Shin Megami Tensei at Wii Virtual Console

[Emilio Morales]

Just browsing whatever I could find of Megaten and I found that "Shin Megami Tensei" has it's own site at Wii's Virtual Console.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_smt/index.html

[marto_motoko]

:O AAAAHH!!! Do want!! I honestly would kill (certain)people for this!

[unknown]

You guys do know that it's possible to play this in English without the Virtual Console right?

[Tatsuya]

Also, as atlus has said in the past, atlus usa would make nothing on virtual console games over here, so it won't happen.

[Kakizaki]

^Yeah, I believe I have said as much over on the DDD forum where Emilio hangs out, but the site's admin, who seems to love confrontation or is just overly stubborn, vehemently disagrees with this based on one small, vague snippet from an old interview.

[Enzeru]

Yeah, I saw this on GameFAQs awhile back. Kinda jealous, but I question my ability to complete it, anyway.

[Nephlabobo]

What about for PSN/Xbox Live though?

[Kenji]

If they won't translate the WiiWare version due to lack of returns for the effort, what makes you think they'd increase the effort (for the same minimal returns) by porting the ROM to PSN or Live?

[Ike.]

Homebrew Channel. Nuff said.

[slayn]

What about for PSN/Xbox Live though?

Beyond being for different consoles, how are either of those functionally different from VC (with regards to situations like this)?

[cj iwakura]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

[slayn]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

It takes time and money to translate a game and it is not at all likely this investment would be returned, let alone turned into a profit. It's one thing to localize a shmup or a puzzle game, but we're talking about roleplaying games here.

[Foobar]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't it make them any money? Virtual Console games do cost money same as XBLA ones, and they wouldn't have to do any packaging or distribution.

It takes time and money to translate a game and it is not at all likely this investment would be returned, let alone turned into a profit. It's one thing to localize a shmup or a puzzle game, but we're talking about roleplaying games here.

I don't buy this argument and here's why:

VC titles can have an perpetual shelf-life. There's no middleman or packaging to deal with, just the royalty schemes of MS, Sony or Nintendo for hosting the content.

I think this is more to do with the instant gratification of just selling physical copies of games than it is about the digitally distributed versions not being practical. Localizing a version for western gamers would not be instant gratification.

It would take longer for SMT to get enough sales on VC to see a payoff, but I think there would eventually be a payoff. Word of mouth has been powerful for the series in the states, so it would just be a matter of time.

[slayn]

It would take longer for SMT to get enough sales on VC to see a payoff, but I think there would eventually be a payoff. Word of mouth has been powerful for the series in the states, so it would just be a matter of time.

No, it wouldn't. Maybe if they could sell it for 30 or 40 bucks, but it'd be a five dollar game with a very limited audience. There has not been a single RPG released on VC that didn't already have a full English localization, even from companies that have games in much higher demand (Square-Enix). In fact, I can only think of a single non-localized game that has gotten a Western release (Sin & Punishment), though I'm sure there are a few more.

Most everyone on this forum is a huge Megaten fan, so of course we'd all buy it. What you need to realize is that we are in no way representative of gamers in general, thus what we would willingly pay for is not at all representative of what your average gamer would pay for.

[dungeon_man]

I don't think it's a question of whether US sales would offset localization costs. They could raise the price to make up for it if they believed it necessary. It's mostly likely a licensing situation.


Maybe Nintendo deals directly with the Japanese property holders to get games on the VC. If that were the case, Atlus Japan would collect the profits from a North American SMT translation, so Atlus USA would have no incentive to translate it.

Just one possible explanation.

[slayn]

I don't think it's a question of whether US sales would offset localization costs. They could raise the price to make up for it if they believed it necessary. It's mostly likely a licensing situation.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo sets the prices for VC games.

[dungeon_man]

^ Possibly, but virtual console games can be sold for more than the usual cost as some games have proven.

[cj iwakura]

There's quite a few imports on the Wii VC.

-Sin & Punishment
-Gleylancer
-Cho Aniki (I still have no idea how that got approved)

Mostly shmups, but still.

[Foobar]

Since people want to bring up Square-Enix...

I'll just point out Final Fantasy IV: The After Years. RPG, originally released in Japan, sizable quest and its getting a full english localization and coming to Wii's VC or WiiWare

Treasure's Sin and Punishment was a given, the dub was already english (broken nonsensical English if I'm recalling correctly, its been a loooong time since I played that) so they just had to give it some english text. Plus there's a sequel set to come out, so why not give the players a point or reference?

The licensing could be part of the issue, Nintendo does want thier chunck of royalties, but then, so does everyone else.

[Iris]

I don't think FFIV is the best comparison, since it's still pretty new, and is a sequel in an insanely popular series (Megaten, while it's been increasing in popularity on this side of the pond, is still nowhere near the Final Fantasy juggernaut).

[Vinnems]

The thing many people are forgetting is that all the games released on the virtual console pretty much made their money during their production run. I don't really know what up on it since I never looked, but the Super Marios, Megamans, etc. all sold probably millions at $50 or $60 back when they first came out. So it's no problem chucking them on the VC for dirt cheap.
Atlus would have to make up production costs selling an SNES rpg that few have heard of at whatever VC games go for ($5? $10?). Wayyyyyyy to risky to do.
Just go download the English patch somebody did. Better yet, FIX IT, because alot of stuff is messed up in it.

[Foobar]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

[unknown]

If you feel that badly about it, just buy 2 or more extra copies of the newest SMT game to make up for downloading two snes games that basically have no chance of ever coming over here. =\

Pretty sure Atlus USA will appreciate that more, then you wasting your time "advocating" the localization of the VC version, just so you could buy it for $5-10 of which they'd have to pay Nintendo for royalties or something.

Also SMT I and II were remade for the PSX and GBA, not really sure why the GBA game never made it over here, but it was probably because of SMT not being as popular as it is today.

[dungeon_man]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

You cannot steal something that doesn't exist. There is no English language release of Shin Megami Tensei available for purchase anywhere, so there is no possible way for such a thing to be stolen.

However, if you feel bad about it, go pay $10 for a Japanese copy on e-bay, then play the translated version on an emulator. That way you can feel as if you did your part by giving some random guy $10.

Aside from that, you may as well wait for the next re-make of the game because Atlus USA said it's not going to be localized for the VC.

[Ike.]

