Besides PS2; What Future System Would You Want Persona to be On?

[Zeta_Nova]

Like with the topic says. What system do you guys want to see Persona on?

[jeffx]

Wii60

[Crabman]

Wii60

:agree:

Wii seems like a logical follow up given the comparatively natural step up from the PS2, but if Atlus wanted to enter with the more powerful systems, the 360 seems like a more logical choice given the reportedly easier development.

I see Wii more likely, though. 360 gamers might not like the quirkier titles, where as the Wii is full of them. Also, the reason the PS2 strategy worked so well was because that there were so many PS2 owners there had to be a niche that craved what Altus could provide. Given the massive user base of the Wii, it seems logical.

[James Fiend]

I say Wii and DS for purely selfish reasons. I like the Nintendo systems.

Also, if future titles utilized the evoker again, we might get to see some of the Atlus staff on Nancy Grace.

[Futomimi]

I think that they will make Persona 5 on the 360. It would sell AWESOME in Japan! :idea:

[Kakizaki]

lol. ;)

[cj iwakura]

PSP. Persona 1 & 2 are perfect fits.

Come on, Atlus, if Square can remake the same plotless FF a dozen times, you guys can remake some of the best modern RPGs ever at least once.

[unknown]

I would love Atlus JP forever if they remade Soul Hackers and I would love Atlus US forever if they localized it.

I want to play it so badly ;_;

[DevilRy]

A rerelease of the original Persona on any platform would be nice.

[Sei]

^ Maybe if they removed the localized suck from it.

For want, I'd go with Ps3. for most likely... probably PSP or DS. Same reasons as square gave for DQ 9. if between those too, I prefer PSP for bigger screen and hopefully fmv.

[RayFoxSith]

I see the DS as the perfect front for the series. A pipe dream of mine is an SMT game running on EO's engine (I know this is most likely impossible).

[James Fiend]

I see the DS as the perfect front for the series. A pipe dream of mine is an SMT game running on EO's engine (I know this is most likely impossible).Why is it impossible? EO isn't so complicated that Atlus would have to pay to borrow the code. A new portable SMT in the style of EO seems possible from a technical standpoint.

[Numerrik]

They need to port P2 that they didn't port years ago. and finally port the complete P1!!! and imagine should be done!!!

but let's be honest, Wii60 Cause i own the wii and i am a nintendo guy... but they might sell a fair bit on 360.. though mostly wii.

[Azriel Crusnik]

PS3, this system need's some Atlus love.

[DevilRy]

^ Maybe if they removed the localized suck from it.


I'd import it anyway. I just want a reissue since the game is notoriously hard to run from a burned copy (the only way I can play since my original is so scratched). I'd prefer some sort of deal like with the VC if at all possible since CDs/DVDs as a medium are so easily messed up and disposable.

They rereleased the SMT games for Nocturne, you'd think they'd want to do the same with Persona. :very_sad:

[dragonlife29]

I say Wii and DS for purely selfish reasons. I like the Nintendo systems.

Also, if future titles utilized the evoker again, we might get to see some of the Atlus staff on Nancy Grace.Pretty much the same for me, too =)

It would certainly be interesting to see the series on Wii.

[Olethros]

360 gets my vote, although I would actually buy a PS3 for this game if that platform was the choice.

I could live with it being on the DS, although the mass migration of previous console games over to portables is starting to really piss me off.
Same thing as above for Sony: I'd buy a PSP for this game if it went to that platform.

One of my greatest nightmares is classic or on-going series ending up on the Wii. It's a dead end and could quite possibly set back JRPG's coming over to America back about a decade.

[Iris]

I'd much rather it was on Wii or 360, for the completely unbiased and carefully thought-out reason of me not wanting to buy another system. We have a Wii, and my roomies and I all want various things on 360 enough that we're planning to split the cost and get one for the house this Christmas. But if Megaten goes PS3, I'm going to have to foot the cost of that one on my own.

Have mercy, Atlus. Saving for grad school is hard enough in this economy. ;.;

As for portables, I'd be fine with either PSP or DS, really. But a Soul Hackers port to PSP would rock my world.

[Crabman]

One of my greatest nightmares is classic or on-going series ending up on the Wii. It's a dead end and could quite possibly set back JRPG's coming over to America back about a decade.

Care to elaborate? I don't really see how putting an RPG on the Wii would be so negative...

[Olethros]

One of my greatest nightmares is classic or on-going series ending up on the Wii. It's a dead end and could quite possibly set back JRPG's coming over to America back about a decade.

Care to elaborate? I don't really see how putting an RPG on the Wii would be so negative...

Sure. First, I'm not saying a single RPG. That's fine. I'm more concerned over the big picture. Something along the lines of how the bulk of RPGs ended up on the PS2 (which was actaully a good thing, but that's somewhat tangential and for a different time).

The Wii is a gimmick, pure and simple. Its large install base is articficially inflated. I know of at least a dozen people who have purchased it because it was the hot new must-have item (either for themselves or for their little kids) and have never bought any games other than Wii Fit. These are just from my department, which is a small part of my division, which is a small part of an enormous institution. I believe this is a good representative sample of the population as opposed to a possible fluke.
Obviously, I realize that my argument is based off of anecdotal evidence, and if anyone has hard numbers (ATTENTION SEI: big hole to drive your truck-o'facts through! ;)) I'd be more than happy to re-evaluate the situation.

Anyway, the inflated install base is barely interested in purchasing even mainstream third party titles. They'll never go for most JRPGs or SRPGs. This leads to poor sales and game company execs re-thinking the economic viability of bringing over more niche titles. Just like a decade ago.

There. Is that enough elaboration for you?

[Sei]

I'd love to, but I have two midterms tommorrow for which I should actually be studying right now!. Yet I'm making breakfast as the irresponsible slacker I am. I will offer an opinion and anecdotal evidence instead: I own all 3 next gen systems, yet the Wii is the one I own the most games for. I doubt I would be considered a casual Gamer. I also own Wii Fit :D.

Opinion: If there were more serious games for the wii, more Serious gamers would be interested in the Wii. You bought a 360, you said, on 3 Atlus titles. I'm sure you'd buy a wii for similar enticements. Also, As a success in both Japan and the Us, I'd think it would be a good candidate for Japanese games from companies that don't want to alienate their base, yet don't want to gamble on the Ps3 yet, sort of like the DS and the PSP.

[jeffx]

It's a good elaboration (though somewhat opinionated), but surely you've noticed that all "classic" series (Star Ocean, Final Fantasy, Tales of) are all going to end up on the 360 one way or another... Wii is getting all the left-over series such as Crystal Chronicles and Chocobo Dungeon and uhm... that's about it seriously.

So I mean, I wouldn't be too concerned if I were you. If anything I'd say odds are definitely in favor of Persona/SMT getting a 360 iteration. Personally I'm just looking for more RPGs on the Wii because unlike you, I love the system. In fact, the PS3's the only console I don't care for. I'm surprised that many people even voted for it so far.

