Eternal Punishment reprint!

[Sei]

Atlus is reprinting Persona 2 EP available exclusively at Amazon.

Good purchase to go with innocent sin, also, an awesome game on it's own right

US:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WLZ7?ie=UTF8&tag=atlus-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00004WLZ7

CA:

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00004WLZ7?ie=UTF8&tag=atlus-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00004WLZ7

Unfortunately the Visa code doesn't seem to work with this game, lemme know if anyone from Ca finds out otherwise.

Day Now.

[firehydra2k]

That's great, but based on my understanding, this is the sequel to the first game. Should I hunt for the first one and play it before I try playing the reprint?

[malismag]

Thank you guys, seriously.

[Hayato]

The first game is Japanese-only, though there's a full script translation online.

Don't know how much time you want to spend checking the computer while you play, though. (Assuming you have no knowledge of Japanese, if this is incorrect, I'm sorry. D: )

ANYWAY

THIS GAME

is the reason why none of my friends are getting christmas presents this year

[Nightrayne13x]

That's great, but based on my understanding, this is the sequel to the first game. Should I hunt for the first one and play it before I try playing the reprint?

The first one (Innocent Sin) was never released outside of Japan. Eternal Punishment is indeed the sequel to IS but does a pretty good job of making itself sort of a standalone (aka you will be able to understand the game without IS knowledgement) do to a ...well.......I don't want to spoil anything about the events from IS so I will stop there.

Innocent Sin though is available as a (very well done) fan made english patch that was recently made just to note. I can't go into details anymore about it but I think there is a topic about it already on the forums.

That being said, I REALLY want a copy of this so I am hoping it will still be available early Saturday morning due to money constraints of why I can't order immediately.

Thanks Atlus! How about an official Innocent Sin release and a "REAL" version of Revelations: Persona (with non crappy translations and snow queen quest activated). Who am I kidding though, Atlus has already made 2008 the best year of my life :)

[Gorgon]

Why does it say that it is compatible with PS3? Shoudn't they make it clear that it is only compatible with BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE PS3s?

This can lead some people in error.

EDIT: ups, I forgot that all PS3s are compatible with PS1 games. Sorry about that.

[slayn]

Why does it say that it is compatible with PS3? Shoudn't they make it clear that it is only compatible with BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE PS3s?

This can lead some people in error.

All PS3s can play Playstation games.

[Owenazuris]

This is great news.

I had Persona 2 when it was released, and then foolishly sold it for store credit months later.

Been trying to get it again for awhile, but never wanted to pay the amount that I would have to to get it off Ebay.

Now I don't have to.

[jj984jj]

OMG YES! Already bought and paid for. :D

You need to add something worth at least a cent to use the visa code on amazon.ca, I added Project Sylpheed for the hell of it.

[Olethros]

This is great news.

I had Persona 2 when it was released, and then foolishly sold it for store credit months later.

Been trying to get it again for awhile, but never wanted to pay the amount that I would have to to get it off Ebay.

Now I don't have to.

This is why I NEVER trade anything back in. Particularly considering what they offer you in return is usually a pittance. Sure, the collection gets large and unruly, but that's part of the fun.

[dragonlife29]

Seriously ^ I love my collection.

I'm glad I already have the game, but good news nonetheless for those that don't already own it! :D

Damn Zodiac Club >_>;

[mymerrilymemory]

I was lucky enough to get an original copy back in the day... but I'm definitely harass- I mean convincing my friends to get this.
I was wondering when Atlus was going to do a reprint- given the success of P3. Prices on ebay sky-rocketed for it the month after P3 came out.

[Sei]

OMG YES! Already bought and paid for. :D

You need to add something worth at least a cent to use the visa code on amazon.ca, I added Project Sylpheed for the hell of it.

Stupid me totally and completely forgot about that, thanks!

[Flußkönig]

$40.00 is a little steep*, but I guess it is worth it if you haven't played EP before. Definitely play Innocent Sin beforehand though since many things that are referenced in EP just don't make sense without it.

*I am pretty sure that GQD did a reprint 3-4 years ago (maybe longer?) and Gamestop ended up getting a bunch of copies out of the deal. They were going for $29.99.

[Kakizaki]

I will probably buy a back up copy.

[slayn]

It's kind of mind-boggling that anyone would bitch about the price since you're getting a new copy for, at the very least, 33% less than you'd pay on the secondary market.

[dragonlife29]

*I am pretty sure that GQD did a reprint 3-4 years ago (maybe longer?) and Gamestop ended up getting a bunch of copies out of the deal. They were going for $29.99.Interesting! No wonder I got mine for that price on eBay--I thought I had gotten lucky.

I think it's the fact that it's a PS1 game that people are a little turned off by the price ^ There will be some that think it's a steal, so hopefully they outweigh the others.

[unknown]

I'd be all over this if I wasn't low on cash :(

[Flußkönig]

It's kind of mind-boggling that anyone would bitch about the price since you're getting a new copy for, at the very least, 33% less than you'd pay on the secondary market.

Who exactly is bitching about the price? Maybe you are trying to start #### or something, but there is no need to turn a simple discussion into something negative. I already own a copy so I am not really worried about how much they charge.

[jeffx]

I like this new Atlus trend of not shortchanging their Canadian customers anymore.

Well done!!

[slayn]

Who exactly is bitching about the price? Maybe you are trying to start #### or something, but there is no need to turn a simple discussion into something negative. I already own a copy so I am not really worried about how much they charge.

I wasn't specifically referring to you so calm down. I've seen this announced in several other places and a lot of the responses are basically "wtf 40 bucks for a psx game RIP OFF!!" without pausing to consider that the game regularly goes for $60, used, on eBay.

[Sei]

I like this new Atlus trend of not shortchanging their Canadian customers anymore.

Well done!!

Quoted for truth. I was pleasantly surprised. 36 shipped with a hori screen protector :D

[Flußkönig]

I wasn't specifically referring to you so calm down. I've seen this announced in several other places and a lot of the responses are basically "wtf 40 bucks for a psx game RIP OFF!!" without pausing to consider that the game regularly goes for $60, used, on eBay.


It isn't unreasonable for people to think that $40 is way to expensive for a psx game. Psx games on the Ps3 store are usually around $5.99 or less.

[Sei]

^ That's game only without box or manual or disc though :(.

I don't think I mind the price, especially if you have a PS3, so you can run it on your Psp as well.

[slayn]

It isn't unreasonable for people to think that $40 is way to expensive for a psx game. Psx games on the Ps3 store are usually around $5.99 or less.

And if this had been released on the PSN, I'd agree with you. However, you can't fairly make that comparison since the PSN prices do not take into account all the costs associated with making a physical copy of a game (materials, pressing, printing, shipping, etc.).

[Flußkönig]

^ That's game only without box or manual or disc though :(.

I don't think I mind the price, especially if you have a PS3, so you can run it on your Psp as well.

Yeah true, if you are a collector and care about bonus discs and all that other jazz it seems like a good deal. But if you don't I can totally understand people thinking that $39.99 was a little pricey.

[slayn]

Looks like it's already sold out at Amazon.com.

[jeffx]

lol amazon.ca filler item lol (http://www.amazon.ca/Wii-Fit-Recyclable-Reusable-Bag/dp/B001ATJDQM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1226610812&sr=1-1)

[Sei]

Heh. I prefer my Hori screen protector but I'll keep that one in mind :). Too awesome.

[jeffx]

I already have like 4 spare hori protectors... can't remember who it was but some online import store threw them in one of my orders, probably as a mistake.

they're good protectors though. but once you have it on there's no need for the others.

[Neveryll]

Ummmmm am I missing something?!?!?

When I click on the link to Amazon US the only new copy I see there is for 175 dollars?!? Is there a tab I'm missing? I always wanted to add this one to my collection but before I realized such it was already at an astronomical amount for a guy with a family to take care of. I'd be willing to spend some money but that is waaaaaaaaay outta my range lol.

[unknown]

Wow that was fast.

[slayn]

Ummmmm am I missing something?!?!?


What you missed was your chance. It's sold out.

[jeffx]

too late Neveryll. There are still some on the Canadian website if you can hook it up with someone.

that said, thanks to Atlus for announcing it on their mailing list first, but the thing is that now it seems everyone is on there, including most big gaming blogs... so it's not so much for the fans anymore.

maybe you guys could setup a second, ACTUAL faithful mailing list for your regular message board dwellers, so they could get first dibs on future reprints. I imagine that's maybe a lot to ask, but the news rapidly spread on CAG (I'm sure some folks bought a dozen copies to resell), leaving out your actual fans.

[Flußkönig]

^ It might also be a good idea to limit sales to one game per amazon account or something. As Jeffx already mentioned, I have a sneaking feeling that resellers probably snagged a bunch of copies.

[Sei]

I guess they thought it was a good price :). Sold out at .ca now too.

One per account wouldn't do anything. Maybe 1 per credit card, but I don't think they can check for that.

[QBasic]

Whatever the case, this wasn't a golden chance for the fans or anything of the sort. It was just bull####. A chance for douchebag resellers to make a small fortune.

Way to go Atlus, you troopers you.

[jeffx]

One per account would seriously slow down/deter hoarders... but I'm not sure Atlus can force that upon Amazon.

After all... they're in this for the moniez!

[Sei]

Whatever the case, this wasn't a golden chance for the fans or anything of the sort. It was just bull####. A chance for douchebag resellers to make a small fortune.

Way to go Atlus, you troopers you.

I'm a fan and I got one and a Hori screen protector. I'm happy and grateful!

[Nightrayne13x]

Scanning through some gaming blogs and message boards out there...there are indeed people bragging how they bought multiple copies and going to resell for 100+ dollars. I appreciate that atlus may have good motives but this really only helped fuel the fires for resellers to screw the legit fans into paying a godly amount for a new copy.

Im personally hoping that amazon.com will get a restock at the earliest 3am saturday est so I am able to purchase one with the money in my account. I'm getting P4, social links expansion pack, and doublejump guild so getting p2 would complete my holiday joy ;)

[jeffx]

Well on the plus side, easy money for Atlus. Good for them.
Although I have it and enjoyed playing for countless hours, I believe a Dual Hearts reprint should go next.

