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Neveryll
04-19-2009, 02:19 PM
For people new to the old "hardcore" RPGs I would have to say Dark Spire may be downright discouraging. So I thought I would throw out some tips to help make your runs into the Spire a bit easier. I personally went with a party of one of each type of class to begin with. I also went ahead and decided what secondary classes I wanted them to be down the road. I recommend putting your highest armored person in the top slot and using the herioc formation. Yes that means only the top person can attack directly but it keeps your other characters alive longer. I put my warrior in the top slot and my rogue in the one beneath. A rogue has the ability to hide and then attack every other round from the shadows even if he's not in the top slot. Use this to your advantage.

Tip 1 - When rolling up your new characters keep rolling until you have at least a 10s for all stats and 11s or higher for stats needed for the classes you want them to be in the future. Raising your stats is possible but it uses a lot of EP.

After you have made the party you want head down into the training grounds and work things out with the local trainer. When you get in the door to the training grounds SAVE YOUR GAME.

Tip 2 - Gotta love some of the old RPGs in regards to sudden death. You could walk through a door and die from a trap at level 1. You could try to open a chest and die. Your whole party could be wiped out by a rogue rat or mushroom. So the rule of thumb is save, save, save.... and save again.

Once you have some gear make sure you equip your weapons and armor. Yes your adventurers really do need to be told what to wear to keep themselves alive :p

Tip 3 - Watch what items you equip to what characters. Some items like Daggers can be equipped by Priests ... but that doesn't mean its neccessarily a good idea. Doing so makes it so your Priest can't cast any Holy spells on the party. So which would you rather have heals or the ability to poke a rat once your warrior and rogue have both bought the farm from one too many bat bites.

After you leave the training grounds and the guild, stop on by the local Shop and buy another robe or two, some leather armor, and a few more swords. Now you have the starts of your adventuring group. Choose to leave town and head to your local temple if you want and have them pray to work up thier Faith. Then head on over to the Spire. Save your game the second you get in the door.

Now head on down the hall and open the door on your right. ARRRGGHHH! A MONSTER!

Tip 4 - Most old RPGs had the monster encounter just inside the door to a room. You will find random encounters out in the halls but with the Dark Spire expect to see something ugly staring your party down on the other side of most doors.

Fight down the monster and collect your reward unless its hidden in a chest...

Tip 5 - Chests are what the rogue lives for or dies by. Make sure that you select your rogue or someone with the secondary skill to open chests by using the L and R buttons up top. Examine it and then attempt to Disarm the traps from top down. If you open it without any probelms, great! If not you can expect a zap to your health bar or the dreaded notice that your poisoned! ARGGHH! What this means is that unless you have an antidote in your inventory expect to run back to town as soon as possible to get it cured or your toon will be pushing up the daisies. Every step you move when your charcter is poisoned the character takes a point of damage. My rule of thumb is to head back to town when my priest has two healing spells left to cast. Oh and when you do have an antidote and go to use it from the item menu make sure you select the poisoned charcter or it goes to waste. I don't know how many times my warrior has drank an Antidote while my rogue looks on in disbelief.

Once you have cleared the first room of the first monster..... Save. And walk out in the hallway and around the corner. Fight one or two more groups of monsters and heal your charcters up to full health and high tail it back to town. That doesn't sound very herioc does it?!?! Well the problem is unless you are very lucky your going to run out of health fast. Head over to the local Inn and rest in the cheapest room if everyone is at full health. this will recover the number of spells your priest and mages can cast. If your not at full health, use the second least expensive option to regain your health and spells. Save again.

Now is the hard part. You will run back and forth between town after every three or four fights until you have enough EP to train up your charcters levels at the guild. But before you do train SAVE IN TOWN.

Tip 6 - One die to rule them! One thing about old RPGs they liked to let you rely on chance for a lot of things rather than skill. When you leveled up you got to roll a die and that number was added to your health. What you rolled a 1? Too bad. Its not like you can turn reality off and reset the die?!?! Well in the Dark Spire you can. Save your game before you train any of your characters. When you go to train, train your level and if all they do is gain 1 HP, reset and try again. The early levels are the hardest when some small fry monster can take you out before you've even gotten a chance to buy that shiney new platemail.