[Olethros]

Good solid points, both of you. I'll admit bias against the Wii simply because I HATE the control scheme. However, Sei is correct in that I would break down and buy one if there were enough game enticements to do so.

You have to admit, though, that it is a technological step backwards. In a medium struggling to find it's serious, more mature voice the Wii doesn't seem to be going in the right direction.

[StrikeRaider]

I think you meant something other than technological. The Wii is a huge step forward in terms of home gaming consoles. So much that sony felt it had to add it to its own system.

On topic: 360 all the way. I mean even square put FF13 on the 360 although it insisted it wasn't (or maybe that was just my friends trying to rationalize buying a ps3.) I think the problem is, the 360 doesn't sell all that well in Japan but I'm not sure about the PS3 either (cause we all know it doesn't sell over here) so you have to keep that in mind also.

[Olethros]

I think you meant something other than technological. The Wii is a huge step forward in terms of home gaming consoles. So much that sony felt it had to add it to its own system.

:bs:

We've had motion sensing technology for years now. Technologically, it's the inferior product. This is not the part that's up for debate, this is the fact protion of my posts.

It had one hell of a gimmick, it had incredible marketing, and it had a frothing-at-the-mouth rabid fan base waiting to jump on whatever Nintendo was going to give them next. That's whats selling Wiis, not it's technological "superiority".

[diosisback]

Wii has crappy graphics and the wiimote is annoying in most games.... 360 is doing better in Japan than its predecessor, but not enough for an exclusive.

PS3 would have the most sales and it would look and play as it should.

[elmagicochrisg]

I think you meant something other than technological. The Wii is a huge step forward in terms of home gaming consoles. So much that sony felt it had to add it to its own system.

:bs:

We've had motion sensing technology for years now. Technologically, it's the inferior product. This is not the part that's up for debate, this is the fact protion of my posts.

It had one hell of a gimmick, it had incredible marketing, and it had a frothing-at-the-mouth rabid fan base waiting to jump on whatever Nintendo was going to give them next. That's whats selling Wiis, not it's technological "superiority".

You are so right...

Dreamcast for one already had motion sensing years ago. The fishing rod that could be used in Soul Calibur and the maracas in Samba the Amigo. Now THAT was innovation back in the days!...

I personally HATE the way Nintendo has treated its original fanbase. Going for the girls, grannies, five-year-olds and fitness idiots instead of the real gamers. And yes, I was indeed a Nintendo fan back in the Super Nintendo days. RIP Nintendo seal of quality. Building sandcastles with Konami is the future! Woohoo!... Or should that be Wiihii!...

Anyways, I'm getting off-topic here. What future system you say?...

1. On a 360 that doesn't give me a Ring of Death after a while...
2. On a reasonably priced Ps3 that reinstates backwards compatibility...
3. On Dreamcast (2)...
4. On a new Nintendo machine...

Sigh, enough reasons why I'm into retro gaming nowadays...

Personally I think Xbox360 would be the best choice. Nice graphics, nice console price tag, growing fan base, and a good way to start selling 360's in Japan.

Peace.

[Crabman]

Sure. First, I'm not saying a single RPG. That's fine. I'm more concerned over the big picture. Something along the lines of how the bulk of RPGs ended up on the PS2 (which was actaully a good thing, but that's somewhat tangential and for a different time).

The Wii is a gimmick, pure and simple. Its large install base is articficially inflated. I know of at least a dozen people who have purchased it because it was the hot new must-have item (either for themselves or for their little kids) and have never bought any games other than Wii Fit. These are just from my department, which is a small part of my division, which is a small part of an enormous institution. I believe this is a good representative sample of the population as opposed to a possible fluke.
Obviously, I realize that my argument is based off of anecdotal evidence, and if anyone has hard numbers (ATTENTION SEI: big hole to drive your truck-o'facts through! ;)) I'd be more than happy to re-evaluate the situation.

Anyway, the inflated install base is barely interested in purchasing even mainstream third party titles. They'll never go for most JRPGs or SRPGs. This leads to poor sales and game company execs re-thinking the economic viability of bringing over more niche titles. Just like a decade ago.

There. Is that enough elaboration for you?

Ahh, I see what you mean now. The Wii fanbase can't support, say, an FF or DQ or SMT because as shown pretty obviously last gen, there are alot less hardcore gamer Nintendo fans than there are hardcore gamer Sony fans. That being said, I think if the Wii gets big enough it would be financially sound to put something on Wii eventually.

[Kakizaki]

The Wii is a huge step forward in terms of home gaming consoles.

Huh?

Olethros already summed it up. I love Nintendo, but the Wii is hardly a huge step forward.

[StrikeRaider]

Hell if I remember the DC having a fishing rod. I played it for the fighting games. And that was the genius of the Wii, getting 5 year olds, moms, and old people playing video games. Never underestimate the power of advertising to casuals!

The most expensive PS3 has backwards compatibility. But I'm sure you knew that so I will agree they need a cheaper one with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they released a SMT on both consoles.

[Tsuko]

Wii has crappy graphics and the wiimote is annoying in most games.... 360 is doing better in Japan than its predecessor, but not enough for an exclusive.

PS3 would have the most sales and it would look and play as it should.

I think the DS should have a Persona/SMT game, having Dual Screens would work out good because you could have the map open 100% of the time

I have gotten lost on Revelations Persona so many times
Atlus of Japan really do full remakes of SMT 1,2,If,Persona and or Persona 2 IS/EP
If those happen to sell well, then the chances of them making their way over here would be very high

Other older rpgs have gotten remakes
Final Fantasy III, IV, Dragon Quest IV,V,VI, Star Ocean, Star Ocean2

[DevilRy]

The reason the Wii is the defacto number 1 isn't because of technology or rabid fan base. It's because of the Virtual Console. Sony and Xbox have theirs but Nintendo owns the rights to some of the best video games in console history, it's just common sense. That said, I love the Wii, if only for that reason. It's far cheaper than the PS3 and 360 and honestly neither one has a game on it yet that has struck me as interesting. The controls are usually pretty intuitive, although it depends on the game (I.E. Alone in the Dark), but no console has been without its boners.

[Tsuko]

The reason the Wii is the defacto number 1 isn't because of technology or rabid fan base. It's because of the Virtual Console. Sony and Xbox have theirs but Nintendo owns the rights to some of the best video games in console history, it's just common sense. That said, I love the Wii, if only for that reason. It's far cheaper than the PS3 and 360 and honestly neither one has a game on it yet that has struck me as interesting. The controls are usually pretty intuitive, although it depends on the game (I.E. Alone in the Dark), but no console has been without its boners.

very true

[Rikuo]

I would go with the Wii because i would love to see what they do with the interface and controls. Also a DS version of the older games would be awesome and worth playing. Touch Screen Battles for the win!!! Oh and if it was possible Persona 5 online? Social Links with that distant friend in across the Sea? =D

Oh and the 360 because some Persona eye candy is nice <33.

