Persona IS discussion. (Warning - Heavy Spoilers)

[Kakizaki]

I know there is already an existing thread regarding the patch, but I wanted a thread dedicated to more in depth story / game play discussion. Anyway, heavy spoilers ahead.

I was curious as to who other people picked when the time came and why. I'll assume that those of you that have completed the game or have played far enough know what I am referring to. Before I started the game, I did a decent amount of reading on various message boards. I found that a lot of people seemed to dislike Lisa so I wasn't sure how I would feel about her. As the game progressed, I found myself liking her more and more. I liked that she had flaws. It was still tough to decide (and I sometimes wondered if it was only this tough because I was letting other people's opinions influence me), but I had to go with Ginko. Maya seemed more motherly to me. While I liked Maya, I don't think I liked her nearly as much as everyone else seems to. After I made the choice, I felt pretty decent about it.

Skipping ahead to the end, I need a little help understanding something. After Maya was stabbed with the Spear of Destiny, why did her feelings regarding the fear of being forgotten also relate to the Grand Cross / world destruction. Was Nyarlathotep implying that all humans have an innate desire for destruction? I'm just a little confused on that connection.

I was going to replay EP after taking a break from Persona for a short while, but I am having a hard time resisting starting it immediately. I haven't played it since 2002/3, but I'm pretty sure I won't like the characters as much as the ones found in IS.

[Tatsuya]

I chose ginko too, to this day i still prefer her to most of the heroines in the entire shin megami tensei series and spinoffs, mainly for the same reasons as you said, she has flaws, and in the end she's more human than maya.

About the nyarlathotep and all humans having a want for it deep down inside, that's actually probably true, and probably what he was referring to.
Even the most happy, carefree person tends to wish for the world around them to end from time to time.

As for innocent sin compared to eternal punishment,eternal punishment feels pretty bland in comparison to persona 2 innocent sin as much as i hate to admit it, i still need to go through it to mess up and wake up michelle and lisa, to get the further plot points, to be honest i'll probably play it to get those segments alone.

[LadyRayna]

I chose Jun mainly because of the scene when he becomes himself again. I felt that that scene conveyed how much Jun and Tatsuya liked each other, or should I say how much Jun liked Tatsuya.

Maya’s feelings aren’t related to the Grand Cross/world destruction. Actually, Maya is a descendent of the Maiyan aliens, making her a Maiyan Maiden, and her death fulfilled the Oracle, which brought the destruction of the world. That crazy bitch Okamura is also a Maiyan Maiden.

[Kakizaki]

Maya’s feelings aren’t related to the Grand Cross/world destruction. Actually, Maya is a descendent of the Maiyan aliens, making her a Maiyan Maiden, and her death fulfilled the Oracle, which brought the destruction of the world. That crazy bitch Okamura is also a Maiyan Maiden.

Ohh, I see. I understood about Okamura, but now I feel slow ;) Just kind of weird that Okamura wouldn't commit suicide since she wanted to die - at least I thought she did.

[LadyRayna]

Maya’s feelings aren’t related to the Grand Cross/world destruction. Actually, Maya is a descendent of the Maiyan aliens, making her a Maiyan Maiden, and her death fulfilled the Oracle, which brought the destruction of the world. That crazy bitch Okamura is also a Maiyan Maiden.

Ohh, I see. I understood about Okamura, but now I feel slow ;) Just kind of weird that Okamura wouldn't commit suicide since she wanted to die - at least I thought she did.

Apparently, Okamura was planning on committing suicide, but Nyarlathotep manipulated her into killing Maya. Now comes the question: why did he do it?

[Flußkönig]

I picked Maya, although I did feel bad for Ginko when I made the choice (not bad enough I guess :devil:). I think part of it was because I played through EP first, but I also though it was pretty evident throughout the story (even going back to there time as the masquerade) that Tatsuya liked Maya while he just considered Lisa a good/kind of annoying friend.

I didn't think it was really clear exactly how Maya felt about Tatsuya in IP, but that didn't stop her from flirting with poor Tatsu whenever she had a chance.

Also guys, is it really necessary to put spoiler tags on everything when the title has a warning about heavy spoilers. :question:

[Kakizaki]

I considered no spoiler tags, but I thought some people may complain. :/


As for the teasing / flirting, I guess I sort of thought the same way as you, but I have also known a ton of girls in real life that acted in the same manner without necessarily meaning it in a possible love interest way. I kind of thought it was too difficult read Tatsuya's reactions / intentions in relation to Ginko and gage his interest based off of that.

