Shin Megami Tensei at Wii Virtual Console

[Emilio Morales]

Just browsing whatever I could find of Megaten and I found that "Shin Megami Tensei" has it's own site at Wii's Virtual Console.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_smt/index.html

[marto_motoko]

:O AAAAHH!!! Do want!! I honestly would kill (certain)people for this!

[unknown]

You guys do know that it's possible to play this in English without the Virtual Console right?

[Tatsuya]

Also, as atlus has said in the past, atlus usa would make nothing on virtual console games over here, so it won't happen.

[Kakizaki]

^Yeah, I believe I have said as much over on the DDD forum where Emilio hangs out, but the site's admin, who seems to love confrontation or is just overly stubborn, vehemently disagrees with this based on one small, vague snippet from an old interview.

[Enzeru]

Yeah, I saw this on GameFAQs awhile back. Kinda jealous, but I question my ability to complete it, anyway.

[Nephlabobo]

What about for PSN/Xbox Live though?

[Kenji]

If they won't translate the WiiWare version due to lack of returns for the effort, what makes you think they'd increase the effort (for the same minimal returns) by porting the ROM to PSN or Live?

[Ike.]

Homebrew Channel. Nuff said.

[slayn]

What about for PSN/Xbox Live though?

Beyond being for different consoles, how are either of those functionally different from VC (with regards to situations like this)?

[cj iwakura]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

[slayn]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

It takes time and money to translate a game and it is not at all likely this investment would be returned, let alone turned into a profit. It's one thing to localize a shmup or a puzzle game, but we're talking about roleplaying games here.

[Foobar]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

It takes time and money to translate a game and it is not at all likely this investment would be returned, let alone turned into a profit. It's one thing to localize a shmup or a puzzle game, but we're talking about roleplaying games here.

I don't buy this argument and here's why:

VC titles can have an perpetual shelf-life. There's no middleman or packaging to deal with, just the royalty schemes of MS, Sony or Nintendo for hosting the content.

I think this is more to do with the instant gratification of just selling physical copies of games than it is about the digitally distributed versions not being practical. Localizing a version for western gamers would not be instant gratification.

It would take longer for SMT to get enough sales on VC to see a payoff, but I think there would eventually be a payoff. Word of mouth has been powerful for the series in the states, so it would just be a matter of time.

[slayn]

It would take longer for SMT to get enough sales on VC to see a payoff, but I think there would eventually be a payoff. Word of mouth has been powerful for the series in the states, so it would just be a matter of time.

No, it wouldn't. Maybe if they could sell it for 30 or 40 bucks, but it'd be a five dollar game with a very limited audience. There has not been a single RPG released on VC that didn't already have a full English localization, even from companies that have games in much higher demand (Square-Enix). In fact, I can only think of a single non-localized game that has gotten a Western release (Sin & Punishment), though I'm sure there are a few more.

Most everyone on this forum is a huge Megaten fan, so of course we'd all buy it. What you need to realize is that we are in no way representative of gamers in general, thus what we would willingly pay for is not at all representative of what your average gamer would pay for.

[dungeon_man]

I don't think it's a question of whether US sales would offset localization costs. They could raise the price to make up for it if they believed it necessary. It's mostly likely a licensing situation.


Maybe Nintendo deals directly with the Japanese property holders to get games on the VC. If that were the case, Atlus Japan would collect the profits from a North American SMT translation, so Atlus USA would have no incentive to translate it.

Just one possible explanation.

[slayn]

I don't think it's a question of whether US sales would offset localization costs. They could raise the price to make up for it if they believed it necessary. It's mostly likely a licensing situation.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo sets the prices for VC games.

[dungeon_man]

^ Possibly, but virtual console games can be sold for more than the usual cost as some games have proven.

[cj iwakura]

There's quite a few imports on the Wii VC.

-Sin & Punishment
-Gleylancer
-Cho Aniki (I still have no idea how that got approved)

Mostly shmups, but still.

[Foobar]

Since people want to bring up Square-Enix...

I'll just point out Final Fantasy IV: The After Years. RPG, originally released in Japan, sizable quest and its getting a full english localization and coming to Wii's VC or WiiWare

Treasure's Sin and Punishment was a given, the dub was already english (broken nonsensical English if I'm recalling correctly, its been a loooong time since I played that) so they just had to give it some english text. Plus there's a sequel set to come out, so why not give the players a point or reference?

The licensing could be part of the issue, Nintendo does want thier chunck of royalties, but then, so does everyone else.

[Iris]

I don't think FFIV is the best comparison, since it's still pretty new, and is a sequel in an insanely popular series (Megaten, while it's been increasing in popularity on this side of the pond, is still nowhere near the Final Fantasy juggernaut).

