode. I seriously get something like 3-5x as many drops than I did before I found out what Masochist mode does.

[RayFoxSith]

One thing I might want to suggest to people is to keep rolling stats. The highest amount of bonus points I've gotten was 20. Just keep entering and leaving the edit screen.

[Gen Eric Gui]

You can get up to 40, last I heard. The only problem with that is that the more points you start with, the more EXP it takes to level up. My characters who got around 10 points level up almost twice as fast as my characters that got 19-20, and I know it's not their job class doing that to them.

[EdHavoc]

Now that's wierd since the xp needed to go from one level to another is class related and fixed. I'll put up a link if I find again the place where I saw it.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Well, unless the Alchemist really does need over 3x the amount of EXP to go up levels as the Devout, then I'm pretty sure that amount of BP affects things.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Leveling XP seems to be a tier based on job.

It's pretty solid, if lacking a couple of features that would make the grinding aspect a little lighter. (Which, when even the basic jobs require thousands of XP in the single digit levels... Grinding's an unavoidable aspect.)
-Autobattle is rather sorely needed. Once you can best everything but the rare party-wiper encounters [Like... Judgement in the Novice Dungeon] you start to notice the 1-2~ seconds the game denies input as it animates up the menu for your combat choices for each character.

Thankfully, holding X simulates it somewhat, AND speeds up the battle, but it's not quite the same.

-Moving Items between inventories is a little counter intuitive, even a few dozen hours in I still think L&R will change the inventory I have active, instead of the desination.

-Alchemy products remain in the ingredients until you manually take'em out. Though this cuts down on button presses to redo synths, I've not yet gotten a non-first time +# result. [First build from Junk & Mat, yeah a fair number, but none yet from Desynth/Resynth/Repeat, though hardly proof that DRR doesn't work at all for free +#'s.]


Other than that, and the encounters generally being either Destroyer or Destroyee... (IE Absolutely demolishing everything that stands before me in the second dungeon, but Thieving Arts III's boss destroys me.)

I believe there're only Four spells per spell level, so any class that has that will be able to hold them all. It amuses me that you keep your "Spells/day" number when changing majors though.

[NullPointer]

-Autobattle is rather sorely needed.

Try holding down on the analog stick and pressing X when inputing your commands.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Devout is SO BROKEN. MP Walk is the most broken skill ever when you have a casts/day MP system. I'm only level 9 and it's literally impossible for me to run out of heal spells, to the point that I've explored two entire dungeons without having to rest in between. At the very least all of my caster classes are going to cycle back into Devouts by endgame.


Also, I'm only in the 4th dungeon and I'm already hitting recycled floor plans. Really?

[Spraynard]

Ok, maybe everyone has already noticed this, but I just now noticed that the clock on the title screen displays the actual time. Pretty neet :)

[Ziggarius]

Also, I'm only in the 4th dungeon and I'm already hitting recycled floor plans. Really?

Gen, it's not "recycled" floor plans. The floor plan is random every time that you go in. Sometimes it will be a floor you have been on, other times it will be a new one. The game does not randomly generate floor plans, instead it randomly selects one of the vailable floor plans.

If you go to the Library then Year Book you can see how many different maps there. (78 of them in total) Would it have been better for a full random? Perhaps, but if you're getting the same maps now that you're on the 4th dungeon, I just have to say it's all luck based as I haven't had the same one yet, and I've been down into the first labyrinth (The Hands-On Lesson quest). So, not sure if that's what you mean by fourth dungeon, or whatever else.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

The dungeons seem to have a pool they pull from, rather than any of the 1-78. Since the inner sanctum of each dungeon is the first dozen or so maps.

And I myself have always gotten the same 3 outer maps for novice, and 4 outer maps for Holdeah.


-Autobattle is rather sorely needed. Try holding down on the analog stick and pressing X when inputing your commands. Hmm, very nice indeed. Would not have found that out, even though I see it in the manual now. :oops: Thank you.

While we've got your attention though, someone on GFAQs camme up with an interesting question: What would happen if you had a Ranged weapon with say Fire enchantment, and ammo with water?

Also kinda curious if there're any differences between the Academy, University, and Institution gear sets? [My assumption at this point, is that the other two gear sets come with students from the other schools, when we get the ability to recruit them.]

They all have identical stats at base/+0, so do they, or any gear, gain any other stats as they gain enhancement levels?

Or are there separate 'enchantment' recipies for Acc/Eva/Core Stat bonii like there are for the Banes?

Also Curious if the Bane effects on armor affect damage taken, and thus if Red 'bane' effects are a very bad thing to have on armor.

[Edit 2 for clarity and Bane effect question.]
[Edit 3: Just did a DRR +1. So, yeah completely viable, not surprising.]

[Gen Eric Gui]

Also, I'm only in the 4th dungeon and I'm already hitting recycled floor plans. Really?

Gen, it's not "recycled" floor plans. The floor plan is random every time that you go in. Sometimes it will be a floor you have been on, other times it will be a new one. The game does not randomly generate floor plans, instead it randomly selects one of the vailable floor plans.