[James Fiend]

I know nothing of the business end of the console wars. I just know that well designed and innovative non-port Wii games are the best I've played. Even Spiderman was fun, using the wii-mote and nun-chuck to web-sling around the city was a good example of how these controls should be exploited.

[Imnus]

Well, I hope it's for the PS3. I really hope Atlus can make a game that is not only refreshing but also a technical masterpiece. I know Atlus isn't known for that, but seeing how they're getting bigger and bigger, now not only in Japan but also in the West, I would like they begin making bigger games also.

[QBasic]

360? Seriously? You guys what another NINE, is that it? =_=

[bullman422]

PS3! Only because it is the next system I will eventually own. :D

[Azriel Crusnik]

I hope everyone agrees with me when I say this, but there should be an equal balance of games between gaming systems to keep the consumer happy.

[Crabman]

^Well yes, but it seems like the strategy last gen was to develop one engine and use that in all the games, as what happened for Nocturne, DDS, P3, P4, RK, etc. And it seemed to have work for them, although today with the increased proliferation of third-party engines like UE3, it could definitely be a possibility to have a 360/PS3 split, and perhaps and upgraded version of the P3 engine for a Wii game.

[dunno001]

The Wii is a gimmick, pure and simple. Its large install base is articficially inflated. I know of at least a dozen people who have purchased it because it was the hot new must-have item (either for themselves or for their little kids) and have never bought any games other than Wii Fit. These are just from my department, which is a small part of my division, which is a small part of an enormous institution. I believe this is a good representative sample of the population as opposed to a possible fluke.
Obviously, I realize that my argument is based off of anecdotal evidence, and if anyone has hard numbers (ATTENTION SEI: big hole to drive your truck-o'facts through! ;)) I'd be more than happy to re-evaluate the situation.

I did not see this answered in this thread, so I will go ahead and do so. All numbers used in totals represent millions of units.

Wii's sales are 33.8 on hardware, and 144 on games. (Wii Sports is NOT included in this figure. I have already factored that out, which also has the effect of ignoring any sales of the game in Japan.) I've tried to see people assert that 67% of Wii owners don't buy extra games; for the sake of simplicity, I am going to shave that number down to 50%. This means that 16.9 million people have bought 144 million games. This would be a little over 8.5 bought games per "active" gamer. Contrast this to 21.6 / 154.5 on the 360 (attach rate 7.15) or 16.1 / 77.4 on the PS3 (attach rate 4.82). Thus, the "active" Wii gamers buy more games, and this is a good thing for developers. (Plus having more gamers than the PS3 probably doesn't hurt things...)

What about on a shorter-term? For w/e 10/17/08, the Wii sold 60K more games (again, ignoring Wii Sports) than the 360. Helping 360 sales was the launch of both Saints Row 2 and Dead Space. Zealous Wii game buyers? I'll go from full numbers.

The Wii sold just over 2.1 million in that week. Keeping it at 50% inactive, that means the rest buy, on average, a new game every 8 weeks, or 6.5 games a year. While many of us may think this as normal, going by the attach rates, it clearly is not normal to do so for every year. rather, this falls closer to a lifetime for a system. Thus, more than 16.9 million, or only half the Wii's owners, must be buying games. I won't deny that some of them are being sold to people who only play Wii Sports, but the PS3 has the same hurdle: it's a cheap Blu-Ray player! But if we want to reinclude Wii Sports and consider all system sales for the Wii, it still has an attach rate of 5.15, still higher than the PS3, so even the ones who never get another game still statistically buy more than your average PS3 owner.

Now, back to the thread topic at hand. For P5, I'd love to see that come out for the Wii. Given that Atlus isn't known for being one of the "huge" developers (ala S-E, EA, etc), they do consider the home market of Japan first. 360 sales over there are abyssmal; the install base is too small given the numbers that typically sell over there. P4 has sold just over 305K units, to a system with an install base of 22.7 million, or just over 1% of owners. If I double this to 2% to factor people who would buy a 360 in Japan, 2% of the 360's userbase is about 15K. I somehow doubt that would even be enough to break even on sales. Oh, and let's not forget SMT: Nine, which sold about 50K for the original X-Box in Japan. The PS3, while it has 3.5 times the number of systems, is notoriously hard (and expensive) to develop for, and thus harder to profit on. The Wii, at 6.9 million, has by far the largest base (almost thrice the PS3), so that even if I bring back the 50% inactive factor, it still has the most potential buyers, and with a lower dev cost than either 360 or PS3, the easiest to profit on. Not to mention that if they do decide to innovate something with the controls, it's already in everyone's household who owns the system. (Non pack-in peripherals don't do so well, both Nintendo and Sega know this.) Oh, and Atlus seems to have had some luck with the Wii; it holds the only game published by them in recent history to break half a million. (Trauma Center: Second Opinion).

As for the portables, truthfully, I could see it going either way. I personally would love to see remakes of 1 and 2 (both 2's?) for the DS, though I could also see a PSP possibility. Though again, with a majority of the remakes going to the DS, I think the audience would be larger there. Mind you, I'm not saying the PSP one would flop.

[Olethros]

Um, OK, wow. Wasn't really expecting that. I applaud you're effort and all, but there is simply too much there for me to break down while at work.

I will say this, though: This may not be the case here (I have no idea since I won't take the time to delve into it) but ALL statistics can be skewed to favor whatever cause you're trying to support.

[Gorgon]

I don't know if you guys/gals saw this a few weeks ago regarding Atlus and TGS: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/917/917999p1.html

excerpt:

"October 9, 2008 - In addition to offering up a few beta details that were already known, Sony did manage to tell us something new about HOME today at its Tokyo Game Show press conference. And we certainly like what we heard. The company revealed that 24 game companies have signed on to produce Home content.

The list has most of the major players included, with just a few exceptions (cough -- Square Enix -- cough). Here's a look:

Irem Software Engineering
Activision
Acquire
Atlus
...

Basically it means that Atlus is officially supporting the PS3. What that means for the Persona spin-off or SMT series in general is anyone's guess. What is not open for discussion is that something will come from Atlus to the PS3. Personaly I believe it will be a SMT game in whatever form or spin-off.

By the way, it's my first post here ;)

[jj984jj]

Aw, poll closed. Oh well, the 360 won anyway. :D

Well, tied with DS but it's already getting a new Megaten game or it doesn't really need Persona.

360? Seriously? You guys what another NINE, is that it? =_=

Why, is the next Persona outsourced to Nex? :\

Basically it means that Atlus is officially supporting the PS3. What that means for the Persona spin-off or SMT series in general is anyone's guess. What is not open for discussion is that something will come from Atlus to the PS3. Personaly I believe it will be a SMT game in whatever form or spin-off.
Atlus hasn't really been hiding that they're recruiting and are developing something for next-gen consoles.

[Gorgon]

Atlus hasn't really been hiding that they're recruiting and are developing something for next-gen consoles.