I also played EP first, that may have also played into why it was probably a harder choice for me than it should have been. I guess while I was playing IS, I just rationalized Tatsuya's actions in EP as the result of he and Jun's need to protect Maya -- just as you would a sister or mother.

[Manic Expressive]

I picked Maya because I played Eternal Punishment first. In that game the motherly/big sister feeling is completely non-existent because this is another reality. One without them ever meeting when they were kids, so the old feelings aren't there even if she did remember what happened on the other side. I didn't hate Ginko but I just didn't care much for her either. But I found her jealously pretty hilarious, I got a kick out of her shadow self as well as the other character's.

Yeah the stabbing was just to fulfill the Oracle of Maiya. What I truly don't understand...

Akinari Kashihara wrote In Laquetti, he was married to Junko (Queen Aquarius, Jun's Mother, beautiful idol) whom treated him like ####. What confuses me is that she is a member of the Masquerade whose beliefs are that of In Laquetti, with the Joker on lead with the other members fulfilling the text. You figure she would sort of worship Akinari in a similar matter that Ideal Sensei did so I am pretty stumped on that.

[Kakizaki]

I'm kind of curious as to what equipment and Persona you guys used at the end. I had been attempting to level to see Satan and Lucifer but I got really burnt out. In the end I settled on just being happy to see Vishnu and Shiva - loved those guys in Nocturne. The Aum fusion did a guaranteed 999 no elemental damage to all enemies so I had no trouble whatsoever in the the last dungeon. I also had some pretty crazy equipment at the end. The Hexagram was a pretty damn nice reusable - replenishing 25% HP and SP to a character. The Futsu no Mitama was much more powerful than Tatsuya's legendary weapon and gave significant stat boosts in every area. I also had Tatsuya equipped with Bishamon's armor and the Bodhi Tree Charm.

[Flußkönig]

^ It has been awhile since I beat the game but I don't think I was anywhere close to summoning the highest lvl persona. If I had to guess I would say my I was in the high 60's to low 70's.

I didn't even really feel the need to level all that much since I thought IS was a quite bit easier than EP (except for the final boss). One thing that really stood out in that regard was how much more damage physical attacks did in IS than compared to EP. I killed a few of the endgame bosses in a few turns just using attack skills.

Also, I never figured out how to get to the lower parts of the factory, so there wasn't really anything that would give decent experience if I had wanted to grind.

[Kakizaki]

^Yeah, IS was definitely easier from what I remembered about EP. I didn't grind because I was having a hard time. I just enjoy seeing what new fusions I could get, what hidden spells Personas contained, and what items could be had once they were returned. Even if you had gotten into the bottom portion of the factory, it is hard to level past lvl 80 with how rare Alice encounters are (and with her at level 80, the estma trick no longer works).

I couldn't help it, and I started EP again tonight. Damn button swaps in the U.S. game have me kind of flustered, but I will easily get used to that again. I have only played for an hour but it is already crazy how much more sense everything makes.


I also prefer the negotiating skills / system in IS.

[Flußkönig]

I have only played for an hour but it is already crazy how much more sense everything makes.

I also prefer the negotiating skills / system in IS.

Yeah, it is sort of like playing a whole new game. I started playing EP after I beat IS, but I was pretty burnt out by the time I hit the underwater ruins. Eh, probably a bit before that actually. Some of those rare rumors are a real pain in the ass.

I thought IS had one of the better negotiating systems out of the megaten games I have played. For some reason it just clicked and the negotiation skills and demon responses actually seemed to make sense more times than not.

[DevilRy]

I picked Jun, but the last time I played IS was like five years ago. :frown: Reading all this is making me want to play again.

[Manic Expressive]

The negotiations in EP were easier to nail down, in IS they are more complex and sometimes they switch the answers that make them happy so you fail. Overall I loved IS a lot more than EP, the story is just so much deeper and meaningful to me.

[Iris]

I chose Jun. I think that even Tatsuya does have a crush on Maya, the whole big sister thing still makes it borderline incestuous. As for Lisa, I love her dearly, but I just really don't feel much chemistry between her and Tatsuya at all.

As for my endgame setup...it was. Uh. Pretty lame. I finished in the low sixties for levels, I just used the Greek set, nothing special about my equipment. I was really pushing to see the ending so I didn't take the time to go after sidequests and things -- I'm saving that for my second playthrough.

