Atlus too Dark?

[Pibbman]

I'm on -- I lost count how many -- a bunch of different forums, so I usually see a lot of opinions of different people. One thing I have noticed is when the topic of Atlus comes up, there is usually something about Atlus games (more specifically the SMT games and it's spin offs) are too dark being mentioned.

the following quote is an example of something I come across from time to time.


I had a hard time enjoying the Persona series. The theme is pretty dark...


Honestly, I don't see where the "darkness" is coming from, really the only thing "dark" about it, is probably the whole demons/deities thing, and depending on the game issues involving death/murder/etc.

Now, it really got me thinking. Atlus, in my opinion, seems to have this part of the market almost covered entirely. What I mean is, when I try to think of another publisher that does games like these, I can only think of 1-2 other publishers but they usually don't do it to the same extent.

You guys think Atlus is too dark? I'm personally a pretty average guy, I like it when good things happen, making people laugh, etc. So on the outside it doesn't seem like this would be a kind of game I play, but at the same time it's not like I dress up all in black and worship satan/witchcraft or anything.

I guess my main appeal is that it actually focuses on issues you don't commonly see often in games. Yes obviously Atlus does numerous other games, and the sorts but it's just an interesting thought and whatnot that I've come across.


You guys fan of dark games? You just like it for the story and gameplay?

[AdrianMorales]

Sometimes yes I do think that Atlus games are a bit on the dark side. And I'm not just talking about the colour settings either:) But everything is balanced out thanks to the inclusion of comic reliefs. RPGs in general talk about the destruction of the world and of course it can get a bit depressing. But the characters always seem to find a silver lining.
Same thing in the real world after all:)

[ivan_the_one]

it might seem dark at times but in the end everyone lives happily ever after for the most part. also I believe they are trying to emphizine the seriousness of the situation. It's kinda hard to make people feel that that they are in danger when everything around them is pink and there's rainbows all over the place.

[DamageCity]

If anything ATLUS isn't dark enough anymore, or at least, never really was. I like dark games, that's why I got into SMT and I really enjoyed Rule of Rose and I was pretty damn happy when they announced it. Other than those, ATLUS games are way on the bright side of life. I think the amount of games ATLUS publishes, apart from SMT, are 90% too light. I'm sure when you become an adlut you'll understand.

I am looking forward to the Dark Spire.

[slayn]

I've heard the Dark Spire is amazingly well-lit.

[DamageCity]

I've heard the Dark Spire is amazingly well-lit.


GODDAMNIT

[James Fiend]

I'm sure when you become an adlut you'll understand.

Some Adluts don't necessarily like games that are really dark. I was probably into darker themes through adolescence more than I am now. I'll never forget when Mortal Kombat first came out.

[Kakizaki]

I had a hard time enjoying the Persona series. The theme is pretty dark...

lol.....ugh....

If anything ATLUS isn't dark enough anymore, or at least, never really was. I like dark games, that's why I got into SMT and I really enjoyed Rule of Rose and I was pretty damn happy when they announced it. Other than those, ATLUS games are way on the bright side of life. I think the amount of games ATLUS publishes, apart from SMT, are 90% too light.

Agreed.

Some Adluts don't necessarily like games that are really dark. I was probably into darker themes through adolescence more than I am now. I

True, but that is why it is nice there are other publishers. People can choose from other companies instead of a publisher having to change. That way, everyone is satisfied -- including the adults who still enjoy darker themed titles.

On a side note, I never felt MK was dark -- even when I was younger. The garish colors, over the top moves, and gore were pretty comedic to me.

[James Fiend]

On a side note, I never felt MK was dark -- even when I was younger. The garish colors, over the top moves, and gore were pretty comedic to me.
I was too young to know the difference between dark and camp, I guess. I didn't really get the zany kung-fu chop socky homages.

As for the various publishers and options, I agree. I think it's a good time to be a video game fan. I just don't necessarily equate age with thematic preference. My girlfriend will probably never appreciate the themes and style of Nocturne no matter how old she gets (for example).

[Pibbman]

If anything ATLUS isn't dark enough anymore, or at least, never really was. I like dark games, that's why I got into SMT and I really enjoyed Rule of Rose and I was pretty damn happy when they announced it. Other than those, ATLUS games are way on the bright side of life. I think the amount of games ATLUS publishes, apart from SMT, are 90% too light. I'm sure when you become an adlut you'll understand.