[Vinnems]

The thing many people are forgetting is that all the games released on the virtual console pretty much made their money during their production run. I don't really know what up on it since I never looked, but the Super Marios, Megamans, etc. all sold probably millions at $50 or $60 back when they first came out. So it's no problem chucking them on the VC for dirt cheap.
Atlus would have to make up production costs selling an SNES rpg that few have heard of at whatever VC games go for ($5? $10?). Wayyyyyyy to risky to do.
Just go download the English patch somebody did. Better yet, FIX IT, because alot of stuff is messed up in it.

[Foobar]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

[unknown]

If you feel that badly about it, just buy 2 or more extra copies of the newest SMT game to make up for downloading two snes games that basically have no chance of ever coming over here. =\

Pretty sure Atlus USA will appreciate that more, then you wasting your time "advocating" the localization of the VC version, just so you could buy it for $5-10 of which they'd have to pay Nintendo for royalties or something.

Also SMT I and II were remade for the PSX and GBA, not really sure why the GBA game never made it over here, but it was probably because of SMT not being as popular as it is today.

[dungeon_man]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

You cannot steal something that doesn't exist. There is no English language release of Shin Megami Tensei available for purchase anywhere, so there is no possible way for such a thing to be stolen.

However, if you feel bad about it, go pay $10 for a Japanese copy on e-bay, then play the translated version on an emulator. That way you can feel as if you did your part by giving some random guy $10.

Aside from that, you may as well wait for the next re-make of the game because Atlus USA said it's not going to be localized for the VC.

[Ike.]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

Oh god, thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I mean, I thought it might just be kind of, you know, not a big deal if I played a 15 year old game on my computer that has since had several enhanced remakes that Atlus has no intention of releasing here ever in my native language, but now I realize just how much Atlus NEEDS that money they would have made from the sale of th--

Oh wait, this is that game where you kill God isn't it? Yeah that's never going to be released here. Ever. Not on a Nintendo console, anyway.

You know, I will admit that I have played this game on an emulator and because I am not a high-and-mighty tool who goes around criticizing fans of the game who want to play something that was never released in their native language. If anything, playing the emulated version has cemented my resolve to most definitely purchase a brand new VC or PSN title (assuming they port the enhanced version) in the highly unlikely event that Atlus feels it would be prudent to bring the game across the pond.

The bottom line is that piracy helps niche series like SMT. I wouldn't be half as interested in the series if I knew parts were being left out.

Get over yourself and go download it, show yourself to be a true fan of the series and enjoy a brutally hard and deep SNES RPG, and then pay full price for it if/when it comes over here like the rest of us do.

[Decept]

^I agree with Ike.

Not to mention that the random guy that you buy the new/used SMT from for $10 will actually donate all proceeds to Atlus.

[Emilio Morales]

The bottom line is that piracy helps niche series like SMT. I wouldn't be half as interested in the series if I knew parts were being left out.

Get over yourself and go download it, show yourself to be a true fan of the series and enjoy a brutally hard and deep SNES RPG, and then pay full price for it if/when it comes over here like the rest of us do.

Amen to that!

[Tsuko]

Also, as atlus has said in the past, atlus usa would make nothing on virtual console games over here, so it won't happen.

Other companies add their games knowing they wouldnt make profit off them but they add them anyway for their fans

[slayn]

Other companies add their games knowing they wouldnt make profit off them but they add them anyway for their fans

You're comparing apples to oranges. Capcom didn't have to translate anything for MegaMan.

[Tsuko]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

[SickleCellAnemia]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You want Atlus to put up the full-Japanese language versions of the games up on the NA Virtual Console???? Really?!?!?!?!

[dungeon_man]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You do realize that there is a huge difference in the amount of reading required to enjoy an stg versus an rpg, right?

[nbinney]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You do realize that there is a huge difference in the amount of reading required to enjoy an stg versus an rpg, right?

the VC import games are either in english already (Sin & Punshiment) or don't require reading (Bomberman '94). SMT is completely unplayable unless you're fluent in Japanese.

[SlaughterX]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

[Hamel]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

How many people do you think will but it?1000?2000 maybe? and that's only if it will be at a low enough price
Do you know how much it will cost to translate it and publise it?way more than the amount of money Atlus will get for it that's for sure

You need to stop acting like a selfish child that cries because he didn't get his candy

[Tatsuya]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

In many ways, it's neither reasonable for atlus to localize it (the cost of the translation would require a ton of people to buy it, most likely somewhere around 50k at least) and the fact that it's never going to get past the censors(at least not SMT 2, 1 is unlikely, but no way 2 would).
As for the pirating thing, they don't care simply because like someone said, it's never going to be released here, S-E might release a game for the VC translated if it's got a sequel coming, to boost sales of the sequel, but even that is unlikely, as someone pointed out, no physical copies doesn't mean no cost to the translator.
Finally, if atlus released it, i doubt anyone would hesitate to buy it here, but we all know it's basically a pipe dream.

[SlaughterX]

All I know is that I would buy these games over the majority of games that Atlus releases, I wouldn't even be an Atlus game if it weren't for the SMT series. And honestly, how many copies do you think most Atlus games sell, and what makes you think that these games couldn't sell just as well? They also have the option of releasing these games on PSN, but Atlus obviously isn't even interested in releasing games that are already translated via digital distribution. Their own loss.