So your solution - rather than advocate Atlus remake it or localize the VC version - is to pirate it?

Um, no thank you. I don't show my appreciation by stealing.

Oh god, thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I mean, I thought it might just be kind of, you know, not a big deal if I played a 15 year old game on my computer that has since had several enhanced remakes that Atlus has no intention of releasing here ever in my native language, but now I realize just how much Atlus NEEDS that money they would have made from the sale of th--

Oh wait, this is that game where you kill God isn't it? Yeah that's never going to be released here. Ever. Not on a Nintendo console, anyway.

You know, I will admit that I have played this game on an emulator and because I am not a high-and-mighty tool who goes around criticizing fans of the game who want to play something that was never released in their native language. If anything, playing the emulated version has cemented my resolve to most definitely purchase a brand new VC or PSN title (assuming they port the enhanced version) in the highly unlikely event that Atlus feels it would be prudent to bring the game across the pond.

The bottom line is that piracy helps niche series like SMT. I wouldn't be half as interested in the series if I knew parts were being left out.

Get over yourself and go download it, show yourself to be a true fan of the series and enjoy a brutally hard and deep SNES RPG, and then pay full price for it if/when it comes over here like the rest of us do.

[Decept]

^I agree with Ike.

Not to mention that the random guy that you buy the new/used SMT from for $10 will actually donate all proceeds to Atlus.

[Emilio Morales]

The bottom line is that piracy helps niche series like SMT. I wouldn't be half as interested in the series if I knew parts were being left out.

Get over yourself and go download it, show yourself to be a true fan of the series and enjoy a brutally hard and deep SNES RPG, and then pay full price for it if/when it comes over here like the rest of us do.

Amen to that!

[Tsuko]

Also, as atlus has said in the past, atlus usa would make nothing on virtual console games over here, so it won't happen.

Other companies add their games knowing they wouldnt make profit off them but they add them anyway for their fans

[slayn]

Other companies add their games knowing they wouldnt make profit off them but they add them anyway for their fans

You're comparing apples to oranges. Capcom didn't have to translate anything for MegaMan.

[Tsuko]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

[SickleCellAnemia]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You want Atlus to put up the full-Japanese language versions of the games up on the NA Virtual Console???? Really?!?!?!?!

[dungeon_man]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You do realize that there is a huge difference in the amount of reading required to enjoy an stg versus an rpg, right?

[nbinney]

There are untranslated import games on the NA VC, Atlus could always do that

You do realize that there is a huge difference in the amount of reading required to enjoy an stg versus an rpg, right?

the VC import games are either in english already (Sin & Punshiment) or don't require reading (Bomberman '94). SMT is completely unplayable unless you're fluent in Japanese.

[SlaughterX]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

[Hamel]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

How many people do you think will but it?1000?2000 maybe? and that's only if it will be at a low enough price
Do you know how much it will cost to translate it and publise it?way more than the amount of money Atlus will get for it that's for sure

You need to stop acting like a selfish child that cries because he didn't get his candy

[Tatsuya]

I jsut find it funny that some random guys don't mind translating the game, yet the company that actually owns the rights it doesn't give a damn even when there are obviously peopel interested in paying for it. Whatever...

In many ways, it's neither reasonable for atlus to localize it (the cost of the translation would require a ton of people to buy it, most likely somewhere around 50k at least) and the fact that it's never going to get past the censors(at least not SMT 2, 1 is unlikely, but no way 2 would).
As for the pirating thing, they don't care simply because like someone said, it's never going to be released here, S-E might release a game for the VC translated if it's got a sequel coming, to boost sales of the sequel, but even that is unlikely, as someone pointed out, no physical copies doesn't mean no cost to the translator.
Finally, if atlus released it, i doubt anyone would hesitate to buy it here, but we all know it's basically a pipe dream.

[SlaughterX]

All I know is that I would buy these games over the majority of games that Atlus releases, I wouldn't even be an Atlus game if it weren't for the SMT series. And honestly, how many copies do you think most Atlus games sell, and what makes you think that these games couldn't sell just as well? They also have the option of releasing these games on PSN, but Atlus obviously isn't even interested in releasing games that are already translated via digital distribution. Their own loss.

[nbinney]

All I know is that I would buy these games over the majority of games that Atlus releases, I wouldn't even be an Atlus game if it weren't for the SMT series. And honestly, how many copies do you think most Atlus games sell, and what makes you think that these games couldn't sell just as well? They also have the option of releasing these games on PSN, but Atlus obviously isn't even interested in releasing games that are already translated via digital distribution. Their own loss.

As countless people have already said

everyone knows Final Fantasy, no one knows Shin Megami Tensei

more people will buy the new FF4 sequel than people will buy a translated SMT.

[SlaughterX]

First of all I didn't compare SMT to FF, second, the SMT series isn't as niche as you think, or at least not as niche as it was before Persona 3 came out. It sells well enough otherwise Atlus wouldn't bother bringing any of the games over here...

[Hamel]

How many people that know SMT live in the US?
Now cut that to the people from that group that own a Wii
Now to the people that would buy a digital copy
Now to the people that would buy a SNES era RPG in first person (a lot of people won't)
and finally to the people from that group that never played SMT1/2 or are willing to buy it again

Not a lot of people

[slayn]

ITT SlaugherX can't understand why some guys that hope to break into the video game business as translators will translate games for free yet a multinational corporation that has to actually pay people to translate games won't bother with something that is guaranteed not to recoup those costs.

[Gemini]

That's why companies re-release the same, old games, updating bits of them and claiming that they are enhanced portings, hoping to make easy money. Anybody said Persona?

[Hitoshura]

I can't imagine that an SNES game would take all that much effort and money to translate in this day and age, with the support of the original developers (I am under the impression that it is MUCH easier to mess with the original source code than to forcibly hack things into the game). If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, this is merely an educated assumption.

[Gemini]

The biggest problem is that there are probably no sources left from the SNES era, ergo they would have to hack the hell out of the engine to insert a (properly done) translation. That seems the main reason why they tend to avoid such a practice because it would probably cost them way too much.

[Hitoshura]

Yeah, if the source code was gone, they'd be pretty boned. In that situation, I could understand.

So, I was right about it being much easier with the source code?

[nbinney]

I was reading an old doc about translating games. I'm not sure if this is current since it was from 1998, but it sounded like the sprite pallet needed to be edited to have english characters, the game script needs to be dumped to text so it can be translated. THEN the hex code needs to be edited letter for letter in order to display the proper dialogue.