I think I may also be the oddball here, but I actually preferred Eternal Punishment. They're both wonderful, but I feel like certain aspects of EP just really clicked a lot better with me.

(By "certain aspects" I probably just mean "YAY KATSUYA," but idk.)

[diosisback]

I chose both girls, Tatsu has more than enough love for ´em XD

I couldn´t beat the last boss (he is WAY too cheap and I´m WAY too lazy to start grinding) so I am stuck waiting for someone to upload the ending...

Right now, I am playing EP (for the first time) and enjoying it so far (just beat Shadow Ulala). Any tips ?

[Flußkönig]

I chose both girls, Tatsu has more than enough love for ´em XD

I couldn´t beat the last boss (he is WAY too cheap and I´m WAY too lazy to start grinding) so I am stuck waiting for someone to upload the ending...

Right now, I am playing EP (for the first time) and enjoying it so far (just beat Shadow Ulala). Any tips ?
The very last thing you see in IS is basically the beginning of EP (maya running into Tatsu w/ all the other characters from IS coincidentally showing up) that is alluded to but not show. What happened at the end of IS after the boss battle is explained somewhat near the end of EP, but obviously it has a greater impact if you experience it yourself.

Plus EP doesn't really make total sense unless you know what happened after that fight.

[Manic Expressive]

Hey Kaki, so did you have a hard time with the Longinus 13 fights? The one in Caracol was a nightmare, 4 at one time. It really almost made me toss my PSP out the window.

[Kakizaki]

^Nah, By Caracol I was over-leveled and my pool of available Persona allowed me to have a fusion of almost every element. A few of my Persona had mutated quite a few times and had crazy high stats from parameter ups. In Caracol, my Volcanus Custom was nearly maxed in a few areas.

All I had to do was keep track of which Longinus was weak to which element. During the final time you encounter them, I had the Aum fusion. It did 999 damage guaranteed.

[Manic Expressive]

I haet you. I rushed through the game ridiculously fast and got raped by them. I had to grind probably I think 8 hours in a single sitting and also farm cards to get a certain persona.

[Kakizaki]

lol. I probably grinded too much ;). I was having a good time though and at that particular part of the game, I had some Persona / character combos that must have had particularly good compatibility. I was getting constant mutations.

I think I took out the final group in the final dungeon in three turns.

[Manic Expressive]

This scene makes me :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ccZdNyR9dI

[Hamel]

I just finished the game
after finishing it I went to a FAQ to check what would have happend if I punched Philimon (sp?) and it said that "you will find out who is behind that mask"
I want to know who is behind the mask but I don't feel like doing the boss fight again as I barely made it out alive (underleveled and a lot of items ran out by the time I got to him)

also I picked Ginko as I loved her from the begining of the game up until where you pick her
If I will replay the game I would pick Maya as I wanted to pick her too

[Kakizaki]

^Finally, some more Ginko love. ;)

[Hamel]

But what about what I asked?or did you thank him too?

[Tatsuya]

But what about what I asked?or did you thank him too?

He's tatsuya...kinda

[Kakizaki]

Sorry Hamel, I thanked him.

[BRASSKNUCKLES]

edit - This is your last warning BR. You have been warned about hijacking threads numerous times. Stop. - Kakizaki

[diosisback]

This is a Persona 2:Innocent Sin thread... if you wanna talk about persona 4, you can always go to the P4 sub-forum.

[Hamel]

But what about what I asked?or did you thank him too?

He's tatsuya...kinda

Whoa what
explain

[Tatsuya]

But what about what I asked?or did you thank him too?

He's tatsuya...kinda

Whoa what
explain

Philemon, like nyarlathotep is a being of the collective unconsciousness, as such he really has both no face and millions of faces, like nyarlathotep in persona 2:EP, philemon is the embodiment of the collective unconscious good side i guess, since nyarlathotep embodies the form of evil, this is also why both nyarlathotep and philemon share tatsuya's face in IS and EP.What this means is that philemon has tatsuya's face if you knock the mask off, i/e philemon is a part of everyone, so he has no face outside of the one watching.

[Flußkönig]

But what about what I asked?or did you thank him too?

He's tatsuya...kinda

Whoa what
explain
Philemon just took the appearance of Tatsuya, he doesn't actually have a real identity. Philemon is just like the Crawling Chaos in that the doesn't actually have an identity and his appearance is governed by how he is perceived by others.