[GFSummoner]

Thanks for the hope, Nightrayne13x!

[Sei]

Well on the plus side, easy money for Atlus. Good for them.
Although I have it and enjoyed playing for countless hours, I believe a Dual Hearts reprint should go next.

I just bought that used but haven't played it yet, how is it?

[Crabman]

Damn. I come home six hours later and it's gone :(

[jeffx]

fun fun fun light hearted Action RPG reminescent of Falcom's 3D games.
bit of a platformer as well, Super Mario 64-style. seriously a charming game.

[Sei]

Nice, I'll give it a shot when I finish IS.

You know, I'm sorta saddened at how quickly this ran out. I made the announcement here in hopes that whoever came to the forum and didn't newsletter would get a copy but too many forum people didn't :(.

I had this feeling this would happen, too.

Hopefully Atlus will increase the reprint or do it in batches, or some such.

[cj iwakura]

They didn't put a limit on purchases per person? That was just stupid.

[Crabman]

Atlus sent out an email. I thought it was gonna be like "MOAR Persona 2!!", but it was for that new DS RPG My World, My Way :(

[syl]

They didn't put a limit on purchases per person? That was just stupid.

Agreed!
I just came back from grocery shopping and found out that I missed this rare oppurtunity.
Oh well, at least I'll keep that beautiful email as a reminder of MY eternal punishment.

P.S.: Please reprint some more!

[jeffx]

GO FOR IT RIGHT NOW GUYS... STILL SOME COPIES ON AMAZON.COM (http://www.amazon.com/Persona-2-Eternal-Punishment-Playstation/dp/B00004WLZ7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1226611740&sr=1-1)

[Divals]

Blah, depression. I was at work when the announcement was made and it's already sold out when I get home. Damn people buying multiple copies, it looks like I'll never get to play this game...

edit: ZOMG! BUYING NOWS!!111one

[GFSummoner]

Order up, y'all. They will be back in stock on Novemeber 15, so pre-order now on Amazon!

[jeffx]

about 120 left!

[Crabman]

I wish Amazon.com would ship to Canada ;_;

GF: where did you hear this?

[GFSummoner]

I wish Amazon.com would ship to Canada ;_;

GF: where did you hear this?

I was just lurking on Amazon, after missing the first wave of reprints .and that is what the order said.

[syl]

Yeah, I'm having the same problem. Just another day in my eternal punishment.

[Nightrayne13x]

Ordered!!!!

If it says in stock on the 15th...but choosing 2 day shipping and arriving on the 17th (which indicates it will ship on the 15th), you think my card wont be charged till at least saturday 3am? If they do before I'm screwed lol

See atlus...I'm risking my financial life for you. But I guess risks and sacrifices are needed if our relationship is gonna work. If it doesn't I WANT A DIVORCE!!!

All joking aside, hopefully they dont charge me till 30 hours late lol.

[Evila]

Ah... I am so torn. Why did this reprint have to happen now?! I've been wanting to buy Eternal Punishment, but I'm so broke right now. Still... I could give up my money now and not pay out the wazoo to some overpriced reseller later. :V

Regardless, reprints are always cool, so thanks for that.

[iammako3]

*Finally* got to use my $5 off coupon from ages ago (forgot to use it in the Persona 4 pack). Um, I guess they're randomly putting it back on Amazon, since I just ordered it 10 minutes ago and it was in stock with no problem. Either way, I'm happy! Now I won't have an awkward gap between my Persona 1 and Persona 3 games. ^_^

[Neveryll]

Well my hope is that it will go something like this...

Atlus Retail Lead : So how many of those Persona 2 copies do you think we'll be stuck with after the holidays?

Atlus Amazon contact: Ummm sir. They sold out in like 5 hours...

Atlus Retail Lead: What!?!? Well let's print up some more!

Atlus Retail Production guy: You want us to what? That would mean I have to contact the factory and the printer for another batch. And then redo some figures...

Atlus Retail Lead : Your point?!?!

Atlus Retail Production guy: Um yeah. You heard him. Lets get going on this....

Atlus Retail lead: And we'll keep doing that until it doesn't sell out in the first day....

[jeffx]

dude they're still in stock.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I am SO glad I got my copy when they did the first reprint.

One of these days I may actually get through it!

[thealchemistoftime]

just barely got it

[syl]

How about a little more love for Canada?
The same reseller has been pitching his copy of EP for $104.99 on Amazon.ca.
I couldn't order from Amazom.com.
Man this sucks!

[ALUNDRA]

dude they're still in stock.

NO there not.:mad:

[GFSummoner]

hopefully, they will re-stock.
Just keep checking.

[ALUNDRA]

This so reminds me of the Izuna 2 screw up. I actually had it in my cart clicked buy and they told me they where out.

[slayn]

This so reminds me of the Izuna 2 screw up.

Are you talking about the poster snafu? Because this is nothing like that.

Post 420

[ALUNDRA]

This so reminds me of the Izuna 2 screw up.

Are you talking about the poster snafu? Because this is nothing like that.

Post 420

I'm talking about me being mad . but maybe they'll fix this up too.:confused:

[rainking187]

Maybe I'm a little bitter right now, but I'm hoping Atlus reprints enough of these that the hoarders choke on their extra copies.

[syl]

I just spoke w/an Amazon.ca rep & he claims that Amazon.ca never received any reprints nor did they know if they were going to receive any.
Definately no loving for Canadians.

[Iris]

I got home from work, screamed in joy at the email in my inbox...and then got there and they were sold out.

hopes and dreams: crushed. :|

[Hayato]

I just spoke w/an Amazon.ca rep & he claims that Amazon.ca never received any reprints nor did they know if they were going to receive any.
Definately no loving for Canadians.


But. I just bought a copy off .ca a few hours ago.

[syl]

Sucks to be me...
I guess...
Just sucks to be me...

[Sei]

I got one too and so did Jeff I think.

Keep refreshing, more might pop up, I know they did in .com

[rapoon]

what a ####ing sham

[rainking187]

It's pretty disappointing that they would send out this email to the faithful and then not limit the number of copies you could buy. Kind of ruined things for the faithful when this was posted on every video game blog and deal website a few minutes later.

[syl]

I got one too and so did Jeff I think.

Keep refreshing, more might pop up, I know they did in .com

Yeah, anyway it's just a game.

[QBasic]

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74170&postcount=20

[syl]

Thanx!

[Tsuko]

Why does it say that it is compatible with PS3? Shoudn't they make it clear that it is only compatible with BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE PS3s?

This can lead some people in error.

All PS3s can play Playstation games.

No they cant, 40gb and the current 80gb models are unable to play PS1 games because they are just a 40gb model with a bigger HDD, also The 80gb PS3 that was packaged with MGS4 were the last of the ones that were able to play PS1 games,

[evilkoala666]

I am SO glad I got my copy when they did the first reprint.

One of these days I may actually get through it!
Yeah, I remember about 2 years ago I saw a bunch of copies in Game Stop, and then I did some research and saw they were reprints. I bought one copy, but I didn't realize it was still hard to find after that because I kept seeing it in all the Game Stops.

[GuardianE]

Why does it say that it is compatible with PS3? Shoudn't they make it clear that it is only compatible with BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE PS3s?

This can lead some people in error.

All PS3s can play Playstation games.

No they cant, 40gb and the current 80gb models are unable to play PS1 games because they are just a 40gb model with a bigger HDD, also The 80gb PS3 that was packaged with MGS4 were the last of the ones that were able to play PS1 games,


All PS3s can play Playstation One games. Not all PS3s can play Playstation Two games. Whether you have a 20, 40, 60, or 80, you can pop in your classic PSOne games and play them on your shiny PS3.

[dbhashman93]

Seriously disappointing...I checked Amazon as soon as I saw the email and it was already sold out (US). I hope Atlus realizes the demand and prints up more copies.

[sora4126]

I checked as soon as I got the e-mail and it was already sold out...

[Anza]

Ugh this sucks! I just get home 30mins ago from working my ass off for freaking Wrath of the Lich king launch and this brightens my day... until the freaking sold out in 4 freaking hours ;_;

Seriously if your going to reprint it have enough for everyone and not just the bloody resellers who make a living off this kinda thing!

[ryne11]

Darn. The deal had started and ended hours before I got home. Oh well. I will just have to hope another one comes my way that ain't $140+

[animegramma]

Yeah, what the hank? I got home late and started screaming when I checked my inbox, but when I got to Amazon it was already sold out. Apparently extremely limited means like 50 copies.

[Camanche]

This is seriously disappointing. So there will be more in stock on the 15th, a Saturday? Seems a little weird to me. Atlus, why was this reprint so miniscule? Or if it's someone being a hoardhole, well, I sense a mob. :(

[Hayato]

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74170&postcount=20

I've seen mostly ridiculously terrible reviews for that site. I'm usually pretty lax in my spending habits since it's just money in the end, but. I don't think I'd even shop there after all the wank I've heard about that place. :\

[Darkecho]

Got home from school today.

Saw it on Amazon.

Borrowed credit card and account info from mom.

Went to laptop.

Sold out because I forgot to add it to my cart.

I feel like such a freaking idiot now. >_>

[Charlie]

What the hell? I saw this at the library this afternoon and I was totally going to fork over the $40 for it. There's no way I would place an online order from a public computer, but by the time I got home after work, it was all gone. More please.

[DarkShear]

wow lame sold out really quick!

[Tears of Ash]

I think I can assume why, but it would've been cool if this was put up as Classic PSone on the PSN. But Atlus would've made less money doing that, since you can't sell off a digital download for exorbitant prices!

[sassygirlcool]

i'm so disappointed too ;_;
i was gonna pick it up tonite but now it's gone....

[MalikHalo]

This is seriously disappointing. So there will be more in stock on the 15th, a Saturday? Seems a little weird to me.

Where'd you see that?

[ashtonv]

THANK YOU ATLUST USA!!!