I am looking forward to the Dark Spire.

haha I'm 22, what is there to understand lol? Like I said, Atlus definitely has games other than the "Dark" side of things, which can be seen on forum list outside of the "SMT" section. I would say that SMT is dark theme, and by no way am I saying it's a bad thing. I can't think of many publishers that would go the route these games are going, if anything I'm praising them for doing it.

ivan_the_one makes a great point, you can't always feel the seriousness of something when you're running around in a place where there is rainbows, flowers, etc. That generally makes those "save the world" type games a bit unrealistic, it's not like we're saving it from the teletubbies....maybe we should.

Personally I can see how many others can see how the SMT series is "Dark" though.

[Manly Biceps]

I was too young to know the difference between dark and camp, I guess. I didn't really get the zany kung-fu chop socky homages.

It's not really "homages" it's just one big homage, and it's a homage of an homage.

The MK designers have said that they basically made MK to be a fighting game version of Big Trouble in Little China.

[Iris]

I'm also on the "not dark enough anymore" side of things. Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, and Persona 2 are some of my favorite games ever, which...probably says something about me.

I like apocalypses.

[Balrog]

Atlus: None Blacker

[slayn]

If your games aren't dark enough, there's usually am option to adjust the gamma setting...

[Olethros]

^^ Best slogan, EVAR!

Atlus: put that in the mailers IMMEDIATELY! ...and have them signed by White Rob.

EDIT: Damn you and your speed, Slayn!

[slayn]

Olethros loves my nuts confirmed.

[Vincent Alexander]

I can't wait for Atlus to make dark games again. I'm amazed Atlus still has that reputation at some forums.

[Pibbman]

I can't wait for Atlus to make dark games again. I'm amazed Atlus still has that reputation at some forums.

I've yet to play one of the actual SMT games, I'm still looking for Nocturne at a good deal. Someone posted a site that has it for 24.95 but it's currently out of stock at the moment, and apparently it gets restocked from time to time.

I hope the next SMT shows up on PS3, from what I know, Atlus hasn't done a SINGLE PS3 game yet, it's the only system that hasn't gotten any Atlus love yet. That makes me a SAD PANDA.

[Vincent Alexander]

No point in putting it on PS3---they'll probably use the same graphics still. And definitely pick up Nocturne when you can. Last I checked, it seems to be in stock almost everywhere. Where are you trying to buy it from?

[Kaibigan]

I hope for the return of good dark games.

[Olethros]

^ As do I. Emphasis on the word good.

[dragonlife29]

Huh...I guess some people aren't as experienced with "dark" stuff [in other mediums] if they think some Atlus games are dark.

Obviously I can see what they mean, but...I don't think so...not really.

[Pibbman]

No point in putting it on PS3---they'll probably use the same graphics still. And definitely pick up Nocturne when you can. Last I checked, it seems to be in stock almost everywhere. Where are you trying to buy it from?

Even if its still the same level of graphics, but the ability to do DLC and continually add onto it, would be pretty awesome. I'm not saying they should release a half done game, and add DLC to milk the game even more, but to genuinely add to it.

I'm mostly trying to find Nocturne under 30, I see it on Amazon for like 45-50 bucks, which is more than I can afford at the moment. I remember seeing it at a gameshop around here, but I think its gone by now. I might check again though.

[Manic Expressive]

I think it's worth it's original price, but seeing it at $25 normally would be more awesome for people who just want to give it a try.

[James Fiend]

I was too young to know the difference between dark and camp, I guess. I didn't really get the zany kung-fu chop socky homages.

It's not really "homages" it's just one big homage, and it's a homage of an homage.

The MK designers have said that they basically made MK to be a fighting game version of Big Trouble in Little China.

More like Manly Semantics!

[tokoshi_x]

I never really considered Atlus games to be "dark." Well with the talk of demons and the world ending in some SMT games, I suppose it would make one think that way. It does bring up some interesting stories though, and it does make me think a bit after going through it all. But thats just one reason why I like Atlus's games, not for the dark atmosphere that some games bring out, but for how unique those types of games are.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Nocturne wasn't dark enough for me. SMT needs to get some Silent Hill #### going on.

[DamageCity]

For curiosity sake, what exactly would you like to see from Silent Hill incorporated into Nocturne?

[Pibbman]

Nocturne wasn't dark enough for me. SMT needs to get some Silent Hill #### going on.

that'd just make it horror then.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'm not being serious guys.

[DamageCity]

You should learn how to be funny then.

[Fuyukaze]

A bit on the dark side, even a bit on the morbid, but I'd never consider Atlus titles to be that overtly dark. Maybe if they released a game simular to the anime Saikano or such where everyone dies at the end and hope continues to gradualy die as you progress thru the game but untill then, it's only dark if your into kid friendly stuff.