Once you have gotten some cash from your small runs and a few levels buy your gear and continue on into the spire. I hope my tips help to make your game time more enjoyable and help you ease your way into the game.

Futomimi
04-19-2009, 02:53 PM
Hardcare?

AbsyntheDelacroix
04-19-2009, 03:28 PM
Well, I personally believe that I love this game exactly because it's "Hardcare". But I know that someone will read this and find it useful, so good job. But to anyone reading this, if you haven't yet read the first message and you haven't got any clue about what to do or how to train your characters: try, try and try again. Die a hundred times and reload. The few of you who will remain at the end of this grindfest will be great soldiers ready for anything. This is the best tip I can give.

Neveryll
04-19-2009, 03:45 PM
LOL. Supposed to be hardcore... Spelling is not always my strong suit hehehe. So I'll apologize in advance for any others in there . :)

Maybe a mod while take pity on me before I become known for writing hardcare game reviews and change it hehehe Then again sometimes its these kinds of things that build character. :p

NM. I found I can edit as long as I'm logged in sigh.. <face slap> Need to drink another Coke or two as I'm not quite with it here hehe

Gen Eric Gui
04-19-2009, 03:48 PM
Protip: The pre-made characters are the equivalent of level 3 or 4 characters. You can use them to grind golds until you have enough for good equipment, and then pass it on to the characters you made so they can actually survive.

Also: Sleep spell is your friend. All of your Mage's Lv. 1 spells should be set aside for sleep charges.

RPGNoob
04-19-2009, 04:08 PM
I justed wanted to thank you for posting this help. I bought this game on a whim b/c it looked cool and was done by atlus who did Persona which I had just bought and was loving. This morning I awoke with the idea to trade this game in on monday b/c i was finding it impossible to figure out what to do. After reading these boards I actually completed a quest this morning and only died a few times rather than constantly. Thanks a bunch.

Neveryll
04-19-2009, 04:24 PM
Yah it can be a bit tough going at first. I'm glad I was able to brighten your day some. I'm still working my way into the second floor and the basement here but survivability is up a bit at least hehe. :)

Enzeru
04-19-2009, 06:15 PM
Thanks for the sixth tip. I never would have realized that! xD

ReaperX30
04-20-2009, 09:45 PM
Thanks for posting this. Everything that can help us enjoy the game more is a big plus in my book.

abmox
04-21-2009, 01:15 PM
Make sure your adventurers are up to par before venturing in the basement. However, you can really rack up some EXP down there.

Delition
04-21-2009, 08:54 PM
I would suggest having 2 different save files. One for your permanent save, and another for "temp" saves before random events. It may be considered cheap, or cheating, but if you save before some locked doors and reload after you fail to unlock it the doors sometimes are unlockable without having to leave / level up. I overwrote my save file before opening the locked door to get to the clover key and just reloaded when I failed to unlock the door. Then again, I didn't use a second file, I just overwrote my initial file so I don't feel too bad about doing it.

Also, as someone pointed out on the GameFAQs boards, if you have an aggressive party with a thief in front, you can have the thief hide in the first round, making most enemies unable to attack as they'll only be able to attack the back row. The biggest exception is mages.

ORLOFT
04-23-2009, 11:54 AM
Anyone know what the extra skills like singing, or arts and crafts do?

Gen Eric Gui
04-23-2009, 01:41 PM
Some of them are requirements for second tier classes, some of them directly apply to events in the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were complete wastes of your EP.

ORLOFT
04-23-2009, 02:28 PM
Thanks! Do you know when the second tier classes start opening up to you? Is it just a matter or gaining those skills and levels or is there something in the story that opens them ala The Original Final Fantasy? ~no spoilers please~

Gen Eric Gui
04-23-2009, 04:49 PM
You have to do quests to get them. I think they're tied to the monster hunt quests, but I'm not certain.