[nbinney]

All I know is that I would buy these games over the majority of games that Atlus releases, I wouldn't even be an Atlus game if it weren't for the SMT series. And honestly, how many copies do you think most Atlus games sell, and what makes you think that these games couldn't sell just as well? They also have the option of releasing these games on PSN, but Atlus obviously isn't even interested in releasing games that are already translated via digital distribution. Their own loss.

As countless people have already said

everyone knows Final Fantasy, no one knows Shin Megami Tensei

more people will buy the new FF4 sequel than people will buy a translated SMT.

[SlaughterX]

First of all I didn't compare SMT to FF, second, the SMT series isn't as niche as you think, or at least not as niche as it was before Persona 3 came out. It sells well enough otherwise Atlus wouldn't bother bringing any of the games over here...

[Hamel]

How many people that know SMT live in the US?
Now cut that to the people from that group that own a Wii
Now to the people that would buy a digital copy
Now to the people that would buy a SNES era RPG in first person (a lot of people won't)
and finally to the people from that group that never played SMT1/2 or are willing to buy it again

Not a lot of people

[slayn]

ITT SlaugherX can't understand why some guys that hope to break into the video game business as translators will translate games for free yet a multinational corporation that has to actually pay people to translate games won't bother with something that is guaranteed not to recoup those costs.

[Gemini]

That's why companies re-release the same, old games, updating bits of them and claiming that they are enhanced portings, hoping to make easy money. Anybody said Persona?

[Hitoshura]

I can't imagine that an SNES game would take all that much effort and money to translate in this day and age, with the support of the original developers (I am under the impression that it is MUCH easier to mess with the original source code than to forcibly hack things into the game). If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, this is merely an educated assumption.

[Gemini]

The biggest problem is that there are probably no sources left from the SNES era, ergo they would have to hack the hell out of the engine to insert a (properly done) translation. That seems the main reason why they tend to avoid such a practice because it would probably cost them way too much.

[Hitoshura]

Yeah, if the source code was gone, they'd be pretty boned. In that situation, I could understand.

So, I was right about it being much easier with the source code?

[nbinney]

I was reading an old doc about translating games. I'm not sure if this is current since it was from 1998, but it sounded like the sprite pallet needed to be edited to have english characters, the game script needs to be dumped to text so it can be translated. THEN the hex code needs to be edited letter for letter in order to display the proper dialogue.

Since hacking games is not cost efficient, I had suggested that Atlus buy or commission a pre-existing fan translation.

[Migz]

These are all good points and I agree with whoever said that SMT is not as niche as people think it is. I think there are new fans (myself included) who would love the chance to see the orginal SMT games translated and released in the states. And from what I've read, the games seem interesting enough to make people think and stir up controversy, and frankly I think that's what we need in our current RPG's.
I think there have also been a lot of games recently that have been pushing the boundaries in terms of morality and gore, so I don't think Atlus really has to worry about censorship (although, I'm not familiar with SMT 1 and 2 enough to know exactly what would be censored; perhaps someone could clarify?). Look at Fallout 3, Bioshock, the GTA series to name a few. These games are constantly asking the player to make moral choices. And Fallout was a pretty niche market until the 3rd installment came out. But I guess the one thing they aren't asking the players to do is question their religious views, like some titles in the SMT series do (which is why I like them).
I think Atlus can do it, though. I think they can get these games released in the states. And if they don't release to the VC/PSN/XBL, then why not release them to the handhelds? I think they could really make their money there, if that's another concern of theirs.

[Hamel]

These are all good points and I agree with whoever said that SMT is not as niche as people think it is. I think there are new fans (myself included) who would love the chance to see the orginal SMT games translated and released in the states. And from what I've read, the games seem interesting enough to make people think and stir up controversy, and frankly I think that's what we need in our current RPG's.
I think there have also been a lot of games recently that have been pushing the boundaries in terms of morality and gore, so I don't think Atlus really has to worry about censorship (although, I'm not familiar with SMT 1 and 2 enough to know exactly what would be censored; perhaps someone could clarify?). Look at Fallout 3, Bioshock, the GTA series to name a few. These games are constantly asking the player to make moral choices. And Fallout was a pretty niche market until the 3rd installment came out. But I guess the one thing they aren't asking the players to do is question their religious views, like some titles in the SMT series do (which is why I like them).
I think Atlus can do it, though. I think they can get these games released in the states. And if they don't release to the VC/PSN/XBL, then why not release them to the handhelds? I think they could really make their money there, if that's another concern of theirs.

Read the above posts about the source code
and Atlus USA can't make games for the PSP/DS
if Atlus Japan will port SMT1-2 to the DS/PSP there is a chance

[Migz]

Read the above posts about the source code
and Atlus USA can't make games for the PSP/DS
if Atlus Japan will port SMT1-2 to the DS/PSP there is a chance

I see. Well here's hoping that they do.