Atlus i'm dismayed to be perfectly honest

[mordaki987]

:frown: I'm dismayed to be perfectly honest at the moment with atlus and their whole white rider or pale white rider/ red rider encounters. I don't find this amusing in the slightest what you have done with these 2 encounters nor do i approve of how you have them set up as inescapable during combat as well as the whole having to sacrifice up demons just to avoid combat. it's assinine to think that with all the other shin megami tensei games i have played on the ps2 console that this is the one where i'm about ready to say why did i even bother spending 20 bucks for it when all they did was tick me off due to 2 encounters that are absolutely inescapable or even doable for combat at the level you encounter them! at any rate my rant my two cents have been spoken! If anyone from atlus staff or anyone would like to add in their 2 cents about the whole thing feel free to, but at this point unless they make changes in a special edition release like what they did with persona 3 fes i may just drop playing this all together due to 2 specific mob enocounters which are pale rider and red rider!

[Hitoshura]

Good job yelling at the localizers, and not the developers.

[cj iwakura]

I love the Fiend battles. They're practically a selling point. I'm glad DS4 has opponents that make you fight for your life.

[unknown]

Speaking of being dismayed, do you still have to have a demon's loyalty maxed out before fusing them?

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

[Pibbman]

Speaking of being dismayed, do you still have to have a demon's loyalty maxed out before fusing them?

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

Yeah, you can fuse them now without having to max them out. That was a pleasant surprise when I found that out.

As for the topic, it's rather rare I come across them. It also depends on what demon you have following you too. There is a passive skill you get called "Unreachable Soul", which decreases Fiend encounters, but as far as I know it's a rather high level skill which by then is a bit useless as you can really start doing damage by then.

I'm fine with Red Rider, White Rider, that kageourumo or whatever guy, etc. I just don't like it when it's Pale Rider, since the dick starts summoning up to 2 others, and has no known weaknesses as far as I know.

[mordaki987]

I admit you don't really see this kind of thing but as in star trek(and yes i know star trek has nothing to do with shin megami tensei or even this game in particular) i don't believe in a no win scenario and thats exactly what these low level encounters with as i believe my guess is correct is the equivalent to death are fair! the simple fact being they are inesapable during combat even by items that allow an instant esape, and b) the whole negotiation oh by the way sacrifice your demons just so that that the main character can live crap doesn't seem to me very fair either. yes i know yall probably think i'm whining well i'm not i'm simply stating my feelings on the whole matter. nothing wrong with that at least i don't think there is anything wrong with that. I mean community forums are after all an alternate way for a players voice to be heard by the compan who developed/released the game.

[Inzaghi]

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

That's exactly how it works in this game. You can a demon at any time, but if you don't max out their loyalty, it won't learn its innate passive skill to pass down to the next demon.

[Foobar]

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

That's exactly how it works in this game. You can a demon at any time, but if you don't max out their loyalty, it won't learn its innate passive skill to pass down to the next demon.

From what I've observed, it doesn't affect what passive skills the next demon learns so much as how many it can acquire from the last ones. There's a set limit per demon, but if you want to apply the maximum amount of skills to a new tier of demon, you need to max out the loyalty of the previous incarnations of other demons you fuse.

Basically, Loyalty is the key to demons learning traits at all.

Its possible to fuse a demon that has six slots, but only be able to fill three of them because you didn't max out the loyalty of other demons previously fused.

I also have to say, making these passive traits selectable is one of the best changes to fusion. I'm fine with skills themselves being randomized from the parent demons, but I always got a little frustrated with not getting the passive traits I wanted. Taking those out of the randomization makes fusion a lot more fun and customizable to the experience.

[unknown]

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

That's exactly how it works in this game. You can a demon at any time, but if you don't max out their loyalty, it won't learn its innate passive skill to pass down to the next demon.

That's good to hear.

[mordaki987]

:frown: i give up here. i'm tired of having to sacrifice demosn just to be able to escape from these pains in the royal <3 letter expletive> be it level 20 40 or whatever i'm sorry but 300 to 400 damage a pop isn't acceptable to me. what i thought was going to be a fun game blows big <4 letter expletive> i'm sorry but thats how i feel right now with this game. persona 4 and persona 3 fes i can deal with and handle but this game forget it!