True. But there has been tons of discussion about PS3 support, or just 360 support, etc. This just confirms that Atlus IS indeed supporting the PS3 beyond any doubt.

[Sei]

Does Atlus Japan even have any 360 projects announced? Atlus USA releasing overpriced localizations of other company's games does not equal Atlus Japan x360 support.

[jj984jj]

No, Atlus co. hasn't announced any actual HD projects or games yet.

[StrikeRaider]

As long as my PS2 doesn't break they can release as many ps2 games as they want. People look at me funny when I say I still buy ps2 games.

[Olethros]

As long as my PS2 doesn't break they can release as many ps2 games as they want. People look at me funny when I say I still buy ps2 games.

I actually agree with you on this somewhat. It keeps the price of the games down, and I'm all for keeping things on the PS2 if it means less migration over to the portable systems.

[Gorgon]

The sooner they start releasing for the "new" systems the better. They can keep releasing for the PS2 but competition is only going to get stronger and by the time they move there will be too many RPGs on the new consoles for the SMT games to gather much attention. Now would be a good time, specially for the PS3. Less competition = more attention to any new RPG that comes out. And Atlus, as any publisher, wants to grab as many new customers as possible. That's NOW, in my opinion. And in the 360 case, there's already a lot of high profile/big budget JRPGs out there. That means that it will be harder for ATLUS to grab the attention of that crowd. The PS3 on the other hand is starving for RPGs, high budget or not.

I hope something comes up in 2009 for the PS3, or else ATLUS is just going to have to rely on the same customer base they have now on the PS2 and hope they move to the PS3. By Q4 2011 the PS4 will be out, and so will the Xbox Whatshername, make no mistakes about that.

[Soushi_Grapple]

PS3, Wii, or 360 IMO

The idea of Megaten being portable sounds a little complicated.

[GFSummoner]

I don't know if you guys/gals saw this a few weeks ago regarding Atlus and TGS: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/917/917999p1.html

excerpt:

"October 9, 2008 - In addition to offering up a few beta details that were already known, Sony did manage to tell us something new about HOME today at its Tokyo Game Show press conference. And we certainly like what we heard. The company revealed that 24 game companies have signed on to produce Home content.

The list has most of the major players included, with just a few exceptions (cough -- Square Enix -- cough). Here's a look:

Irem Software Engineering
Activision
Acquire
Atlus
...

Basically it means that Atlus is officially supporting the PS3. What that means for the Persona spin-off or SMT series in general is anyone's guess. What is not open for discussion is that something will come from Atlus to the PS3. Personaly I believe it will be a SMT game in whatever form or spin-off.

By the way, it's my first post here ;)

Yay! I would hate to have to buy multiple consoles. Just for one game pretty much.

[Enzo_Kensei]

I would like to foresee that Persona 5 will make its appearance in the Wii because like what some of you said, its the current leader and has the greatest number of sales(as of now). The cost production of wii DVD's is also much cheaper compared to PS3. So yeah, Wii wins for me. But when it comes to hand held Persona 5, I would prefer PSP over DS because of the graphical capabilities of the PSP. I would not want to Persona 5 to look dated like the DS's graphics. PSP also has a larger screen and the interface is similar to its PS2 counterparts.

[slayn]

Third party titles almost universally sell like crap on the Wii. It has the highest installed base by a long shot, but an abnormally high number of those people bought it because it's a fad, and haven't bought a single game for it, or only something like Wii Fit.

Atlus would be much better served going with either (or both) of the other two consoles. I believe the 360 is still slightly ahead in installed base, but the PS3 is catching up and they'll likely be tied within a year.

[Olethros]

^ Wise words, my friend. Good luck, though, since I said pretty much the exact same thing earlier in the thread and people got all upset over it.

[Kakizaki]

I would like to foresee that Persona 5 will make its appearance in the Wii because like what some of you said, its the current leader and has the greatest number of sales(as of now). The cost production of wii DVD's is also much cheaper compared to PS3. So yeah, Wii wins for me. But when it comes to hand held Persona 5, I would prefer PSP over DS because of the graphical capabilities of the PSP. I would not want to Persona 5 to look dated like the DS's graphics. PSP also has a larger screen and the interface is similar to its PS2 counterparts.

I would like to foresee that the next Persona project is put on the back burner in favor of a true SMT installment -- the farthest back burner on the stove. At least that way I can know for sure whether this series post Nocturne is really dead to me or not.

[Enzo_Kensei]

^ what do you mean? :)

[Vampirate]

As much as I love Nintendo to death, a Wii SMT just doesn't seem...wise. Until they put their massive profits to creating supped-up Wii/New system, the Wii is just a party system for friends. The PS3 seems the natural choice for future games to me. I cannot imagine an SMT game, even an exceedingly goofy spin-off, landing on the 360. That's partly because I'm biased against the bloody machine and partly because of how NINE went, or didn't as the case may be.

[slayn]

That's partly because I'm biased against the bloody machine...

You might want to get over that since the 360 is quickly becoming the de facto Japanese RPG console.

[Enzo_Kensei]

^ I couldn't agree more. :)

[dunno001]

Admittingly an SMT game for the 360 would probably push me off the fence into getting a 360. However, it wouldn't be enough to get me interested in a PS3, since there's so little for that system that interests me. Though I would still prefer a Wii version if it stays to the home consoles...

[Gorgon]

You might want to get over that since the 360 is quickly becoming the de facto Japanese RPG console.

True, but then again, all JRPGs on the 360 have been (are are going to be) the japanese equivalent to western stuff like Oblivion and Mass Effect. I don't see the 360 fans exactely salivating for stuff like Nocturne, Persona, Baroque, Eternal Poison, etc. That crowd is probably more into the PS3.

As for the Wii, forget about it. It would sell miserably. As someone said here, it's a party machine with piss-poor attach rate. Better put SMT on the DS (as they are doing with Devil Survivor).

[frequency]

It's probably just me but... my hands get tired after awhile when I play with the 360 controller... Either console is OK by me, though I would prefer PS3.

[Arcana]

PSP would be a nice shot IMHO, but maybe only for some remakes or portings. PS3 also is not a bad idea, but the X360 works better in graphics than the sony black box, so I'd rather see a Persona game on X360 in the future.

[Esoteric]

Persona 5,6,7 would all be great if they used the ps2 PERSONA 3: IT'S LIKE I'M JAPANESE engine and ported it to the 360. Unfortunately, you all know I'm right.

[THEWINE]

What the #### are you talking about.

[thealchemistoftime]

okay..

[slayn]

You might want to get over that since the 360 is quickly becoming the de facto Japanese RPG console.

True, but then again, all JRPGs on the 360 have been (are are going to be) the japanese equivalent to western stuff like Oblivion and Mass Effect. I don't see the 360 fans exactely salivating for stuff like Nocturne, Persona, Baroque, Eternal Poison, etc. That crowd is probably more into the PS3.