I seriously don't know how you guys could actually thank Philemon when he knew what was going on the whole time and didn't really do jack to stop it.

Anyway, maybe it is a figurative was of showing that Tatsuya felt responsible for what happened (especially to Maya) and helps explain his attitude in EP.

[Hamel]

I thanked him because he gave us another chance
and it's not like he could do anything he was just able to watch and guide

[Kakizaki]

I seriously don't know how you guys could actually thank Philemon when he knew what was going on the whole time and didn't really do jack to stop it.I was under the impression that interference from him could have resulted in an even worse or still similar outcome.

I thanked him because he gave us another chance

This too.

[Flußkönig]

I guess I viewed the story a little differently than the two of you. After seeing the ending it seemed as though Philemon and Nyarlathotep were working together.

The two were basically running a social experiment to see if humans were worthy of surviving and Philemon didn't seem all that biased either way. I don't think it was the fact that he couldn't participate, but that he didn't have any reason to beyond supplying what was necessary so that Tatsuya and the others could participate in the game/experiment.

I mean, after all the #### that Nyarlathotep pulls you would have a hard time convincing me that Philemon powers were limited to giving a few kids Persona's and allowing them to use the Velvet Room. Especially when he is able to undue everything that Nyarlathotep had done at the end of the game.

So Tatsuya and friends prove that humanity is worthy and as a reward Philemon waves goodbye and wishes them luck surviving on Xibala for the rest of their lives. Seriously, of course he is going to do something. Especially since he is just as much responsible for what happened as Nyarlathotep.

[Hamel]

Nyarlathotep said that Philemon couldn't do anything but watch

[Flußkönig]

Nyarlathotep said that Philemon couldn't do anything but watch
So you would consider reverting the world to the way it was before everything happened "watching"? That doesn't make sense.

Well like I just stated, I think Nyarlathotep was referring to what Philemon's role in the experiment was, not what Philemon could or couldn't have done.

[Kakizaki]

The two were basically running a social experiment to see if humans were worthy of surviving and Philemon didn't seem all that biased either way. I don't think it was the fact that he couldn't participate, but that he didn't have any reason to beyond supplying what was necessary so that Tatsuya and the others could participate in the game/experiment.

No, I actually did see it this way with a slight twist.

I felt Philemon was working in conjunction with Nyarlathotep, but that doesn't mean Philemon couldn't have eventually viewed the experiment as wrong. Just because Philemon is he embodiment of collective human unconsciousness doesn't make him infallible -- even if he is supposed to represent the 'good side'. Many times we may go into something with good intentions only to realize it wasn't for the best after all. I figured he didn't intervene further because the wheels were already in motion. If Philemon attempted to 'fix' the problems with Jun, who is to say someone else wouldn't have taken his place? Kind of like how Okamura failed to die so she stabbed Maya in an attempt to fulfil the prophecy.

[Hamel]

Nyarlathotep said that Philemon couldn't do anything but watch
So you would consider reverting the world to the way it was before everything happened "watching"? That doesn't make sense.

Well like I just stated, I think Nyarlathotep was referring to what Philemon's role in the experiment was, not what Philemon could or couldn't have done.

He told us about reverting the world but our willpower is the thing that made it hapeend not him
again he was acting as a guide

[Flußkönig]

The two were basically running a social experiment to see if humans were worthy of surviving and Philemon didn't seem all that biased either way. I don't think it was the fact that he couldn't participate, but that he didn't have any reason to beyond supplying what was necessary so that Tatsuya and the others could participate in the game/experiment.

No, I actually did see it this way with a slight twist.

I felt Philemon was working in conjunction with Nyarlathotep, but that doesn't mean Philemon couldn't have eventually viewed the experiment as wrong. Just because Philemon is he embodiment of collective human unconsciousness doesn't make him infallible -- even if he is supposed to represent the 'good side'. Many times we may go into something with good intentions only to realize it wasn't for the best after all. I figured he didn't intervene further because the wheels were already in motion. If Philemon attempted to 'fix' the problems with Jun, who is to say someone else wouldn't have taken his place? Kind of like how Okamura failed to die so she stabbed Maya in an attempt to fulfil the prophecy.

That is an interesting take on the story and I would be just as apt to agree with it as anything else along those general lines except for one little thing.