[jeffx]

Speaking of Rule of Rose / "dark" games, have you guys tried Agetec's Kuon? (dev'd by From Software) It's pretty wild, also sorta rare.

[DamageCity]

I bought it for $10 off ebay and beat it in one sitting.

[erwos]

The thing with the Persona titles being "dark" is that they often discuss some very heavy subject matter in a way that often strikes home in a personal way. The decision that leads to the bad ending in P3 (and the ending itself!), for instance, is not exactly the stuff that smiles and lolly-pops are made of. Ditto for Persona 4's first bad ending. You don't need to commit egregious in-game human rights violations for a game to be dark, especially when it comes to theme.

OTOH, what the Persona games do _right_ is to contrast those segments with slightly more upbeat parts - the S-Links. A fair few of those can be deadly serious, too, but they do relieve what could be a depressing experience otherwise.

If you think the Persona games are too cheery, go hunt down a copy of Nocturne, or even the Digital Devil Saga games. I finally finished DDS1 last week and got a few hours into DDS2... let's just say that "light-hearted" is not how would I describe those two games.

[Superkenon]

For me, games like Persona are "just right." A good balance between serious subjects and just good ol' fashioned fun. At times, things look wrought with despair, but you typically end up with a happy ending.

Atlus games (the obvious ones in question, anyway) are definitely "darker" than many others... and especially the kinds of titles you see from Nintendo. But I don't consider Atlus games dark, so much as... realistic? That is, they tend to touch on real issues moreso than others do, and delve into the sometimes twisted inner-workings of the human mind. This isn't necessarily what I would call dark, but it's surely heavy when weighed against your average hero fighting for justice against the evil demon lord.

[slayn]

Hey guys I got this thread a present. :idea: :grouphug: :idea:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314FSVC9w%2BL._SS500_.jpg

[Camanche]

My World, My Way. Oh yeah.

[Olethros]

^ LOL. Case closed by Cammy.

[Superkenon]

Doesn't get darker than that.

[Pibbman]

Hey guys I got this thread a present. :idea: :grouphug: :idea:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314FSVC9w%2BL._SS500_.jpg

That's great, I was thinking the thread was becoming a bit too dark, but you brightened it right up! :D

[Kenji]

Yes, My World, My Way is definitely a highly-cynical take on the culture of bourgeoisie teenage girls, and justification for the Revolution. :D And that's why I'll buy it.

Seriously, though, I never thought Atlus games as excessively dark at any time, but the mood's dark enough to feel decently analogous to the real world. There's always been a consistent balance between humor and seriousness that works out, and being such a hard balance to maintain, I'll have to give Atlus props for keeping it up. Horrible things happen and they have a tendency to color the rest of the scenario (definitely a good thing), but they also know when to pull out and have a chuckle to break the tension and - in good dramatic tradition - prepare you for the next horrible thing that'll happen.

The only way you'll hear me talk about Atlus games being "too dark," is if some title in the future features such things as "the heroine was raped brutally by twenty-five demons, then eviscerated and left hanging off a lamppost," or some such Overfiend-esque brutalities. Don't see that happening anytime soon. :tongue:

[Vincent Alexander]

Their games are dark enough for me, at least the earlier ones were, but talking about something dark and/or depressing isn't enough to make it dark and/or depressing. Again, not saying Atlus games aren't either of those things. What I'm saying is I'd love an SMT game that leaves me suicidal at the end. Perhaps that is too much though?

[Olethros]

Vince, you're pretty close to suicidal already. Are you looking for that final push over the line? :p

[Vincent Alexander]

I'm just sad the Bears didn't make it to the playoffs. I'll get over it in about 7 months when the next season hits.

[Kakizaki]

^Just hope when next season starts, you have a real QB. ;)

Although we probably need one too. Still I enjoyed watching us pick the hell out of Orton in early December. :P

Can't wait to see Allen eat him alive next season.

[septembervirgin]

I do not think Atlus games are sufficiently dark. They may have serious and adult motifs, but are largely bright, cheery, and almost cartoonish at times. This causes a stumbling block for me.

I hoped P4 was going to be filled with mist and shadows, stone roads and stone buildings, skeletal trees, gray and black flowers. Instead, it's a lollipop dance with a bit of fog here and there.

Atlus has done Heavy Metal themes but has never approached a game that has Gothic themes, properly speaking. I'd love to see one. A mix of Victorian and Buto, a wash of shadows along a waterfall in moon halo, a fleet of paper boats with kanji inscribed thereupon.

Goth Rock differs from Heavy Metal.

[James Fiend]

I'm hoping they start doing some smooth jazz games. I also haven't seen nearly enough 80s new wave or 82 UK oi! games.

