Atlus ruined RPGs for me

[Pibbman]

EDIT: I probably should of put this in General discussion, if mod reads this could this be moved?

I "HATE" YOU GUYS.

Not really, but on a serious note, now whenever I start a new RPG game from another franchise/maker, I always get this feeling that the game is lacking so much and could be much better, which basically gets me to the point of never finishing that game.

I recently got FFX and tried playing it, and played it for a couple hours, but damn I just can't get into it.

It's funny because I wasn't really considered a "hardcore rpg gamer" until like 2007, which was when I played Etrian Odyssey and Persona 3. I've tried other RPGs from franchises like Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Cloud, etc but to be honest they all suck (except FF9 and Jeanne d'arc).

It's strange to see that my love for the genre comes from an RPG style that's considered more of the old style, meaning turn-based, very deep customization system, random dungeons, basically a style that originated back in the old days, in which they were designed that way because of technical system limitations back then.

Anyone else feel the same way I do, or am I alone? Honestly I should probably include NiS too in the RPG ruinage...

[Denninja]

Atlus whoops other companies' games so hard, it gets more difficult for me to find a game that I would like, more so after every Atlus game I finish... Keep this up, it's great! :-D

[Enzo_Kensei]

I also feel the same. I tried Star Ocean now, but I just ended up not finishing the game because I believe that the quality is not up to the Atlus standards.

Anyways, I have to be more open-minded about RPG's nowadays. I know that there are also good RPG's out there, but not as good as the ones Atlus produces/makes though. ^^

[Hamel]

I have been playing RPGs for years (started with PC ones like Diablo and BG then P&P games like D&D and Vampire and after that JRPGs) so I can basicly play anything that's good IMO

[Eternal Sin]

Yeah i agree that Persona 4 and Atlus titles in general really are higher quality than stuff out there. But i still get into other games, i find them not as great as atlus titles but at least i can finish them :P

[jeffx]

If by "ruined" you mean spoiled, then yes, I agree. They usually have a flair for what's best out there. I mean The Dark Spire and Ys Legacy I&II, we're off to a strong 2009. Looking forward to the eventual SMT-DS and Devil Summoner PS2 announcements, too. Aaand that they pick up Brandish for PSP.

[cj iwakura]

In terms of Atlus developed games, yes. Atlus published games... the quality tends to be a little downgraded.

Eternal Poison's hardly a bad game, certainly good in terms of story and art design, but great it isn't.

[ivan_the_one]

atlus has many unique out the of the box style games that many publishers wouldn't be caught dead releasing. that's what I like about them.

[jeffx]

atlus has many unique out the of the box style games that many publishers wouldn't be caught dead releasing. that's what I like about them.

please... define OOTB games? And Square Enix are releasing P4 in Europe. Good as dead? If anything, other (small) publishers are probably looking at Atlus with some twisted form of envy.

[ivan_the_one]

atlus has many unique out the of the box style games that many publishers wouldn't be caught dead releasing. that's what I like about them.

please... define OOTB games? And Square Enix are releasing P4 in Europe. Good as dead? If anything, other (small) publishers are probably looking at Atlus with some twisted form of envy. what I mean out of the box I mean games with subject matter such as wacky stories and questionable situations. they also give small virtually unknown games a chance to be on the market someting that bigger companies wouldn't even bother with.

[cj iwakura]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

[ivan_the_one]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now. well.. you might think that it's garbage but someone is bound to like it.

[Denninja]

Indeed, I have heard rumors of the existence of such creatures.

They scavenge visually appealing parts of already released games, and crudely mash them together to form abominations which attract unsuspecting children, whose life-force is then fed upon.)

[ivan_the_one]

Indeed, I have heard rumors of the existence of such creatures. they are reclusive creatures that cannot be killed due to the fact that they have no life.

[Blewz.hak]

Pibbman; I am new to Atlus RPG games, when I turned on my Luminous Arc 2 and saw the quality of animation and sound I was floored. Thus far I have continued to enjoy it's game play as well.

[jeffx]

well I enjoyed the hell out of Princess Debut and I'm MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT

PS that game is a serious chick magnet. Oh I am not f'ing kidding one second.

[Denninja]

Does it activate while in possession of male or female?
That's what matters. :bs:

[Eddie Van Helsing]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

You sure? They did Operation Darkness and the fifth Growlanser. :)

[slayn]

Hey now, Operation Darkness was pretty fun once you worked past the awful camera. It probably shouldn't have been a full-priced game at release, of course, but I never felt ripped off for paying sixty bucks for it.

[Denninja]

I can tell the game was named after it's camera angles...

[jeffx]

I can tell the game was named after it's camera angles...

You made a funny.

[Pibbman]

Princess on Ice? Never heard of it.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

Hey now, Operation Darkness was pretty fun once you worked past the awful camera. It probably shouldn't have been a full-priced game at release, of course, but I never felt ripped off for paying sixty bucks for it.

I rented Operation Darkness, so I can't complain too much. The camera was horrible in the demo, but I figured that it might have been fixed in time for the release. Then again, I figured that Silicon Knights would have worked the kinks out of Too Human between the demo and the release, but that never happened. Shows how much I know.

[slayn]

I rented Operation Darkness, so I can't complain too much. The camera was horrible in the demo, but I figured that it might have been fixed in time for the release. Then again, I figured that Silicon Knights would have worked the kinks out of Too Human between the demo and the release, but that never happened. Shows how much I know.

I don't think Atlus does a whole lot with the games they localize besides localize them and maybe, maybe fix glaring bugs. The camera in OD is part of the engine, which I'm almost certain is well beyond the bounds of what Atlus will tinker with.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

I don't think Atlus does a whole lot with the games they localize besides localize them and maybe, maybe fix glaring bugs. The camera in OD is part of the engine, which I'm almost certain is well beyond the bounds of what Atlus will tinker with.

You're probably right, and to be honest I'd rather see Atlus USA concentrate their resources on localizing Shin Megami Tensei games. I'm getting near the endgame in Persona 4, and I wouldn't mind a translation of Raidou Kuzunoha vs King Abaddon to tide me over until FFXIII hits the fan. :)

I can always rent OD again if I find myself jonesing for a tactical RPG, but I've yet to finish Disgaea 3, Valkyria Chronicles is awfully tempting, and there's always Fire Emblem since I have a Wii as well. :)

[cj iwakura]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

You sure? They did Operation Darkness and the fifth Growlanser. :)

I liked Growlanser V. It wasn't as good as Generations(especially II), but it was still fun. I'm glad they localized it.

Now they just need to bring over VI.

[Luna]

I did like Final Fantasy 9!!

[rainking187]

I also feel the same. I tried Star Ocean now, but I just ended up not finishing the game because I believe that the quality is not up to the Atlus standards.

Anyways, I have to be more open-minded about RPG's nowadays. I know that there are also good RPG's out there, but not as good as the ones Atlus produces/makes though. ^^



Which Star Ocean?

[AdrianMorales]

I enjoy all RPGs. It doesn't matter how stupid or crazy or serious they are:) I just like playing them all:)

[Eddie Van Helsing]

I did like Final Fantasy 9!!

That's one of my wife's favorites. She even has a plush Vivi doll that she takes to bed when I'm away from home on business.

[Onion of Mystery]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

Hey, everybody's gotta eat. Like Dennis Hopper, when he made that awful Super Mario Bros. movie.

[Sei]

^ Atlus ruined my Revelation Series: Persona

[Kakizaki]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

Hey now. Forget about Beyblade amongst some choice others?

[Pibbman]

I did like Final Fantasy 9!!

That's one of my wife's favorites. She even has a plush Vivi doll that she takes to bed when I'm away from home on business.

Yeah, only great FF in my opinion, however honestly I think they kinda killed it storywise with the whole sci-fi thing, one of the reasons I liked it so much was because of that old middle age deal.

Then again I never finished the game, because I got stuck at one part and couldn't continue because a certain character I was forced to use was so under leveled I couldn't get pass this part where they had "bosses" one after another and I was stupid enough to not have multiple earlier saves. This is where I learned my lesson about having multiple saves.

Now a days you'll see every rpg I have has multiple saves on the memory card.

[cj iwakura]

They also have a certain minimum of standards. You won't see them publishing the utter garbage I see on Aksys' website, for example.

Princess on Ice? Come on now.

Hey now. Forget about Beyblade amongst some choice others?

Touché.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

Yeah, only great FF in my opinion, however honestly I think they kinda killed it storywise with the whole sci-fi thing, one of the reasons I liked it so much was because of that old middle age deal.

*shrug* I thought that FF was always a science fantasy series, not straight fantasy. Some of the installments just emphasized the science part of "science fantasy" more than others. I have good memories of all the FF games I've played over the years, even FFVIII.

[Kakizaki]

^As you said, there were sci-fi elements present far before the installments mentioned here.

[Agedbrain]

Well what makes a RPG as it is? Story? Magic? Game play? The thing I like about companies like Atlus and NIS is that I don't know what the game is like because no one else does, until you play it. That's how games should be. They shouldn't be hyped, like all the other game companies in the world; just because your making a game doesn't mean that the world should know it.