No, that crowd is likely into the 360 since more games like the ones you mentioned, i.e. JRPGs and SRPGs, have come out on the 360.

[Soushi_Grapple]

Most people want the 360 because it has better graphics, but honestly, compared to the Wii and PS3, it has the most RPGS = <3

[Kakizaki]

^Better graphics? I don't think a real distinction can be made in favor of one over the other in regards to 360 vs PS3.

[Arcana]

^Better graphics? I don't think a real distinction can be made in favor of one over the other in regards to 360 vs PS3.

PS3 uses an HDR lower than that used by the 360 so in most games the graphics are better in 360 versions (or at least that's what I saw on my 360 compared on my friend's Ps3).

[Gorgon]

You might want to get over that since the 360 is quickly becoming the de facto Japanese RPG console.

True, but then again, all JRPGs on the 360 have been (are are going to be) the japanese equivalent to western stuff like Oblivion and Mass Effect. I don't see the 360 fans exactely salivating for stuff like Nocturne, Persona, Baroque, Eternal Poison, etc. That crowd is probably more into the PS3.

No, that crowd is likely into the 360 since more games like the ones you mentioned, i.e. JRPGs and SRPGs, have come out on the 360.

There's JRPGs and then then there's JRPGs. The Last Remnant, Lost Odissey, etc, are quite far from the SMT games, Baroque, Poison Pink, whatever. That's like saying that fans of Baldur's Gate, isometric RPGs like fallout 1 and 2, Diablo, etc, all prefer having a 360 over a PC just because there's more high profile RPGs on the 360 than on a PC.

As for the SRPGs on the 360, how much did they sell? It's a matter of selling, not how many are there from 20 diferent companies.

Don't forget that MS is trying to grab the big movers like Square-Enix and stuff like high-profile, big budget JRPGs. It's not like they're going to pay for exclusivity for Persona or main SMT. If Atlus is smart, they either go for both consoles or simply go for the PS3.

[Gorgon]

PS3 uses an HDR lower than that used by the 360 so in most games the graphics are better in 360 versions (or at least that's what I saw on my 360 compared on my friend's Ps3).

The PS3 is difficult to program for and take advantage of. The weaker GPU doesn't help either although with the aid of the Cell you could overcome some weaknesses. Still that means more development time, better and smarter programmers, bigger teams, more money. Sony should have put a conventional CPU in the PS3, save a lot of money in the process, and invest in more memory and a better GPU instead. Now it's too late.

BUT with in-house development the PS3 can get a slight edge over the 360. I think Killzone 2 and God of War 3 are going to show that. Unfortunately, the budget and know-how for those games are far from what is available for most third party developers.

On the other hand, you are forgeting that Atlus isn't exactely known for bleeding egde graphics. Persona 3 and 4 look good but that has more to do with stylistic and artisct direction than anything else. I don't think that developing for the 360 would make the graphics better (assuming the 360 had better graphics capability) since the graphics would be very far from pushing either the 360 or PS3, so that's a mute point.

[Tsuko]

Persona 5,6,7 would all be great if they used the ps2 PERSONA 3: IT'S LIKE I'M JAPANESE engine and ported it to the 360. Unfortunately, you all know I'm right.

no, Persona should return to its roots with the contact system that was last seen in Persona2 Eternal Punishment

thats the main thing thats missing from Persona 3 and 4, Nocturne had it
and I would want to see a fps hack and slash SMT on the Wii

[Gorgon]

I honestly just whish Atlus would get their act together and anounce SMT for this gen of consoles. The PS2 is great but this is starting to get ridiculous. The Xbox 720 and PS4 are coming out by late 2011 (you can bet on that) and I don't want to wait until 2010 to get a game on the PS3/360.

[slayn]

There's JRPGs and then then there's JRPGs. The Last Remnant, Lost Odissey, etc, are quite far from the SMT games, Baroque, Poison Pink, whatever. That's like saying that fans of Baldur's Gate, isometric RPGs like fallout 1 and 2, Diablo, etc, all prefer having a 360 over a PC just because there's more high profile RPGs on the 360 than on a PC.


As a matter of fact, this would be the case if it were actually true. If the 360 could offer more of the experience western-style RPGs fans were used to, i.e. open worlds, full character customization, and user-created mods, then that particular group would be jumping all over the 360 so fast that... Well, so fast that the Wii's lead wouldn't be quite so large.

However, that last part in bold is something that consoles won't be offering for a few more generations at least, and is probably the single most important thing to fans of western RPGs. Fans of Japanese RPGs, though, are getting everything they want with the 360 right now. In fact, I daresay that you need to be a bigger fan of JRPGs, and Japanese culture itself, than the average fan to enjoy games like the Persona series because they're much more steeped in the idiom of the genre and the culture.

I'll grant your point on SRPGs, though, but do bear in mind that that's a genre that's never really broken any sales records, or hell even sold very much at all, outside of the Final Fantasy Tactics titles.

[frequency]

Bah, I vote for non-exclusivity. Let both the PS3 and 360 have it (screw the Wii :p I'd like my Persona without waggle please).

PS3 isn't difficult to program for btw. It's just that people don't take the time (resources...) to learn. I did a bit of research on the cell architecture for a class a few years back. It's just that the 360 is easier to dev for because it's pretty damn near close to doing standard dx stuff on PC. Granted, this is all research. I'm not a game dev, so I could be completely off :p

[slayn]

PS3 isn't difficult to program for btw. It's just that people don't take the time (resources...) to learn. I did a bit of research on the cell architecture for a class a few years back. It's just that the 360 is easier to dev for because it's pretty damn near close to doing standard dx stuff on PC. Granted, this is all research. I'm not a game dev, so I could be completely off :p

That would make the PS3 difficult to develop for by comparison, and people, including game developers, are generally going to go with the path of least resistance unless there's a compelling reason ($$$) not to.

[frequency]

PS3 isn't difficult to program for btw. It's just that people don't take the time (resources...) to learn. I did a bit of research on the cell architecture for a class a few years back. It's just that the 360 is easier to dev for because it's pretty damn near close to doing standard dx stuff on PC. Granted, this is all research. I'm not a game dev, so I could be completely off :p

That would make the PS3 difficult to develop for by comparison, and people, including game developers, are generally going to go with the path of least resistance unless there's a compelling reason ($$$) not to.
Yes, it would be relatively "difficult", but the PS2 architecture wasn't as friendly as the XBox architecture either. And that ended up meaning absolutely nothing. Which also makes system power a moot point btw... Just wanted to say... Because everyone is always arguing about what's more powerful, or how A is easier to develop for than B. Bah. None of that ever means anything.

In any case, I'd be happy to see a next gen SMT title (Persona or otherwise) sooner than later, regardless of what platform it's on, even if it's the Wii. I'd cry and moan and bitch while I'm flailing my arms like an idiot, but I'd still be happy.

[slayn]

In any case, I'd be happy to see a next gen SMT title (Persona or otherwise) sooner than later, regardless of what platform it's on, even if it's the Wii. I'd cry and moan and bitch while I'm flailing my arms like an idiot, but I'd still be happy.