Since hacking games is not cost efficient, I had suggested that Atlus buy or commission a pre-existing fan translation.

[Migz]

These are all good points and I agree with whoever said that SMT is not as niche as people think it is. I think there are new fans (myself included) who would love the chance to see the orginal SMT games translated and released in the states. And from what I've read, the games seem interesting enough to make people think and stir up controversy, and frankly I think that's what we need in our current RPG's.
I think there have also been a lot of games recently that have been pushing the boundaries in terms of morality and gore, so I don't think Atlus really has to worry about censorship (although, I'm not familiar with SMT 1 and 2 enough to know exactly what would be censored; perhaps someone could clarify?). Look at Fallout 3, Bioshock, the GTA series to name a few. These games are constantly asking the player to make moral choices. And Fallout was a pretty niche market until the 3rd installment came out. But I guess the one thing they aren't asking the players to do is question their religious views, like some titles in the SMT series do (which is why I like them).
I think Atlus can do it, though. I think they can get these games released in the states. And if they don't release to the VC/PSN/XBL, then why not release them to the handhelds? I think they could really make their money there, if that's another concern of theirs.

[Hamel]

These are all good points and I agree with whoever said that SMT is not as niche as people think it is. I think there are new fans (myself included) who would love the chance to see the orginal SMT games translated and released in the states. And from what I've read, the games seem interesting enough to make people think and stir up controversy, and frankly I think that's what we need in our current RPG's.
I think there have also been a lot of games recently that have been pushing the boundaries in terms of morality and gore, so I don't think Atlus really has to worry about censorship (although, I'm not familiar with SMT 1 and 2 enough to know exactly what would be censored; perhaps someone could clarify?). Look at Fallout 3, Bioshock, the GTA series to name a few. These games are constantly asking the player to make moral choices. And Fallout was a pretty niche market until the 3rd installment came out. But I guess the one thing they aren't asking the players to do is question their religious views, like some titles in the SMT series do (which is why I like them).
I think Atlus can do it, though. I think they can get these games released in the states. And if they don't release to the VC/PSN/XBL, then why not release them to the handhelds? I think they could really make their money there, if that's another concern of theirs.

Read the above posts about the source code
and Atlus USA can't make games for the PSP/DS
if Atlus Japan will port SMT1-2 to the DS/PSP there is a chance

[Migz]

Read the above posts about the source code
and Atlus USA can't make games for the PSP/DS
if Atlus Japan will port SMT1-2 to the DS/PSP there is a chance

I see. Well here's hoping that they do.

[Q. Mulative]

This game would probably sell horribly if it went untranslated. And the PSX version was useless for auto-battling, making the grinding intolerable. I think they should just remake the game for WiiWare, from the ground up, and market it as "The originator to the Persona sub-franchise." By leap-frogging off the controversy caused by Persona 3's gun-to-the-head gimmick, they can generate some awareness for the original franchise among the 75-million worldwide Wii users.

Either that, or go the distance and set the Trauma Team team on developing a retail-quality Shin Megami Tensei Wii (either SMT1 or a brand-new SMT4), or a Persona 5 Wii.

[cj iwakura]

Each remake of SMT1 has been better looking, but lacking in other areas. SMT1 on the SNES has the best music by far, and I love the sprite designs.


It is very much worth playing. Since there is almost no chance of this hitting the VC in the US, SMT fans owe it to themselves to bite the bullet and play the translation patched version.

It is worth it. The story is really good.


Also: you do NOT want to play this game without save states. It is brutal, and random battles are EVERYWHERE.

[Q. Mulative]

Agreed. You might as well stick to the Japanese VC Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 if you can, and the translation patched roms if you can't. Atlus seems to be taking a position similar to Nintendo's with Mother 3, regarding translation patches of their earlier games.

Which is commendable.

But then again, seeing as they haven't really addressed that issue, they may be sending their lawyers knocking on the translation patchers' doors as we speak.

I would not advocate playing with save states, just because it kind of ruins the original experience, though. Plus, I tend to overtrain, alleviating the need for save-stating dangerous battles. Doing so will often net you the gems and rare items you need for later on, too.

[sfried]

There's quite a few imports on the Wii VC.

-Sin & Punishment
-Gleylancer
-Cho Aniki (I still have no idea how that got approved)

Mostly shmups, but still.
I don't see Rondo of Blood, Pulse Man, Puyo Puyo Tsu, and a bunch of others on that list.

Nevermind the fan translation: Why would Virtual Console translation efforts be more expensive than doing translation work for actual retail media? I know it takes time and effort, but not much compared to any of Atlus' other works (in fact, it might tke up even less time). The revenues gained from VC are also sizable.

[Kenji]

Why would Virtual Console translation efforts be more expensive than doing translation work for actual retail media? I know it takes time and effort, but not much compared to any of Atlus' other works (in fact, it might tke up even less time). The revenues gained from VC are also sizable.
Look at it this way:

An SNES download on VC costs 800 Wii Points, or $8. Naturally, Atlus doesn't get the whole $8, since Nintendo has to be compensated for their bandwidth, goodwill, etc. So, for the sake of optimism, let's assume Atlus USA gets $2 for every download pass sold on the VC.

If you've played Shin Megami Tensei, then you should know that it's not a small game as far as text goes. Most of the text bulk isn't in the main plotline and dramatic dialogue, but in all the demonic conversations that crop up. It may not be as large as recent installments, but it's still a fair amount of work. Translators, unless I'm mistaken, are paid hourly just like everyone else. That adds up.

So, we have a translation overhead that's comparable to, I dunno, Devil Survivor, and a optimistic $2 return per unit sold. This doesn't take into account that the Persona series still sells 200,000 and under, that the main series isn't as well known, and that the first SMT is (frankly) ugly as sin. It's also fascinating how stingy people can be with $8 when they'll drop $60 without a second thought... just look at how almost nobody donates to the freeware indie game developers, and all they ask for is $5.

In other words, short of a miracle (and you don't make business decisions on the possibility of a miracle), translating and putting SMT on the VC will result in a loss. Period.

[nbinney]

Nevermind the fan translation: Why would Virtual Console translation efforts be more expensive than doing translation work for actual retail media? I know it takes time and effort, but not much compared to any of Atlus' other works (in fact, it might tke up even less time). The revenues gained from VC are also sizable.