[Kakizaki]

^I would say that has less to do with the publisher / developer and more to do with the media.

[iammako3]

The days of straight turn-based RPGs are dying, but those are the kind I love best, so I'm ever so glad Atlus still puts them out now and again. Atlus and NiS are about the only ones who do — everything else is action-RPGs. My reflexes just aren't good enough to enjoy those as thoroughly. :-(

[Kakizaki]

^I don't think they are dying. We just need to convince publishers in the U.S. that we still enjoy them.

[Pibbman]

^I don't think they are dying. We just need to convince publishers in the U.S. that we still enjoy them.

I agree, not only that even though turn-based and action RPGs, are in fact RPGs, but they imo vastly differ from each other. turn-based usually requires a high degree of strategy, whereas action you just keep spamming some button until you win, having almost no strategy at all.

For me it will always be turn-based RPG > Action RPG.

However, the system being used in White Knight Chronicle looks unique, but still most likely not better than turn-based, but probably definitely better than just pure action rpg.

[DamageCity]

I can't wait for Dragon Quest 5.

[Olethros]

I can't wait for Dragon Quest 5.

Agreed.

[Balrog]

There are plenty of non-Atlus RPGs that are great. This thread is silly.

[Olethros]

Agreed. Again.

Two good posts in a row; some kind of record here?

[SickleCellAnemia]

Olethros rules!

A third good post!

[Olethros]

Whoa. Crazyness is goin' on in here! :)

[Fadzuar Sabastian]

I can't wait for My Armored Salamandar.

:lovefirefox:

[King Frost]

I kind of agree with the OP, Atlus Japan RPGs for the PS2 kind of ruined RPGs for me, since I can't tolerate mediocrity in this genre any longer.

The customisation aspect of SMT isn't as important as some western RPGs but oh boy it does matter a lot more. You only have 8 slots for skills and with the Press Turn and Once More battle system, these choices matter a lot more than selecting between a sword that gives +5 str or one that gives +7 agl or where to put down your skill point to make your X attacks 1% stronger at best. It's a sign of great design.

The story line is generally a lot better than most other RPGs which only try to target teenagers for some reasons. Great imagination from Kaneko to take a myth and create a cool looking "demon" out of it. The music composer changed a lot of time but was always great!

What more could we ask for? Well, perhaps, a remake of SMT1 and SMT2 using the Press Turn system and the rest of the really well done stuff from SMT3.

[Vincent Alexander]

I try not to be hard on anything in life, music, movies or games. If you over-think something, you can ruin the fun of it. I play a game and try my best not to judge it based on others. If I did, I wouldn't have touched anymore games after Arc the Lad II or SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1.

[Manaboy]

I have been told that games are for pass time and that’s just what they are for to pass time as a form of entertainment, whenever I play a game I mainly look for the game-play and storyline, many people on forums sound like they want to make love to a particular game.
:lovefirefox:

I’ve played games like Radiata Stories, PSO, Zelda OOT/TP, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, Baton kaitos1/2, Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy 6-12 and to be honest I’ve enjoyed them all to a point, in the end of the day you are hocked and you pass time, you get dungeons, puzzles strategy, to work your brain in a fun way, Dr Kawashima's Brain Training is just full of Math and English hand eye coordination mini games, your not going to say that this is boring, this simply gives you a fun way to exercise your brain. And again you pass time, simple. :D


I can’t remember the names of the person that started this thread but I think like they said they like the old turn based dungeon filled RPGs, I’d recommend Zelda, Final Fantasy Fable Chocobo's dungeon and any one of Nomco’s Tale of series.

[DamnedToBeFree]

I can’t remember the names of the person that started this thread but I think like they said they like the old turn based dungeon filled RPGs, I’d recommend Zelda, Final Fantasy Fable Chocobo's dungeon and any one of Nomco’s Tale of series.


Zelda is an RPG? :question:

[Olethros]

Oh no. Here we go again. ;)

[RayFoxSith]

LOL, Olethros.

[slayn]

Guys. GUYS!.

Zelda is a princess.

[Superkenon]

Well said. All too often, people miss that point.

[Riku Xander]

Zelda is a princess.

^Exactly. That's as far as the Zelda discussion need go.

[Juanblue85]

Nah Atlus hasn't ruined RPGs for me. I still like other RPGs from other companies like Konami, Square Enix, Nintendo and etc.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

I think it's okay, I mean the only games RPG I like are Persona and Zelda (when I was a kid) after these games, I prefer to play MMORPG.

[Manic Expressive]

I am just generally attracted to good games, while Atlus would be GOD tier when it comes to RPG's there are still other series I am hoping to look forward to like Suikoden and DQ. It's too bad about no sign of a BoF game in the near future. :/ I would really at least love a DS or PSP game, read: not a port.

[Kakizaki]

^I never realized you were a fan of BoF. I think I knew you liked DQ (my personal fav in the series).

[Auden]

yeah, i defenetely agree. Atlus is the RPG saviour! with SO many companies today trying to
"remix" or reinvent [or whatever it is they are trying] the RPG genre, Atlus is there releasing TRUE games that aren't only addictive, fun, memorable and unique, but have a ton of hours of gamplay and replay value.

AND most importantly, the Spoil us, and we love it. keep bringin' on the artbooks, OSTs, plushdolls and more!

the only thing i DON'T like about Atlus...
PRINT MORE COPIES!!!

though i know it's not that simple, there are times when i miss an atlus game, and it's kinda HARD finding a copy after a few months...

[Taroni]

[QUOTE=Eddie Van Helsing;85018][QUOTE=slayn;85011]

You're probably right, and to be honest I'd rather see Atlus USA concentrate their resources on localizing Shin Megami Tensei games. I'm getting near the endgame in Persona 4, and I wouldn't mind a translation of Raidou Kuzunoha vs King Abaddon to tide me over until FFXIII hits the fan. :)
QUOTE]


Lol I believe a 3rd Raidou game be release before that

[kolaces]

Atlus hasn't ruined RPGs for me, I'm perfectly fine with playing mediocre RPGs. What I really like about Atlus is that, except in some cases (Contact, I'm looking at you ;)), their games can be a bit more difficult. While Final Fantasy VI is one of my favorite games, I've never finished it because it was too easy-Dealing 49995 damage for 5 mp at the endgame left litte reason play. Whereas in Yggdra Union, not planning thoroughly could lead to Yggdra frozen on ice about to melt the next turn-forcing me to start the level again. Atlus, you rock!

[septembervirgin]

Atlus is growing strong. I like to see Atlus games. However, I hope that Atlus does not stop where they are. Atlus should continue to grow, to increase flexibility. For example, Shin Megami Tensei should have a tactical game (which might offset the loss of Ogre Tactics). Persona, especially, deserves an MMORPG.

Despite my argument with the Persona title, I love it. PS3FES makes me wish it had a sequel and I keep looking around for a professionally done book and dice RPG. Maybe a Live Action Roleplaying Game club managed by Atlus!

In any case, I do hope to see shrines to Jack Frost appear worldwide.

[Riku Xander]

Atlus, you rock!

^Definitely agree!!!!!

[Manaboy]

Zelda is an RPG? :question:

No it’s a Fantasy Action Adventure ever heard of it? Better yet have you ever heard of MMORPG or are you one of them ignorant people that only know RPG, besides that the point is, I added this games because it has dungeons :D


It's strange to see that my love for the genre comes from an RPG style that's considered more of the old style, meaning turn-based, very deep customization system, random dungeons, basically a style that originated back in the old days, in which they were designed that way because of technical system limitations back then.


Zelda

I have to admit, I have in the past recommended The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to some of my friends but the common question was, does it have “blood” that was all they asked, I figured that this type of game is too much for some of the low intellect people out there. :D

Exactly. That's as far as the Zelda discussion need go.

Off topic
crappest game ever :mad:

I don’t know in the past I have come across crap games but the crappest game I’ve ever played has to be [b]Grand Theft Auto IV[b] it just takes the crappest game ever crown, :agree:

The graphic is crap the concept is crap and don’t get me wrong I did try to give it a chance but all you do is go on some gangster mission kill a few people rob cars run people down and that’s about it. :yawn:

On any game the main character is graphically focused on more then the NPCs but on GTA4 both the PS3 and Xbox360 version the main guy and all other NPC had pinocchio limbs (wood arms) and the face details are no different then Shenmue’s stiff frozen textures. :D

I really don’t see what all the fuss was about I even heard that there was a stabbing for this game and more over on Gamespot there was a guy that said this game was his God, I just don’t see it. :agree:

edit - I deleted some of the comments that were unwarranted. Manaboy, you can't just start ripping on people because they disagree with you or they don't understand your point. -Kakizaki

[Riku Xander]

I'm sorry for trying to prevent the Zelda arguement that in my experience always pops up whenever someone says that it's an RPG. I know that it isn't.