Honestly I never really felt that morality entered into the equation during the storyline. I thought that Philemon and Nyarlathotep were more geared towards the classic SMT law vs. chaos lines rather than good vs. evil. If Philemon was supposed to be representing the good side of something I totally missed it.

[Flußkönig]

Nyarlathotep said that Philemon couldn't do anything but watch
So you would consider reverting the world to the way it was before everything happened "watching"? That doesn't make sense.

Well like I just stated, I think Nyarlathotep was referring to what Philemon's role in the experiment was, not what Philemon could or couldn't have done.

He told us about reverting the world but our willpower is the thing that made it hapeend not him
again he was acting as a guide
If you take that statement as being literal I guess that kind of makes sense. I figured that he meant that the willpower that Tatsuya and company showed in defeating Nyralathotep was the spark that led Philomen to make the choice to create the new world.

Regardless, it is clear from EP that Philemon used (or is using) most of his strength to create and/or maintain the new reality. I am sort of interested how you would explain that given your whole watch and guide theory.

[Hamel]

I need to replay EP as I started it a few years back but never got to finish it

[Kakizaki]

Honestly I never really felt that morality entered into the equation during the storyline. I thought that Philemon and Nyarlathotep were more geared towards the classic SMT law vs. chaos lines rather than good vs. evil. If Philemon was supposed to be representing the good side of something I totally missed it.

I guess what I felt kind of hinges on what I mentioned about human emotion and its inherent weaknesses -- how those might have effected Philemon if he is the embodiment of the collective human consciousness. I don't think there were any implications by Philemon to fully support the way I ended up feeling.

Maybe I felt the whole second chance thing gave some validity to this.

I would agree with what you are saying about the classic law vs chaos struggle but I felt like complete and utter destruction were stressed more by Nyarlathotep than other chaos aligned antagonists of SMT games -- instead of the usually breaking free of the pattern that the chaos alignment usually seems to stress / provide. Maybe because of that feeling or perception, I just associated Philemon with 'good' because he represented the opposite.

I should have stated that it wasn't an easy or instantaneous decision for me. I had to sit for a second and think about it.

[LadyRayna]

I guess I viewed the story a little differently than the two of you. After seeing the ending it seemed as though Philemon and Nyarlathotep were working together.

The two were basically running a social experiment to see if humans were worthy of surviving and Philemon didn't seem all that biased either way. I don't think it was the fact that he couldn't participate, but that he didn't have any reason to beyond supplying what was necessary so that Tatsuya and the others could participate in the game/experiment.

I mean, after all the #### that Nyarlathotep pulls you would have a hard time convincing me that Philemon powers were limited to giving a few kids Persona's and allowing them to use the Velvet Room. Especially when he is able to undue everything that Nyarlathotep had done at the end of the game.

So Tatsuya and friends prove that humanity is worthy and as a reward Philemon waves goodbye and wishes them luck surviving on Xibala for the rest of their lives. Seriously, of course he is going to do something. Especially since he is just as much responsible for what happened as Nyarlathotep.

Agreed. When I saw the option to punch him I didn’t think twice, and boy, did it feel good.

I don’t believe Philemon cared about the individual, but rather he was more interested in the human race as a whole. After all, the objective of their experiment was to know whether or not humans could evolve into perfect beings. Tatsuya and the others proved it was possible. Therefore Philemon gave them the chance to make a new world. Besides, Nyarlathotep’s power was tremendous in their world so erasing their memories was the only option. Philemon also said that people must change in order to supress Nyarlathotep.

Urgh, am I even making sense here? The more I think about it, the more confusing it seems.

I'm kind of curious as to what equipment and Persona you guys used at the end.

My party was level eighty when I beat the game. Aside from the ultimate personae (Apollo, Artemis, etc.) I’ve also used Isis, Brahma and Michael. I wanted to get Satan and Lucifer, but I had spent so many days in that damn factory grinding and grinding and grinding that I just wanted to hurry up and see the end.

I picked Jun, but the last time I played IS was like five years ago. :frown: Reading all this is making me want to play again.

I chose Jun. I think that even Tatsuya does have a crush on Maya, the whole big sister thing still makes it borderline incestuous. As for Lisa, I love her dearly, but I just really don't feel much chemistry between her and Tatsuya at all.

I <3 you. I thought I was the only one who chose him.

[Manic Expressive]

lol you people must be blind then. :tongue:

[LadyRayna]

^What do you mean?