Agreed.

[Gorgon]

As a matter of fact, this would be the case if it were actually true. If the 360 could offer more of the experience western-style RPGs fans were used to, i.e. open worlds, full character customization, and user-created mods, then that particular group would be jumping all over the 360 so fast that... Well, so fast that the Wii's lead wouldn't be quite so large.

However, that last part in bold is something that consoles won't be offering for a few more generations at least, and is probably the single most important thing to fans of western RPGs. Fans of Japanese RPGs, though, are getting everything they want with the 360 right now. In fact, I daresay that you need to be a bigger fan of JRPGs, and Japanese culture itself, than the average fan to enjoy games like the Persona series because they're much more steeped in the idiom of the genre and the culture.

I'll grant your point on SRPGs, though, but do bear in mind that that's a genre that's never really broken any sales records, or hell even sold very much at all, outside of the Final Fantasy Tactics titles.


Yes, but my point is the 360 DOESN'T give you an alternative to Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc (for now at least). The same can be said of the 360 regarding japanese SRPGs. The 360 is home to high profile FFantasy, Last Remnant, Lost Odissey, etc, type of games. There's nothing there to make it an alternative to either a PC or PS2 (or what USED to be "PC RPGs").

These things can change ofcourse, but what I'm saying is that looking at the 360 right now and it's available line of JRPGs, there's nothing there that makes it presumably a better platform for japanese SRPG over a PS3. The JRPGs and WRPGs on the 360 right now are on a totally diferent league from SMT or Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc.

The way I see it, there's as many chances to sell SMT in either console, but if I had to opt for only one I would put SMT on the PS3.

English is not my native language so sorry if I'm not making myself clear here.

[frequency]

As a matter of fact, this would be the case if it were actually true. If the 360 could offer more of the experience western-style RPGs fans were used to, i.e. open worlds, full character customization, and user-created mods, then that particular group would be jumping all over the 360 so fast that... Well, so fast that the Wii's lead wouldn't be quite so large.

However, that last part in bold is something that consoles won't be offering for a few more generations at least, and is probably the single most important thing to fans of western RPGs. Fans of Japanese RPGs, though, are getting everything they want with the 360 right now. In fact, I daresay that you need to be a bigger fan of JRPGs, and Japanese culture itself, than the average fan to enjoy games like the Persona series because they're much more steeped in the idiom of the genre and the culture.

I'll grant your point on SRPGs, though, but do bear in mind that that's a genre that's never really broken any sales records, or hell even sold very much at all, outside of the Final Fantasy Tactics titles.


Yes, but my point is the 360 DOESN'T give you an alternative to Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc (for now at least). The same can be said of the 360 regarding japanese SRPGs. The 360 is home to high profile FFantasy, Last Remnant, Lost Odissey, etc, type of games. There's nothing there to make it an alternative to either a PC or PS2 (or what USED to be "PC RPGs").

These things can change ofcourse, but what I'm saying is that looking at the 360 right now and it's available line of JRPGs, there's nothing there that makes it presumably a better platform for japanese SRPG over a PS3. The JRPGs and WRPGs on the 360 right now are on a totally diferent league from SMT or Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc.

The way I see it, there's as many chances to sell SMT in either console, but if I had to opt for only one I would put SMT on the PS3.

English is not my native language so sorry if I'm not making myself clear here.

Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia and even Star Ocean (at least previously) are lower profile JRPGs.
PS3 got an Eternal Sonata port, but... meh. The 360 has more than the PS3 has to offer so far. Besides the Eternal Sonata port, I can only think of 2 PS3 JRPG/SRPGs - Valkyria Chronicles (which didn't sell well), Disgaea (which also didn't sell that well).

The PS3 is my personal console of choice, but... all signs point to the 360 being home to JRPGs this generation. That's why I bought a 360 when Tales of Vesperia came out.

[StrikeRaider]

Well they probably didn't sell well because no one wants to buy a ps3. I'll say it again since we are still debating this for no reason. It's fine on the ps2 till mine breaks.

[dragonlife29]

In any case, I'd be happy to see a next gen SMT title (Persona or otherwise) sooner than later, regardless of what platform it's on, even if it's the Wii. I'd cry and moan and bitch while I'm flailing my arms like an idiot, but I'd still be happy.It doesn't have to have waggle, so I don't know why you're making it seem like the world's end :P (Yes, I know you said you'd be happy either way :P) If anything, it could be like Super Mario Galaxy where only one action's activated with waggle--in Persona's case, striking an enemy to get the upper hand, perhaps; of course, that would depend on if the series even keeps the same general format as 3 and 4.

Anyway, I want more Atlus-developed games for the Wii, other than just Trauma Center--like, an RPG. Trauma Center is great, of course, but I want Atlus to try an RPG on the Wii, SMT or not.

[frequency]

In any case, I'd be happy to see a next gen SMT title (Persona or otherwise) sooner than later, regardless of what platform it's on, even if it's the Wii. I'd cry and moan and bitch while I'm flailing my arms like an idiot, but I'd still be happy.It doesn't have to have waggle, so I don't know why you're making it seem like the world's end :P (Yes, I know you said you'd be happy either way :P) If anything, it could be like Super Mario Galaxy where only one action's activated with waggle--in Persona's case, striking an enemy to get the upper hand, perhaps; of course, that would depend on if the series even keeps the same general format as 3 and 4.

Anyway, I want more Atlus-developed games for the Wii, other than just Trauma Center--like, an RPG. Trauma Center is great, of course, but I want Atlus to try an RPG on the Wii, SMT or not.

Maybe I'm just lazy... but the prospect of having to shake my hand to attack makes me cry. I prefer to play my games laying on my bed, only having to move my thumbs, and on the rare occasion, my index and middle fingers.

But with that said, I did thoroughly enjoy Mario Galaxy... though I did bitch and moan my way through it. The collection whore in me didn't want to let any star bits go (even though they're so abundant that it really meant nothing to get them ¬.¬), so I was pointing all over the place.

[Gorgon]

Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia and even Star Ocean (at least previously) are lower profile JRPGs.
PS3 got an Eternal Sonata port, but... meh. The 360 has more than the PS3 has to offer so far. Besides the Eternal Sonata port, I can only think of 2 PS3 JRPG/SRPGs - Valkyria Chronicles (which didn't sell well), Disgaea (which also didn't sell that well).

The PS3 is my personal console of choice, but... all signs point to the 360 being home to JRPGs this generation. That's why I bought a 360 when Tales of Vesperia came out.

That is true, but Eternal Sonata, Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean are still broad appeal JRPGs, even if they are not as big as FF, LO, TLR, etc.