[Pibbman]

Zelda is an RPG? :question:

No it’s a Fantasy Action Adventure ever heard of it? Better yet have you ever heard of MMORPG or are you one of them ignorant people that only know RPG, besides that the point is, I added this games because it has dungeons :D


It's strange to see that my love for the genre comes from an RPG style that's considered more of the old style, meaning turn-based, very deep customization system, random dungeons, basically a style that originated back in the old days, in which they were designed that way because of technical system limitations back then.


Zelda

I have to admit, I have in the past recommended The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to some of my friends but the common question was, does it have “blood” that was all they asked, I figured that this type of game is too much for some of the low intellect people out there. :D

Exactly. That's as far as the Zelda discussion need go.

Well said. All too often, people miss that point.
Guys. GUYS!.
Zelda is a princess.


Off topic
crappest game ever :mad:

I don’t know in the past I have come across crap games but the crappest game I’ve ever played has to be [b]Grand Theft Auto IV[b] it just takes the crappest game ever crown, :agree:

The graphic is crap the concept is crap and don’t get me wrong I did try to give it a chance but all you do is go on some gangster mission kill a few people rob cars run people down and that’s about it. :yawn:

On any game the main character is graphically focused on more then the NPCs but on GTA4 both the PS3 and Xbox360 version the main guy and all other NPC had pinocchio limbs (wood arms) and the face details are no different then Shenmue’s stiff frozen textures. :D

I really don’t see what all the fuss was about I even heard that there was a stabbing for this game and more over on Gamespot there was a guy that said this game was his God, I just don’t see it. :agree:

I know how the whole "does it have blood/guns" thing is. Quite frankly it annoys me. I have friends that I'd love to actually play games with, but they ONLY play FPS, they won't even give a game of a different genre a second look. So I usually end up playing by myself, or meet someone online who will.

I think GTA4 is a good game to play, but once you beat the game, it's pretty much dead. I guess I'm the type of person that REALLY needs a story in my game, that's really what pushes me to continue playing games to find out what happen. In GTA4, once I beat the storyline, I didn't have a damn interest in the game anymore. Honestly...I dislike sandbox games.

As for the Zelda games being an "Action Adventure" or "RPG", I know from reading a quite a few articles from game publications, that if it wasn't so insisted that it was an "Action Adventure" when the franchise first started out, many of the editors would consider it an Action RPG. If anything, in my opinion it's extremely borderline between the two.

personally, I could give a crap what genre it's considered, it's a fun franchise for me and that's all that matters to me.

Atlus is growing strong. I like to see Atlus games. However, I hope that Atlus does not stop where they are. Atlus should continue to grow, to increase flexibility. For example, Shin Megami Tensei should have a tactical game (which might offset the loss of Ogre Tactics). Persona, especially, deserves an MMORPG.

Despite my argument with the Persona title, I love it. PS3FES makes me wish it had a sequel and I keep looking around for a professionally done book and dice RPG. Maybe a Live Action Roleplaying Game club managed by Atlus!

In any case, I do hope to see shrines to Jack Frost appear worldwide.

Oh man, an SMT Tactical/Strategy game would just friggin rule.

I'd like to see Level 5 do another SRPG, Jeanne d'Arc on PSP is just amazing, strangely I'm not a fan of their action rpgs. I got Dark Cloud 2 and Rogue Galaxy on my shelf, but....ehh.

Anyways, Atlus should definitely try doing one. It could be a new spin-off if they wanted.

[PFV]

Oh man, an SMT Tactical/Strategy game would just friggin rule.

Look up "Majin Tensei."

[Pibbman]

Oh man, an SMT Tactical/Strategy game would just friggin rule.

Look up "Majin Tensei."

Sadly from what I see so far on Wikipedia and IGN, it's Japan only. So that doesn't help me much.

[slayn]

words

Ok, we need to make it against to rules to make stream of consciousness posts because the quoted post is just ridiculous.

[Manaboy]

Oh man, an SMT Tactical/Strategy game would just friggin rule.

Look up "Majin Tensei."

Sadly from what I see so far on Wikipedia and IGN, it's Japan only. So that doesn't help me much.

If you really like your games then you should try learning Japanese, I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it quick, the formal version of Japanese is more difficult then the informal version but if you put you mind to it you could learn it easily, many of the Tale of RPG hardly make it to the USA specially on the DS, one thing I like about getting JP games is that the Box art is always better then the western versions.

A lot of my friends can’t wait for PSZ DS to come out in the USA but that’s going to be something like Fall 09, one thing that I found is that most of the Japanese humour gets lost in the translation.

If you know someone back in Japan then it really doesn’t cost that much to have games imported, sometimes its cheaper, but if the game does not work then your in trouble, luckily for me I have my brother back there to fully test it before sending it to me.

In my opinion the western gaming industry are being neglected, many games that are out in JP hardly make it hare.

[Olethros]

This entire thread makes me sad. It's Friday morning, I should be happy. Then I read this. :(

[iammako3]

If you really like your games then you should try learning Japanese, I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it quick, the formal version of Japanese is more difficult then the informal version but if you put you mind to it you could learn it easily

. . .what?! Listen, I like that you're crazy optimistic, but even after 3 years of Japanese in college I can't even fully understand games with familiar terms (aka, games set in modern times) let alone sci-fi or fantasy ones! And don't get me started on kanji without any furigana! Maybe there are those special people out there who can learn Japanese ultra super quick, but for the rest of us learning Japanese to play import games only is not an option.

Now, that won't stop me from importing some games and trying to struggle my way through them, but a deep and wonderfully story-driven RPG all in Japanese would be lost on me. :-(

[Kakizaki]

Manaboy, you can't just start ripping on people because they disagree with you or they don't understand your point.

Please don't do that again in the future.

[Kenji]

I'm learning Japanese, myself, but it'll be a very long time before I'm proficient enough to read the likes of, say, Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon. I've learned a few interesting things from Nocturne Maniax Chronicle Edition (e.g. how close the protagonist and his two classmates actually are, that Hijiri may be a pseudonym, and the foreignness of Vortex World Tokyo... though I draw a blank about what the last could possibly imply), but there's no way I could confidently progress without crossing out skills in Magatama lists as I reject them. Or, worse, outright guessing whenever I'm trying to contract a demon or advance the story.

I'm hardly the best authority, but it seems to me that MegaTen requires a significantly higher reading level than Final Fantasy.

I must say that MegaTen quickly became my favorite RPG franchise. I mean, I grew up on FF, and I will probably always love FF, but MegaTen just has better gameplay and better stories. It's hard not to regard FF plots as overwritten tripe, at this point, even though I still find them charming.

Part of it may be related to why Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are so good. Those games, MegaTen, and a few others, I can't imagine them being anything other than games. If I try to imagine them as a movie, anime, manga, or novel, it just falls flat. The experience hinges so much on the gameplay aspect. I think that's part of why the series resonates so strongly.

[Sei]

I'm hardly the best authority either but Megaten is definitely harder than FF, it seems to use a lot of Kanji that aren't very common. So far the best, easiest to read game I've come across is Mother 3, which doesn't seem to use a lot of Kanji at all. But then I actually find Japanese harder to read without it.

There are a couple of OVA's based on Megaten but they aren't that good (sort of watchable if you have the time) and a book that is supossed to be good that predates the series. I think the main problem with it is that since there isn't a lot of dialogue in the games, an adaptation would have to make up a lot of stuff. I think DDS would be a good anime though.

[DamnedToBeFree]

This entire thread makes me sad. It's Friday morning, I should be happy. Then I read this. :(

:agree:

[SickleCellAnemia]

This entire thread makes me sad. It's Friday morning, I should be happy. Then I read this. :(

:agree:

I also agree.

[Pibbman]

So in other words...Atlus's translators are GODLIKE!

I found Rosetta Stone to be excellent for learning Japanese. However due to time constraints I can't focus on it as much anymore.

[Riku Xander]

So in other words...Atlus's translators are GODLIKE!

I found Rosetta Stone to be excellent for learning Japanese. However due to time constraints I can't focus on it as much anymore.

^ Yes, yes they are.

[VMan]

I'm hardly the best authority either but Megaten is definitely harder than FF, it seems to use a lot of Kanji that aren't very common. So far the best, easiest to read game I've come across is Mother 3, which doesn't seem to use a lot of Kanji at all. But then I actually find Japanese harder to read without it.


If its one thing I've noticed since I started playing games in Japanese (at least to me) is that there at seems to be a bit of a correlation in the game's theme (and perhaps demographic) and the complexity of the dialogue (thus the Kanji). If you think about it, it makes sense. I agree with you about Megaten relative to FF. And then on the other hand, I played through the Japanese version of Kingdom Heats RE: Chain of Memories quite smoothly.

[septembervirgin]

Majin Tensei could use some attention. However, I think that a game more open to character recruitment, with potential for characters across the spectrum of Atlus games would be salable. I mean, imagine having Persona users (some with evokers, some with glasses) comingling with computer demon summoners, etc.