[Manic Expressive]

@ not seeing Tatsuya and Maya together, but was kidding.

[Iris]

Well, I'm too lazy to go back and quote myself, but I do think Tatsuya obviously has a thing for Maya.

I just...also think that it's emotional incest. XD

[LadyRayna]

@ not seeing Tatsuya and Maya together, but was kidding.

Oh I see lol

[Tom]

"I need a little help understanding something. After Maya was stabbed with the Spear of Destiny, why did her feelings regarding the fear of being forgotten also relate to the Grand Cross / world destruction. Was Nyarlathotep implying that all humans have an innate desire for destruction? I'm just a little confused on that connection."

Hi there. I'm Tom, the guy who translated this game... Hopefully I can explain this part of the game for you.

You're right... Nyarlathotep believes that humans have an innate desire for destruction... When people spread rumors, do they choose to gossip about the positive things in life? Rarely... They focus on the negative, secretly whispering about others in order to feel more secure about themselves.

When Xibalba was raised, the people began to spread rumors about being the "chosen ones" and they talked about how the people below were going to die... The team realizes that it's only going to happen because of the rumors... At one point, they realize that trying to spread the rumor "everything will be okay" will be useless...

Because who would spread such a positive rumor? (It will only become a rumor if people actually spread it around, after all... Merely starting the rumor is not enough.)

People only gossip about the negative things... So people were bringing about their own demise, really... Nyarlathotep believes that this is human nature... Philemon disagrees, and believes that humans have the power to overcome their destructive feelings to achieve a perfect existence...

Philemon wasn't responsible... He did not interfere, because he had faith in humanity. He knew that humanity had to overcome this on their own... That's why he merely acts as a guide... He is not like Nyarlathotep's "partner in crime." It's a shame that many people demonize him.

To punch Philemon is to punch the trust and faith and hope in humanity... That's why when Tatsuya punches him, he discovers that he's only punching himself...

Maya being stabbed by the spear relates to all of this because of Okamura... Okamura is the exact opposite of Maya... She is a selfish woman who is willing to take out another person to fulfill her own desires. (This is what Nyarlathotep believes all people are essentially like.)

Maya then realizes that there's something worse than just being forgotten... It's worse to hold back others... Her last words tell the others to "forget about her..." She didn't want to hold them back... But the kids decide to reset the world instead... (They can't just move on, knowing how much they lost.)

(Big EP Spoiler)
In the end, Tatsuya -doesn't- listen to Maya... Because of his immaturity, he believed that Maya wanted him to "forget" about Maya by sacrificing his past (which he still wasn't willing to do)... Maya really meant that she wanted him to move on with his life, and not be burdened by her loss... By the end of EP, Tatsuya is mature enough to realize this, and goes back to the reality that he left behind...

[Flußkönig]

Honestly I never really felt that morality entered into the equation during the storyline. I thought that Philemon and Nyarlathotep were more geared towards the classic SMT law vs. chaos lines rather than good vs. evil. If Philemon was supposed to be representing the good side of something I totally missed it.

I guess what I felt kind of hinges on what I mentioned about human emotion and its inherent weaknesses -- how those might have effected Philemon if he is the embodiment of the collective human consciousness. I don't think there were any implications by Philemon to fully support the way I ended up feeling.

Maybe I felt the whole second chance thing gave some validity to this.


Yes, I think it could go either way story wise. I had just figured that as the proponent of the winning side it was up to Philemon to set everything right. It would have been pretty ridiculous if humanity proved it was worthy of a second chance, only to die out on Xibala.

I do see what you are getting at though and as I said it makes just as much sense given the story.

[cj iwakura]

Well, I sided with Maya.

For me, Professor Ideal's role in the story confused me the most. She never seemed inherently evil until she lost her mind in the endgame.

I don't understand why she wanted to kill Maya at all.


As for Philemon, I thanked him. He helped as much as he could have.

[Hamel]

I don't understand why she wanted to kill Maya at all.


To make the prophecy come true a Maian (sp?) needs to be sacrficed

[Tom]

Yes, Hamel is correct. The team thought that Professor Ideal would be the sacrifice that would complete the Maiyan Oracle... (That's why they headed in there when she was taken by the Last Battalion... They didn't want her to be killed, because her death would fulfill the oracle.) But she turned the tables on them and killed Maya, instead.

