Do the Devil Summoner games really deserve 'M' ratings?

[cj iwakura]

I know it's practically SMT tradition, but these games seem really tame to me.

Raidou spills blood when he cuts things up, but that's hardly M territory. There's mild profanity, and a few suggestive demon designs, but that seems to be about it.


Granted, the subject matter is mature(re: younger gamers aren't likely to be interested), but it hardly seems to be particularly offensive.

[Enzeru]

I do believe that they should. In fact, I believe most SMT games should.

Don't forget that Lucifer is in the game.

[Pibbman]

Blood, Sexual themes and violence according to ESRB lol.

Probably a bunch of prudes who rate it.

[cj iwakura]

There's been T games with like eight or nine descriptors before.

[Pibbman]

I think its easily because of the mythological and religious figures found throughout the game, mainly the religious ones.

I would imagine the thought process behind ERSB's rating is to let people know ahead of time, and to prevent anyone getting all offended, which you really can't if the game clearly states "Rated M". ERSB probably doesn't have any category like.

*GOD FIGURE MURDERS
*DEMON KILLING

[Foobar]

Dunno what the ESRB's process is for games, but they've dropped the ball a couple times on Fire Emblem and Advance Wars, what with all the mild swearing, suggested murders and sometimes even racism between characters within the games.

I doubt its the occult angle of SMT, but more to the end with the suggestive themes and violence. Plus that Incubus guy. And Lamia or the other practically-topless demon girls.

[Pibbman]

That's right, I keep forgetting that blood, gore, murder and all that is perfectly acceptable in North America, but god forbid we see anything that is a natural part of life.

[Desperado]

The ESRB is a bit weird, if you look at the new Batman game coming this fall (sadly pushed back D:) it has high amounts of blood and gore, its got extremely dark themes, and yet because Batman doesn't kill anyone it gets a teen rating. Sure, the Joker can kill as many as he likes, just as long as the hero doesn't.

Sensible logic not in effect here.

[Ark]

Demon paraphenilia and more than a few drops of blood will give a game and instant M rating. I think for the Mortal Kombat vs DC universe, they had to remove all the hell refrences, and fatalities, to get a T rating

[Ark]

Blood, Sexual themes and violence according to ESRB lol.

Probably a bunch of prudes who rate it.

This is probably the same people (or have similar mindsets) that wanted the book "Da Vinchi Code" banned so...

[FangzV]

Well, let's take a close look at the rating and ESRB website, shall we?
(Really just looking at Abaddon here. No explanation was provided for Soulless Army, and I've forgotten some details of the game)


Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon

Platform: PlayStation 2

Rating: Mature

Content descriptors: Blood, Sexual Themes, Violence

Rating summary: This is an action role-playing game (RPG) in which players assume the role of a detective with magical powers who investigates a series of disappearances in a 1920's Japanese town. Players can summon demons to help out with the investigation and to battle other creatures and human enemies. During combat, players can slash enemies with swords or order their demons to use magic attacks (e.g., fire, ice lightning). Blood sometimes pools under enemies' feet when they are struck, and blood occasionally stains the floors and walls of the dungeon and town environments. Some female demons wear outfits that expose deep cleavage, wear body paint for clothing, or are dressed in rose vines that barely cover their breasts. A few demons have suggestive appearances, including creatures with phallic-shaped heads and torsos.

(Source (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=26529))

Completely forgets to mention Red-Light District, btw.
And the rating on the back of the box doesn't mention "Partial nudity" either. But like I've always told my friends: "My illustrated book of bible stories for children has more nudity in Adam and Eve than Okkiku or Lilith does."



MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
*Raidou has violence. Not intense violence though.
*It has blood to an extent that it took me half of Soulless Army to realize.
*It has sexual themes.
*It has some language. Language cleaner than what I've heard out of the mouths of small children. (Good god what has this world come to?)


TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
*Raidou contains violence. Not intense violence though.
*It contains sexual themes. (Fun fact: According to this ratings guide, E10+ games have sexual themes too!)
*It has some blood. The amount really depends on how much you battle. The blood is no more than a small red color underneath the demon.
*It really doesn't have gambling in it. It's referenced, but there's really none.
*There's strong language, but it's not that frequent.


By my standards, I think it's suitable for a T rating. If you want to stretch it THAT much, you could take ESRB's little rating guide (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp) and fit it into an E10+ rating.



So I guess it really is just the demons.

[Ike.]

The Raidou games also contain other adult topics like Japan's cultural racism, or the existence of the Mannen-cho district full of transvestite prostitutes. It's not JUST sex and violence.

[Elizabeth]

A game like this makes me wish there was a Teen16+ rating like there is E10+ since this game for sure falls somewhere in-between but I've always felt Soulless Army deserved a Teen rating. There aren't as many scantily clad demons, the sexual themes are very mild, and you can go through the whole game without even really noticing the blood.

[FFreak]

By my standards, I think it's suitable for a T rating. If you want to stretch it THAT much, you could take ESRB's little rating guide (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp) and fit it into an E10+ rating.

You ever fight Mara, hes not really a teen rated demon.

[Elizabeth]

...After getting to play this game a little more, and this is just my opinion, I'm going with the M because that marriage ritual **** is just awful. Please, please please tell me Akane gets rescued before it's too late!