I had mentioned this before but Onion said that $30 would be a more realistic price point.

[cj iwakura]

Agreed. You might as well stick to the Japanese VC Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 if you can, and the translation patched roms if you can't. Atlus seems to be taking a position similar to Nintendo's with Mother 3, regarding translation patches of their earlier games.

Which is commendable.

But then again, seeing as they haven't really addressed that issue, they may be sending their lawyers knocking on the translation patchers' doors as we speak.

I would not advocate playing with save states, just because it kind of ruins the original experience, though. Plus, I tend to overtrain, alleviating the need for save-stating dangerous battles. Doing so will often net you the gems and rare items you need for later on, too.

It's not so much the fact that they're dangerous. Once you learn how to exploit guns and charm bullets, you can end any SMT battle in a matter of seconds.

It's more that you can literally run into a random battle on every other panel.

That's enough to drive a dungeon mapper insane. SMT2 alleviated this with the encounter meter, thankfully(which also appears in SJ), but SMT1's encounter rate is horrible.

And the constant reinforcements. They're not an exception, but the rule.

[Kakizaki]

You can also negotiate your way out of encounters fairly quickly if you know what you are doing. Despite what some people insist on believing, there are definite patterns to the negotiations. However, I would agree that the encounter rate is incredibly high.

Also, you can easily play the first without using save states. Game is hard at times, but people tend to exaggerate.


edit - The only thing I found slightly aggravating was the flip-flop I had to do with the Japanese and translated version to make sure I attained the neutral path. Despite having played SMT 1 on a semi annual basis for the past 6 or 7 years, I had never managed to get the neutral ending until last summer. I think I owe that mainly to a suggestion from PFV that convinced me to start using a different and little talked about emulator.

[Q. Mulative]

Translating this game to put on the VC will result in a loss, except that you forgot to notice that there's a 75 million (and quickly growing) worldwide audience to tap into with the Wii. On top of that, the Wii has the highest number of people online (54% of its userbase, meaning more than 35 million online Wii systems accessing the shop channel). That's more than the worldwide total of either other console whether its users are online or not.

Even if Atlus get 1 penny from each sale, then even if only 1% of the Wii audience buys it, they're still making 6 million USD off of it, and if the rom were a 6 million dollar translation effort, then it couldn't have been done by fans. It's guaranteed profit, and possible big profit.

They're representing themselves to this audience as a developer of hardcore games with the new Trauma Team, and they're going to want to show this audience their staple RPG, their Shin Megami Tensei series in one way or another, whether through the Virtual Console, a WiiWare remake, or a full retail game.

[Kakizaki]

^I don't think you can treat the worldwide Wii user base as one market for these titles. Not to mention part of that base would include Japan - where SMT I and II are already out on VC.

[Kenji]

Even if Atlus get 1 penny from each sale, then even if only 1% of the Wii audience buys it, they're still making 6 million USD off of it, and if the rom were a 6 million dollar translation effort, then it couldn't have been done by fans. It's guaranteed profit, and possible big profit.
Step back for a second and look at this number you're predicting: 600 million sales. No Megami Tensei installment, in the entire franchise history, has sold 600,000,000 copies. The entire franchise, combined, hasn't sold 600,000,000 copies.

I mean, Super Mario Bros., the single most prolific game in the world, has "only" sold 40 million copies over 25 years. You cannot make business decisions with fantasy figures like this: it'll sink your company.

[Q. Mulative]

Even if Atlus get 1 penny from each sale, then even if only 1% of the Wii audience buys it, they're still making 6 million USD off of it, and if the rom were a 6 million dollar translation effort, then it couldn't have been done by fans. It's guaranteed profit, and possible big profit.
Step back for a second and look at this number you're predicting: 600 million sales. No Megami Tensei installment, in the entire franchise history, has sold 600,000,000 copies. The entire franchise, combined, hasn't sold 600,000,000 copies.

I mean, Super Mario Bros., the single most prolific game in the world, has "only" sold 40 million copies over 25 years. You cannot make business decisions with fantasy figures like this: it'll sink your company.

Oops, I made a miscalculation there. 1% of 75 million people is 750'000, and in the absolute worst case of profit, 750'000 U.S. pennies is 7'500 USD. I don't know where the number 6 million came up while i was doing those calculations. By reverse engineering it, it may be the cost of the VC games themselves (800 Points ~ 8 USD) that snuck its way into there, times 750'000 sales that results in that number.

And that's in the worst case, if you say that only 1% of the Wii's worldwide audience are actual game-enthusiasts.

[Kakizaki]

^Again, that is world wide. Japanese Wii owners already have access to the Japanese version of SMT 1&2, so you can't count them as part of your equation.

[Q. Mulative]

Well, Japan is a very small part of the worldwide population, and IIRC, there are 10 million Japanese Wii users (4 Million PS3 and 1 million 360).

So you still have 65 million more to work with here.

[Oceanborn]

And how many of those people have a Wii from a different region that can't even access the North American WiiWare store? ;)

You can go on and on with this, but believe it or not, Atlus can calculate too and figure out numbers and if they don't think it's worth it it probably isn't.

[cj iwakura]

I'm not sure if I can mention it here, but the program I used for SMT1 was 9x, and I had none of the talked about problems mentioned with Z.

[Q. Mulative]

You can go on and on with this, but believe it or not, Atlus can calculate too and figure out numbers and if they don't think it's worth it it probably isn't.

I'd like to agree with you on that, but it's hard to when Atlus develops games for the worst selling system this generation, the PSP.

I believe they even have an SMT spinoff for the Virtual Boy on their record.

[Kenji]

Oops, I made a miscalculation there. 1% of 75 million people is 750'000, and in the absolute worst case of profit, 750'000 U.S. pennies is 7'500 USD. I don't know where the number 6 million came up while i was doing those calculations. By reverse engineering it, it may be the cost of the VC games themselves (800 Points ~ 8 USD) that snuck its way into there, times 750'000 sales that results in that number.

And that's in the worst case, if you say that only 1% of the Wii's worldwide audience are actual game-enthusiasts.
Beyond the mathematical calculation, you're approaching the problem from the wrong angle.

Seems to me that you're going after this by saying, "1% of the Wii userbase sounds like a reasonably small niche of SMT buyers," and then calculating your numbers from that. However, look at that number: it's still 750,000 buyers.