(I was expecting ~something~ to happen on the Persona 2 front next year sometime, like after the P4 fires bagan to burn low (and most likely on PSN), but this was radically unexpected, but not unwelcome, at this time and is, as things stand, a wonderful birthday present for me! So, I thank you again, greatly and long from the bottom of the pit of despair of my heart ;-)

[Gemini]

But Atlus would've made less money doing that, since you can't sell off a digital download for exorbitant prices!
They can probably sell more copies that way, tho, which would balance the lower price. Considering they sold out all copies in less than a day, I'd say they'd make a fortune on the PSN too.

PS: I wonder what Atlus US'd do if somebody were to release a translation for Soul Hackers. :p

[unknown]

They'd probably do nothing.

I would start crying tears of joy...probably.

[Sei]

But Atlus would've made less money doing that, since you can't sell off a digital download for exorbitant prices!
They can probably sell more copies that way, tho, which would balance the lower price. Considering they sold out all copies in less than a day, I'd say they'd make a fortune on the PSN too.

PS: I wonder what Atlus US'd do if somebody were to release a translation for Soul Hackers. :p

Why, know of someone that could do such a thing? ;)

IS is most awesome. Again, thanks.

[Gemini]

Why, know of someone that could do such a thing? ;)
Not really. :D I was just playing "what if...".

[QBasic]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

[konakona]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

[slayn]

Down with the corporate machine!


It seems you cannot post in all caps.

[Gemini]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.
Well, that was just a translator replying to an inconvenient question. It's the marketing office that actually decides what to do, and I guess they could care less what the staff said at the Anime Expo.

[Zachalmighty]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

I definitely called that price scalping!

[Futomimi]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

Ummmm, it's not like it's Atlus doing the scalping... This happens with pretty much any rare game that gets reprinted.

[QBasic]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

Ummmm, it's not like it's Atlus doing the scalping... This happens with pretty much any rare game that gets reprinted.
Not entirely...Nocturne, DDS, and the original P3 now have enough reprints to dismiss such thoughts...

Seeing as P2 is a PS1 game...it might not be so simple. But, if MGS could do it...it can too.

[sora4126]

Seeing as P2 is a PS1 game...it might not be so simple. But, if MGS could do it...it can too.

That would be true if P2 was as mainstream as MGS.

[slayn]

Konami has a lot more money than Atlus to spend on reprints, and a much higher likelihood that that money will be recouped via sales. There's a break point on supply and demand, and for a company of Atlus' size, it's much safer to err on the side that won't leave them sitting on top of a pile of games they can't sell anymore because demand dried up.

This is also a contributing reason as to why we'll never see old games, like Innocent Sin, get a translation (assuming something like a PSP port doesn't happen): it's unlikely Atlus would recoup the losses incurred during the localization and production phases.

[thealchemistoftime]

^yes sadly

[Futomimi]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

Ummmm, it's not like it's Atlus doing the scalping... This happens with pretty much any rare game that gets reprinted.
Not entirely...Nocturne, DDS, and the original P3 now have enough reprints to dismiss such thoughts...

Seeing as P2 is a PS1 game...it might not be so simple. But, if MGS could do it...it can too.

What the hell did that have to do with what I said? All three of those titles were scalped after reprints, except P3.. and that is because P3 isn't rare. Jesus Christ, read posts before you reply to them.

[Crabman]

I'm personally just saddened, not bitchy; after all, any reprint is better than no reprint!

(still hoping for more copies!)

[konakona]

Didn't they say some at an anime fest that IS was too...dated or something now?

=_= Yet they go and reprint P2...Yeah. Sure.

As far as I'm concerned, they didn't reprint anything, nor did they do any of their fans a favor. I'm seeing a copy of this "reprint" on half.ebay for $170; this is ridiculous. If there's any justice in this world, Atlus would do us a proper reprint. This act of "game scalping" for the purpose of self-profit is not something to sit back on and ignore.

Ummmm, it's not like it's Atlus doing the scalping... This happens with pretty much any rare game that gets reprinted.
Not entirely...Nocturne, DDS, and the original P3 now have enough reprints to dismiss such thoughts...

Seeing as P2 is a PS1 game...it might not be so simple. But, if MGS could do it...it can too.

What the hell did that have to do with what I said? All three of those titles were scalped after reprints, except P3.. and that is because P3 isn't rare. Jesus Christ, read posts before you reply to them.

His response makes perfect sense. Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga were reprinted; now you can get a brand new copy off Amazon for $44.99 and $39.99 respectively. If Atlus were to give Persona 2 the same treatment, it'd solve the scalping problem and I'd be happy with a new copy I bought at MSRP as well as content on knowing the money will be going back to Atlus and not some self-profit joe. However, I have no knowledge of whether a mass repint of Eternal Punishment would profit Atlus at all.

[Kakizaki]

^I don't know if I would say that his point was justified. EP also did have a reprint back in 2005 that did indeed cause the market prices to take a dip for a considerable length of time. I saw copies of the reprinted EPs from 2005 sitting in both GSs' and mom and pop shops for quite a while (over a year past in some instances) with little to no price escalation.

I know this sounds harsh, but how many times can people blame Atlus if they didn't jump on the train during the previous reprint?

[slayn]

I know this sounds harsh, but how many times can people blame Atlus if they didn't jump on the train during the previous reprint?

They'll just complain that they didn't know about the previous reprint.

Of course, that's not Atlus' fault, either, but you can't please everyone.

[dbhashman93]

I don't think people are generally blaming Atlus, they are blaming whoever bought up copies to resell. For many of us there wasn't an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon this time around as on the west coast the copies went up at noon and were sold out around 4, leaving no time for people who are busy during the weekday to even check their emails. It seems the general feeling is that since the copies sold out so quickly there isn't much risk to Atlus in printing up another batch which would both help to undermine the resellers and be a huge favor for the fanbase.

Perhaps if another batch is printed it should go on sale during the time people tend to be at home (and I will definitely be checking Amazon tomorrow just in case that Nov. 15 comment is accurate).

[Kakizaki]

^Sensible people like youreself might not be blaming Atlus, but read some of the other posts in the numerous EP reprint threads floating around here.

[GFSummoner]

Konami has a lot more money than Atlus to spend on reprints, and a much higher likelihood that that money will be recouped via sales. There's a break point on supply and demand, and for a company of Atlus' size, it's much safer to err on the side that won't leave them sitting on top of a pile of games they can't sell anymore because demand dried up.

This is also a contributing reason as to why we'll never see old games, like Innocent Sin, get a translation (assuming something like a PSP port doesn't happen): it's unlikely Atlus would recoup the losses incurred during the localization and production phases.

That was very intelligent!

[Kaplan]

I don't think people are generally blaming Atlus, they are blaming whoever bought up copies to resell. For many of us there wasn't an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon this time around as on the west coast the copies went up at noon and were sold out around 4, leaving no time for people who are busy during the weekday to even check their emails. It seems the general feeling is that since the copies sold out so quickly there isn't much risk to Atlus in printing up another batch which would both help to undermine the resellers and be a huge favor for the fanbase.

Perhaps if another batch is printed it should go on sale during the time people tend to be at home (and I will definitely be checking Amazon tomorrow just in case that Nov. 15 comment is accurate).

I'm blaming myself. I received the email, checked the Amazon page and added it to my "saved" list so I wouldn't forget to order it after work - but by then it was too late.

Out of frustration and disappointment for not ordering it right away, I placed my pre-order for the Persona 4 Social Link Expansion pack, and swung by the local Gamestop tp grab Eternal Poison. I had suddenly felt an irrational fear that those would all sellout on me too.

[konakona]

^Sensible people like youreself might not be blaming Atlus, but read some of the other posts in the numerous EP reprint threads floating around here.

It's only natural to be angry when we couldn't get what we wanted. A lot of us felt cheated, but if this were truly the case for the commotion, then I don't think there should have been any reprinting in the first place.

[Hamel]

^Sensible people like youreself might not be blaming Atlus, but read some of the other posts in the numerous EP reprint threads floating around here.

It's only natural to be angry when we couldn't get what we wanted. A lot of us felt cheated, but if this were truly the case for the commotion, then I don't think there should have been any reprinting in the first place.

Why not?some people did get a copy of the reprints so they are happy with it
The fact that you didn't get one doesn't mean there souldn't have made the reprints it just means you ran out of luck

[Kakizaki]

^Sensible people like youreself might not be blaming Atlus, but read some of the other posts in the numerous EP reprint threads floating around here.

It's only natural to be angry when we couldn't get what we wanted. A lot of us felt cheated, but if this were truly the case for the commotion, then I don't think there should have been any reprinting in the first place.

I will try and explain this a little better once more. People are upset. I can understand that. I wanted a back up copy and a copy for my g/f, but claiming Atlus made a mistake with a small print run and looking at the DDS and Nocturne reprints as examples are totally off base. Here is why:

Persona EP came out in the states in / around December 2000. It then received a sizable reprint around summer of 2005. Five year gap. Nocturne came out in the U.S. in October of 2004 -- DDS followed about 6 months later in April of 2005. Both of these titles saw sizable reprints in spring of 2008. Roughly a 4 year gap. People are talking about how easy it is to obtain Nocturne and DDS. Well, NS, it was just reprinted a few short months ago. When EP was first reprinted I was able to find copies for the next year easily. Are you seeing parallels yet? You can make similar comparisons regarding initial prices being charged for all of the reprints by E-tailers as well.

My point is this; it really isn't fair, or accurate, to say Atlus got one reprint right and not the other. We really can't make a comparison until several more years pass from the Nocturne / DDS reprint. Who knows how difficult it will be to obtain those titles then or if Atlus will reprint either of them?

[Futomimi]

Nocturne and DDS JUST got reprinted. In 6 months, maybe less, they will probably be going up in price yet again.

^Sensible people like youreself might not be blaming Atlus, but read some of the other posts in the numerous EP reprint threads floating around here.

It's only natural to be angry when we couldn't get what we wanted. A lot of us felt cheated, but if this were truly the case for the commotion, then I don't think there should have been any reprinting in the first place.

So you're saying that, because some of you didn't get the reprints in time, there should have been no reprints at all? That's childish.