The story for such a thing might be rather splendid. Especially if some of these various groups are in different factions with different agenda.

[Tatsuya]

It's definitely hard to find a fun rpg now, since the megaten games own so much, case in point lost odyssey, blue dragon and last remnant, i own all 3 and tbh i really don't care to play them again, but give me persona 2, 3 or 4, DDS or any megaten game and i'll spend hours tormenting my game system and ruining my eyes lol.

[Rikuo]

After looking at my Game collection, i say the first Atlus game i got was Odin Sphere. Before long Atlus appeared on more and more of my games and RPG's. Square took a major decline in my collection.
Simply put, Atlus RPG's pretty much rape most other RPG's. I find Non-Atlus RPG's fun, but i still plan on playing Odin Sphere for the 14th time in 2015.

[Sepherest]

Same problem.
Nowadays I just have a tendency to blurt out
"Yeah, that's probably not as good as -Megaten game-... "
Although I do really still like the Shadow Hearts RPG's, as well as a few of the older Final Fantasy games (and I am definately looking forward to kicking butt with Palamecia in Dissidia).
But everything else (like Kingdom Hearts, The World Ends With You, and the newer Tales games) have been failing my expectations.

[Kaibigan]

ATLUS hasn't ruined RPGs, but rather they presented another franchise that I enjoy to play. ATLUS USA also has localized a lot of good games. Unfortunately, I'm not very impressed at all within the past year as well as this year's line-up (with miniscule exceptions.)

I try my best not to compare RPGs, especially before even buying them. Going in not expecting much helps, especially if the game does suck. Some RPGs you can't even compare to others.

If I listened to my friends or what reviewers had to say about games, I probably would have missed out on some exceptional games. I remember Kaki saying something like this at one point in time.

Ultimately, to each his own. I do suggest giving game a chance at least. Personal experiences give you more to go off of, instead of word of mouth.

[Neveryll]

As far as publishers go I have enjoyed a number of games that Atlus has brought to the market and appreciate the fact that they find as much merit in the quirky odd and dark and gloomy games as the standard sword and magic fair that has defined the RPG market for years. My first RPG games I can remember where Bard's Tale and Demon's Winter to give you an idea of how long I've been playing.

The only time I have had some complaint is when the translation seems a bit off and the story loses some of its intended tone. All in all Atlus is one of my favorite publishers. It would be fun to some day work for them but isn't that every gamers "dream" job.

[PainKilleR-[CE]]

I find it's better to be a little picky. I used to buy a lot of games (I still haven't played a LOT of my PS2 games), but a few years ago my budget for games took a plunge. So, I have to make good choices, and limit myself to the best developers and publishers, and the small number of series I just can't pass up. Because of the (usually) low numbers published, and the quality of the titles, I try to pick up SMT titles as soon as they're released.

Besides, with the number of hours I can put into just one SMT or Disgaea title, it's going to be a long time before I get around to playing some of those games on my shelf.

[Manaboy]

If you really like your games then you should try learning Japanese, I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it quick, the formal version of Japanese is more difficult then the informal version but if you put you mind to it you could learn it easily

. . .what?! Listen, I like that you're crazy optimistic, but even after 3 years of Japanese in college I can't even fully understand games with familiar terms (aka, games set in modern times) let alone sci-fi or fantasy ones! And don't get me started on kanji without any furigana! Maybe there are those special people out there who can learn Japanese ultra super quick, but for the rest of us learning Japanese to play import games only is not an option.

Now, that won't stop me from importing some games and trying to struggle my way through them, but a deep and wonderfully story-driven RPG all in Japanese would be lost on me. :-(

To be honest maybe it was easy for me to learn it because I was born and educated there, I can see where you’re coming from, who knows maybe it was the method used to teach it, don't know

[Hyperactive]

The biggest difference for me between atlus and other company games are the graphics. I am so tired of large, realistic 3-d worlds, and characters who look as realistic as possible. I miss my super deformed characters. While atlus does not use super deformed characters, they do use anime inspired characters, which is not realistic, and much more enjoyable for me. I use games to get away from reality for a bit, not see people who look like they could be models in my world acting out a script written by a game company. Realistic models just don't do it for me. Its why I am losing my love of square enix. I grew up on them, and as far as I am concerned, the pinnacle of their rpg's was final fantasy 7. When they gave up on the realistic graphics and made kingdom hearts, they got another winner. But they went back to realistic graphics again, and seem to only try to make them look more and more realistic.

As long as atlus doesn't betray me and start localizing only realistic games, I will be a life time fan.

PS. NIS is my other favorite company besides Atlus, and its entirely due to their graphics and their old school rpg's. Even if their games are semi easy, I still enjoy them. Noticed they added a difficulty setting to Ar Tonelico 2 though, so hopefully they are fixing the easy issue.

[calla12345]

so that's why i lost interest in the other games so i hope there should be persona 5 and so on atlus sure got the best rpg

[Shadro]

What I personally think is that the standard for most RPG games hit a decline since the 16bit era. There are some people who think no RPG has beat FFVII/FFIII or Chrono Trigger yet (or Phantasy Star II if your me). So I can see where this is coming from, a lot of modern RPGs are just not up to snuff with older ones, and a lot of the Atlus titles out now go back to the 16bit time and such. Then I would love to see more first person RPGs, that kinda just died out for the most part, but they are just so good, though a lot are starting to get a lot on the DS.

[X-Grunger]

haha same here.
now i only enjoy the hard rpg fames like etrian oddysey.

that its the kenshiro`s rpg hahahaha
the dificult its only for truly mans

[ufofreek]

FF9 is my 2nd fav rpg next to legend of dragoon .

[Sedric]

lol Atlus ruined RPG's for you come on!Atlus has great RPG's!Rondo Of Swords,Fire Emblem,and the FF games are my fav RPG's so far.

[Vincent Alexander]

lol Atlus ruined RPG's for you come on!Atlus has great RPG's!Rondo Of Swords,Fire Emblem,and the FF games are my fav RPG's so far.
I'm confused...

[Olethros]

^ Not unusual.

[Demonis]

a lot of people gave FFX a lot of crap for having such a wimpy MC. But to be honest, it has a great story, and a relatively large amount of side quests. I played 170+hours and STILL have not beaten everthing. (Damn monster arena....)

The story was good enough for me to buy the crappy FFX-2 just for the extra dialogue, even though it didn't turn out like I had hoped.

Think of Tidus and Yuna about like Cloud and Aeris except in a less 'dark' world.

[Chidori Boy Uchiha]

EDIT: I probably should of put this in General discussion, if mod reads this could this be moved?

I "HATE" YOU GUYS.

Not really, but on a serious note, now whenever I start a new RPG game from another franchise/maker, I always get this feeling that the game is lacking so much and could be much better, which basically gets me to the point of never finishing that game.

I recently got FFX and tried playing it, and played it for a couple hours, but damn I just can't get into it.

It's funny because I wasn't really considered a "hardcore rpg gamer" until like 2007, which was when I played Etrian Odyssey and Persona 3. I've tried other RPGs from franchises like Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Cloud, etc but to be honest they all suck (except FF9 and Jeanne d'arc).

It's strange to see that my love for the genre comes from an RPG style that's considered more of the old style, meaning turn-based, very deep customization system, random dungeons, basically a style that originated back in the old days, in which they were designed that way because of technical system limitations back then.

Anyone else feel the same way I do, or am I alone? Honestly I should probably include NiS too in the RPG ruinage...

ya know something i'm the same as you

[Vincent Alexander]

a lot of people gave FFX a lot of crap for having such a wimpy MC.
At least Tidus is an actual character instead of an empty shell that doesn't talk.

[Balrog]

a lot of people gave FFX a lot of crap for having such a wimpy MC.
At least Tidus is an actual character instead of an empty shell that doesn't talk.

moar liek silent profagonist, amirite?

[Vincent Alexander]

a lot of people gave FFX a lot of crap for having such a wimpy MC.
At least Tidus is an actual character instead of an empty shell that doesn't talk.

moar liek silent profagonist, amirite?
:wink:

[Zetsword]

I generally enjoy the Atlus RPGs and western RPGs of this generation moreso than I do the remainder of the JRPGs that are out there that really seem like they're just doing the same things over and over again or are doing them wrong. A prime example for me is Tales of Vesperia. The gameplay which has the real-time fighting fun we all know(that I've always enjoyed more with the Star Ocean games) has been getting just a tad bit repetitive. I can appreciate the new ability system that's been added to the game and I could see how someone that hasn't played a Tales game before would enjoy the gameplay but for me there isn't enough strategy involved as I found myself able to button mash through a good portion of it. The gameplay isn't where my major problem is though, it's with the lazy storytelling which is where I'm really getting tired of these JRPGs. Some knight doesn't like the way the Empire is going about their business(I will admit Yuri was interesting but he was the only one), then starts a quest that begins on a small scale and explodes into save the world plot, couldn't get more standard than that. I'm not saying I have a problem with games that have an epic scale, I'm just concerned about the same plots with the same cookie-cutter characters and this is why I love games like Persona 2, Nocturne, Suikoden V, and such.