[Sepherest]

Eh, it's not really that they're "dark" to me, I just enjoy their style.
Not just the normal pointy-haired guy in a fantasy adventure, y'know?
I especially loved the design used in Digital Devil Saga.

[Rikuo]

In my own opinion, i don't consider them too dark, just more realistic in the whole consequence thing. I a person gets cut with a sword they are going to bleed. Atlus style is just different from most others. Giving it a bit of a dark feel.
I could probably explain that better but ehh...

[Zephyr_Fate]

There is nothing bright or cheery about Nocturne. Ever. And I'm currently playing it right now.

[septembervirgin]

There is nothing bright or cheery about Nocturne. Ever. And I'm currently playing it right now.

Nocturne is not too dark either. However, it's sort of overt in its approach. I'd love to see the sequels done with more intentional beauty amid the wash of blood. Then again, that might contradict focal thematic elements and favorite approach of game designers there.

I wish Atlus games appeared with greater speed where there was demand.

[Kenji]

I wish Atlus games appeared with greater speed where there was demand.
Atlus just finished a high-speed, high-quality P4 localization... and you want them to work faster? :surprise:

[Vincent Alexander]

I wish Atlus games appeared with greater speed where there was demand.
Atlus just finished a high-speed, high-quality P4 localization... and you want them to work faster? :surprise:
It'll be fun. We'll play, "Find the Most Typos" for their next release and email them with every single one, then demand they work even harder. After, we start docking their pay.

[jeffx]

I wish Atlus games appeared with greater speed where there was demand.
Atlus just finished a high-speed, high-quality P4 localization... and you want them to work faster? :surprise:

And Inzaghi said _I_ was plushy!!!

[Azriel Crusnik]

I like Game's with dark themes, I feel like the creator's get what is truly real. "Don't think the world is happy, just because it look's like it" or something like that.

[raum215]

Lux in tenebris est prepositi tenax. "Light in the darkness is firm of purpose."

This is the sort of Dark and Light that is present in the SMT Games, and other occult-based games in a similar vein. I don't see them as dark, I see Darkness in them, but it is a Darkness with such integrity that Light must bring its A-game to stand a chance. In the Persona games, you are pretty much harbingers of the Light. In SMT, that option is in some way your choice; however just because you choose to side with The Light doesn't mean you are going to be "Good".

Light and Darkness are BOTH forces of contention in Qabala (it's a casino). Neither IS the harmony that reconciles both. That is something that SMT seems to get right that other RPGs kinda display a bias toward Light. That bias toward Light is represented in the SMT world as the Persona series, where () in a struggle against () exercises the myriad specimens of humanity against each other in much the way two brothers may name two chickens "Hope" and "Fear" and toss them in an arena, and see which pecks the other to death.

Neither really *cares* who wins, cause they both get chicken for supper... but they both would prefer their chicken wins, if only to prove a point. So they tip scales, (perhaps one more than the other.)

[Vincent Alexander]

Lux in tenebris est prepositi tenax. "Light in the darkness is firm of purpose."

This is the sort of Dark and Light that is present in the SMT Games, and other occult-based games in a similar vein. I don't see them as dark, I see Darkness in them, but it is a Darkness with such integrity that Light must bring its A-game to stand a chance. In the Persona games, you are pretty much harbingers of the Light. In SMT, that option is in some way your choice; however just because you choose to side with The Light doesn't mean you are going to be "Good".

Light and Darkness are BOTH forces of contention in Qabala (it's a casino). Neither IS the harmony that reconciles both. That is something that SMT seems to get right that other RPGs kinda display a bias toward Light. That bias toward Light is represented in the SMT world as the Persona series, where () in a struggle against () exercises the myriad specimens of humanity against each other in much the way two brothers may name two chickens "Hope" and "Fear" and toss them in an arena, and see which pecks the other to death.

Neither really *cares* who wins, cause they both get chicken for supper... but they both would prefer their chicken wins, if only to prove a point. So they tip scales, (perhaps one more than the other.)
...right on...?

[Pibbman]

Lux in tenebris est prepositi tenax. "Light in the darkness is firm of purpose."

This is the sort of Dark and Light that is present in the SMT Games, and other occult-based games in a similar vein. I don't see them as dark, I see Darkness in them, but it is a Darkness with such integrity that Light must bring its A-game to stand a chance. In the Persona games, you are pretty much harbingers of the Light. In SMT, that option is in some way your choice; however just because you choose to side with The Light doesn't mean you are going to be "Good".