[Moé]

...After getting to play this game a little more, and this is just my opinion, I'm going with the M because that marriage ritual **** is just awful. Please, please please tell me Akane gets rescued before it's too late!

Something is brutally ironic about this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Alucrid]

Well some of the demons might be cosidered a bit "suggestive." (Incubus...Mara) Honestly I'm not too concered about rating though. I've been buying M rated games before I legally could.

[ShinMog]

Well some of the demons might be cosidered a bit "suggestive." (Incubus...Mara) Honestly I'm not too concered about rating though. I've been buying M rated games before I legally could.

Lol, I've often thought that Incubus and Mara by themselves would incite the "think of the children" crowd to auto-stamp a SMT game mature.

[cj iwakura]

From the cutscene at the end of Chapter 5, I'm convinced.

This is an M game.

Someone gets buzzsawed to pieces.

[Vinnems]

Have Lilim talk to a Juboroku (the Frost tree demo thing) and tell me this didn't deserve an M!

[Anthonyelmio2]

I could care less about ratings just as long as it has what I like and I like SMT for the "M" rating and they are the pretty much the only RPGs that are "M" and most RPGs are not really "T" even. SMT:DS2 is more of a low "M" but it is still "M"

[Ark]

After doing Case File : "Fake Raidou Spotted", I'm supriused this game actually was released without censors of some sort. Did ESRB miss the gigantic penis on this case file?

[Sleepless Neko]

^Mara already appeared since P3 FES... Always UNCENCORED.
Not to mention there's Arioch and Mishaguji as well.

[FruitPunch]

The only reason its rated M is because of the religious themes.

It's really more of a T rated game with "Violence, Blood and Suggestive Themes".

[Tatsuya]

I think this game was WAAAY deserving of a M rating, in fact some parts are straight out of horror genre (which should invariably get a M rating in games for obvious reasons).
The marriage ritual,the buzzsaw, the red light district(the red light district alone could get it a M rating in most cases)Mannen-cho, mara and some of the moral choices, giving the pill to the bride or not comes to mind
Heck i know some adults that would have problems with this, so i definitely think it deserves M.

[Raidou-Raiho]

Hello im new here, i wanted to say that i think that DS2 its "M" because :agree:some demons are linked to the church, the sexual content: Men i have a sister of 5 years i cant figth Mara,and well some alignement choices they are most for adults..................................... I Dont know how My Mind Reached this point! i am Only 14! God myself How did i think like AN ADULT???:confused::surprise:

[PainKilleR-[CE]]

Remember that games are not rated based on playing the game. They are rated based on a compilation of the worst scenes from the game (or they're supposed to be the worst scenes from the game, this is why the ESRB has a fit if they find out someone snuck something in behind their backs).

If they rated movies the same way, taking content out of context, there'd likely be a lot more use for the NC-17 rating.

[Mellusia]

I didn't really read through this whole thread so it's likely already mentioned, but I do believe this game deserved an M rating.

In terms of violence and general graphic content, it's not an issue, but the over-all story content, I believe anyways, deserves it's high rating.

There was a lot of sexual innuendo for one thing, along with the whole issue revolving around the Tsukigata Village

It's pretty much insinuating that the sacrificial bride to the Tenshi Lords (that's plural there) get's abused, raped, and exists solely to give birth to more and more of these hybrids until the time for the new bride, at which point the old one finally gets killed. It's something that I, as a female, definitely felt uncomfortable about >.<

It is a mature story as well, of course. If I was 12-13 again (13 was an awesome age for me...), I'd be scrunching up my nose at all the stuff going on in the story >_>

[obake-no-shadow]

Hello im new here, i wanted to say that i think that DS2 its "M" because :agree:some demons are linked to the church, the sexual content: Men i have a sister of 5 years i cant figth Mara,and well some alignement choices they are most for adults..................................... I Dont know how My Mind Reached this point! i am Only 14! God myself How did i think like AN ADULT???:confused::surprise:
I will reach 14 by this November. Thoughts?

[Reduction]

If we're talking maturity on the biologist perspective... it's right... Devil summoner slightly deserves to rated "M"...
but if we talk about maturity on the psychologist perspective... it's not right...
even a 10-years old boy able to play the game without problems... as long as he was matured inside...
and I think I'm disagree with the "M" rate, I'm 15 myself... :p :seesaw:

[RoboKy]

Hello im new here, i wanted to say that i think that DS2 its "M" because :agree:some demons are linked to the church, the sexual content: Men i have a sister of 5 years i cant figth Mara,and well some alignement choices they are most for adults..................................... I Dont know how My Mind Reached this point! i am Only 14! God myself How did i think like AN ADULT???:confused::surprise:

Average maturity and video games why dont sexal Kuzunoha's words to understand the play they are relevant to the content

[monody]

I was surprised by the M rating on DSRK1, since it seemed pretty tame overall, but I think DSRK2 is both scarier and heavier on the "sexual themes," so I guess it's more deserving of the rating it got.

[Enzeru]

Average maturity and video games why dont sexal Kuzunoha's words to understand the play they are relevant to the contentI dont see rating is why M an rk vs ka releveant 2 M:confused:

[Hanamura Yousuke]

I agree with the M rating. Case and Point: Tae Sticker Prize, Bathhouse alignment modifier.