[The Liztress]

a lot of people gave FFX a lot of crap for having such a wimpy MC.
At least Tidus is an actual character instead of an empty shell that doesn't talk.

I must be one of few people who don't mind a silent character. Sure, it would have been nice for the MCs from any of the SMT to have talked but I don't see where it hurt the gaming experience for me.


Atlus didn't ruin RPGs for me, but rather made me learn to be more picky in the developers I buy from. NIS and Atlus are the main ones I prefer. SE had some good games, I think. I loved FFXII while a lot of people hated it. The license grid and battle system were a couple of my favorite parts to it.

[Kakizaki]

^I honestly don't mind silent protagonists either.

[Delition]

^I don't mind them if they're done well, but a lot of times they don't seem to fit the games. I thought Persona 4 would have been better with a protagonist that could talk. It felt too emotionless, especially with what people were complaining about with the ending(s).

[henbayward]

Well, I dig the older RPGs. I don't really think it's an Atlus thing, I think modern RPGs in general are lacking. Right now, I'm loving FFIV for the DS, Dragon Quest 4 was great, looking forward to 5 and 6, Dragon Quest 8 was awesome and so was Rogue Galaxy. Give those a shot, maybe. Lately, the Final Fantasy series seems to be more about flash than substance. 8 was atrocious and 10 wasn't much better. They need to stop milking FFVII and get the series back on track and up to the level it used to be at.

If you like the customization, Rogue Galaxy really does a good job of delivering and from the looks of it, so will Dragon Quest 9. Another game that looks awesome is Infinite Line (Infinite Space, but I like the original title better.) Deep story, customization, and what looks to be a nice battle system.

Atlus, though, does an awesome job of catering to the hardcore gamers. I don't consider myself hardcore anymore, but I still dig the Atlus! Great games that always bring fresh ideas to the table. Etrian Odyssey was great, can't wait for Dark Spire and especially Devil Survivor! Some of their games work better than others, but they're always a nice change of pace from the status quo.

[Vincent Alexander]

I've gotten used to silent characters a lot more, but it still irks me. I don't hate them, but I personally believe a game can be so much more with a speaking character. One of the most important aspects of a video game is the main character, the character you are forced to relate to in a positive or negative way, and I have a hard time feeling that silent protagonists are great characters because they don't feel like characters...at all. I can't relate to them, and it takes me out of the game. I hope that makes sense and I don't sound crazy.

[Kakizaki]

^That makes sense.

Sometimes I can relate better to silent protagonists for almost the same reasons you listed VA in regards to speaking characters - especially when choices are given. It is easier for me to feel like I am actually them when there isn't hokey dialog.

[Balrog]

Yeah, by keeping the protagonist silent it makes then more of a vessel to project upon. Rather than having a concrete character that you may or may not relate to you have something more abstract, malleable even. I guess it kinda depends on the player though, if you don't like the silent protagonist it might be that you're projecting yourself onto them and by disliking them you're actually disliking yourself or some aspect of yourself.

[The Liztress]

^ Yep. Like with FFX, I didn't feel attached to Tidus because he said and did stuff I wouldn't have. And yeah, Persona 4's MC probably would have been better if he talked.

[Superkenon]

The silent protagonists are always fun for me, since I like having the ability to shape their character and personality from scratch in my mind. Via my busy imagination, some of those silent guys have ended up being among the most memorable to me.

That said, I like it just as much the other way, just for different reasons. But really, it depends on the game itself. Certain titles are simply just better suited for one way over another... for instance, in a game like Persona 4, silent protagonist is pretty much the only way to go, since the focus is on the player's freedom to do... whatever. If he had a personality, it couldn't be much of one, as he would have to be "open" enough to fit comfortably with any of the player's actions.

Meanwhile, in games that are more about telling their story rather than yours, a protagonist capable of speech is the better choice. You need a character who will personally drive the story forward, and probably be deeply-rooted into it as well, which is something that usually can't be done with the "blank slate" that is silent protagonists.

Both ways have their fair share of merits. I jus' go with the flow, myself...

[otakutom]

I'm very much the same way as a number of people in this thread. After playing Persona 3, FES, and now working on 4, I have a hard time getting into other RPGs. Atlus's RPGs are far better than any other game in the genre that I've played. The only ones that come close are some classics like Chrono Trigger, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue, and Xenosaga.

I got the e-mail earlier today about Persona being remastered for the PSP and had to do everything within my power not to scream in excitement while at work. I finally have a reason to buy a PSP...haha

[nadeshiiko]

yeah! final fantasy 9! it was the best final fantasy in the psx console... or better yet... the best final fantasy yet...

final fantasy 7 would be second due to its character development... yes, cloud changed. but only a little... LOL and they're overrating it much much...

advent children was a great movie... but the characters were too powerful... LOL

IMO XD

[dungeon_man]

With a silent protagonist, you are free to feel what your character would feel and make decisions you would want your character to make. It feels more like role-playing and is much better than a cheesy scripted and voice-acted part if you have any empathy and/or imagination.


Anyway, Atlus RPGs taught me to quit wasting time with all of the crap RPGs out there (FF, Tales, etc) because some people still make good ones. I can't really say Atlus ruined those other RPGs for me; those crap games ruined themselves and I quit playing after a dozen or so hours back before I knew who Atlus was.

[Vincent Alexander]

With a silent protagonist, you are free to feel what your character would feel and make decisions you would want your character to make. It feels more like role-playing and is much better than a cheesy scripted and voice-acted part if you have any empathy and/or imagination.
I'll just say my final piece about silent protagonists and never bring it up again. The reasons why 99% of people like silent protagonists are exactly the reasons why I hate them...er...dislike them. No, hate them. But I still understand how many would find it appealing.

[dungeon_man]

^ Because most current RPG users like "watching" instead of "role playing" or "gaming".

Though RPGs had been heading this way for a while, the PS1 Final Fantasy games made a big shift towards RPGs being a more passive experience. This resulted in an influx of new people playing RPGs because passive entertainment (television) is more popular than interactive entertainment (games). Some of these new RPG fans were converted to appreciate the "role playing" and "gaming" aspects of more traditional RPGs, but the majority just want interactive fiction.

That is the change that resulted in me not liking most modern RPGs, and I am quite thankful that people still make a few games that are more focused on role-playing and/or gameplay. (Nocturne was the best recent example of this.)

[xHaseox]

I'm probably the odd one out here.

I play JRPGs almost exclusively for the story (except Disgaea), and I prefer more action-oriented gameplay like Kingdom Hearts and Rogue Galaxy.

I was never interested in the difficulty or old-school gameplay of Megami Tensei, but rather the darker, more mature storylines. The Persona titles specifically have gotten me very emotional. I've never cried over a video game before Persona 3, and Persona 4 made me laugh until it hurt.

Atlus so far has succeeded in pulling me away from Final Fantasy by the ankles, but I crawl back a little bit with every Final Fantasy XIII screen-shot and trailer.

Hopefully Atlus will show off something at this year's E3 or TGS that will capture my attention and take it completely away from Square Enix.

[King Frost]

Though RPGs had been heading this way for a while, the PS1 Final Fantasy games made a big shift towards RPGs being a more passive experience. This resulted in an influx of new people playing RPGs because passive entertainment (television) is more popular than interactive entertainment (games). Some of these new RPG fans were converted to appreciate the "role playing" and "gaming" aspects of more traditional RPGs, but the majority just want interactive fiction.

This is nicely said and you are probably right about that.

[MileyWinters]

Yeah, it's horrible O.O
I got Persona 4 in January and I still can't stop playing it >.<
There's just no great RPGs these days you could compare to the games ATLUS created.
Give FF X another try though. It's an amazing game, and you'll have fun once you get away from AtLus' Siren-Call xD

[shinichikudo]

Yeah, it's horrible O.O
I got Persona 4 in January and I still can't stop playing it >.<
There's just no great RPGs these days you could compare to the games ATLUS created.
Give FF X another try though. It's an amazing game, and you'll have fun once you get away from AtLus' Siren-Call xD

yeah me too, i cannot stop playing P4 even i have finished it 3 times, i tried to find a new RPG game but, P4 beat it all hands down.....

[Hyperactive]

yeah! final fantasy 9! it was the best final fantasy in the psx console... or better yet... the best final fantasy yet...

final fantasy 7 would be second due to its character development... yes, cloud changed. but only a little... LOL and they're overrating it much much...

advent children was a great movie... but the characters were too powerful... LOL

IMO XD

The characters in advent children were supposed to be powerful. You think the characters would of been special if everybody in their world could go slay bahamut? The show was pure fan service, and I love it for that reason.