Light and Darkness are BOTH forces of contention in Qabala (it's a casino). Neither IS the harmony that reconciles both. That is something that SMT seems to get right that other RPGs kinda display a bias toward Light. That bias toward Light is represented in the SMT world as the Persona series, where () in a struggle against () exercises the myriad specimens of humanity against each other in much the way two brothers may name two chickens "Hope" and "Fear" and toss them in an arena, and see which pecks the other to death.

Neither really *cares* who wins, cause they both get chicken for supper... but they both would prefer their chicken wins, if only to prove a point. So they tip scales, (perhaps one more than the other.)

So in a nutshell... :seesaw: lol?

[raum215]

Pibbman, my good man. you just proved that heiroglyphics ARE more efficient than words. heh

[raum215]

I'm hoping they start doing some smooth jazz games. I also haven't seen nearly enough 80s new wave or 82 UK oi! games.

Nice one!

I personally feel ATLUS should make a game about Bluegrass. Cobbled stones writhing in long treacherous moonlight paths hinting at their eloquent mysteries as though the paths lead to some dark garden paradise,.. but in reality full of deranged redneck cults inbreeding their demonic spawn and raising them on Johnny Paycheck, fermented corn, and devil spit.

Cause, you know, it is so contemporary Japanese... ;)

[Zephyr_Fate]

There is nothing bright or cheery about Nocturne. Ever. And I'm currently playing it right now.

Nocturne is not too dark either. However, it's sort of overt in its approach. I'd love to see the sequels done with more intentional beauty amid the wash of blood. Then again, that might contradict focal thematic elements and favorite approach of game designers there.

I wish Atlus games appeared with greater speed where there was demand.
The world has ended. Demons are everywhere. People are being consumed and controlled by evil deities.

How is Nocturne "not dark"? There's also blood everywhere, and the Labyrinth of Amala is nothing but crimson everywhere.

[SlaughterX]

Racist

[Eddie Van Helsing]

You guys fan of dark games? You just like it for the story and gameplay?

As far as I know, there are only two outfits that do dark games: Atlus and Nippon Ichi. Atlus does dark serious. Nippon Ichi does dark comedy (Disgaea, of course, is the Spaceballs of tactical RPGs). If Atlus lightens up, and (Lucifer forbid!) ditches Shin Megami Tensei, then I'm going to be very unhappy.

In the meantime, I'll be watching Amazon.com for the opportunity to preorder Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon. Gimme gimme gimme!

[Tatsuya]

To be honest i think the games are dark enough, especially if you go back to shin megami tensei 1&2, so i hope they keep it in this level of maturity.

Keep in mind the only way they could go much darker is if the main characters were basically tortured, killed horribly or otherwise harmed in some way in some of these games, which i definitely don't want to see, i don't even think the title megaten could get me to buy a game that was THAT dark.

kinda spoiler:It definitely got me to stay away from the anime's.

About SMT1&2:the way the heroine and some of the other characters died in 1 was done right, most of them died for their own reasons, their death was by their own actions or choices, same with 2.

[Kenji]

About SMT1&2:the way the heroine and some of the other characters died in 1 was done right, most of them died for their own reasons, their death was by their own actions or choices, same with 2.
Good point, I hadn't really thought about it before.

The original novel (to my understanding) and the OVAs tend to use a lot of victimhood, which always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The games, meanwhile, emphasize the personal choices of the character. Not only does this make for a superior character, but it makes it not seem like snuff in the process (where the OVAs and that Kahn manga fail)

[Shadro]

I personally like the darker tone the SMT games have taken. I mean I think its one of its selling points, and do we really need another Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest like series. I mean with anything dark or mature its going to get some flack from something or another, I suppose it could be because video games are not up to what movies are and cannot really get away with it yet. Though I think its mostly the US and complaining about everything. I mean its not like I like everything dark, it has to be done tasteful I suppose is the word I'm looking for. Not many RPGs really do a dark tone, it seems and its great to see something new; most other RPGs are all fantasy based and just save the world or something of the sort. The only other RPG series I think that had a dark mature theme was the original Phantsy Star series (so 1-4).

[LoligodKamina]

Atlus is not dark, if anything its to kiddy.

[grgspunk]

To me, it seems like Atlus has a pretty balanced mix in terms of humorous/lighthearted titles and dark/serious titles, so I wouldn't say that they're too dark. If anything, my only complaint is that they rely too much on games with super-deformed characters for their humorous/lighthearted lineup, but it isn't that big of a deal.

[Saetsu]

I'm skipping over all the posts in the thread simply out of laziness, but here's my take on this.