Persona 3, the best-selling of the franchise in America, has yet to break a half-million sales in the two versions released so far (by the most optimistic figures out there). It's better-looking, more stylish, has a more user-friendly interface, and is infinitely more accessible than Shin Megami Tensei, not to mention noticeably more popular online. Yet, you're expecting an uglier, more primitive and user-unfriendly installment to beat the franchise darling by at least another half? All based around some vague logic that "a real gamer" must buy it?

[Q. Mulative]

I'm saying that 1% of the Wii userbase is a ridiculously small niche of SMT buyers. If an SMT is brought to Wii, old or new, then more than 1% are going to buy it, easily, provided it's advertised properly.

Persona 3 was released for a dying system, and is being remade for what many call a "failed" system, being dead last in sales for just about every month of its existence. All Persona 3 really had going for it sales-wise, was the controversy.

However, Atlus can ride off of that if they developed an SMT for the Wii, which has a much higher userbase, much more than 1% of which have heard of the controversy caused by Persona 3.

Obviously, they're not likely to try that with Trauma Team, since it caters more to action/sim players, although they did mention that it has more voiced dialogue than P4.

Similarly, they could announce an SMT Wii, whether it's SMT1 VC (Not likely, due to many factors), SMT1 WiiWare remake with all the streamlining that one would expect from one of todays games (such as preserving the fast auto-fighting this time around), a new spinoff or a Persona, and make a similar reference, either by referring to the amount of plot/dialogue in Trauma Team, or by pointing to previous SMT games that have made waves or controversy in and out of the gaming community.

By releasing it on any other system with the same hype, you're targeting a much smaller group. By developing it for Wii, you're catering to not only the largest group of consumers, but the largest group of NEW, recurring consumers and fans both-new-and-old of the Atlus brand and franchises.

[Olethros]

By releasing it on any other system with the same hype, you're targeting a much smaller group. By developing it for Wii, you're catering to not only the largest group of consumers, but the largest group of NEW, recurring consumers and fans both-new-and-old of the Atlus brand and franchises.

Nonsense. I could produce a rather expansive list of older school Atlus fans (ones in from the ground floor) that would have no part of a Wii SMT.

You're speculating (using inexact numbers and a bunch of rhetoric to try to make it look less biased). Nothing more.

[Inzaghi]

IObviously, they're not likely to try that with Trauma Team, since it caters more to action/sim players, although they did mention that it has more voiced dialogue than P4.

Actually, none of the Trauma games, which is one of our top-selling franchises, have ever come near anywhere near 1% of the overall Wii market either. Given that, why do you expect SMT would?

[Q. Mulative]

@Olethros:
Of course there'll be the few people that believe that their favourite games all belong on a particular console or off a particular console, and you aren't wrong in assuming I'm one of them. People with passion about their hobbies are going to be biased, don't you think so? I'm certainly not going to buy a PS3 or 360 for the privilege of paying more for an SMT game with polygons that are subdivided an extra step before compile-time. If I _need_ to experience them for whatever reason in that case, I'd just watch the playthroughs on Youtube or something, since there few people in my area that have an HD console, none that do that I know that are interested in RPGs so that I can visit and play their copy.

@Inzaghi:
I believe an SMT would break through Trauma-series numbers because of two big factors:
The first, SMT is one of Atlus' most recognizable franchises built up over generations over here. Their rendition of Jack Frost is basically the face of Atlus today. Naturally, they want to put their all into developing the latest and greatest iterations of the SMT franchise and make them available to the gaming world.

For the second, people do complain that third party offerings don't sell as well as first party for Wii titles. However, Monster Hunter 3 is shooting up the sales charts because it's a game that Capcom has evidently put all their effort into, rather than putting it on the backburner while developing, say, a PS3 version. There have been PSP games however, and they've been largely ignored, and that is a big reason that up until the Wii game showed up, that Monster Hunter has been a relatively obscure franchise over here.

So let me revise my original position on the matter. Any old SMT game, pumped out and released, will not sell to the Wii audience. There's tonnes of crapped-out quickie games for it to disappear amongst on the store shelves. A well-developed, well-advertised SMT game may sell decently on any console, but will shake the world if it's released for Wii.

[cj iwakura]

I think you vastly overestimate the market for 'dark' Wii games. No More Heroes and Madworld did very badly.


Being M rated is practically a death sentence, excluding flukes like Resident Evil 4, which was a budget release anyway.

[Kakizaki]

I'm not sure if I can mention it here, but the program I used for SMT1 was 9x, and I had none of the talked about problems mentioned with Z.

I tried SNESGT for my last play through and it was by far the best experience I have had nplaying SMT1. Zero glitches (aside from those caused by the patch).

[PFV]

^Glad it worked out for you.

In my experience, 9x is about as stable with the game as GT. But, I think GT wins out since it can bump up the frame rate without simultaneously speeding up the music and effects. That helps a lot with the artifact feel of a slower game like SMT1 (or I'm just impatient).

[Q. Mulative]

I think you vastly overestimate the market for 'dark' Wii games. No More Heroes and Madworld did very badly. [...]Being M rated is practically a death sentence, excluding flukes like Resident Evil 4, which was a budget release anyway.

Some of the most actively played Wii games are 'M' titles, for example, The Conduit and CoD:MW Reflex, which have enjoyed more sales than most SMT games on popular sony systems. Trying to sell them on unpopular systems is the real death sentence here.

[Olethros]

Wow. Ya know, between you and Ippiki whatever I'm starting to regret it each time I look into an SMT thread here. This is a real shame.

Fanboys just make me sad because I can't figure out the mind set for the life of me. How does one become so indoctrinated in this day and age? :confused:

[Kakizaki]

I think you vastly overestimate the market for 'dark' Wii games. No More Heroes and Madworld did very badly. [...]Being M rated is practically a death sentence, excluding flukes like Resident Evil 4, which was a budget release anyway.

Some of the most actively played Wii games are 'M' titles, for example, The Conduit and CoD:MW Reflex, which have enjoyed more sales than most SMT games on popular sony systems. Trying to sell them on unpopular systems is the real death sentence here.