RPG's just suck nowadays. So much money is spent on in game movies that should of been spent on actual game play. I recently got a hold of start ocean 4 on the xbox 360. Just like most present SE games, flashy, pretty, but the storyline was severely lacking for a start ocean, the combat sucked badly due to slow melee attacks and trying to get the timing to use another special move after one you are doing now. Its hard to do everything that came so easily in other star oceans, and I don't mean good hard where if you learn how to do it, the game opens up for you. Also, SE is getting into a bad habit of making one button press create fireworks. I first really noticed this in Kingdom Hearts 2, where just button mashing made your character do insane acrobatics all the while beating the daylights out of an enemy. It took no skill, just mash mash mash. Mash the Y button while your at it so you don't accidently miss some of those Y moments to. No skill required. Star Ocean suffers from this.

Anyway, enough griping. This is why I like Atlus games. They are challenging, and not stupidly challenging, like listed above. The games are actual games, not tests of patience. They aren't trying to force feed us real models in every single game, they aren't trying to force us to move on with no choice in the matter. This is why Atlus is ruining me for almost all other companies who make rpg's. They aren't trying to lead me by the hand and tell me this is a good game because its so pretty and life like.

[Ratix]

I've grown to dislike mainstream RPGs in general. I used to love Final Fantasy up until FFX. With FFX, the series plummeted downhill and too many other RPGs followed its style (I know some will disagree with this). Basically, that's why I like companies like Atlus; they offer alternatives to all the FFX clones.

[WhiteTiger2]

At least ATLUS actually cares about their work, unlike NISA who's starting to become... worse than ATLUS back in 1995, I dare say. NISA was pretty well thought of once, but I guess the management took a wrong turn sometime near their localized Atelier Iris 3 with the content butchering becoming apparent in later releases. The usual unoriginal jokes found in the Disgaea series and related titles might work for them, but not in GUST games. That's just me though, seeing as how GUST's titles seem more 'serious' in nature.

[reason1313]

I love rpgs in general so i like sharing the love. I enjoyed FFX just as much as the US released Personas.

We got it real good in the RPG department on the PS2/PSP(i don't own a Wii/DS) so i can't complain.

[babypuncher]

well I enjoyed the hell out of Princess Debut and I'm MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT


I liked that game more than any guy should.

anyways no ATLUS did not "spoil" rpgs for me. I still play tons of other RPG's and I like them just as much and sometimes more than ATLUS RPG's.

[xtreme_phoenix]

Atlus certainly has raised my jrpg standards. The only FF I've even moderately enjoyed since I became one of the faithful has been twelve, and only the high quality classics from the likes of sega overworks (Valkyria chronicles, skies of arcadia, phantasy stars 1, 2, 4 and online) and level 5 (dark cloud series) manage to hold my intrest. It doesn't cause the same problem with american RPGs though. Bethesda and Bioware ruined those for me.

[Zacewing]

I can play any RPG that I find fun. I even like some of the RPG's that the general RPG playerbase find horrible. (i.e. FF8, FF12, SO3, etc.)

But SMT ranks up there as one of my favourite RPG series.

[Vincent Alexander]

I can play any RPG that I find fun. I even like some of the RPG's that the general RPG playerbase find horrible. (i.e. FF8, FF12, SO3, etc.)
I like you.

[Pibbman]

At least ATLUS actually cares about their work, unlike NISA who's starting to become... worse than ATLUS back in 1995, I dare say. NISA was pretty well thought of once, but I guess the management took a wrong turn sometime near their localized Atelier Iris 3 with the content butchering becoming apparent in later releases. The usual unoriginal jokes found in the Disgaea series and related titles might work for them, but not in GUST games. That's just me though, seeing as how GUST's titles seem more 'serious' in nature.

So I'm not the only one that's noticed an decrease in quality on NiSA titles.

Atlus certainly has raised my jrpg standards. The only FF I've even moderately enjoyed since I became one of the faithful has been twelve, and only the high quality classics from the likes of sega overworks (Valkyria chronicles, skies of arcadia, phantasy stars 1, 2, 4 and online) and level 5 (dark cloud series) manage to hold my intrest. It doesn't cause the same problem with american RPGs though. Bethesda and Bioware ruined those for me.

I just finished Valkyria Chronicles last night. Great game. I'm almost tempted to try out Skies of Arcadia.

EDIT: NM, it's for Dreamcast, and I don't have that.

[Futanari]

Skies of Arcadia was also remade for the Gamecube. You should be able to find it on eBay.

[Oni-Kagura]

I've noticed this myself - not long after I started playing the MegaTen series (as well as a few other Atlus titles), I had a harder time playing other RPG series - there's the occasional "FFT:A2" or "Fable 2", but in general...I tend to get halfway into non-Atlus RPGs and never finish them.

[Vincent Alexander]

You guys are missing out on a lot if you are only playing Atlus games. In general, if you are playing one company's games only, you are missing out. If you can't find any games out there that can hold your interest except for Atlus ones, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough.

[xtreme_phoenix]

At least ATLUS actually cares about their work, unlike NISA who's starting to become... worse than ATLUS back in 1995, I dare say. NISA was pretty well thought of once, but I guess the management took a wrong turn sometime near their localized Atelier Iris 3 with the content butchering becoming apparent in later releases. The usual unoriginal jokes found in the Disgaea series and related titles might work for them, but not in GUST games. That's just me though, seeing as how GUST's titles seem more 'serious' in nature.

So I'm not the only one that's noticed an decrease in quality on NiSA titles.

Atlus certainly has raised my jrpg standards. The only FF I've even moderately enjoyed since I became one of the faithful has been twelve, and only the high quality classics from the likes of sega overworks (Valkyria chronicles, skies of arcadia, phantasy stars 1, 2, 4 and online) and level 5 (dark cloud series) manage to hold my intrest. It doesn't cause the same problem with american RPGs though. Bethesda and Bioware ruined those for me.

I just finished Valkyria Chronicles last night. Great game. I'm almost tempted to try out Skies of Arcadia.

EDIT: NM, it's for Dreamcast, and I don't have that.

dude, you can pick up a dc for cheap online. And I'm not advocating piracy or anything but... it has absolutely zero copy protection. you don't even have to mod it to play burned games and homebrew. it is the ultimate system for a recession era gamer.

[Pibbman]

Skies of Arcadia was also remade for the Gamecube. You should be able to find it on eBay.

Oh yeah. Thanks.

[dungeon_man]

You guys are missing out on a lot if you are only playing Atlus games. In general, if you are playing one company's games only, you are missing out. If you can't find any games out there that can hold your interest except for Atlus ones, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough.

And what exactly are they missing? In the past few years, Atlus published the majority of worthwhile RPGs on the systems that are good for RPGs. For a gamer who's into RPGs, PS2, DS, and PSP are where it's at, and Atlus handles NA publishing for enough developers to keep any serious RPG fan happy with the diversity and quality of their titles.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few specific examples of recent non-Atlus RPGs that are worth the time and money, but I don't think that would qualify as "missing out on a lot."

[Zacewing]

I haven't even played a lot of MegaTen games. The only ones I've played are the PS2 titles (DDS1, DDS2, RKvSA, P3FES, P4, Nocturne) and IMAGINE Online.

RPG's just suck nowadays. So much money is spent on in game movies that should of been spent on actual game play. I recently got a hold of start ocean 4 on the xbox 360. Just like most present SE games, flashy, pretty, but the storyline was severely lacking for a start ocean, the combat sucked badly due to slow melee attacks and trying to get the timing to use another special move after one you are doing now. Its hard to do everything that came so easily in other star oceans, and I don't mean good hard where if you learn how to do it, the game opens up for you. Also, SE is getting into a bad habit of making one button press create fireworks. I first really noticed this in Kingdom Hearts 2, where just button mashing made your character do insane acrobatics all the while beating the daylights out of an enemy. It took no skill, just mash mash mash. Mash the Y button while your at it so you don't accidently miss some of those Y moments to. No skill required. Star Ocean suffers from this.

Star Ocean is developed by tri-Ace, not Square-Enix.

Also, SO4's battle system, characters and storyline are much better than SO3's (though I still love SO3). And timing your special attacks for Chain Combos is actually easy (at least for me it is.)

[Olethros]

You guys are missing out on a lot if you are only playing Atlus games. In general, if you are playing one company's games only, you are missing out. If you can't find any games out there that can hold your interest except for Atlus ones, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough.

And what exactly are they missing? In the past few years, Atlus published the majority of worthwhile RPGs on the systems that are good for RPGs. For a gamer who's into RPGs, PS2, DS, and PSP are where it's at, and Atlus handles NA publishing for enough developers to keep any serious RPG fan happy with the diversity and quality of their titles.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few specific examples of recent non-Atlus RPGs that are worth the time and money, but I don't think that would qualify as "missing out on a lot."

I think this could be dependant on the individual in question and their specific gaming habits. Is gaming your primary hobby and RPGs the main staple? Then you probably are missing out on some opportunities. Are you a dabbler whos just returning to gaming because someone else was doing it? Then most likely you're OK with limiting your choices. See where I'm going here?

[Vincent Alexander]

You guys are missing out on a lot if you are only playing Atlus games. In general, if you are playing one company's games only, you are missing out. If you can't find any games out there that can hold your interest except for Atlus ones, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough.