[konakona]

What I really meant to get at, is from my perspective, it did not FEEL like a reprint. It felt more like a ticket sale for a band that sells out in hours and we were only informed the last minute. The Atlus exclusive newsletter was very misleading. "...offering curious fans one last chance to see where the franchise has been," was an in-your-face tease advertisement giving false hope. Credit goes where it's due since it DID say 'Extremely limited availability' and 'ultra limited availability' when the thought of self-profit came to greed's mind. Let's say I did get lucky and got a copy though. I don't think I would care for those who didn't get a copy; this is how I am seeing it now. Even if you didn't get a copy, this game's value to one is not the same value as it is to another. If Atlus didn't send out that newsletter and create a pretense of false hope, I don't think I would be here feeling like I do. Perhaps it would have been better for me to have never seen that newsletter. This is all based on my opinion.

I will drawback on what I said about how there shouldn't have been a reprint.

[Sei]

Yeah. A lot of people got copies of a game they really wanted. And at any rate the reprint should lower prices in Ebay/Amazon.ca across the board.

I really appreciate Atlus doing this. Sure, they make money, but it does show that they are in tune with their fans. This year they have reprinted three very hard to find, very sought after games. I don't see a lot of companies doing that.

And even today, Nocturne is going for 44.90 http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-b5te-71-43-49-en-84-j-70-bug.html and so is DDS http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-b5te-71-43-49-en-84-j-70-2ts5.html (both awesome games that whoever is missing should most certainly get). Both of these went for a lot, lot more before the reprint. Odds are the situation will be similar with Eternal Punishment, but as far as I know, the games haven't even been shipped yet. A little bit more patience may be in order to tell whether Atlus really messed up.

So I'm quite grateful, thank you Atlus.

[QBasic]

^I don't know if I would say that his point was justified. EP also did have a reprint back in 2005 that did indeed cause the market prices to take a dip for a considerable length of time. I saw copies of the reprinted EPs from 2005 sitting in both GSs' and mom and pop shops for quite a while (over a year past in some instances) with little to no price escalation.

I know this sounds harsh, but how many times can people blame Atlus if they didn't jump on the train during the previous reprint?
Yeah, but was Atlus big in the US back then? :3

We can both agree that their first, HUGE major hit stateside was Nocturne. It garnered Atlus a reputation and an audience.

With rep and peeps comes demand. Makes sense, yeah? I mean, this reaction never would have occurred during the first reprint...

Anyways, I'm not entirely blaming Atlus here. A whole lot of parties were involved in this mess:
1-BOTH Atlus and Amazon are partly to blame for failing to put up a customer limit; one per buyer
2-Douchebag resellers who make things harder for everyone
3-Gaming blogs for sharing information that was only meant for the Faithful. (I actually gave Spencer a really hard time for this...)

Anyways, yes, this was a whole big blunder. And rather than getting pissy, the only thing we can do is patiently ask for moar, and hope that it's done right.

[Kakizaki]

^I'm not sure why you feel the need to implant emoticons into everything, but it is slightly annoying.

I would probably agree that Atlus USA wasn't quite as popular then as it is right now, but I wouldn't say the degree of difference is really that significant. That being said, it really does nothing to negate my previous point either -- that is, you can't compare the reprint of Nocturne and DDS and their availability to the reprint of EP until DDS and Nocturne have a similar window. Your previous statement actually further reinforces that.

As someone that has been around their boards for quite a while, I can tell you the amount of traffic is really no different now than it was in 2005 as far as posting / registered posters are concerned. Maybe guest visits are up?

[BladeBlur]

I heard from someone they are going to have some extra copies today for sale, is that true or it's pretty much done for?

[QBasic]

^I'm not sure why you feel the need to implant emoticons into everything, but it is slightly annoying.

I would probably agree that Atlus USA wasn't quite as popular then as it is right now, but I wouldn't say the degree of difference is really that significant. That being said, it really does nothing to negate my previous point either -- that is, you can't compare the reprint of Nocturne and DDS and their availability to the reprint of EP until DDS and Nocturne have a similar window. Your previous statement actually further reinforces that.

As someone that has been around their boards for quite a while, I can tell you the amount of traffic is really no different now than it was in 2005 as far as posting / registered posters are concerned. Maybe guest visits are up?
Duuude...I like emoticons! A picture says a thousand words!

Anyways...regarding that "window" of yours...you're basically suggesting for us to wait 2-3 years to make a direct comparison. But the question is...WHY? If things are happening to Persona 2 right now, what's not to guarantee the mess will be the same with Nocturne and DDS? By what you suggest...you're basically saying "Let's put those two in a price scalp situation JUST to see if it's the same result."

I'm all for risky science experiments, and testing out theories...but isn't that a wee bit too much for a hypothesis?

As for the member count...I mean, there are lots of variables. Needless to say, visitor count went up sure...but take into account that Atlus more or less publishes very niche titles. The fanbase has grown, but is still limited.

edit - That was an unnecessary comment regarding someone who isn't here to defend themselves. While he irked quite a few people and was a jerk to many others, he also was responsible for some decent contributions - Kakizaki.

And finally...some people just aren't the forum types? Maybe Atlus attracts those? lol

[Kakizaki]

As for the member count...I mean, there are lots of variables. Needless to say, visitor count went up sure...but take into account that Atlus more or less publishes very niche titles. The fanbase has grown, but is still limited.

There are a lot of variables -- many of which may be totally unrelated to SMT titles. Just because general interest may have grown in respect to Atlus USA doesn't mean that base is necessarily interested in SMT. I can think of a few regs that are here that could care less about it.

There are also a lot or variables in regards to this whole reprint affair that no one is taking into account and that none of us will most likely ever be privy to.

Duuude...I like emoticons! A picture says a thousand words!

Yes, and they also can facilitate hostility by appearing condescending.

I'm all for risky science experiments, and testing out theories...but isn't that a wee bit too much for a hypothesis?

That is exactly what you are doing. Why should expectations for me be any different?

what's not to guarantee the mess will be the same with Nocturne and DDS?

That is what I am saying. People are attempting to suggest Atlus did the right thing in regards to the reprint of DDS and Nocturne and this should be the basis for why the 2nd reprint of EP is a failure. IMO, that is pretty faulty. I don't need to repeat why I believe that.

[QBasic]

So, I guess now we're somewhat on the same page...

Can we at least agree on the matter that this could have been handled MUCH differently with better results?

Now the only thing left is to convince the reps to try again...

[thealchemistoftime]

just be happy we got a reprint in the first place sheesh reactions like this is the reason why most company's don't do this in the first place

[Kakizaki]

Can we at least agree on the matter that this could have been handled MUCH differently with better results?



I can agree on that, but I'm not sure what fault there is on the Atlus side.

[rainking187]

Can we at least agree on the matter that this could have been handled MUCH differently with better results?



I can agree on that, but I'm not sure what fault there is on the Atlus side.



Maybe I'm incorrect but I assume that when you have a partnership with Amazon like Atlus does you are allowed to have some input into how to sell your stuff. I think putting up something as admittedly limited as this and then not limiting it to one per person was a bit of a blunder. Unless they offer more copies for sale I'm probably going to have to buy it off one of the resellers that had no problem buying 20 copies while I couldn't even get one.

[Sei]

Well, I don't think that would have accomplished much unless they limited sales to one per credit card. I know people with as many as 20 Amazon accounts, and setting an automated system to make them and buy the allowed one would be little problem.

The only solution I can think of is to restrict sales to people with a faithful released, unique code (like when they distributed the 5 dollar off one) but that has too much potential to blow in their face as they would both have to provide enough copies for everyone in the mailing list, and risk having a lot left over if the sales didn't materialize. Not to mention that Amazon might not be willing to go to that much trouble.

The only real solution is for Atlus to make enough to keep up with demand. Just like DDS and Nocturne are available today at reasonable prices, so can this be. It has already been reprinted twice, a third one might follow at some point.

I think Atlus did good, and it was publicised in the mailing list (unlike DDS and Nocturne which they didnt announce). Unfortunately there is no realistic way to keep wholesalers off things like these that would be feasible for them to do, I don't think.

It might be worth it to both write Atlus and Amazon politely to ask about this, to indicate that there is still a demand, and maybe ensure that the next reprint (if there is one) will happen sooner rather than later.

[Hamel]

Well, I don't think that would have accomplished much unless they limited sales to one per credit card. I know people with as many as 20 Amazon accounts, and setting an automated system to make them and buy the allowed one would be little problem.

The only solution I can think of is to restrict sales to people with a faithful released, unique code (like when they distributed the 5 dollar off one) but that has too much potential to blow in their face as they would both have to provide enough copies for everyone in the mailing list, and risk having a lot left over if the sales didn't materialize. Not to mention that Amazon might not be willing to go to that much trouble.

The only real solution is for Atlus to make enough to keep up with demand. Just like DDS and Nocturne are available today at reasonable prices, so can this be. It has already been reprinted twice, a third one might follow at some point.

I think Atlus did good, and it was publicised in the mailing list (unlike DDS and Nocturne which they didnt announce). Unfortunately there is no realistic way to keep wholesalers off things like these that would be feasible for them to do, I don't think.

It might be worth it to both write Atlus and Amazon politely to ask about this, to indicate that there is still a demand, and maybe ensure that the next reprint (if there is one) will happen sooner rather than later.

Actully you gave a good idea with the only-faithful-code thing
If they would have sent it to the faithfuls a week before everyone else were allowed to buy that would have been good for fans that don't own P2 yet

[konakona]

It might be worth it to both write Atlus and Amazon politely to ask about this, to indicate that there is still a demand, and maybe ensure that the next reprint (if there is one) will happen sooner rather than later.

Sounds good! So...who here likes to write? When writing a professional letter, I think wording is the most important.

[jeffx]

unique faithful coupon + one week grace period is definitely the best way to handle this!!

afterwards, the hoarders can massacre each other all they want

[Kakizaki]

^I think Sei has a good idea, but I'm pretty certain an "Atlus Faithful" exclusive code would also irritate a lot of people. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there are quite a few people who aren't registered with the email notification / newsletter that would consider themselves Atlus fans -- and please, no one say that they aren't fans if they aren't registered....