If you go to the Library then Year Book you can see how many different maps there. (78 of them in total) Would it have been better for a full random? Perhaps, but if you're getting the same maps now that you're on the 4th dungeon, I just have to say it's all luck based as I haven't had the same one yet, and I've been down into the first labyrinth (The Hands-On Lesson quest). So, not sure if that's what you mean by fourth dungeon, or whatever else.

You misunderstand. I'm fully aware of how the dungeon system works. But, literally, the third dungeon shares it's 4 possible upper floorplans with the the Novice's Path and Holdea Cave dungeons. The 4th dungeon where you go to your first labyrinth also has the same upper floors as Holdea. That's what I meant by recycled maps. I've been through 4 dungeons so far, which should mean I'd have seen around 20 different floorplans so far, but I've only seen about 9.

[Ziggarius]

You misunderstand. I'm fully aware of how the dungeon system works. But, literally, the third dungeon shares it's 4 possible upper floorplans with the the Novice's Path and Holdea Cave dungeons. The 4th dungeon where you go to your first labyrinth also has the same upper floors as Holdea. That's what I meant by recycled maps. I've been through 4 dungeons so far, which should mean I'd have seen around 20 different floorplans so far, but I've only seen about 9.

No, I fully understood. What *I* am telling you is that it is all luck, and that I am at the same point as you with 15 different floor plans seen. I actually checked via the year book.

[EdHavoc]

Oh joy & happiness, I can't create new threads in here, so I'll just hijack this one.

Has anyone tried out the evoker? I'm wondering if it is worh the trouble.

If so, which class did you left out? Wizard? Psycher? Cleric?

I'm currently using:
FRONT
Drake Paladin 7 (multiclassed from devout after getting group heal spell)
Felpar Ninja 6 (multiclassed from cleric 7)
Celestian Devote 5
BACK
Elf Psycher 8
Diablos Wizard 8
Erdgeist Cleric 8

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Oh joy & happiness, I can't create new threads in here, so I'll just hijack this one. You need to make around 5 posts before it gives you full poster privileges. Has anyone tried out the evoker? I'm wondering if it is worh the trouble.

If so, which class did you left out? Wizard? Psycher? Cleric? I started with one, but until you get to an evoker ring in an Inner Sanctum they have absolutely no magic to their name. Combined with a lack or ranged weapons I dropped her in favor of a wizard, and then ultimately an Alchemist.

[EdHavoc]

I noticed that as well, which is why I started with a wizard myself (diablos) using breath to compensate for the lack of weapons.

Since no other class has any summon slots, I was wondering about the value of taking some levels as evoker or not.

So far, I'm planning on turning my wizard into an alchemist at level 10, and once the alchemist turns to level 10 (should be when everybody else is at level 20 or so), I'll change my cleric into something else as well.

[Gen Eric Gui]

and once the alchemist turns to level 10 (should be when everybody else is at level 20 or so


Try again. The Alchemist needs about a kazillion more EXP to go up levels then any other class.

[PFV]

Evokers would probably be best late-game, when you've had a chance to get a single character through all the other casting majors.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

and once the alchemist turns to level 10 (should be when everybody else is at level 20 or so Try again. The Alchemist needs about a kazillion more EXP to go up levels then any other class. They take double the XP of Warriors, but Warriors are the only major on their XP curve, most of the classes are around 1.5.

But the XP curve in general means at Warrior level 13, my Alchemist is only level 10. Not that huge of a gap.

[Xriya]

Well there is an evoker ring in the First dungeon.. The Coins you summon dont have a whole heck of a lot of Hit Points.. They do get psychic spells tho which is nice..
X

[Ulong]

I can't find Sarah's lost love letter.
I Just got the quest to go visit another school to borrow a key, but as this is obviously the quest following the main plot line, I wanted to wrap up the other bulletins, so I don't fall behind on quests. I've been checking the center of all the currently available Dungeons though, and I can't find her letter on the ground anywhere. Which dungeon is it in?




I'm really liking this game, but it feels a bit easier then etrian oddysey. I made a party of:

F:
Drake Valkyrie
Diablos Kunoici
Human Alchemist

B:
Human Ranger
Diablos Evoker
Celestian Cleric

Hardly an optimal party, in terms of Class or Affinity, but I'm still going through the game fine, only died once. (first try of Theivery Arts III boss fight)
As a side note, why is it that the boss for Theivery Arts III is in the noob dungeon even though the quest says he's in the second dungeon, and he only appears there after you try searching the second dungeon?

Edit: also, I must have missed a dialogue somewhere, what does donating to the infirmary do?

[PFV]

I can't find Sarah's lost love letter.
It's just a random drop, used in crafting. Literally "Love Letter." If you hoard items, you may even have a couple in your locker.

[Gen Eric Gui]

You can get a free one by buying a Heart Charm in the shop and breaking it down. But understand that she's going to end up needing more than one of them.

As for donating to the infirmary, it gives you bonus EXP. 1 gold = 1 EXP.