And what exactly are they missing? In the past few years, Atlus published the majority of worthwhile RPGs on the systems that are good for RPGs. For a gamer who's into RPGs, PS2, DS, and PSP are where it's at, and Atlus handles NA publishing for enough developers to keep any serious RPG fan happy with the diversity and quality of their titles.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few specific examples of recent non-Atlus RPGs that are worth the time and money, but I don't think that would qualify as "missing out on a lot."

I think this could be dependent on the individual in question and their specific gaming habits. Is gaming your primary hobby and RPGs the main staple? Then you probably are missing out on some opportunities. Are you a dabbler whos just returning to gaming because someone else was doing it? Then most likely you're OK with limiting your choices. See where I'm going here?
Agreed. It is like me being the sex addict I am, only doing the wheelbarrow all my life. Sure, the wheelbarrow is great and all, but what about the butterfly or reverse cowboy?

[Decept]

^Greatest analogy ever.

Your abrasiveness did not rub me the right way before as most rampant trolls don't, but now I like you. Also those quotes I can agree with.

That is why I like playing all kinds of games in all kinds of genres. You never know when you are going to be surprised by something that is fun, first and foremost. Reviewers, fellow gamers, and friends may tell you one thing, but it all boils down to fun. I can tell you there are some games in my library that may be hated by everyone, but I may love it because its fun for whatever reason.

They didn't ruin RPGs for me. I just watch their releases more closely and they usually fill my needs for a good, if not exceptional RPG.

[Olethros]

Your abrasiveness did not rub me the right way before as most rampant trolls don't, but now I like you. Also those quotes I can agree with.

Just so that there's no misunderstanding here, exactly who was this refering to? I'd like to vehemently refute this point but need to know exactly which of us I'm defending from being labeled a troll! :question:

[Decept]

Defend Vincent.

I was just going off his Sig.

I can edit that if I offended you, because that was not my intent for either of you.

[Rednusander]

Your abrasiveness did not rub me the right way before as most rampant trolls don't, but now I like you. Also those quotes I can agree with.

Just so that there's no misunderstanding here, exactly who was this refering to? I'd like to vehemently refute this point but need to know exactly which of us I'm defending from being labeled a troll! :question:

It's right there in Vince's signature. Please don't take this thread off topic, and that goes for all parties involved.

[Olethros]

Sorry. I have signatures turned off as they tend to be intrusive and annoying.

My bad, I should have looked into it more before I responded. I apologize.

Please, carry on....

EDIT: OK, this looks even worse since he quoted me in the sig....guess I'll have to leave them turned on again. Sigh.

[slayn]

And what exactly are they missing? In the past few years, Atlus published the majority of worthwhile RPGs on the systems that are good for RPGs. For a gamer who's into RPGs, PS2, DS, and PSP are where it's at, and Atlus handles NA publishing for enough developers to keep any serious RPG fan happy with the diversity and quality of their titles.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few specific examples of recent non-Atlus RPGs that are worth the time and money, but I don't think that would qualify as "missing out on a lot."

Pizza is a pretty awesome food so I'm just going to eat pizza from now on. I mean, sure, maybe one or two other types of food are good, but in the long run I'm not missing out on much!

Massive coronary here I come!

[dungeon_man]

And what exactly are they missing? In the past few years, Atlus published the majority of worthwhile RPGs on the systems that are good for RPGs. For a gamer who's into RPGs, PS2, DS, and PSP are where it's at, and Atlus handles NA publishing for enough developers to keep any serious RPG fan happy with the diversity and quality of their titles.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few specific examples of recent non-Atlus RPGs that are worth the time and money, but I don't think that would qualify as "missing out on a lot."

Pizza is a pretty awesome food so I'm just going to eat pizza from now on. I mean, sure, maybe one or two other types of food are good, but in the long run I'm not missing out on much!

Massive coronary here I come!


Pizza's not my only food, but I'm going to get a good pizza when I decide to eat one.

Atlus is like a collection of those local pizza shops all over town that have the good sauce, awesome crust, and fantastic homemade Italian sausage. Dept Heaven Tavern, Shin Megami Tensei's Deli, Etrian Pizza Odyssey, etc. You tell your friends how awesome these places are, but they keep eating Domino's because it's what they know. That's their loss.

I only eat pizza once or twice a month, so I make sure it's a treat when I do. I don't feel like I'm missing out by not eating Dominos, nor do I regret having never played Mana Khemia or the .hack games. However, one of my favorite shops has a Devil Summoner special showing up on the menu for a limited time, and another will soon be serving Knights in the Nightmare. Oh, and that little shop across town that I try every now and again has a delicious Seven topping Dragon pizza that I hear is quite delicious.

I just don't have room in my eating schedule for plain old Domino's.


I think this could be dependant on the individual in question and their specific gaming habits. Is gaming your primary hobby and RPGs the main staple? Then you probably are missing out on some opportunities. Are you a dabbler whos just returning to gaming because someone else was doing it? Then most likely you're OK with limiting your choices. See where I'm going here?

You may be reading too much into a post that was meant quite literally. I'm not recommending anybody only buy Atlus, nor am I contesting the idea that other developers also have good RPGs. I'm only contesting the idea that your average Joe Dicebag would miss out on "A LOT" by restricting himself to Atlus.

Most of everything else is terrible. Joe would miss out on a lot of crap. He could save hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours of his life by avoiding that garbage. He might find a cure for cancer with all that time he saved by not playing every junk RPG that came along.

I'm still in favor of playing any good RPG that comes out, regardless of publisher or developer. I am also of the opinion that less than half of the worthwhile RPGs in the past few years are non-Atlus titles. Less than half is not a lot when we're dealing with such small numbers.

[StrikeRaider]

I order Domino's because they deliver to my apartment instead of chilling outside my building...

I used to have more SE games than any others till I was enlightened to Atlus. Now I spread the word to everyone I know, if only they would listen.

[Vincent Alexander]

These pizza analogies have gone over my head.

[WhiteTiger2]

At least ATLUS actually cares about their work, unlike NISA who's starting to become... worse than ATLUS back in 1995, I dare say. NISA was pretty well thought of once, but I guess the management took a wrong turn sometime near their localized Atelier Iris 3 with the content butchering becoming apparent in later releases. The usual unoriginal jokes found in the Disgaea series and related titles might work for them, but not in GUST games. That's just me though, seeing as how GUST's titles seem more 'serious' in nature.

So I'm not the only one that's noticed an decrease in quality on NiSA titles.

Atlus certainly has raised my jrpg standards. The only FF I've even moderately enjoyed since I became one of the faithful has been twelve, and only the high quality classics from the likes of sega overworks (Valkyria chronicles, skies of arcadia, phantasy stars 1, 2, 4 and online) and level 5 (dark cloud series) manage to hold my intrest. It doesn't cause the same problem with american RPGs though. Bethesda and Bioware ruined those for me.

I just finished Valkyria Chronicles last night. Great game. I'm almost tempted to try out Skies of Arcadia.

EDIT: NM, it's for Dreamcast, and I don't have that.


A lot of people have noticed it, but people just don't do anything about it. In the case of Ar Tonelico 2, it became obvious to all-- if Mana Khemia didn't do it the first time. What's funny is that, for the most part, all the lines were either poorly translated, or completely off the mark. I wish ATLUS would take the GUST titles off NISA's hands so we could get actual quality in our merchandise.
In the case of X-edge, it seems that they're Americanizing the entire game, what with the name changes to English names and other unexplained name changes. It's not good at all for us, who actually enjoy GUST games.

[Pibbman]

Had it been Atlus doing the localizing for X-edge, I'd probably have gotten it. But because it's NiSA, I'm not even considering it.

[WhiteTiger2]

You're not alone on that one. Everyone's starting to dislike NISA now, if they didn't already with their previous GUST and NIS releases. I don't see why NISA took Rhapsody when ATLUS originally brought over the PSX version. So, in my case, NISA ruined RPGs for me.

[VMan]

You're not alone on that one. Everyone's starting to dislike NISA now, if they didn't already with their previous GUST and NIS releases. I don't see why NISA took Rhapsody when ATLUS originally brought over the PSX version. So, in my case, NISA ruined RPGs for me.

Well you have to assume it was for the same reason they took over localizing Disgaea, it IS THEIR parent company's IP. One of the main reasons NISA was formed was because NIS's popularity began to grow in the west (thanks in no small part to Atlus USA, of course) and they wanted to start handling the localizations, themselves.

I can understand you guys being upset about the quality of some of their products. I don't own NISA's version of Ar Tonelico II but I am aware of the its issues (both technical and lingual). However, I can be pretty forgiving of some mishaps from a company like NISA simply because, like Atlus, I respect and appreciate them for having the balls to put out titles a great portion of the industry would think thrice about (if even dare). And for a heavy importer like me, the localized products help me ease up on my wallet once and in while and that is always nice! :tongue:

I'm not ready to condemn NISA quite yet, and even though Idea Factory is close to getting put on my blacklist, I will buy Cross Edge at least for the cast and to support NISA.