Revgored
04-30-2009, 06:37 PM
Alright, HOW and WHERE do you get the Q's to unlock the Secondary Class availability? I'm lost here, I've got a couple chars that are now eligible, but I need to get the Get Secondary Class quest. Is there an invisible prerequisite that I'm missing here?

Someone, please. Help.

Gen Eric Gui
04-30-2009, 06:48 PM
I unlocked the Druid quest as soon as I cleared the "Hunt the Gold Coins" quest. That's the only one I've unlocked so far, though.

Revgored
04-30-2009, 07:27 PM
I unlocked the Druid quest as soon as I cleared the "Hunt the Gold Coins" quest. That's the only one I've unlocked so far, though.

So you unlocked the quest 'Get Secondary Class' AFTER you finished the Hunt Gold Coins quest?

Basically, am I going to be able to get secondary classes while on the third/fourth floor, or am I waiting until 5 and higher?

Gen Eric Gui
04-30-2009, 09:19 PM
Well, I killed the Gold Coins just after hitting floor 4 and fixing the elevator(You need to fix the elevator to find the coins), and when I got back to town and reported it I was able to access the quest that allowed you to begin unlocking the second-tiers. After I cleared that, I went back into the tower for a run, came back out and was allowed to go on the quest to unlock the Druid class. I have yet to see a quest to unlock any other classes.

And the floors stop being separated so cleanly after floor 3. For instance, you have to hit floor 5 before you can do most of the #### on floor 4. So I can't really say what floor you'll need to be on before things will unlock, especially since I haven't unlocked anything else yet.

Revgored
04-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Cool man, thanks for the insight. I'm really stoked on this game, but I spent 4 hours grinding to get a couple stat points today, and I'm itching for my first advanced class.

PFV
05-01-2009, 05:42 AM
I have yet to see a quest to unlock any other classes.

They unlock after you complete Garland's quests. After the next Garland quest, you should get Samurai, Ranger, and Wizard, and then Ninja and Paladin after that.

Tip 6 - One die to rule them! One thing about old RPGs they liked to let you rely on chance for a lot of things rather than skill. When you leveled up you got to roll a die and that number was added to your health. What you rolled a 1? Too bad. Its not like you can turn reality off and reset the die?!?! Well in the Dark Spire you can. Save your game before you train any of your characters. When you go to train, train your level and if all they do is gain 1 HP, reset and try again.

I think it might be worth expanding on this a little bit, from my experience (L23, post-game). No guarantees that I'm 100% accurate.

The way Dark Spire generates your HP is XdY+Z, where X, of course, is your level and Y is the hit dice of your class, and Z being your VIT modifier. Pretty obvious DND setup.

The major difference is, when you level up, the game will reroll for all your previous levels. If the new results is higher than the old, the game will set your max HP to the new result. If it's lower, the game will give you one HP.

To give an example:
L3 Warrior with 25HP and no VIT modifier (3d10+0) levels to L4. 4d10 is rolled for the new HP total. Roll results are 5, 8, 2, 10 = 25. Since this number isn't an improvement over your previous level's roll, the game simply gives you 1 HP.

Reload and try again, you get a really lucky roll: 8, 9, 10, 10 = 37, the game will just set your max HP to 37.

Over the course of the game, this means you'll most likely be seeing your HP hovering at around median. So, while you shouldn't really get permanently screwed on HP, you're probably never going to have perfect scores either.

In my opinion, rerolling for HP gains is useful in the early stages of the game (~L5), but later on it's probably not going to be worth the effort. When you're up to something like L15, you're not just hoping that one roll will be a high number, you're hoping that 15 rolls are high.

Neveryll
05-03-2009, 05:21 AM
Thanks for posting the formula. I wasn't sure about the numbers as I'm not far enough in to have seen the long term hp gains. I hoped there was a formula similiar to such to keep health from bottoming out badly. I'm curious if VIT is applied post level as in if you raise your VIT later do you get a more significant gain in health as a result the next time you level if you are at a higher level or does it only look at adding the bonus each level as a flat one-time bonus.