[Sei]

Hmm, I don't think the code thing is feasible from a logistical point of view but it might be a good idea after all as Jeff and Hamel have pointed out. The question is what "faithful exclusive" means. The mailing list is after all a marketing device, and I don't think exclusive rewards for those that are willing to follow it are unreasonable.

It is my belief that it's quite easy for anyone to make an email account for the mailing list if they want to hear what it has to say. And I really can't think of a better device to distribute personalized codes (I don't think the board would do at all for this purpose). It would probably also serve Atlus in the sense that it would encourage more people to sign up for the newsletter, and in the end, without people signing up, and checking it, it is useless as a marketing device. I think that whoever doesn't feel like getting the newsletter, or can't be bothered, or is not interested, or plain doesn't like it, also shouldn't get to complain about newsletter exclusive things. And at the end of the grace period it would be open to everyone!

I think I like the evolution of this idea. Who knows, someone might see it., like it, and maybe implement it for next time!.

Konakona: I think I'd send something along the lines of "Hi, my name is X, I would like to express my interest in adquiring a copy of Persona 2 Eternal Punishment. Please let me know of any further reprints, or plans to make more copies available in the future. I have followed this series for a while, and would certainly love to add it to my collection." But that might be too formal. I do think a positive approach would work best, though. Enough of these, equating copies with certain sales might have an effect.

[MalikHalo]

Amazon has it back in stock, hurry and get it!

[jeffx]

Amazon has it back in stock, hurry and get it!

looks like those vanished in around 15 minutes or less...

so when are they supposed to ship out anyway?

[Terash Cas]

November 21st delivery date~ with standard shipping

[ryne11]

Well crap. I just can't seem to win. Oh well. I will somehow get a copy.

[Inzaghi]

^I think Sei has a good idea, but I'm pretty certain an "Atlus Faithful" exclusive code would also irritate a lot of people. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there are quite a few people who aren't registered with the email notification / newsletter that would consider themselves Atlus fans -- and please, no one say that they aren't fans if they aren't registered....

Also, while a code's a good idea in theory, there's nothing stopping people who aren't on the mailing list from simply handing out the codes on forums or gaming news blogs. And of course, just because someone's on the Atlus Faithful mailing list doesn't mean they're averse to the idea of buying up 10 or 20 to scalp on eBay. The law of unintended consequences would be in effect no matter what we did.

[Kakizaki]

^That was going to be my next point. Kind of like PA coupons.

[rainking187]

Amazon has it back in stock, hurry and get it!


Arrrrrgggghhhhh. I'm never getting it at this point.

[MalikHalo]

Amazon has it back in stock, hurry and get it!

looks like those vanished in around 15 minutes or less...

so when are they supposed to ship out anyway?

Monday, I'm guessing.

Sorry I didn't get on posting that they were back in stock faster.

[Sei]

Also, while a code's a good idea in theory, there's nothing stopping people who aren't on the mailing list from simply handing out the codes on forums or gaming news blogs. And of course, just because someone's on the Atlus Faithful mailing list doesn't mean they're averse to the idea of buying up 10 or 20 to scalp on eBay. The law of unintended consequences would be in effect no matter what we did.

That's also true. Although with unique codes you would need 10 email adresses subscribed to the mailing list in advance to be able to do that. Although again, I think this solution mght be just too much trouble on Amazon and Atlus part.

rainking187: More copies have come up for sale over the weekend, so maybe the release was intentionally staggered. It might be a good idea to keep trying with your fingers crossed. Might get lucky.

Good luck!

I also want to offer huge thanks and props for not forgetting about .ca as seems to often be the case. There doesn't seem to have been yet any more copies on sale on there, but I, and a few other people I know that got in and got theirs are certainly rather grateful. Thank you for keeping us in mind.

[QBasic]

^I think Sei has a good idea, but I'm pretty certain an "Atlus Faithful" exclusive code would also irritate a lot of people. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there are quite a few people who aren't registered with the email notification / newsletter that would consider themselves Atlus fans -- and please, no one say that they aren't fans if they aren't registered....

Also, while a code's a good idea in theory, there's nothing stopping people who aren't on the mailing list from simply handing out the codes on forums or gaming news blogs. And of course, just because someone's on the Atlus Faithful mailing list doesn't mean they're averse to the idea of buying up 10 or 20 to scalp on eBay. The law of unintended consequences would be in effect no matter what we did.
Then one-per-credit card is the best you can do. I mean...think about, sure some dudes will have like...3 credit cards, and get three copies. But anyone who has like...15 cards is suspicious anyways.

Prevents price scalps and HELPS Scruff McGruff perform his civic duties.

...Then again...what's to stop them from buying $50 Visa Gift cards... Argh, QBasic, epic fail!!! >_<

[Sei]

^ The problem with one per credit card is that I don't think you are allowed to compare credit cards against others and against what has been purchased with them. I am not sure if it's legal, and I think it would give pause to some people. But I might be wrong. I am not really sure of the legal framework surrounding this. I do think it probably raises privacy issues and might not be legal in some places.

For some reason I have the nagging feeling that Canada is like that. But again, I am not sure about this.

[QBasic]

^ The problem with one per credit card is that I don't think you are allowed to compare credit cards against others and against what has been purchased with them. I am not sure if it's legal, and I think it would give pause to some people. But I might be wrong. I am not really sure of the legal framework surrounding this. I do think it probably raises privacy issues and might not be legal in some places.

For some reason I have the nagging feeling that Canada is like that. But again, I am not sure about this.
The transaction is done by computer, then looked over by security officials that it went smoothly. I think a computer can tell the difference by one card and another...

[Hamel]

Gamestop has the "only 1-3 per household" thing maybe they could do that?

[rainking187]

Back in stock! HAHA I GOT ONE!

EDIT: Sold out again. Sorry if you missed it, but seriously it was in stock for like less than 5 minutes that time.

[Hayato]

For some reason I have the nagging feeling that Canada is like that.

I don't know about credit card information specifically, but I can stand with this argument. Canada's law systems put extremely heavy emphasis on people's privacy, which is why you'll never see something like a lawsuit in Canada for digital privacy or similar (which... causes a lot of wank with people concerned with copyrights; Canada's considered one of the worst countries out there in terms of enacting laws to prevent piracy). There's laws preventing people (including top tier types, like government personnel) from requesting things like your IP address, so I wouldn't be surprised if credit card information is similarly protected like that.

This may not be correct, but I believe that certain banks (eg, Royal Bank of Canada) have started setting up online payment systems where the store you're purchasing from doesn't even get to see your credit card information; the exchange is done directly with the bank (or whoever's providing the credit). Something like that. (I obviously wasn't reading the fine print very closely whenever I signed whatever my bank made me, lol.)

[Sei]

Back in stock! HAHA I GOT ONE!

TOLD YA, CONGRATS!

[jeffx]

I did mean unique-per-account codes, as Sei definitely did.

basically, exactly what Capcom did for the Mega Man 9 promo pack! that worked very well, save for the extremely limited quantities.

[Kaplan]

Back in stock! HAHA I GOT ONE!

EDIT: Sold out again. Sorry if you missed it, but seriously it was in stock for like less than 5 minutes that time.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm101/kaplan23/darth_vader_nooo1.jpg

Grats.

[konakona]

Back in stock! HAHA I GOT ONE!

EDIT: Sold out again. Sorry if you missed it, but seriously it was in stock for like less than 5 minutes that time.

I snoozed, I losed. Congrats to you though.

[ryne11]

Is Amazon screwing with me? "Here you go kid. Jump and get the candy. Whoops! not high enough. Whoops! Try again. Whoops! Too slow."

But I will get it, if it is the last thing I do
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4646/jetslashqn2.gif

[BladeBlur]

I hope they'll add more. I don't think there was such a big demand when they re-issued Disgaea.

[ALUNDRA]

Back in stock! HAHA I GOT ONE!

EDIT: Sold out again. Sorry if you missed it, but seriously it was in stock for like less than 5 minutes that time.

Good for you, I had literally just added it to my cart and clicked check out and they removed it and said it was out of stock. Been refreshing forever.

[Crabman]

In stock in Canada NOW!!!

[H3artagram]

I wonder is Amazon is just releasing X amount of copies per day, looks like I'll have a window open hitting the refresh button every once in a while tomorrow :tongue:

[ryne11]

I got class till 5. Crap!

[syl]

In stock in Canada NOW!!!

What?
Maybe I'll manage to get a copy (reasonably priced) eventually.

[Hossaria]

That's great, but based on my understanding, this is the sequel to the first game. Should I hunt for the first one and play it before I try playing the reprint?

You should play Megami Ibunroku Persona too.

[Crabman]

In stock in Canada NOW!!!

What?
Maybe I'll manage to get a copy (reasonably priced) eventually.

Well it was in stock...I managed to get an order in :)

I just say keep trying! I did and got lucky.

[Numerrik]

I know it's a good game but i am not one to go through Amazon's hoops willingly, especially since they are being jack asses about it. Atlus, just reprint the damn thing with like 5,000 to 10,000 copies and let Game Stop and EB canada distibute it again. also bring over Innocent Sin, dammit!

[Hamel]

I know it's a good game but i am not one to go through Amazon's hoops willingly, especially since they are being jack asses about it. Atlus, just reprint the damn thing with like 5,000 to 10,000 copies and let Game Stop and EB canada distibute it again. also bring over Innocent Sin, dammit!

GS and EB don't carry PS1 games anymore
and IS won't happen

[slayn]

I know it's a good game but i am not one to go through Amazon's hoops willingly, especially since they are being jack asses about it. Atlus, just reprint the damn thing with like 5,000 to 10,000 copies and let Game Stop and EB canada distibute it again. also bring over Innocent Sin, dammit!

Also, I would like a puppy.

[konakona]

In stock in Canada NOW!!!

What?
Maybe I'll manage to get a copy (reasonably priced) eventually.

Well it was in stock...I managed to get an order in :)

I just say keep trying! I did and got lucky.

May I ask what is the trick? I seem to keep missing it. I might be refreshing at the wrong hours of the day. There's no warning to it either.

[Crabman]

In stock in Canada NOW!!!