[WhiteTiger2]

The part about the licenses being transferred makes sense. But that still does not excuse their total lack of quality control in AT2 and butchering of Rhapsody DS.

[WhiteTiger2]

The part about the licenses being transferred makes sense, but that still does not excuse their total lack of quality control in AT2 and butchering of Rhapsody DS. If "having the balls" to bring over games involves the cutting of content, the CHANGING of content without a legitimate reason, and the total lack of EDITING and TRANSLATION CHECKING, then I think something is absolutely wrong here.

Regarding Atlus, their minor blunders can be forgiven since it does NOT affect the game in its entirety, rendering it unplayable unlike the Raki glitch. I remember this one scene in Persona 3 where the text outgrew the text bubble. It wasn't harmful in any way, seeing as how it was still legible. Then Persona 4 came out and with it some minor changes. The most obvious change was the translation of Kuma to Teddie and his lame jokes. It was very excusable, since it was very logical. ATLUS kept the butt of the joke, even though the pun itself was adjusted for cultural reasons. If there were some other changes, then it was very minor and probably regarded the Social Link choices, which were then probably also adjusted due to cultural differences.

At least it wasn't changed completely, unlike NISA's AT2, which was a frequent perpetrator in that they probably translated it, and THEN decided to butcher it and 'make it funny'. Let me pull a line from some fans, who did a comparison.

The translation might not be perfect, but it's a major improvement in my opinion...

JP::そうだね！ボクもビックリしたよ。<LINE>
急にボクが言ってることがわかるようになるんだもの。
EN::Ｙｅａｈ，　ｉｔ’ｓ　ｇｒｅａｔ！　Ｉ　ｗａｓ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｂｏｒｄ
ｅｒｌｉｎｅ　ｅｍｏ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｆｏｒ　ａ　ｗｈｉｌｅ．
NEW:Ｙｅａｈ！　Ｉｔ　ａｌｓｏ　ｓｕｒｐｒｉｓｅｄ　ｍｅ．　Ｉｔ　ｗａｓ
　ｓｏ　ｓｕｄｄｅｎ　ｔｈａｔ　Ｉ　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｔａｌｋ　ａｎｄ　ｙｏｕ
　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ　ｍｅ．

JP::え？だって、スープが言葉喋るようにしたんじゃないの？<LINE>
だって前は、プーとしか言わなかったのに…
EN::Ｈｕｈ？　Ｂｕｔ　ｙｏｕ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｌｏｎｇ　ｅｎｏｕｇ
ｈ　ｂａｎｇｓ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｅｍｏ．．．
NEW:Ｅｈ？　Ｂｕｔ　ｈｏｗ　ｙｏｕ　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｓｔａｒｔ　ｔａｌｋｉｎ
ｇ　ｔａｌｋｉｎｇ　ｓｏ　ｗｅｌｌ？　Ｂｅｆｏｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｃｏｕｌｄｎ’
ｔ．．．

This type of show might work for NIS titles, but in all honesty it shouldn't be in GUST games-- since GUST games tend to be on the more 'serious' side.

I'll save my complaints about X-edge for later, though my list of problems has already started.

TL Credits to... aquagon or kensou I guess?

[VMan]

The part about the licenses being transferred makes sense, but that still does not excuse their total lack of quality control in AT2 and butchering of Rhapsody DS. If "having the balls" to bring over games involves the cutting of content, the CHANGING of content without a legitimate reason, and the total lack of EDITING and TRANSLATION CHECKING, then I think something is absolutely wrong here.

Regarding Atlus, their minor blunders can be forgiven since it does NOT affect the game in its entirety, rendering it unplayable unlike the Raki glitch. I remember this one scene in Persona 3 where the text outgrew the text bubble. It wasn't harmful in any way, seeing as how it was still legible. Then Persona 4 came out and with it some minor changes. The most obvious change was the translation of Kuma to Teddie and his lame jokes. It was very excusable, since it was very logical. ATLUS kept the butt of the joke, even though the pun itself was adjusted for cultural reasons. If there were some other changes, then it was very minor and probably regarded the Social Link choices, which were then probably also adjusted due to cultural differences.

At least it wasn't changed completely, unlike NISA's AT2, which was a frequent perpetrator in that they probably translated it, and THEN decided to butcher it and 'make it funny'. Let me pull a line from some fans, who did a comparison.

The translation might not be perfect, but it's a major improvement in my opinion...

JP::そうだね！ボクもビックリしたよ。<LINE>
急にボクが言ってることがわかるようになるんだもの。
EN::Ｙｅａｈ，　ｉｔ’ｓ　ｇｒｅａｔ！　Ｉ　ｗａｓ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｂｏｒｄ
ｅｒｌｉｎｅ　ｅｍｏ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｆｏｒ　ａ　ｗｈｉｌｅ．
NEW:Ｙｅａｈ！　Ｉｔ　ａｌｓｏ　ｓｕｒｐｒｉｓｅｄ　ｍｅ．　Ｉｔ　ｗａｓ
　ｓｏ　ｓｕｄｄｅｎ　ｔｈａｔ　Ｉ　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｔａｌｋ　ａｎｄ　ｙｏｕ
　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ　ｍｅ．

JP::え？だって、スープが言葉喋るようにしたんじゃないの？<LINE>
だって前は、プーとしか言わなかったのに…
EN::Ｈｕｈ？　Ｂｕｔ　ｙｏｕ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｌｏｎｇ　ｅｎｏｕｇ
ｈ　ｂａｎｇｓ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｅｍｏ．．．
NEW:Ｅｈ？　Ｂｕｔ　ｈｏｗ　ｙｏｕ　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｓｔａｒｔ　ｔａｌｋｉｎ
ｇ　ｔａｌｋｉｎｇ　ｓｏ　ｗｅｌｌ？　Ｂｅｆｏｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｃｏｕｌｄｎ’
ｔ．．．

This type of show might work for NIS titles, but in all honesty it shouldn't be in GUST games-- since GUST games tend to be on the more 'serious' side.

I'll save my complaints about X-edge for later, though my list of problems has already started.

TL Credits to... aquagon or kensou I guess?

Well I'd have to agree the "NEW" lines are a much closer/accurate/more serious translation. To be fair to NISA's translator(s), though, as I mentioned in another thread (on the topic of dubs), a translation is very much an interpretation and this is a great example of how a translator may interpret the dialogue in another language when trying to convey the character's personality. This is great to point out to people who are picky with localizations and prefer subtitles, you can see how the same line can be interpreted in different ways depending on how you view the character's personality. NISA was obviously trying to implant some humor, while you, yourself said it should be more serious. The two translations reflect that. So in the essence of translation as interpretation, neither are "wrong". However yes, the latter lines are more literal (and much closer to how I personally interpreted them, I admit)

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying I'm ignoring some of the things NISA has done nor am I completely excusing them. Things getting lost in translation (often as a result of interpretation) as well as various changes due to the nature of localization are major reasons why I opt to play many games in their native format. So I'm not a fan of it, either. I'm just saying, despite these issues, I have a soft heart for NISA for the reasons I stated in my previous post. My appreciation for them allows me to forgive them and continue to support them, but I'm not ignorant to these issues, either.

[WhiteTiger2]

...a translation is very much an interpretation and this is a great example of how a translator may interpret the dialogue in another language when trying to convey the character's personality.

I appreciate your efforts to defend them, but even they fail at localizing "voice" in their translation. Let me pull more from the pool:


Here’s a sample from a scene where Croix has switched to hyper-formal register because he is upset (with himself or with Cloche; it’s up to the player to guess):

JP::いや、そんな無理なさらなくてもいいですよ。
EN::Thanks,　but　no　thanks.
NEW:No,　you　need　not　trouble　yourself　further.

While the English “thanks but no thanks” is certainly understandable in this case, it is distant from the original meaning and, more importantly, terribly rude. It’s what a modern American might say to a stranger when miffed, but it’s not what a Knight of Pastalia would ever say to the Lady Cloche under any circumstance.


~credits: fetjuel

In this regard, they completely took out Croix's humility and replaced it with another voice. Sure, things are getting lost in the translations, but more often than not the translated lines stick close to the original as much as possible, tone of voice included. NISA, however, did not in this aspect. At all. The same can be said about the "EMO' lines which were completely out of character. Someone noticed that at times it looked like the dialogue was carefully thought out by a senior translator, but at other times it was rushed by another. In this, I agree. But even so, they had a lot of time to fix it because of the multiple delays. But did they? Not at all. That's one thing I can't forgive---the lack of work ethic.

[Rednusander]

I'm going to go ahead and lock this. It's no one's fault; the topic of the thread was ambiguous to begin with, and we've strayed so far from the point with pizza analogies and NIS bashing that I don't feel it serves its purpose anymore. If you still feel any of this needs to be discussed, please locate currently existing threads or begin your own anew.

Thank you.