Frankly, the Shin Megami Tensei series, and all sub-series, are darker than a majority of other games, but, at the same time, it's really just a bit more serious than others. To me, I love the series because they do not have some sort of "All right, guys! Let's go save the world and be rewarded though we don't intend to!" but a single few people, or only one depending on which installment, working in the shadows. The stories are wonderful in that they are much more serious, to the point, and rarely some long, drawn out, and overly boring process.

I may being going back a bit too far for some of you, but Shin Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei II's Law and Chaos systems were fairly entertaining in and of themselves due to the fact that they not only affected which demons would side with you, but, in the end, even your ending- whether it be for good or ill (see Nocturne, for example). The entire basis of the storyline falling back on theology and mythology, though, is one reason that the Law and Chaos alignments came into play in the first two, and, not only that, but one reason that the overall plot takes a somewhat darker turn.

(Before I go off on a tangent. . .)

The series is, of course, extremely entertaining as far as gameplay is concerned, as well. In fact, the SMT series is my favorite game series overall, so I would think that that says something.



As for the other Atlus games, not many of them are necessarily "dark". The darkest non-SMT title from Atlus I've played. . . was probably Baroque, and it was not necessarily dark, really- it was rated Teen, for one.

[7thEvening]

I think there is a certain level of melancholy (which was balanced by comic relief) that pervades P4 and P3, but I don't know if that's "dark". It's pretty light-hearted compared to Persona, Innocent Sin or Eternal Punishment. Or even Devil Summoner on the Saturn, or SMT or even farther back Megami Tensei for the Famicon. But I read that original novels that Megami Tensei was inspired by and it's pretty much gratuitous sex and violence and rape.

I thought that as a whole, P4 was a darker/more mature/whatever game, but it's still no Innocent Sin. I guess if you compare SMT games to other rpgs, SMT seems "super hardcore". Final Fantasy has been super-fluff bubblegum since it moved into 3D, Dragon Quest usually has shallow plot-construction that requires minimal thought to play. Ar Tonelico is super sugary sweet with it's "Even the final boss should be happy" mentality. The only "dark" RPGs I can think off off the top of my head for the PS2 generation are SMT games and Okage. I can see how Atlus can be associated with dark games.

Then again, My World My Way; Tokyo Beatdown; Ys; Dokapon Kingdom; Steel Princess.... I've always thought of Atlus as the company that risks translating games that no one else has the balls to publish. If anything, I'd associate Atlus with niche titles above anything else.


And....my apologies for the MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT.

[X-Grunger]

its good to play something that its not a fairy tale sometimes

[rodog818]

True. The Trauma Center games have a realistic difficulty, but with realistic themes and dialogue. Anyone who cannot survive an Atlus game may have trouble grasping the real world itself. Atlus makes games that are truly "mature." Mature games are niche because most top selling games are childish, but there is nothing wrong with that.

People who don't like Atlus games are most likely people who probably don't have a very good outlook on life, don't care for dialogue, don't care for realism, don't care for anime artstyles, or don't care challenge.

The same can be said for many other games in the genre but Atlus games are probably the closest to reality out of other JRPG's. I would say they are comparable to the KOTOR series in some respects including who they are targeting.

[Kakizaki]

People who don't like Atlus games are most likely people who probably don't have a very good outlook on life

That's a pretty large assumption.

[slayn]

^Pretty stupid one, too.

[CanadaAndIsrael4Life]

I love that Atlus knows how to make rpgs for more of a mature audience.

[TTBadguy]

I dunno if I would say that Atlus games are "too dark" because that's really just one meta-series of games that people refer to. I guess that's what happens when one product from a company stands out more than the others. Also, I tend to love alot of the campy stuff that they end up publishing and developing as much as the mature-themed SMT games that are released.

[Ice Prince]

I for one have always enjoyed SMT's dark themes. Not everything can obviously be rosey and peachy all the time, and it's nice that they take a different spin on different themes that revolve around a darker side of story.

For some it may not be for them--that does happen sometimes. If you don't like darker, more mature themes, then don't play. That simple.

[Fuyukaze]

People who don't like Atlus games are most likely people who probably don't have a very good outlook on life, don't care for dialogue, don't care for realism, don't care for anime artstyles, or don't care challenge.
I actualy have a horrible outlook on life yet love Atlus games. Funny no?

[Damien]

I own Nocturne, P3 and P4.

To me all that these game have "dark" are their themes and some styles. I don't really see them as something morbid. Nocturne to me is the darkest but that's only because it doesn't have the same comic relief as the persona series (if you think about it the style of the atmosphere and the world is run by demons are the only darkish things). P3 has very dark themes which re really hidden under the woodwork after you get around playing it (ex. shoot your head, water turns to blood at midnight, the whole monster feeds on your soul at night deal) after a while you just get used to it as all this blends into the captivating story. P4 only seems to have the murder deal as the only darkish thing I notice which really no biggie.