I see zero correlation between the market for a CoD title (or Cobduit for that matter) and SMT titles. Not to say there isn't some slight crossover, but based on what I know from having worked in video game retail for a few years and from game playing friends, I just don't see the connection at all. Calling them dark is kind of subjective, but they aren't even the same genre as SMT. Maybe you are looking at your own proof in the wrong way. Maybe CoD: MW Reflex sold well because the FPS genre and the CoD series is popular in the West, not because it is "dark". (I have a really hard time labeling the themes in a CoD title dark)

I can't see my CoD loving friends or addicted nephew caring the slightest about a turn based rpg.

[Evilkinggumby]

Wow. Ya know, between you and Ippiki whatever I'm starting to regret it each time I look into an SMT thread here. This is a real shame.

Fanboys just make me sad because I can't figure out the mind set for the life of me. How does one become so indoctrinated in this day and age? :confused:

Damn after all this work to try and counter the fanboys, I fail again.. lol...

Well I guess if you can't beat em...

SMT for PS4!! The single hands down limitless best selling most powerful console to ever hit the market!!! Everyone should demand it!

:devil:

But seriously, why SMT 1 to the Wii? There is a ton of Atlus property that could and should be built on, revamped, or revisited besides those old games. Great as they may be, I too would expect them to be a bit of a risk property, and likely not as worth re-releasing as opposed to say, some of their newer titles. And Wii VC or PsN or xbox Live arcade.. is there really that big a market for it among the hordes of other stuff on each? Just because those early titles are what helped build up Atlus at that time doesn't mean revisiting them will be proven success.

[Yukichin]

But seriously, why SMT 1 to the Wii? There is a ton of Atlus property that could and should be built on, revamped, or revisited besides those old games. Great as they may be, I too would expect them to be a bit of a risk property, and likely not as worth re-releasing as opposed to say, some of their newer titles. And Wii VC or PsN or xbox Live arcade.. is there really that big a market for it among the hordes of other stuff on each? Just because those early titles are what helped build up Atlus at that time doesn't mean revisiting them will be proven success.

I respect Atlus' decision, but I DO want to say that there seem to be a lot of obscure games on the Wii's Virtual Console.


I think part of it has to do with promotion, quite honestly. The example I'm about to use is a different genre, yeah, but for instance with Silent Hill for the Wii, people were complaining that it's on the Wii because there are less sales. Now... I'm no expert at marketing or anything, but it seems to me like there's a gigantic potential audience for mature games; many homes have a Wii, and these homes tend to have adults in them. Wouldn't it be possible to market the game (and by market, I mean, really market; I very rarely see any advertisements for anything other than the biggest games) to that mature audience as something like, "Now a game for adults who don't like the childish games on Wii"?

[nbinney]

many homes have a Wii, and these homes tend to have adults in them.

Most adults only have Wii's because their children wanted them. My mom only plays games WiiFit/WiiSports related and my Dad only plays Zelda and Tomb Raider games. Since I moved out they'll probably buy their own system but there's no way I could ever see them playing any JPRG.

The only way this will ever happen is if Atlus Japan made an updated version for a current system.

[Q. Mulative]

-
I see zero correlation between the market for a CoD title (or Cobduit for that matter) and SMT titles. Not to say there isn't some slight crossover, but based on what I know from having worked in video game retail for a few years and from game playing friends, I just don't see the connection at all. Calling them dark is kind of subjective, but they aren't even the same genre as SMT. Maybe you are looking at your own proof in the wrong way. Maybe CoD: MW Reflex sold well because the FPS genre and the CoD series is popular in the West, not because it is "dark". (I have a really hard time labeling the themes in a CoD title dark)

I can't see my CoD loving friends or addicted nephew caring the slightest about a turn based rpg.
-

The Conduit, SMT, and CoD are about war. One is about historical war, and one is about fantasy war, and one's about sci-fi war. All of them are presented lightly enough that you can play them without getting nightmares, but you don't really get much darker than that without dipping into the horror genre.

Iwakura's argument was about 'M' titles selling at all, and there is certainly a market for them as shown with the sales of those two examples. I probably should have addressed the RPG genre argument as well, and shall do so now.

For JRPGs, the market for those is evidenced by recently reported sales of Monster Hunter 3:
Japan Launch:
http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=4634
UK:
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=121201
In the US and Canada it's flying off the shelves as we speak, even the online stores can't keep up with the demand
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002BRYXOO/180-7611467-5176039
(showing limited stock warning)
...and with recent articles showing that games such as Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Rune Factory Frontier, and if-you-count-Zelda-as-an-RPG-then-that-too, being RPGs that are the most actively played Wii games over the course of the system's lifespan. Sure, Fire Emblem may not have the nudity or shower/stripper scenes that'd push it into an 'M' rating, but it's just as serious a story as any SMT. And the Harvest Moons prove that the slice-of-life sims presented in Persona titles have a Wii-audience.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/04/april10wiistatschart.jpg

[Kakizaki]

The Monster Hunter series is a entirely different beast. I'm not even going to bother addressing why...

Attempting to make a connection between SMT, Conduit, and CoD regarding "war" is a massive reach and still does not address what I brought up earlier regarding genre preferences and the popularity of certain series in the West. This is really getting incredibly silly.

[dungeon_man]

Lots of crazy talk here.

Anyway, for people talking about the fan translation of SMT 1, here are a few things to keep in mind:

1. Having no access to the source code, the programmer had to de-compile the ROM into disorganized assembly-language code, figure out where to make changes, make those changes, and re-compile the ROM. This is highly specialized work requiring vast experience coding for the 65xxx family of processors.

2. Anybody at Atlus who can code for a 65xxx processor has probably not done so since the mid 90s when they were done making SNES games, so they would be a bit rusty.

3. Atlus may not have the SNES SMT source code any longer. If that were the case, they would use techniques similar to the guy who coded the fan translation. This would add serious time to the project.

I doubt that Atlus wants to pay for a translation and pull a programmer off of a current project to stare at decompiled blob of assembly code for an antiquated processor so they can localize a game that might only sell a few thousand copies.

That is why these things are only done by hobbyists.

[Raptorg]

What about for PSN/Xbox Live though?

Beyond being for different consoles, how are either of those functionally different from VC (with regards to situations like this)?

More SMT fans have a 360 or a PS3.

[Q. Mulative]

The Monster Hunter series is a entirely different beast. I'm not even going to bother addressing why...

Attempting to make a connection between SMT, Conduit, and CoD regarding "war" is a massive reach and still does not address what I brought up earlier regarding genre preferences and the popularity of certain series in the West. This is really getting incredibly silly.