What?
Maybe I'll manage to get a copy (reasonably priced) eventually.

Well it was in stock...I managed to get an order in :)

I just say keep trying! I did and got lucky.

May I ask what is the trick? I seem to keep missing it. I might be refreshing at the wrong hours of the day. There's no warning to it either.

I have no clue...I really just lucked out, although they did put it up at about 5 PM when I ordered. I dunno if they are consistent with updating stock, though.

Or you can emulate my conditions:

1. Do homework for a few hours
2. Start feeling like slacking off
3. Go on Amazon.ca

TA-DA!! ;)

[prince]

they sould reprint Innocent Sin as well. I would want to buy that game for 50$ or less

[konakona]

they sould reprint Innocent Sin as well. I would want to buy that game for 50$ or less

I don't think Innocent Sin was ever localized/translated by Atlus. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[prince]

yea ur right, i was thinking about Persona 1 sorry for confusion

[Platyphyllum]

Just like many of you, I'm having the hardest time actually getting on amazon.ca at the right time to get myself a copy >_< I signed up to be notified when it's available though so hopefully they haven't stopped reprinting the game.

[syl]

Just like many of you, I'm having the hardest time actually getting on amazon.ca at the right time to get myself a copy >_< I signed up to be notified when it's available though so hopefully they haven't stopped reprinting the game.

Do those alerts/notifications actually work?

[konakona]

Just like many of you, I'm having the hardest time actually getting on amazon.ca at the right time to get myself a copy >_< I signed up to be notified when it's available though so hopefully they haven't stopped reprinting the game.

Do those alerts/notifications actually work?

No, I believe in another thread a few people said Amazon's alerts/notifications don't work and aren't any helpful.

[jeffx]

well it won't kill you to sign up, but yeah, they haven't worked for me at all.

[Nightrayne13x]

Got mine today!!!

woot woot woot.

Now time to sell on ebay for a 100 dollar profit. thanks atlus!!!!






jk jk



In all seriousness gonna pop it in the psOne (or maybe my ps2 or ps3..or *cough* my psp *cough* ...decisions decisions) and watch the bonus disk first :)

[Asch]

Well this sucks, since I couldn't get a copy in time for the 40 dollar price. I'm gonna have to emulate anyway to play Innocent Sin so if I can't get a copy then I'll find a rom.

[konakona]

Well this sucks, since I couldn't get a copy in time for the 40 dollar price. I'm gonna have to emulate anyway to play Innocent Sin so if I can't get a copy then I'll find a rom.

I am not attacking you, but am just wondering, would you consider this act (of piracy) justifiable and/or legal because the game is out of print and unobtainable at a reasonable price? This is not just a question for you, but for everyone else as well.

[dunno001]

Well this sucks, since I couldn't get a copy in time for the 40 dollar price. I'm gonna have to emulate anyway to play Innocent Sin so if I can't get a copy then I'll find a rom.

I am not attacking you, but am just wondering, would you consider this act (of piracy) justifiable and/or legal because the game is out of print and unobtainable at a reasonable? This is not just a question for you, but for everyone else as well.
My thoughts are that you need to own a legal copy first. If the US copy is not availiable for a reasonable price, feel free to find another legit copy, and then I would permit a media-shift. However, games are a priviledge, not a right, so just because it's not "reasonably priced", does not give you the right to a free copy.

[mythus]

I received my copy, but it came with a problem. The back side is improperly assembled.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2951/p2ex1.jpg

I have no idea what to do since i got it for collective purposes and would rather keep it sealed. I know if i send it back to amazon i probably will not get it replaced and risk never seeing it again. I just wonder if this makes it even more rarer lol.

[prince]

checked my order status, it will be at my house today ^^

[Olethros]

Well this sucks, since I couldn't get a copy in time for the 40 dollar price. I'm gonna have to emulate anyway to play Innocent Sin so if I can't get a copy then I'll find a rom.

I am not attacking you, but am just wondering, would you consider this act (of piracy) justifiable and/or legal because the game is out of print and unobtainable at a reasonable price? This is not just a question for you, but for everyone else as well.

Piracy is never justifiable.

[Crabman]

I received my copy, but it came with a problem. The back side is improperly assembled.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2951/p2ex1.jpg

I have no idea what to do since i got it for collective purposes and would rather keep it sealed. I know if i send it back to amazon i probably will not get it replaced and risk never seeing it again. I just wonder if this makes it even more rarer lol.

Misprints are rarer. Plus you could go on eBay and be like "RARE MISPRINT VERSION" and boost your bids :D

Apparently mine is shipping! Now I have to have some faith in...Canada Post o_0

[Divals]

Well this sucks, since I couldn't get a copy in time for the 40 dollar price. I'm gonna have to emulate anyway to play Innocent Sin so if I can't get a copy then I'll find a rom.

I am not attacking you, but am just wondering, would you consider this act (of piracy) justifiable and/or legal because the game is out of print and unobtainable at a reasonable price? This is not just a question for you, but for everyone else as well.

Just throwing in my two cents here on the piracy controversy... in my opinion, piracy can only really be justified in one case. That is when the software being pirated is something that you NEED, and you cannot afford to purchase it (such as art students who need Adobe software, and suchlike), AND if you will not be using anything made with that software for profit.

I do not consider emulation or downloading of out-of-print games to be piracy, however. If the company is not producing the game anyway, the primary harm of piracy - that being loss of potential profits - does not apply, and in that case the software would be considered abandonware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware).

[slayn]

I do not consider emulation or downloading of out-of-print games to be piracy, however. If the company is not producing the game anyway, the primary harm of piracy - that being loss of potential profits - does not apply, and in that case the software would be considered abandonware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware).

This is a bad argument. Just because a company is not producing a game right now doesn't mean said game is automatically abandonware. Let's take, oh, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment as an example. By your argument, it would have been perfectly ok to download an ISO of this game on November 12 since, as far as you knew, Atlus was no longer producing copies. Yet on November 13, we all got an email saying new copies were for sale at Amazon. Does that mean a person that downloaded an ISO on the 12th was just sampling some "abandonware" and the person downloading on the 13th was a pirate? No, both are pirates.

As long as a company holds the copyright to a game, it is not abandonware. With the advent of services like Nintendo's Virtual Console and the like, games that were largely considered "abandonware" six months ago are now again available for purchase.

That's not to say you're going to get a cease and desist order for downloading a bunch of ROMs and ISOs, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're not a pirate.

[Kakizaki]

^Well said.

[Divals]

Good point, I suppose... personally, if a game I was playing as abandonware were to be re-released, I'd tend to go and buy the re-release and ditch the rom. Though generally my abandonware gaming is on PC... unfortunately, I don't see much possibility for a re-release of MechCommander 2, Halloween Harry, or Commander Keen :p

Meh. *raises the Jolly Roger*

edit: erm.. is this breaking any forum rules? I don't want to get banned... *paranoid*

[Crabman]

I got my copy in the mail today! :)

[Kabapu]

I said this on another thread, but Atlus ought to have sent out an email stating they were taking pre-orders for a day and then used that information as a gauge for how many to produce.

Honestly, you can argue that Atlus wasn't at fault for the botched reprint all you want; but if the game was only available for about two to three hours, then something went wrong somewhere.

[slayn]

Nothing went wrong since they stated explicity that it was an extremely limited run. I'm still of the opinion that this wasn't even a reprint, but rather an intern found a box full of copies in a broom closet :).

[Atlus Fan]

*Mouth drops in shock*

I only just now learned of this wondrous event. (And I’m late to the party…)
Is the print run over or is there still a chance of more new copies surfacing on Amazon.ca?

<EDIT: To prevent double post>

Well I've learned my lesson here. From now on I’m watching the newsletter like a hawk! :D

Although I didn’t manage to obtain a copy of P2:EP. Atleast I can still look forward to Devil Summoner: Raido Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon being released… with that in mind I feel somewhat better. :)

(Best to look forwards into the bright bright future!)

Plus this reprint proves additional PS1 disc reprints 'may' someday appear of other Atlus titles! :)
(I can dream...)

[ahnslaught]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone has had the problem I had. I got my copy of Persona 2 from amazon, and I had no game disc, but two bonus discs.

The crappy part is that they're out of stock, so all they could offer me was the refund. Bummer.

[Soushi_Grapple]

ahnslaught, you could probably sell/trade the bonus disc to get $$ towards a disc only copy on Ebay =)

[MwarriorHiei]

I received my copy, but it came with a problem. The back side is improperly assembled.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2951/p2ex1.jpg

I have no idea what to do since i got it for collective purposes and would rather keep it sealed. I know if i send it back to amazon i probably will not get it replaced and risk never seeing it again. I just wonder if this makes it even more rarer lol.

hah! mine is just like that too! and what sucks even more is that my ps2 wont run the game *very pissed off*

[Hyperactive]

Bit late to post on this topic of piracy, but what the heck.

It doesn't matter how high the horse that some of you are on measures, I am sure you all do some small thing, even if its downloading a copyrighted picture to use as a desktop.

I have played some roms. Reason being? I couldn't find it for sell on any place other than online, and the few online transactions I have had have not been pleasant. My money was not going to the company who made the game. I was not dl'ing it to find some way to sell it. I was not trying to find some way to gain monetary value from it in any way shape or form.

I do look at games as abandon ware after years and years of no reprints, and its so rare, that it can't easily be found for sell. If a company won't put out enough copies to even let all their fans have a shot at purchasing a game, and instead print limited runs, and never make extra's, if I wanted to play it bad enough I would dl it.

My definition of privacy has nothing to do with need, like another person mentioned. It has to do with gaining monetary value from another company's product after the company itself has stopped production, or the item is currently in production, or dl'ing the product when it is itself still being sold by the company that made it.

Persona 2 ceased being sold, and it took 8 years to get a reprint. The game was popular enough to allow people to sell it for outrageous prices on places like ebay, and even in stores who sell old, used games. Even after the constant wanting of reprints by atlus fans, it took this long to get some more copies for sell.