It's certainly possible that the 360 ends up beying the console of choice for every kind of JRPG this generation, from high profile to niche games. But I think it is too soon yet to be sure. Level-5 seems to be backing up Nintendo and Sony and leaving the 360 out of the equation (as far as I know) and to be honest Level-5 is comming up with far more interesting stuff than Square-Enix ever did IMHO (just look at Ninokuni and Ushiro or even on a diferent genre, Professor Layton). As for Atlus we know it's cooking something for the PS3. Will it be exclusive? No way to know yet, we have to wait for 2009 to get some info.

I do think that the 360 will end up having a bigger JRPG library than the PS3, but from a personal taste point of view there's nothing on the 360 at this point that I want at all nor is anything I want announced for the future. On the PS3 at least I know Level-5 and Atlus will be there and that's the companies I care for.

As for Valkyria and Disgaea not selling well, you have a point there.
Disgaea is not hard to understand I guess. It's a PS2 game compiled for a PS3. They should have just released it on the PS2 and leave it at that. And honestly, did any SMT game ever sell like hot cakes? Persona 3 and 4 are the ones changing that. I never expected Disgaea to be any different. It wouldn't have sold more if it was on a 360 either. The same can be said of Valkyria; there's more PS3s in Japan than 360s, if Valkyria didn't sell on the PS3 it woudn't sell more on the 360 either for sure (at least in Japan that is. It could have sold more in the US due to bigger installed base.)

I still think that Atlus should either go multiplatform or PS3 exclusive. I think they'll regret 360 exclusivity on the long run if they go that route. The PS3 will continue to catch up with the 360 sales wise and an excelent library of exclusives is starting to show up. I think the general public perception of the PS3 in 2009 is going to change quite a bit. And all that will also influence the RPG market in the future and how companies see their opportunities with either console.

I'm not a console fanboy, just a consumer who backs up whoever gives me what I want and value for my money. But believe me, by late 2009/2010 gamer's and 3rd party companie's perception of the PS3 will change substantially in a positive way. It's already changing.

[dragonlife29]

As for Atlus we know it's cooking something for the PS3. Will it be exclusive? No way to know yet, we have to wait for 2009 to get some info.
I was going to say, "We do?" but then I remembered this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/shinmegamitensei/news.html?sid=6132696&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title

I'm wondering if they left it wandering in Limbo, or if it's really taking this long.

...by late 2009/2010 gamer's and 3rd party companie's perception of the PS3 will change substantially in a positive way. It's already changing.The waiting game again, huh?

[StrikeRaider]

3 years ago? Unless they are making a MMO I don't think I've seen a game in development that long.

[Gorgon]

I was going to say, "We do?" but then I remembered this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/shinmegamitensei/news.html?sid=6132696&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title

I'm wondering if they left it wandering in Limbo, or if it's really taking this long.

...by late 2009/2010 gamer's and 3rd party companie's perception of the PS3 will change substantially in a positive way. It's already changing.The waiting game again, huh?

That 3 years old info by itself doesn't mean much. The interesting part is that at TGS this year Atlus was confirmed as one of the developers to support Home. Why would they suuport Home officialy unless they planned on releasing games for the PS3?

As for the waiting game, as I said, I'm not a fanboy of any company, so I'm not really waiting for anything except the games I want. Right now the 360 is getting, understandably, a lot more "love" from developers. It's easier to develop for, has been out a full year before the PS3, MS keeps investing on buying exclusives from 3rd parties, etc. But if you look at 2008 things are changing. There's no denying that this year 3rd parties have started to support the PS3 far more than before, not only in multiplatform titles but also in 3rd party exclusives. What does the 360 has for 2009 so far? Alan Wake (maybe)? Ninja Blade? Halo Wars? Compare to the PS3 with Heavy Rain, God of War 3, maybe the western version of Yakuza Kenzan and Yakuza 3, Demon's Souls, the new Team Ico project, Killzone 2, etc. There's certainly a lot of stuff for the 360 that has not yet been announced but then again the same can be said of the PS3. And obviously multiplatform support for the PS3 will continue increasing. EA for example has stated they they are giving full development attention to the PS3 and that they think the PS3 on the long run will outpace the 360 in software sales. They are even lead developing for the PS3 instead of the 360 and I expect more companies to follow the same route (not that I care for EA much though).

So basically I do think that 2009 will see a PS3 with a stronger line-up than the 360 in general terms and that will influence companies perceptions of the PS3, which will, on the long run, lead to further support of the platform. Don't forget that the 360 has only been 3 years on the market and the PS3 only 2 years (less than that in PAL territories in fact). Most of the games we consider the PS2 classics where released 4-7 years into the PS2's life-cycle. Two years from now I suspect the gaming landscape will be very different and that the PS3 will be in a far better place than what we think today.

[Aegis Ages]

I'd like it for the Wii, since I just got one.

[Rein]

I think when they move to next(current)-gen Atlus should go with non-exclusivity. They would be able to reach the widest audience and get a lot more exposure which would lead to Atlus having a lot more power in the industry. Though, I don't know if they really need that seeing as how they mainly go for the niche markets as it is...

[Kakizaki]

^I would not mind that, but I fear there would be an awfully large downgrade in the Wii version regarding graphics.

[slayn]

^I would not mind that, but I fear there would be an awfully large downgrade in the Wii version regarding graphics.

There's really no room for doubt on this; the Wii can't display at the same resolutions as the PS3 and 360, so if you're playing on an HDTV, the graphics for the Wii will, by necessity, be worse.

[Olethros]

^ Word.

[MwarriorHiei]

support for sony is (at least in my opinion) steadily growing. people have the conception that the ps3 has no good titles on it, and that is what is lagging sales. however, as it was stated before, this should soon change.

and anyways, why move SMT away from the brand its been supporting for years (sony)?

[slayn]

and anyways, why move SMT away from the brand its been supporting for years (sony)?

Because Microsoft has shown they are more than willing to park a truck full of money in developers' offices, and in the end, this is a business.

[sfried]

support for sony is (at least in my opinion) steadily growing. people have the conception that the ps3 has no good titles on it, and that is what is lagging sales. however, as it was stated before, this should soon change.

and anyways, why move SMT away from the brand its been supporting for years (sony)?
Because it never originally started out on the Sony brand? It's like those huge misconceptions of the Metal Gear franchise "belonging" to the Playstation by people brought up and brainwashed by the Playstation brand.

Let it follow suit and make its way to Wii or XB360, although I'm not so sure how HD would benefit a game developed with this buget, which is why Wii would be most likely (and given the fact that Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest have already made the move...).

[erwos]

I'll take the Wii, 360, or PS3 - just don't make it another DS or PSP game. That said, I'm guessing Atlus could get a pretty superlative deal from Microsoft - "stealing" Megaten from Sony (even if Sony "stole" it from Nintendo) would be a pretty big win, especially given the well-deserved praise Persona 3 and 4 have gotten.

[Tsuko]

^I would not mind that, but I fear there would be an awfully large downgrade in the Wii version regarding graphics.