I think you're exaggerating a little by saying it's a "massive" reach. I'm just stating the facts here, and all the corporate propaganda and ad-hominem attacks in the world won't make them any less true.

The Wii is among the best-selling consoles in history, with only other Nintendo consoles above it. It has all the audiences: Some people may have a PS3. Some may have a 360. Almost all of them have Wii consoles, except for those that really, really hate Nintendo. Significantly more Wii users than those of any other console are adept gamers familiar with old franchises like SMT, and most of the Wii audience plays JRPGs avidly as shown by that previous chart.

[Kakizaki]

I think you're exaggerating a little by saying it's a "massive" reach. I'm just stating the facts here, and all the corporate propaganda and ad-hominem attacks in the world won't make them any less true...

... Significantly more Wii users than those of any other console are adept gamers familiar with old franchises like SMT, and most of the Wii audience plays JRPGs avidly as shown by that previous chart.What proof do you possibly have to back statements like these up? This is pure speculation on your part and nothing more.

Stating facts? First of all, what facts have been provided here that are reliable? Secondly, facts are meaningless when people attempt to shoehorn them into theories in which they don't belong in the first place. There is no correlation between the audience of Conduit and CoD and you really have yet to prove that there is. Your statement that those titles are potentially similar is not a fact. It is your opinion.

Sales figures for modern rpgs on the Wii (and rpgs that are much different than SMT 1 or 2 at that) do little to prove your point either.

I would love to see SMT 1 and 2 make it out here on VC, but it isn't happening unless there is a miracle. That isn't corporate propaganda. That is a realization based on years of experience in video game retail. This sizable audience that you seem to feel is present does not exist, and even if it did exist, the people that comprise such audiences are often quite fickle.

[slayn]

Kaki, you're essentially screaming at a brick wall here.

[Kakizaki]

^I know that you are correct. :/

I appreciate Q's enthusiasm, and I support any and all interest in the older SMT titles (anyone that has been around here for a while knows how I feel about the older games in the franchise) but I do get tired of these discussions. People think they are stating new ideas / angles, but a lot of it has been said here previously. Many times over for that matter.

[Yukichin]

many homes have a Wii, and these homes tend to have adults in them.

Most adults only have Wii's because their children wanted them. My mom only plays games WiiFit/WiiSports related and my Dad only plays Zelda and Tomb Raider games. Since I moved out they'll probably buy their own system but there's no way I could ever see them playing any JPRG.

The only way this will ever happen is if Atlus Japan made an updated version for a current system.


Yeah, I can see that; I was just saying that it could at least be an attempt to get more of an audience. I know that Atlus won't bring it over, but even so it has a huge potential.

[Q. Mulative]

I'm glad that you appreciate my enthusiasm at least. By the other discussions, It's evident that there are more than just the 'fanboys' who'd like to see this otherwise obscure series return home to Nintendo consoles.

[Hamel]

Did you see how SMT1 looks?how many people TODAY would you think that will get that?I hear complaints about PS2-era graphics (and even 3D Dot Heroes) so that?

[Kenji]

Q. Mulative, I think you're pursuing two completely separate lines of thought.

If you're talking about a new MegaTen game on the Wii, I don't think that's unlikely at all. The Wii is currently the console market winner, even though third-party games don't seem to sell as well as those figures imply. Add to that the cheap development cost relative to the 360 (a failure in Japan) and the PS3 (which is apparently difficult), and Wii development is a viable option.

Personally, I'd like to see the next Raidou Kuzunoha game (or a Geirin Kuzunoha the 18th spinoff?) on the Wii, complete with Wiimote (with MotionPlus) slashing and aiming. That'd not only be pretty damn cool, but it'd also justify using the Wii's technology.

This is viable.

What isn't viable is Shin Megami Tensei, an RPG that I love but know that the vast majority of my friends - even the fans of MegaTen - will never play. Until you figure out the little tricks, the gameplay is hard, the interface is unfriendly and archaic, the visuals are bland at best, and the story comes in tiny bits and pieces with zero visual flair.

It's a real commitment, and I guarantee you that most gamers don't have that level of commitment. Even retro-gamers won't bite, because you can't have nostalgia for a game you've never played. This is why Final Fantasy is on the Virtual Console, but Shin Megami Tensei will never be. Facts of life.

See, data on modern RPG sales can be used when talking about a new, modern MegaTen game. They can't be used when talking about bringing over a port of a game that doesn't look the least bit interesting at first glance.

[Olethros]

I'm glad that you appreciate my enthusiasm at least. By the other discussions, It's evident that there are more than just the 'fanboys' who'd like to see this otherwise obscure series return home to Nintendo consoles.

Just when I thought you were going to sound somewhat reasonable you had to go and pull this tired old chestnut out of the fire. Brand loyalty by any developer/publisher is as outdated a notion as it should be for consumers. They'll go where the money is just like people should go where the games are.

Also, this little gem:
The Wii is among the best-selling consoles in history, with only other Nintendo consoles above it. It has all the audiences: Some people may have a PS3. Some may have a 360. Almost all of them have Wii consoles, except for those that really, really hate Nintendo.

I was going to just ignore it but since I answered the last one I'll address this as well. I do not have a Wii and I have nothing against Nintendo as a company. That would be asinine. I don't agree with everything they do but I also don't agree with everything Microsoft or Sony does either. For most rational (non-fanboy) people the decision will come down to what games they want to play, what interface they prefer, and whether or not HD is important to them. Any decisions based on "loyalty" are ludicrous.

[Evilkinggumby]

For most rational (non-fanboy) people the decision will come down to what games they want to play, what interface they prefer, and whether or not HD is important to them. Any decisions based on "loyalty" are ludicrous.

I have to sort of agree with Olethros (don't let it go to your head Old man!) in that I don't think most folk follow a "loyalty" line of thinking with console purchases, but also the fact even if they DID... At this point a lot of gamers either have owned, or still own, the last 3 major consoles(Ps2, GC and Xbox 1) as they were on the market for so long and competed so heavily that it was viable to buy each over time and not break the bank. Hell I've owned all three, and I'm fairly poor.

Course I am speaking from the U.S. side, overseas, the story changes significantly.

So if most folk had last gen's 3 consoles(or likely at least 2 of the three) they likely got games and had fond memories of each company, so are less likely to be "brand loyal" unless they really really hated owning one of them.