[GrimmAngel]

I just recently ran into the white rider (or was it pale? can't remember now) and I got away without sacrificing any demons to him. It took three gems and a small amount of money and he left. No way was I giving him my Tam Lin! And that was the first and only time I've run into one of them so far.

[FangzV]

mordaki, have you tried upping your vitality lots?
Also, just capture a buncha Luck Locusts to raise your luck and keep a fiend away.


I just recently ran into the white rider (or was it pale? can't remember now) and I got away without sacrificing any demons to him. It took three gems and a small amount of money and he left. No way was I giving him my Tam Lin! And that was the first and only time I've run into one of them so far.

Lucky. First time I battled him, he killed my Leanan Sidhe.
Then ended the negotiation.
Then killed me.

Second time though, I got off lucky with only a Luck Locust and some MAG.

This morning, I was going to go battle a boss when all of a sudden my Repulse Water wore off. Evil presence scared me half to death. For a while, I've actually used repulse waters hoping they'll stop a fiend encounter. Haven't actually tested it yet.

[Ark]

Speaking of being dismayed, do you still have to have a demon's loyalty maxed out before fusing them?

Because that was a pain in the ass in Devil Summoner 1. They should have still let you fused demons without maxed loyalty, but you wouldn't get some sort of extra bonus, skill, etc.

Yeah, you can fuse them now without having to max them out. That was a pleasant surprise when I found that out.

As for the topic, it's rather rare I come across them. It also depends on what demon you have following you too. There is a passive skill you get called "Unreachable Soul", which decreases Fiend encounters, but as far as I know it's a rather high level skill which by then is a bit useless as you can really start doing damage by then.

I'm fine with Red Rider, White Rider, that kageourumo or whatever guy, etc. I just don't like it when it's Pale Rider, since the dick starts summoning up to 2 others, and has no known weaknesses as far as I know.

Well if you have an Axe-type weapon you can just slam them with it and it will stun them. And attacking weaknesses isn't the only way to earn MAG. Draining attacks gives MAG, and the payoff is 50+ MAG for each time you drain, too. And hitting past a certain damage threshold in one shot will drain MAG on bosses, regardless of if you hit their weakness on not.

I'll try this with Pale Rider and see how it goes. It worked with White Rider...

[Foobar]

I actually like the inclusion of the fiends >.>

Keeps me on my toes, I'm just scared I might encounter Matador or something. If he's in the game at all. He was really the only fiend that was worth fearing in Nocturne XD

[Ark]

I really like the inclusion of fiends, it means that you don't have to hunt for super-bosses anymore. They come to you! I like how all the Death Arcana Persona are Fiends in this game.

EDIT: you can actually get all of the riders as your demons (Yes even pale rider). It requires a special fusion though.

[mordaki987]

:bs: I don't they are an annoying time wasting pain in the <4 letter expletive> and in answer to someones question my vitality is at 16 or 17 and luck locusts don't do bumpkis except again waist time.

I really like the inclusion of fiends, it means that you don't have to hunt for super-bosses anymore. They come to you! I like how all the Death Arcana Persona are Fiends in this game.

EDIT: you can actually get all of the riders as your demons (Yes even pale rider). It requires a special fusion though.

[Kenji]

I just killed White Rider. His teleporting made using Mabufu a bit tough, but eventually I started playing defensively (thankfully, Lilim and Aero absorb and null Mudo, respectively, which boosted the MAG I was losing). It took two tries, but I wiped the smug grin off his face.

Experience was a bit low for having just killed a Lv. 49 demon with a Lv. 27 Raidou, but the feeling of accomplishment was enough. :)

[FangzV]

I've actually used repulse waters hoping they'll stop a fiend encounter. Haven't actually tested it yet.

Oh cool.
I just tried this.
The last two times I played, I got killed by Red Rider.
I start up the game again right before New Moon, I quickly use a Repulse Water, and it fades off at New Moon.
But no Red Rider.
Seeing as Red Rider came every time I DIDN'T use the Repulse Water (in the same conditions I DID use the Repulse Water) I've come to the conclusion that you can avoid Fiends using Repulse Waters. I'm pretty sure.

[Pibbman]

I dont think you actually "give" them your demon, they just get to kill them, at least thats what they did to mine.

[Pibbman]

mordaki, have you tried upping your vitality lots?
Also, just capture a buncha Luck Locusts to raise your luck and keep a fiend away.