Nyarlathotep believed that this was what humanity really sought... That they sought destruction, bringing down others to pull themselves up... Her betrayal parallels the attitude of most of the people on Xibalba. They felt that they are somehow special and above everybody else, not caring what happens to others.

If you had talked to a lot of the NPCs on Xibalba, you would have seen that they were all discussing how the world will end... Many of them were gossiping about the possible ways that the people down below will die, and how excited they are about being able to evolve into god-like beings.

They were ordinary people who were swept up in feelings of superiority and subconscious desires... Professor Ideal was a weak-willed woman who fell victim to that. Humanity as a whole was dead-set on the idea that the prophecy was going to be fulfilled, so it was bound to happen somehow. I believe Professor Idea's actions display that trend, rather than simply due to her being "evil."

[Pibbman]

Well, I haven't finished the game yet. I went into the final boss at about level 72 for every member, started my attack and stuff, then he went.

"OMG" - was the first thing that came to mind. His first attack took out Tatsuya, Michelle and Ginko in one hit. I nearly fell off my chair, and I was pretty ticked. That same attack took about 25% off of Jun and Maya, however, his attack after that put them either charmed or whatever else there was. So basically I couldn't do a damn thing on my next turn, and got to see the boss use his next turn to finish Jun and Maya off.

My first mistake was having Odin and Brahm or whatever for Tatsuya and Michelle, which I believe has them weak on attacks with void/reflect on magic, which is why I was taken out so fast. I don't know why Ginko went out so fast considering she didnt have a weakness.

I wasn't gonna fight anymore and just watched some youtube on final battle, and then came here. Kakizaki mentioned using Estma while in the dungeon to level up faster, since you'll pretty much only encounter alice until you reach 80, which is a good idea since that should shave a lot of time off. I haven't decided if I'll level up for Satan and Lucifier.

However, after spending 2 hours trying to get that damn rumor for the hidden basement or whatever at Konan, I just gave up. I'll probably try and make sure I got all the notes tomorrow.

Right now, I'm pretty much just tired out by the game. I might just spend an hour or two a day until I get leveled up to that point. Thankfully using the 'reason' trick is helping me out, otherwise I'd never do it.

[chluophobi]

Great Father is no joke, don't you just love eating 5 turns in a row?

[Pibbman]

Great Father is no joke, don't you just love eating 5 turns in a row?

Yeah seriously. I read up a walkthrough on it after that, apparently each body part counts as an attack. Two legs, two arms and his head. That must be some insane headbutting he is doing there.

Not that I'm complaining, I'm used to this kinda thing in japanese games. I've seen bosses have up to 3 turns in the past, but never 5. However, you could argue from the boss standpoint that 5 against one isn't fair. :P lol.

[Iris]

Well technically...it's not five against one, it's five against five.

That said: Maha-Samakaja is your best friend in this battle. I finished at...I think level 62? First trip in I got my ass kicked, but on my second run, I put up the buffs and the difference was incredible.

[Pibbman]

Even with Estma it's rare to encounter alice in the waste treatment area. Takes like 10 minutes each time. One time she contacted me, and I realized her personality was much like Pixie, I kinda felt bad that I was hunting the little girl down. :X No not really, I wanted the EXP.

I looked up her item and its Bohdi Tree Charm or whatever, anyone know what the item does and if its worth the grab?

Anyways, I got my team up to lvl 75 now, got quite a ways to go. Strangely the Reason double EXP trick doesnt work here. Its been working for me the past 20 hours, but when it comes to that area the first time it will work, after that it won't. <.>

UPDATE:

Finally beat the final boss on my second playthrough. Funny enough, it was hitler that gave me a few issues, but the final boss was easier this time. I gave Tatsu the persona Apollo, and his gigan fist helped a lot, I wasnt leveled up high enough for his stronger attacks though. My prize Persona in the battle was Varuna. Seriously, load him up with Michelle, and he easily does 500+ dmg to each part of the final boss.

I finished at level 76 with them. Terrific game and I can't wait to start Eternal punishment. However, I wont start that until later since I got other games to play first, maybe after Devil Summoner 2 I will. Thank god I finished the game, otherwise it would of annoyed the hell out of me for not completing it.

[Zenieth]

A random thing I always thought about after seeing the protag of P3 and seeing jun I always wondered Did any one feel that the main protag looked a lot like him and could of quite possibly been that jun looking kid you meet outside of the shrine who you teach master persona to?