I also don't own a Wii. I do own a Gamecube. So I hate nintendo? NO. Do I own a Xbox360? yes. Would I love to own a Ps3? hells yes. Do i want a Wii? not at all, I know a handful of people with them and none of them touch it anymore. It had it's shiny moment for a month, then became an innocuous dust collector. WHen I consider the Wii I think like Olethros did and consider cost, games, and overall satisfaction and honestly, it isn't there.

I wouldn't expect them to dig into the old SMT games to re release unless they planned to completely revamp and revitalize the games themselves, in which case when you consider the dev time and effort for the money.. they might as well just make a newer fresher game(i.e. sequal) and keep moving forward. There are so many companies that are reaching into their storehouses to re-hash and re-do old properties, I wouldn't put it past them to try and see if pitching a SMT 1 redo would work... But when the smoke clears and the fists stop bleeding, the final result will be the same. People have repeatedly said why current audiences won't appreciate the older games. Most likely the creators look back on their original games fondly, but also recognise the sequals and spin offs and stuff were steps of evolution in the gameplay's potential, and stepping back to something somewhat antiquated, despite having merit with concept and idea, is just not the way to go.

Move forward and watch the horizon. This company is going to steer to where the money is, and if they haven't already revisited the properties, they likely have looked at the potential and realized it is just not worth it anymore. Even as a VC release.

[Olethros]

I have to sort of agree with Olethros (don't let it go to your head Old man!)


I breathe a giant sigh of relief at that. Had you not, I might have become a broken shell of a man.

[Q. Mulative]

Just when I thought you were going to sound somewhat reasonable you had to go and pull this tired old chestnut out of the fire. Brand loyalty by any developer/publisher is as outdated a notion as it should be for consumers. They'll go where the money is just like people should go where the games are.


It seems we're on the same page here. We're talking about bringing SMT to where the money is. That they'd be home on Nintendo consoles again would be a bonus for me. That you and maybe a few other people on this board don't have a Wii makes that a minority. That the majority of gamers do, makes them "where the money is."

And if SMT games were ever about graphics, they would have continued on the N64 and XBox instead of the graphically weakest systems of those generations.

[Kakizaki]

^ I get what you are attempting to to say, but stating that the N64 was the powerhouse of its generation graphics wise is kind of laughable.

And there was a SMT title on Xbox...

[Pantaloons]

I doubt we're ever going to see an official localization SMT 1 & 2 unless those games are remade again, or something. I wonder why the GBA port/remakes were never localized though?

[sueisfine]

Probably because they sold very poorly in Japan when they were released, and Shin Megami Tensei, at the time, had nowhere near the popularity in the west as it does now. Localizing a game that was a commercial failure in a country where it actually is somewhat popular seems like a bad idea, particularly if the game is being localized for a country where the game has an almost nonexistant fanbase (at the time, anyway.)

I don't know if this is the primary reason, but I'd bet on it being a factor, at least.

[Tsuko]

If Atlus of Japan happened to let SMT 1 and 2 have their turn for remakes on the DS or PSP it would be awesome, especially if they were made for the 3DS they would look amazing!

[Q. Mulative]

^ I get what you are attempting to to say, but stating that the N64 was the powerhouse of its generation graphics wise is kind of laughable.

And there was a SMT title on Xbox...

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/shinmegamitenseinine/news.html?sid=6073223&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures%3Btitle%3B1

Was this what you were referring to?

And unless you're referring to pre-rendered cutscenes, or the Dreamcast, the N64 was the top of the line for in-game graphics in its generation.

[Kakizaki]

^Again, subjective. On paper some of what the N64 could do looked great compared to the PSX and Saturn. But in reality, it was a different story due to numerous technical limitations / lack of tools.

There are definitely some great 3D titles on the N64 but I will take what the PSX could do in terms of 3D and what the Saturn could do for 2D over the N64 capabilities any day of the week. I have to wonder if MIP, Devil Summoner, Soul Hackers, Persona IS, and Persona EP would have had to have been radically different titles on the N64 - three of those titles having been released or in development before the N64 was even out in Japan.

And yes, I was referring to SMT Nine which did come out in Japan - the online content was never completed.

[Silverevilchao]

Ok, in terms of 3D graphics, N64 vs. PS1...PS1 wins, hands-down. Compare Zelda: Ocarina of Time to one of the original Crash Bandicoot games, and it's ridiculously obvious. Even more so if you compare it to a game in the Spyro trilogy.


Aaaaanyway, back on topic...weren't there PS1 remakes of SMTs I & II? Why can't the code be used for those instead of the SNES versions? And then it could be put on PSN, which makes more sense, considering that the very vast majority of the SMT games that have come out over the last several years have been on Sony consoles. I bet the censors wouldn't be as bad, either...we're talking about the console with God of War III, which has a sex minigame, for crying out loud.

An alternate route would be to remake both games and put them on the DS, since the DS got SMT IV, so it would easier to get the gamers who bought Strange Journey to pick up SMTs I & II, since the gameplay is similar in many aspects. It would also allow for the prettying up of graphics, balancing the gameplay, etc..

Money would indeed be an issue, though, but I can dream, can't I?

[Todd]

Yeah..I agree with some of the posters here. As much as I would love to see 1 and 2 released here, I can't see it happening at all. But that doesn't mean I can't import them! :p And well, play on an emulator of course.

[Q. Mulative]

Oh wait, this is that game where you kill God isn't it? Yeah that's never going to be released here. Ever. Not on a Nintendo console, anyway.

Excuse you. Baroque. Wii launch title. You (same spoiler) many times. Not only that, it doesn't even put up a fight. It's tied up and helpless, which is even more controversial.

[Iris]

Hell, SaGa 1 was allowed to come out in America and you kill God there, and this was back in ye olde days of the original Game Boy.

Granted, SaGa was much less explicit about it (he's just "creator") than, say, SMT2, in which it's made very clear that 1) this is YHWH and not just some random god, and 2) YHWH is...well, kind of a douchebag. But killing God isn't in itself a dealbreaker, and it's certainly much less of a dealbreaker in this era than it was twenty years ago.

[DarkRPGMaster]

Ahem, you kinda kill god in Star Ocean: Til the End of Time.

[nbinney]

They kill god at the end of Star Trek V.

[Evilkinggumby]

They kill god at the end of "Old Yeller" too. .. ... *DOH*