Luck Locusts in my opinion don't have a lot to do with keeping fiends away, I'll have 14 luck locusts on me, and they'll still come. Then again, I don't run from them, I actively hunt for fiends for EXP since I figured out a surefire way of encountering them. So that might have an effect too. >.>

[Ark]

I've actually used repulse waters hoping they'll stop a fiend encounter. Haven't actually tested it yet.

Oh cool.
I just tried this.
The last two times I played, I got killed by Red Rider.
I start up the game again right before New Moon, I quickly use a Repulse Water, and it fades off at New Moon.
But no Red Rider.
Seeing as Red Rider came every time I DIDN'T use the Repulse Water (in the same conditions I DID use the Repulse Water) I've come to the conclusion that you can avoid Fiends using Repulse Waters. I'm pretty sure.

I used a Repulse water, and instead I got attacked by White Rider on the 1/8th moon instead of New moon. So I guess it helps...

[Ark]

:bs: I don't they are an annoying time wasting pain in the <4 letter expletive> and in answer to someones question my vitality is at 16 or 17 and luck locusts don't do bumpkis except again waist time.

I really like the inclusion of fiends, it means that you don't have to hunt for super-bosses anymore. They come to you! I like how all the Death Arcana Persona are Fiends in this game.

EDIT: you can actually get all of the riders as your demons (Yes even pale rider). It requires a special fusion though.

I beat White rider with a Vitality of 9. The battle is a lot easier if you use demons that absorb death skills.

[FangzV]

I've actually used repulse waters hoping they'll stop a fiend encounter. Haven't actually tested it yet.

Oh cool.
I just tried this.
The last two times I played, I got killed by Red Rider.
I start up the game again right before New Moon, I quickly use a Repulse Water, and it fades off at New Moon.
But no Red Rider.
Seeing as Red Rider came every time I DIDN'T use the Repulse Water (in the same conditions I DID use the Repulse Water) I've come to the conclusion that you can avoid Fiends using Repulse Waters. I'm pretty sure.

I used a Repulse water, and instead I got attacked by White Rider on the 1/8th moon instead of New moon. So I guess it helps...

O_O
Well that's strange.
It's working so far for me. No Fiends when I should be getting them...
Well, I usually slap the Repulse Water on about 1/8 or 3/8 Moon before New.

[Wiseman4545]

mordaki, have you tried upping your vitality lots?
Also, just capture a buncha Luck Locusts to raise your luck and keep a fiend away.


Luck Locusts in my opinion don't have a lot to do with keeping fiends away, I'll have 14 luck locusts on me, and they'll still come. Then again, I don't run from them, I actively hunt for fiends for EXP since I figured out a surefire way of encountering them. So that might have an effect too. >.>

Luck Locusts won't stop encounters, but the more you have the less chance you'll run into them. With really bad luck you'll be running into those riders a lot more than you'll want to.

[Foobar]

I really like the inclusion of fiends, it means that you don't have to hunt for super-bosses anymore. They come to you! I like how all the Death Arcana Persona are Fiends in this game.

Most of the ones I've seen thus far are the same fiends you fought in Nocturne. I don't know how many of these there are, but I've put down White and Red Rider so far.

Lilim's Death Null is a big asset, as well as using evasive maneuvers for yourself and L2 for the demons when AoE attacks come up.

[StrikeRaider]

Sadly, it's only the riders, the one that looks like Raidou and strangely, Alice.

Also, never play king mode, White Rider at lvl 4 is AWESOME!

[Wiseman4545]

I really like the inclusion of fiends, it means that you don't have to hunt for super-bosses anymore. They come to you! I like how all the Death Arcana Persona are Fiends in this game.

Most of the ones I've seen thus far are the same fiends you fought in Nocturne. I don't know how many of these there are, but I've put down White and Red Rider so far.

Lilim's Death Null is a big asset, as well as using evasive maneuvers for yourself and L2 for the demons when AoE attacks come up.

The random fiends are the same, as they're just the four riders, but there are quite a few unique fiends in this game that show up as part of the plot that have not appeared in any other MegaTen game. (As far as I can recall.)

Also Lilim has Death Absorb, which is actually quite a bit more useful, as you actually gain MAG every time she's hit by a death spell.

[Nephlabobo]

I wouldn't mind them so much if I had had some sort of warning to prepare for them.