[Ulong]

It's just a random drop, used in crafting. Literally "Love Letter." If you hoard items, you may even have a couple in your locker.
You can get a free one by buying a Heart Charm in the shop and breaking it down. But understand that she's going to end up needing more than one of them.

Cool. Thanks guys. I'll go check if I"ve got any sitting in my lockers, I hoard everything practically, so.

As for donating to the infirmary, it gives you bonus EXP. 1 gold = 1 EXP.
thanks.




Still curious about what's up with the boss's spawn for thievery arts 3 and having to search the wrong place first before he'll spawn, but I'm thinking maybe only someone from aquire could shed some light on that one. Unless there was a solution that I missed when I just stumbled upon him by accident.

Thanks again for answering my questions. I would have totally just kept scanning the inner sanctums for ages and ages.

[Gen Eric Gui]

-Autobattle is rather sorely needed.

Try holding down on the analog stick and pressing X when inputing your commands.

Speaking of this, sometimes when I use the Auto-battle function, every other character in my party doesn't attack, even when there are viable targets for them to hit. Anyone know why this happens?

[Foryth]

Well, I started on masochist and the game has been rather easy so far. The only trouble I've had is how long it can take to get a specific drop. Either I've rolled too high for my characters or I've been really lucky.

My current party :

Front Row :
Eko - Good Drake Paladin
Odur - Neutral Dwarf Warrior
Hertz - Neutral Sprite Thief

Back Row :
Fatina - Good Felpier Psychicer
Freya - Neutral Erdgeist Wizard
Loki - Good Celestian Cleric

[DarkAesthir]

-Autobattle is rather sorely needed.

Try holding down on the analog stick and pressing X when inputing your commands.

Speaking of this, sometimes when I use the Auto-battle function, every other character in my party doesn't attack, even when there are viable targets for them to hit. Anyone know why this happens?

I've noticed this as well. Always affects character slots 2,4,6 simultaneously, regardless of any other factors.
Doesn't occur all the time, but enough to be annoying (>20%).
I could be grinding 10% faster...!

But it still is faster than manually attacking to get all 6 attacks, like I was doing before learning about auto attack.
I will never gloss over the controls page again, but something that important should be located somewhere more noticeable. Possibly multiple times.

[PFV]

Speaking of this, sometimes when I use the Auto-battle function, every other character in my party doesn't attack, even when there are viable targets for them to hit. Anyone know why this happens?
It may be just pure chance, but once I started making it a point to hold down on the analog stick before pressing X (as opposed to simultaneously or X slightly before analog), I haven't seen this happen.

[ReaperX30]

Ok didn't know where to post this so here goes. I'm doing the fighting Arts class 2 or 3....anyway I have to meet the teacher at X19, Y19 on the Novice Road. I get there and she's nowhere to be found.

Now I noticed the crossed swords in the dungeon that are encounters. I've done two so far, are those related to this quest. I'm on a map that you have to pass between columns with fire on top cause if you go to the sides it pushes you from where you came. There's also a big dark spot near the middle of the map that I haven't explored yet. Anyone can help me with this?

[Foryth]

You have to be on the map that says "Center" when you look at the map, that's what they refer to as the Inner Sanctum. When you get to X19, Y19 of that map, there should be a question mark or a green silhouette.

[Gen Eric Gui]

The crossed swords icons mean that there's a chest on that spot. They're generally in fixed locations on a given map layout.

[ReaperX30]

Cool, thanks guys I'll go check it out.

[Nic~kun]

I was actually confused by this game. I had thought we'd gotten out of the whole...'Atari dungeon crawler' in the 2000's when consoles were like Jesus coming down in a flaming chariot made of chocolate and whipped cream. Surprising and unexpected is what I'm getting at.

Instead, the makers of...'this' decided to jump back and say, 'Well! Everything in the game world is progressing nicely so...let's go ahead and *bleep* this up like never before.' and somewhere along the lines someone asked 'How?' and thus...this unfriendly, boring, plain game was born.

Don't get me wrong, it's okay if you're into the whole, 'You're weak and you'll probably stay that way.' or 'It's you...fighting in a 3D world against 2D monsters! Come on, it's like a Gameboy...when they were still popular...and didn't run on disks.'

In my opinion, it would've been cool or at least interesting to be able to interact with your party mates instead of just going out there without saying so much as two words to each other. Romance dang it! Or at least a 'How are you?' option. Unfortunately, no, we were shut out of the possibility of increasing characters 'get along' factor.

Sorry, I'm rambling. If you're interested in taking a step back into the old Atari world, go for it. If you're a FPS player and/or seek an intense game. Might wanna go check out the other games from Atlus.

[Ephidel]

There is a "party members talk to each other" option... its called using your imagination ;)
That way they can talk about whatever you want, instead of how they are and the weather. If they want, they can talk about drilling holes in the floor, cheating on tomorrows test, romance of whatever type you choose in the basement level, or how to kill that annoying Erdgeist tagging along behind them before she has time to beg for a heal. Or how they are and the weather.