My point with all of this, is some of you may enjoy the high horse approach, but life is not a high horse, low horse situation. There are always grey area's to every situation, and I am happy for that. I am happy I am able to play old games on my computer, games I can't find for sell for less than $100, assuming I can even find it for sell at all that is, and enjoy happy memories from my pre-teen and teen years.

Just for clarification purposes, I actually own, as in purchased, every atlus and NIS america game they have come out with, well, almost every atlus. I own an original version of persona 2, thousand arms, rhapsody, and so on, all bought when they were released.

Also for clarification, if I could handle playing roms on my computer nowadays, I would find someway to play dragonforce, a game I havent played in a decade, this one game about feudal japan where you play as generals in a turn based rpg fight with the generals hp's being represented as soldiers, this was a nintendo game btw, and you had to set a strategist in your party to cast spells. Complicated game for its time, first game I ever played where the spells were japanese symbols, iirc.

But I always buy the games I want the most, the ones I am after now are shining force 3, albert odyssey, dragon force, a game I havent played in so long, and panzer dragoon saga and the shooters of the same name as well.

To end this, you guys who chose to judge a person who said they played a rom, its not your place. Feel free to list your opinion on the matter of piracy, and your definition, but don't try to place those opinions as a form of rebuke on another person. Every human alive has done something that is technically illegal, even if its something as minor as jay walking, only a baby is truly innocent enough to be completely free of law breaking.

[SickleCellAnemia]

^TL,DR.

[Kakizaki]

But I always buy the games I want the most, the ones I am after now are shining force 3, albert odyssey, dragon force, a game I havent played in so long, and panzer dragoon saga and the shooters of the same name as well.I didn't read most of your post, but I caught this at the end. You do realize most of these games listed all cost around the same or even more than the N.A. version of Persona EP and can be even more difficult to track down? Therefore, I find your argument regarding the price and rarity of EP justifying piracy a bit shaky.

Having an opinion that piracy is wrong doesn't necessarily mean someone has a "high horse" attitude. Yes everyone probably has done something wrong at one time or another but there are varying degrees of severity. You can still have an opinion regardless.

[slayn]

too many words that say nothing

The next time I'm get pulled over for speeding I'm going to tell the officer that he's working in a grey area that is open to interpretation, therefore he has no grounds to issue me a citation. After all, I'm sure he's sped just a little bit before.

Laws are laws; make all the justifications you want, but you're still a pirate and still breaking the law.

[iammako3]

Also for clarification, if I could handle playing roms on my computer nowadays, I would find someway to play dragonforce, a game I havent played in a decade, this one game about feudal japan where you play as generals in a turn based rpg fight with the generals hp's being represented as soldiers, this was a nintendo game btw, and you had to set a strategist in your party to cast spells. Complicated game for its time, first game I ever played where the spells were japanese symbols, iirc.

But I always buy the games I want the most, the ones I am after now are shining force 3, albert odyssey, dragon force, a game I havent played in so long, and panzer dragoon saga and the shooters of the same name as well.

Wait, Dude, Dragon Force (and hell, all the other games you mentioned) is not a Nintendo game. That came out for the good old Sega Saturn (and they remade it for the PS2 in Japan, I believe). And you didn't need a strategist to case spells, each general had their own special power moves.

No need to pirate it for me as I still have my Saturn and the game. Albert Odyssey was another great RPG, so I give you an A for good taste, but a D for not knowing they were on the Saturn. :-P

[PFV]

^I think the game he was talking about at that point was Destiny of an Emperor (though, that's China, not Japan), not Dragon Force.

[Hyperactive]

Oh, yeah, china, forgot, been at least 12 years since I played it =p Only thing I remember about it is names like Zhang Wei, and Sun Yu, and what not.

And yeah, I know what system dragon force is on. It was one of my favorite games of old. I was always drawn to watching all 200 soldiers duke it out, and watching the winning side swarm the general.

Destiny of an emperor eh, think I may keep an eye out for that. I probably wouldn't be able to stand playing that game now, but who knows, maybe I can actually understand the game, it was a bit on the complicated side, with all the chinese names and places.

And slayn, next time you get pulled over, tell the officer you dl'ed a playstation game from 1998, and played it....let us know what s/he says. Then tell the cop you dl'ed a game from 2000, printed copies, and sold them...then tell us what the cop says.

Point is this, there is no absolute right and wrong in this world. Get used to it. Most to all people in this world will push rules to certain stress points, depending what the rule is, and who the person is. As long as you don't break the stress point, I doubt anybody would care.

[Kakizaki]

^You totally missed Slayn's point.

[James Fiend]

Oh, yeah, china, forgot, been at least 12 years since I played it =p Only thing I remember about it is names like Zhang Wei, and Sun Yu, and what not.

Zhang Fei and Sun Ce?

[Hyperactive]

I guess so =p, I played that game before I was 15 I think, I am 29 now.

And I don't think I missed Slayn's point. My counter point is tell the officer those 2 scenario's I listed above. I bet the officer looks at you funny if you mention you dl'd a game and played it and send you on your way wondering what you have been smoking, but I bet the officer will haul you off to jail and get a warrant to search your place if you tell them you are burning dl'd games and selling em. I see police speeding all the time, with no lights on, and just passing people, getting back in the right lane, and keeping going on with their lives. Should the police be arrested for speeding? I drive 5 miles over the speed limit just about everywhere save in the middle of a town, should I be arrested? All laws have stress points, and if you don't try to surpass those stress points, nobody is going to toss you in jail over it. Downloading an old game to play it? I doubt a cop would waste the time to run you to the station to book you. Selling burned copies of a game? Have fun in prison.

Edit...

Thanks PFV, I looked up Destiny of an Emperor, and thats the game alright.

Another point is if you look up that game on wikipedia, it lists the game and also says there is a part 2. Take a look at what it says about part 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_of_an_Emperor

It says it was never released in English but that fans made an English translation patch for the rom online. Slayn, what would you say about all those translators and people who dl part 2 and the patch and play it?

[Kakizaki]

And I don't think I missed Slayn's point. My counter point is tell the officer those 2 scenario's I listed above. I bet the officer looks at you funny if you mention you dl'd a game and played it and send you on your way wondering what you have been smoking, but I bet the officer will haul you off to jail and get a warrant to search your place if you tell them you are burning dl'd games and selling em. I see police speeding all the time, with no lights on, and just passing people, getting back in the right lane, and keeping going on with their lives. Should the police be arrested for speeding? I drive 5 miles over the speed limit just about everywhere save in the middle of a town, should I be arrested? All laws have stress points, and if you don't try to surpass those stress points, nobody is going to toss you in jail over it. Downloading an old game to play it? I doubt a cop would waste the time to run you to the station to book you. Selling burned copies of a game? Have fun in prison.

Apparently you did miss the point. You were attempting to justify piracy by stating everyone commits petty little crimes here and there. Therefore, they can't judge others. Slayn was commenting that your point was arbitrary. If you were to be pulled over, you certainly could not justify what you did by pointing out to the cop at some time in his or her life they also broke some law. It doesn't matter what the circumstance is or how you try to justify it. The mention of downloading a game is meaningless to this example. A crime is a crime.

I will say it again. You attempted to justify pirating games due to rarity and cost and then you later stated you were willing to purchase games that were even more expensive or rare than the one in question. That makes little sense.

[Hyperactive]

I don't justify piracy, I acknowledge that there are varying degree's of piracy, and dl'ing an old game to play is one of those shades of grey that a majority of the people in this world would just ignore. What I do justify though is that I agree with these shades of grey. Without them, life would be boring, and everybody would live entirely by the book. In a world like that, nobody has any personality.

[slayn]

I don't justify piracy, I acknowledge that there are varying degree's of piracy, and dl'ing an old game to play is one of those shades of grey that a majority of the people in this world would just ignore. What I do justify though is that I agree with these shades of grey. Without them, life would be boring, and everybody would live entirely by the book. In a world like that, nobody has any personality.

Nope, still missing my point. There are no shades of grey when it comes to the law. Yes, you can usually get away with small, petty crimes like speeding by five or less miles an hour, or downloading a fifteen-year-old game solely for your enjoyment, but you still breaking the law and if someone gets a stick in their ass about it, they can prosecute and you'd have no real defense. A judge may laugh at the incredibly petty nature of the crime, but your shades of grey argument would be laughed at.

Again, I would like to point out that it is very, very unlikely you'll get in any sort of trouble for downloading ROMs and ISOs of old, out-of-print games, but doing so is still illegal. Trying to make yourself feel better by going on about grey areas is just self-justification and in no way real.

It says it was never released in English but that fans made an English translation patch for the rom online. Slayn, what would you say about all those translators and people who dl part 2 and the patch and play it?

Still piracy, but you're even less likely to get in any sort of trouble.

I don't really care if you pirate games that are OOP and hard to find (or even not hard to find), or stuff that never came out in America/Europe and requires a translation patch. I just get tired of people lying to themselves and others trying to justify it. If you are not playing an actual copy of the game, you are a pirate. Yo ho ho.

[Hyperactive]

There are shades of gray to everything, including the law, that is why drivers drive 5 miles over the speed limit and cops don't care one way or the other. That is one shade of gray that the world accepts.

As for prosecution, you don't understand how the world works if you won't accept shades of gray. Its illegal to jay walk, yet I see people do it like crazy. I don't think you understand my point in joining this discussion. I am not debating that its against the law, I am saying that nobody has the right to tell somebody off for dl'ing an old game, as if their crap smelled better than somebody elses. There are accepted shades of gray to most laws, its why all those big organizations find loop holes or have their bought off politicians find a way to get loop holes added to bills they don't like.

And I doubt my shades of gray arguement would be laughed at, since that is how the world works. Its why judges give punishments of varying degree's, because there are different shades of crimes. Did the person do pre-meditated murder, or a heat of the moment murder? Did the person steal a car because he wanted to sell it or because his friend was severely hurt and you did not have a phone to call an ambulance? Did that person assault that other man with a deadly weapon because he wanted to hurt him or because he wanted to stop him from raping a woman? See what I mean?