To me Atlus games have been toning down over the years in terms of dark themes, however this by no means makes them better or worse for me. All of these games have their own unique styles that make them ever so captivating and great. Although the new Persona series does seem to be progressively opening it's doors to a much broader audience because of the toning down.

[Vincent Alexander]

To me Atlus games have been toning down over the years in terms of dark themes...
Couldn't agree more. I don't think they've forgotten how to be dark though. They are just storing up all of their hate and anger for an amazing return to form. This is why I PM the mods all the time with nasty threats and insults, ya know, to help. (I'm picturing the underground slime river in Ghostbusters 2 now---you all know your films, yeah?)

[Delition]

I'd like to see another "dark" title come out in the SMT universe. Persona 3 & 4, although fun, didn't feel serious most of the time.

-"Someone's going around killing people! What should we do?"
-"Let's go camping!"
-"'Kay."

Both Persona 3 and 4 felt that way for a majority of the game, even during the serious parts.

[Vincent Alexander]

I'd like to see another "dark" title come out in the SMT universe. Persona 3 & 4, although fun, didn't feel serious most of the time.

-"Someone's going around killing people! What should we do?"
-"Let's go camping!"
-"'Kay."

Both Persona 3 and 4 felt that way for a majority of the game, even during the serious parts.
lol. Win.

[Damien]

Both Persona 3 and 4 felt that way for a majority of the game, even during the serious parts.

P4 did in some ways, but I still felt wrapped up in P3. I seem to remember a sense of dread that crept over me in the latter months. Often I had a sense of suspense of what events would follow and a fear of how the big endgame would turn out. I really lived up this title.

Couldn't agree more. I don't think they've forgotten how to be dark though. They are just storing up all of their hate and anger for an amazing return to form. This is why I PM the mods all the time with nasty threats and insults, ya know, to help. (I'm picturing the underground slime river in Ghostbusters 2 now---you all know your films, yeah?)

LOL!

[matmanx1]

The SMT games tend to be "dark" thematically but they can still certainly have their light and funny moments. That broad range of emotions makes for good drama and gives the story some weight. I like that.

[dantemustdie00]

Snowboard Kids DS
I remember the good'ol days on the N64 playing snowboard kids 1 & 2. Now if you notice the characters Nancy and Tommy, both were nice characters. Nancy was a sweet, caring girl, Tommy was a lovable chubby oaf. Now the DS game which I finally find and play and I was shocked! Nancy and Tommy changed! Nancy turn from sweet to bitter, almost like Linda but more violent. Tommy went form a gentle giant to a harsh bully who picks on the weak. Slash and Jam remain unchanged in terms of their personalities, but the game all together was a little more darker than I expected

[Delition]

And curse that Jack Bros. game, taking place on Halloween. Halloween, of all times! The most unholy of unholy dates!

Nothing darker than Jack Bros., Atlus. I have reached my dark limits.

[MileyWinters]

Quite the Contrary. JRPGs are known for their colour- and joyful overtunes, the bright colours and a whole lot of crazy. ATLUS actually took that stereotypical genre and turned it into something very different. I don't think anyone wouldbe able to say something like "JRPGs are overcoloured crap." because any ATLUS-Fan could come and shove any game of theirs into their faces and say "Told ya, douche."

[BGFUSAB]

I think a lot of the assessment that Atlus games are dark is probably closely related to the SMT series and particularly Persona and results due to the way it is compared to other RPGs. As someone pointed out these games are not dark when compared to literature like Othello or Heart of Darkness or movies like... I dunno Silence of the Lambs (maybe not the best example). However when you compare these games to other RPGs they can seem comparatively dark.

First of all, a lot of SMT games are set in worlds we can easily related to, such as a modern day or 20th century city. This setting heightens our ability to identify with material as compared to the fantastic worlds of a FF game, or a space opera like Xenosaga. Secondly the plots tend to be... well slightly more plausible. So many games go straight for the world destruction angle (majority of FF titles), or the overly convoluted political plot world domination angle. I'm not suggesting that a would within a TV is a realistic idea, but the antagonist's scope is scaled back and more readily identifiable. Rather than the megalomaniac that wants to dominate the world we have a disaffected emotionally stressed guy that personon a killing spree, this villain is more REAL, its something that we can recognize as actually happening in our world. Persona's 2 and 4 both dealt with serial killers, something I think that rings more real to most people. This heightens the sense that the game is dark because we recognize that villains like this do exist in our world today.