Now I feel like I've hit a brick wall and can't get past them. :(

[Moé]

When I first encountered white rider I was scared to death, but I killed him at the late level 20's or something, and then I killed red rider the first time he came after me. I haven't seen the other fiends.

[Hydra]

...fiends?
Heh. I wouldn't have known they even existed if it weren't for this thread. Got 25 hours into the game, currently on chapter 3, and haven't ran into one yet.

From my understanding they only appear if you are in unlucky status. And that status is easily removed, if you go visit that girl at that nameless shrine. Not to mention, it's extremely easy to catch those luck bugs.

[Wiseman4545]

...fiends?
Heh. I wouldn't have known they even existed if it weren't for this thread. Got 25 hours into the game, currently on chapter 3, and haven't ran into one yet.

From my understanding they only appear if you are in unlucky status. And that status is easily removed, if you go visit that girl at that nameless shrine. Not to mention, it's extremely easy to catch those luck bugs.

They can appear at any time, regardless of luck. Low luck just increases your chances.

[Hydra]

Well... the folks over at that soda shop is where I got the info from.
Regardless, I haven't ran into one... as of yet.

[OverGAR]

The more difficult the better D: I ran into one when i was beggining the game, the first new moon afther some events.

[dungeon_man]

Man, this lamefest of a thread is still going?

I haven't played the game yet, but the described encounters sound pretty cool. It gets dull always being stronger than everybody else like in most other games.

[Hydra]

finally ran into one... I don't know, doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Ran into it before the ingame info told me about it, but in Chapter 4, if you visit the soda shop and talk to one of the guys there, they'll tell you the conditions of the moon phase of when it activates.

Also, it seem that it triggers when you enter a new area during that moon phase and you get a warning that something is up, as soon as you enter that new area. I didn't try it, but you probably can avoid it if you exit the area and come back during a different moon phase or maybe going back to headquarters via the R1 trigger.

[Remiel]

Nope; I've tried leaving the area and coming back. They wait for you.
For me, it's always every other New Moon I encounter the fiends. I killed my first one at lvl 35 because...I thought they were a lot harder.....

[chito]

I just miss the triangle fusions.

[FangzV]

Nope; I've tried leaving the area and coming back. They wait for you.
For me, it's always every other New Moon I encounter the fiends. I killed my first one at lvl 35 because...I thought they were a lot harder.....
They wait for you, yes. But only if you get "Sense a dreadful aura" and then leave, or go into an enemy-infested area during new moon. If you go into a blue area wanning 1/8 or before and then go back to enemy-area waxing 1/8 or later then you should be safe.
Should be.

[Weeperofsouls]

Just to clairify... White Rider has a crown and bow and Pale Rider has a scythe.

On that note, the only rider I had trouble beating was White, and that was because I was totally surprised by him. Still beat him, even though it took a ton of items. Any other riders were wimps when I fought them, simply because I level grind like crazy. I'm 120+ hours in, at level 82 and only on Chapter 6.

[Reduction]

:agree:

the first encounter with white rider makes me sick...
It's really nothing when you always level grinding like crazy...
but, sometimes people didn't have much time to play game...

[Oni-Kagura]

The Fiends in this game are pretty easy to beat. They're tough enough to be challenging, but not nightmarish.

So far, no SMT Fiend battle is more infuriating than SMT3's Matador. He was just...a solid wall of murder.

[Reduction]

The Fiends in this game are pretty easy to beat. They're tough enough to be challenging, but not nightmarish.

So far, no SMT Fiend battle is more infuriating than SMT3's Matador. He was just...a solid wall of murde

yeah, It's really unnecessary to complaint about this feature...

[CoarseDragon]

If you don't know anything about the Rider's coming then they can be a real shock and a real pain to beat if you don't have the right demons.

[Hanamura Yousuke]

I personally loved the Fiend battles. They really pushed your limits! I hated to face the pale rider, but it was a massive sense of acomplishment when I finally ended him! Even better when you beat him at lucifers request.

[Enzeru]

So far, no SMT Fiend battle is more infuriating than SMT3's Matador. He was just...a solid wall of murder.
Matador is exaggerated, if you ask me. Nyx, though not a fiend battle, was tons more infuriating due to how long it takes just to get it down to a few hundred HP and then be hit with a Charm, have no turns to nullify it, and heal Nyx to full HP multiple times.