I don't use gray area's as justification, I say there are publically accepted gray areas and dl'ing roms of old games is one of them. I am not justifying piracy of the kind I am talking about, I just say that nobody has the right to put somebody down for playing a rom when its a perfectly acceptable gray area, and I am positive that every person alive has committed a crime using my gray area idea, a.k.a. jay walking.

[Soushi_Grapple]

All they're saying is shades of gray < law when it comes down to the bottom line, doesn't necessarilly mean your arguement isn't justified as much.

Persona 2 usually only goes for around $40 online anyway.. thats cheaper than a new game these days... and if you're talking about P2:IS, Japanese games are usually much cheaper.

[slayn]

Hyperactive, you don't seem to grasp just what most people refer to as so-called "shades of grey." A grey area, in terms of law, usually refers to something that is not clearly defined as illegal by an existing law, though it may fall under the auspices of one or several laws. Piracy, in any form, is very clearly against the law and is not, in any way, shape, or form, a grey area.

The fact that some forms of piracy are not prosecuted does not make them a grey area. To go back to the speeding analogy, I've passed cops doing 15 mph over the speed limit and didn't get pulled. By your argument, anything up to 15 mph is now ok since those cops didn't pull me over. But wait! I've been pulled for doing 7 mph over the limit. DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!! (Furthermore, your claim about 5 mph being universally accepted is a load of bull. Come drive around pretty much any state in the southeastern U.S. and you'll invariably come across some little podunk town that has a zero-tolerance policy for speeding. They will pull you over for going as little as two mph over the limit. Also, I dare you to go mess with the new speeding laws in Virgina. I dare you.)

The law is the law. How those with authority choose to enforce and uphold the law is another matter entirely, but has absolutely no bearing on the law itself.

[James Fiend]

Piracy, in any form, is very clearly against the law and is not, in any way, shape, or form, a grey area.

Software Piracy is not illegal in Iran. There is also no enforcement of the law in China. Many other countries vary on legal stance.
Compared to more concrete crimes like murder and armed robbery, I'd argue that software piracy is a gray area, generally speaking.

[Kakizaki]

^I wouldn't use China as an example to bolster the 'gray' areas of piracy considering how much of a large issue piracy is considered in China. Not too hard to find articles:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13617619/

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/09/news/trade.php

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/china/fi16ad07.html

I would say that interest from the feds in regards to piracy in China makes it a little bit of a big deal.

Shoplifting isn't really a big deal compared to murder either is it? Maybe that should be a 'gray' area huh? Comparing legal codes between nations is pointless for the most part -- especially nations that differ radically. Do we really want to pick apart Iranian law compared to U.S. law? I believe sodomy between two males in Iran was punishable by death? Maybe it still is? Is sodomy a 'concrete crime'? Good thing they focus on that as opposed to piracy -- or maybe they don't have the resources to attempt to enforce anything. My point is that it proves nothing to compare laws when you can't draw societal parallels between the two nations.

[slayn]

Software Piracy is not illegal in Iran. There is also no enforcement of the law in China. Many other countries vary on legal stance.
Compared to more concrete crimes like murder and armed robbery, I'd argue that software piracy is a gray area, generally speaking.

I read this and I can't help but laugh. People will go to any extreme to try to justify their lawbreaking :).

[Kakizaki]

^Equally funny considering how big of a deal it is for U.S. IPs. Microsoft recently stated China is irrelevant as a market because of the extreme level of pirated software there.

Nice to know that one of the few large exports the U.S. still has is negated to a degree in a massive market and it is a 'gray area'.

[slayn]

In some Middle Eastern countries it's legal to beat your wife to death if she backtalks you. Next time my wife starts with the backtalkin', I'm getting mah whoopin' stick out and going with the grey area defense!

[Kakizaki]

^Why not? If it is good enough for them, then I guess it applies to us as well.

I think there was an execution as recently as 2005 for sodomy in Iran. Good times. But hey, piracy isn't illegal!

[MwarriorHiei]

you know, it doesnt really matter if it is illegal or not, as long as you delete rom/iso within 24 hours of the dowload...

or if you own the game ;)

[slayn]

you know, it doesnt really matter if it is illegal or not, as long as you delete rom/iso within 24 hours of the dowload...

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but this is patently false.

[James Fiend]

Never mind. I made a super big post that I'll sum up as "It's illegal, nobody enforces it."
Just like sodomy in several states which makes it a legal gray area. A law without the ability to enforce it is more like a strong suggestion or plea.
Also, I don't regularly pirate or make excuses for piracy. So accusing me of justifying my "lawbreaking" = ignorant. This is an interesting discussion discounting snide, sarcastic remarks.

[slayn]

Never mind. I made a super big post that I'll sum up as "It's illegal, nobody enforces it."
Just like sodomy in several states which makes it a legal gray area. A law without the ability to enforce it is more like a strong suggestion or plea.
Also, I don't regularly pirate or make excuses for piracy. So accusing me of justifying my "lawbreaking" = ignorant. This is an interesting discussion discounting snide, sarcastic remarks.

Some of you people are dense. A legal grey area is something that is not clearly defined as illegal by an existing law. Piracy is clearly defined as illegal, all the way up to the federal level. Once again, a lack of enforcement does not push something into a legal grey area. A moral grey area, perhaps, but not a legal one.

And trying to say your pirating activities are somehow ok because you don't do it very often is the essence of trying to justify it. You are a lawbreaker. You are on the wrong side of the law. There is no grey area. That said, you will almost certainly not be prosecuted for it, so the only "punishment" is whatever your conscious says. That is where the grey area exists, because most people aren't going to think twice about downloading a Super Mario World ROM, despite it being a crime.

[James Fiend]

Never mind. I made a super big post that I'll sum up as "It's illegal, nobody enforces it."
Just like sodomy in several states which makes it a legal gray area. A law without the ability to enforce it is more like a strong suggestion or plea.
Also, I don't regularly pirate or make excuses for piracy. So accusing me of justifying my "lawbreaking" = ignorant. This is an interesting discussion discounting snide, sarcastic remarks.

Some of you people are dense. A legal grey area is something that is not clearly defined as illegal by an existing law. Piracy is clearly defined as illegal, all the way up to the federal level. Once again, a lack of enforcement does not push something into a legal grey area. A moral grey area, perhaps, but not a legal one.

And trying to say your pirating activities are somehow ok because you don't do it very often is the essence of trying to justify it. You are a lawbreaker. You are on the wrong side of the law. There is no grey area. That said, you will almost certainly not be prosecuted for it, so the only "punishment" is whatever your conscious says. That is where the grey area exists, because most people aren't going to think twice about downloading a Super Mario World ROM, despite it being a crime.
I'm dense? Where did I ever once say that pirating activities are ok? I said I don't do it very often because I'm not some sort of advocate of moral righteousness for pirating, but when I want to play Sword of the Samurai you better believe I'm hitting the abandonware sites. If Microprose wants to take action, let them. I'd be delighted to get a letter from Sid Meier; I'm a big fan.

I haven't once justified piracy as legal or morally correct, but you can't seem to get around this ridiculous agenda and discuss this like a human being. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is dense and a criminal and ought to be ashamed.

It's legally gray because the language of the laws is murky and because it varies wildly from place to place. That doesn't make it right or legal, but it does make it gray.
Software piracy laws are still being modified and reviewed. No functional system is in place to enforce the laws; laws that don't address enough factors about source, and file sharing and torrents.

If you consider me a lawbreaker, that's fine. Sometimes I smoke within 20 feet of a building, sometimes I jay-walk and occasionally I go over the speed limit as much as ten miles per hour. You aren't going to make me feel guilty about my "pirating activities."

If you want to make this about me, I don't mind, but I think a normal discussion would still be better.

[Kakizaki]

Again, I think some of you are misusing the whole concept of gray areas, but whatever.

This thread wasn't supposed to be about piracy in the first place. We have had a lengthy discussion about it and someone even chose to revive it, but let's drop it.

The topic was supposed to be about the reprint of EP. Let's leave it at that.

[slayn]

On topic, I've heard of at least one person getting a copy that has two bonus discs instead of the game and a bonus disc. Has this happened to anyone else? And, on the flip side, has anyone received a copy with two game discs?

[James Fiend]

I missed the whole thing and ordered a new copy from an Amazon user for 80 bucks. I'll get it on the sixteenth. I hope they aren't re-selling it because it's defective.

[Kakizaki]

@Slayn

^Weird. I had not yet heard of that.


I meant to check so small game shops yesterday to see if they had any copies, but I was overwhelmed with Xmas shopping.

@James,

I haven't heard anything about defective EP discs - only Nocturne.

[slayn]

Wow, I'd have been pretty pissed if I'd finally gotten a new copy of Nocturne and it was defective.

Actually, now that you mention it, I've never verified if my backup copy (bought, not burned :-D) works...

[Kakizaki]

^My g/f bought Nocturne when it was reprinted. Her first copy had issues with massive slowdown. We tried it out on several PS2s. Her second copy was fine.

I had been hearing about people having similar issues. I also have a sealed back up copy from the reprint. Makes me a little nervous. I thought about a third copy when it dipped way down on sale a while back.

[Trucido Umbra]

^My g/f bought Nocturne when it was reprinted. Her first copy had issues with massive slowdown. We tried it out on several PS2s. Her second copy was fine.

I had been hearing about people having similar issues. I also have a sealed back up copy from the reprint. Makes me a little nervous. I thought about a third copy when it dipped way down on sale a while back.

Dang I pre-ordered Nocturne, never had that issue, sad to hear it. At least the 2nd disk worked well.

Wow, well I guess I never got the email or it got buried. I would have been on this like a magnet. I think the single 82$ new one is better than the 185$'s left. Though I'm thinking if one is used & tested it might be more certain, but even then it has to be a trustworthy seller, not just a disk malfunction chance.

I only wish the other part of this game would join it in reprint, however offensive or disturbing, or whatever the reason finally determined to not release it at all. Only other thing I'll add is that if I legally own a copy of a game atlus usa won't release here from lack of cojones I think it's my property & I may rip it to put English dialog in. Just sayin...

But yeah having copies for backup is a must these days, I got 2 DS2's as I had from DTR's suggestion since someone did steal my doll, I think I'll let her keep that one. Er, yep time to go to bed.