***Stop reading for any potential half spoiler type things.

Persona 4 dealt with the idea of an outcast student possibly killing one of his peers. If this doesn't ring true to you then you aren't watching the news and haven't watched it for the past 10 years. Stuff like that HAPPENS. What doesn't happen is a long haired pretty boy genetically engineered from an alien has some serious mommy issues and decides to summon a meteor to destroy the world.

So in that sense, some Atlus games could seem dark but honestly... I think Fallout 3 was darker than the Persona games and it seems to be pretty darn popular. We may not be able to identify with an apocalyptic wasteland but the game deals with some pretty hefty issues including and provided at least one view of what a true Hobbsian world would look like.

[Vincent Alexander]

What doesn't happen is a long haired pretty boy genetically engineered from an alien has some serious mommy issues and decides to summon a meteor to destroy the world.
Thank you for pointing out that a long-haired pretty boy genetically engineered from an alien, hell-bent on destroying the world, isn't plausible. I've been hiding under my bed ever since FF7, awaiting my destruction by Sephiroth's hands. Shwoo...What a moron I was.

[dungeon_man]

I finally took the time to read this thread. My response is going to pretend the topic is "Shin Megami Tensei too dark?" because the rest of what Atlus does isn't dark.

I think Shin Megami Tensei needed to be dark to differentiate it from all of the other 16-bit RPGs out there. Dark and occult modern-world cyberpunk-ish was a far cry from the typical medieval fantasy settings of other RPGs. So, when attempting to be different, I don't think "too dark" was much of a concern. They were probably more worried about not being dark enough to get noticed.

Having established a fan base, I think some marketing guys eventually said, "hey, let's lighten it up a bit to attract more people. The existing fans will grumble a bit, but they'll keep buying if we throw them a bone every few games." Fortunately, Atlus never compromised the core series, but instead created spinoffs to try attracting different audiences.

This brings us to games like Persona 3. It's relatively dark, but I thought it's main theme was to let the player experience the joy of life and the pain of death. They accomplished this with much more conviction than Tellah shouting "Meteo!" on Final Fantasy IV. I think P3's grounding in a real-world-ish setting with strong writing and relatable scenarios, not darkness, is what made it work.

Nocturne, once you dig past the superficial outer layer of story, was focused on personal philosophy and moral dilemmas. Factions fighting for their flawed ideals can make a person step back and look at the world a bit differently. Most of the darkness in the game comes not from the things that happen but from being presented with scenarios that have no perfect outcome and having to make a choice anyways. It's a lot like real life in that regard.

Anyway, I don't think the games are too dark. I think the thinly-veiled realism is too much for some people to handle and too deep for others to grasp.

[System_Error]

Not Dark enough. Needs more black characters IMHO.

[Neveryll]

Shrug. I have never had a problem with any of the Atlus games I play being too dark.

And dark is such a vague way to put it?

Is "dark" telling it like it is in all its detail and horror without hiding any of it from the viewer dark? Is "dark" putting the player in a situation that is uncomfortable or makes them feel unethical? Is "dark" playing a character that is dark and brooding and always cynical?

I don't think realism of a story would make it dark for me. The content of a story could be be described as forboding in some of the games I have played but this helps set the mood of the game. And having a gloomy attitude from the main character is nothing new...

I mean look at it this way.. Is Resident Evil dark? Is Silent Hill dark? Are some of the Final Fantasy games dark? I mean the anti hero is nothing new to the gaming scene and how many fantasy games start with world tumbling into a troubled time because some ruler was killed or kingdom invaded. Does the fact that the games don't show them happening make them less dark or just less realistic?

I have enjoyed all of the Atlus games I have played from the SMT series to My World, My Way to the Disgea games.

Shrug? Does this mean I am a dark gamer? Hmmmmm What is this Force you speak of.... :p

[Demonis]

Consider a few things. Atlus (even here on the boards) calls the SMT series its "flagship series". The SMT Logo is: (the background...)

http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/feapromocvr.jpg

Most 'average' people would see that and think... hmm dark.

However, what's neat about the games is that they have a dark story, but it's often in light of the bringing together of people to make bonds of friendship to defeat the evil. So... it's almost opposite of what people think.

[four_black_hearts]

The SMT shield is an example of a pentacle, a talisman thought to have power over summoning and contolling both Angels and Demons by Medieval European Practioners.

[Demonis]

Yeah we know what it is. But your everyday, run-of-the-mill jerk, will associate it with a pentagram.

[Vincent Alexander]

Those darn jerks and their ignorance...