PFV
05-03-2009, 06:04 AM
When you reroll your HP, the new VIT modifier gets applied on each die roll. So you don't lose anything out.

To use a similar example as before:
L3 Warrior with 25HP and no VIT modifier (3d10+0) levels to L4 with a new VIT modifier of +3.

4d10+3 is rolled for the new HP total. Roll results are 5+3, 8+3, 2+3, 10+3 = 37.

Revgored
05-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Thanks to PFV for the advanced class unlocks - looks like I've still got alot of grind ahead of me. Too bad I didn't have a character lined up for Druid :(

Looks like some more killin' until I'm done with these damned rabbits.

Garlyle
05-05-2009, 11:47 AM
looks like I've still got alot of grind ahead of me. Too bad I didn't have a character lined up for Druid

Be glad you didn't have a Halfling Thief with low STR trying to become a Wizard.

Seriously. Do a dance right now. Having to raise STR from 9 (or lower for a couple people D: ) to 13? Rage Inducing amounts of Grind.

henbayward
05-12-2009, 06:35 AM
Hey, I just leveld my Thief, and he gained a whopping 16 HP! I know that doesn't happen often, but does it happen often enough?

Fuyukaze
05-12-2009, 07:43 AM
Hey, I just leveld my Thief, and he gained a whopping 16 HP! I know that doesn't happen often, but does it happen often enough?
only if you saved before leveling up and re-loaded over and over. then it can happen every lvl up.

Gen Eric Gui
05-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Not with the way HP gains work it wouldn't. If you had the max HP for your level(Meaning you made an absolutely perfect roll for HP at your last level up), and you made another absolutely perfect roll on the following one, the msot HP your Thief could possibly gain is 6 HP. If you want to know why, it was explained like 3 posts above yours.

If you got 16 HP, it probably means you were somewhat below average in terms of HP, and you got a good roll this time so you caught up.

abhslh
06-13-2009, 05:29 PM
This is a super great game but I am at a standstill and any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am trying to go to my secondary classes, I have completed the pre-requisites of slay the killer bunnies, shatter gold coins and the quests of getting the secondary class. When I pray at the two different statues for instance, the mage and priest statues and they glow, I go to the door 05 for the druid and it still won't let me in. I have tried all of the other doors too and tried all of the different combinations for the different secondary classes and nothing works. Can anybody tell me what I am doing wrong? Thank you.

Gen Eric Gui
06-13-2009, 07:43 PM
You have to actually start the quest "Train for Druid class" or whatever it's called. The door will stay locked until then.

sefalik
09-19-2009, 09:23 PM
Sorry to post this here, but I can't make a new thread... I guess this board has it set up new members can't make threads right away?

Anyway, I'm trying to make my Warrior become a Samurai (WAR/MGE). Based on the sites I've checked, he meets all the requirements, but the quest won't show up. I already did the training for advanced classes, and made my mage a druid. So, I'm not sure what the problem is. Can anyone help? :) Here are his stats:

Drawf Warrior (Lawful)
ST: 16
IN: 11
VT: 16
DX: 7
CH: 14
WAR: 11
THF: 0
MGE: 11
PRI: 0
Skills: Healthy Lifestyle
Oaths: "Thou shalt not grab the tail of a cat."


Edit: ah, nevermind! I figured it out. Apparently you need to do the "Slay Killer Bunnies" quest (or whatever it's called) first, cause I finished that and now a bunch of secondary class quests showed up, including the Samurai one.

Ultra_Luigi
10-17-2009, 02:56 AM
I hope you wouldn't mind answering my question since you did cover leveling up characters. I'm as far as the 3rd floor with most of my characters up to level 9 and 10 but lately I've noticed that whenever I gain enough EP to level them up, I always gain 1HP. Now, I mainly have my team set to heroic with the warrior as the tank. It's pretty crucial to gain as much HP for him as I can get from each level up but even he's been getting the end of the stick since level 6 and upward. I save my progress and load everytime I get 1hp, and that's basically all I get. Why do you think that's happening?

Ah disregard. I see that it was covered a few posts back. Anyways I'm loving every part of this game!