The Wii has good graphic possibilities, look at the Gamecube and how good the remake of Resident Evil 1 looked, Imagine if that was SMT Nocturne instead of RE, The Gamecube was able to produce higher quality graphics then Xbox or Playstation2

[frequency]

^I would not mind that, but I fear there would be an awfully large downgrade in the Wii version regarding graphics.

The Wii has good graphic possibilities, look at the Gamecube and how good the remake of Resident Evil 1 looked, Imagine if that was SMT Nocturne instead of RE, The Gamecube was able to produce higher quality graphics then Xbox or Playstation2

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2866258

I never used to be a graphics whore... until I got a nice HDTV. The Wii just looks horrible in comparison. Not that I wouldn't play games on it, but your statement is bleh.

Note: I've been waiting to use that objection thing forever :D

[FangzV]

I think Persona should be on the Wii or DS.
Gee, I wonder why. xD
Dude, Persona on the Wii. That'd be awesome to shoot yourself in the head with the Wii Zapper to summon your Persona. XD It'd cause too much controversy though. D: And it'd feel weird.

I actually think it should be multi-platform. That way I can get it and non-Wii-owners can get it and non-360-owners and non-PS3-owners can all get it too.
In other words I'm pulling the card that takes all sides of the argument so I don't have to choose.

[sfried]

I never used to be a graphics whore... until I got a nice HDTV. The Wii just looks horrible in comparison. Not that I wouldn't play games on it, but your statement is bleh.Get component cables, and switch your setting from 480i to 480p. You'll notice a significant increase in image quality.

Back on topic: I do think it will eventually have to moveon to another platform other than PS2.

[Tsuko]

^I would not mind that, but I fear there would be an awfully large downgrade in the Wii version regarding graphics.

The Wii has good graphic possibilities, look at the Gamecube and how good the remake of Resident Evil 1 looked, Imagine if that was SMT Nocturne instead of RE, The Gamecube was able to produce higher quality graphics then Xbox or Playstation2

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2866258

I never used to be a graphics whore... until I got a nice HDTV. The Wii just looks horrible in comparison. Not that I wouldn't play games on it, but your statement is bleh.

Note: I've been waiting to use that objection thing forever :D

I dont have a HDTV and dont plan on ever having on until prices drop

[frequency]

I never used to be a graphics whore... until I got a nice HDTV. The Wii just looks horrible in comparison. Not that I wouldn't play games on it, but your statement is bleh.Get component cables, and switch your setting from 480i to 480p. You'll notice a significant increase in image quality.

Back on topic: I do think it will eventually have to moveon to another platform other than PS2.

I have component cables (bought it the same time I bought my HDMI cables in fact... monoprice.com). It still looks significantly worse than my PS3 and 360.

[Fuyukaze]

While I'd like to see the series continues on any of the systems I currently support, I can see where the series could make the jump to one that I dont just as well. The biggest problem I see for Atlus Japan making the jump to PS3 is development costs. With Atlus being more a nich title company and the SMT/Persona series falling in as such, it would be very hard to argue the expenses of releasing the series on a system it would doubtfully push the hardware limits of, let alone even come close to aproaching a quarter of. Releasing for the 360 could be good but could be bad as well. Has any Atlus titles ever proven to be good sellers on either of the x-box systems? In any region? Like it or not, my money's on the Wii or DS getting it before the PS3 but about even with the 360 getting it. The Wii would prove more profitable and the franchise would bring a great deal to the table for Nintendo but it could also detract from the franchise as well. Some people will always view the Wii as a kids system reguardless of what's released for it and will view any series on it with the same contempt. Doesnt matter if the game's mature or not. Either way, speculate all you want, only Atlus Japan knows the next move and so far they aint saying.

[slayn]

I never used to be a graphics whore... until I got a nice HDTV. The Wii just looks horrible in comparison. Not that I wouldn't play games on it, but your statement is bleh.Get component cables, and switch your setting from 480i to 480p. You'll notice a significant increase in image quality.

Going from 480i to 480p is a nice jump, but it still looks like crap compared to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.

[Tsuko]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megami_Tensei

Look at some of the games listed for 2007 and some tba under 2009

[sfried]

Going from 480i to 480p is a nice jump, but it still looks like crap compared to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.At least it won't make it look horrible.

[Hyperactive]

I personally think it should go multi platform, and it should definitely involve the xbox 360. Sony made a huge blunder with their playstation this generation, and it allowed the xbox to become a better rpg system than the ps3, to date. I am buying an xbox 360 for a lot of different reasons, those reasons being....

1. Price....Sony screwed the average players by forcing us to play for a blue ray player, so I am not paying for a blue ray player.

2. Final fantasy going multi platform wasn't a reason I was going to abandon playstation, but it did cement my decision to go to xbox, as I was already planning on buying it before the FF announcement.

3. Rpg's galore. To date, there are only 2 rpg's on the ps3 I want to play, well, strat rpg's. Those are Disgaea 3 and, uh, Valkyria Chronicles I think it was. I have absolutely no urge to play any other game on the console. There are far more on the xbox 360.

I just hope that if Atlus releases any future games on the ds or psp, the big games like SMT for instance, that it also releases versions on the consoles to. It makes me cry some nights to think that the next dragon quest is a ds exclusive.

[bluekamikaze]

It doesn't matter what system it is on i would buy it.. I would buy a system if i had to but I would rather them stay away from the hand helds I hate hand helds LOL

[Gorgon]

Well, I certainly woudn't buy a system just for one game. I never did and I doubt I'll ever do.

If that was the case I would buy a PSP just for Ushiro. Ain't happening.

On the other hand, I just bought a DS. Nice to see that list at wikipedia: Devil Survivor DS, plus Persona DS? Count me in!

[DamnedToBeFree]

You're not really gonna trust something on wikipedia, are you?

[Gorgon]

You're not really gonna trust something on wikipedia, are you?

Well...I can dream, can't I? :D

[Kenji]

Console brand-loyalty is pointless, this generation. There's too many good games spread across the systems to play the "my console is better than yours" crap. All three consoles will be mine eventually, so it really doesn't matter where Persona (or any other MegaTen) ends up: I'll get it.

With the market as-stands, if Atlus were to put the new Persona on the Wii, it would sell the most copies, especially in the home market. However, it's my hope that it'll be four to six years before P5, so the market might have changed by then (though I doubt the Wii will be unseated in sales), so the PS3 might be a good choice.

360's unlikely, though, unless unit sales pick up dramatically in Japan. People cite FFXIII's 360 version as proof that it's become a major contender in the home market, but ignore the fact it's still PS3-exclusive there. Atlus, meanwhile, doesn't really worry about the overseas market, so possible American sales are less of a concern to them than to Square-Enix.

[slayn]

With the market as-stands, if Atlus were to put the new Persona on the Wii, it would sell the most copies, especially in the home market. However, it's my hope that it'll be four to six years before P5, so the market might have changed by then (though I doubt the Wii will be unseated in sales), so the PS3 might be a good choice.

360's unlikely, though, unless unit sales pick up dramatically in Japan. People cite FFXIII's 360 version as proof that it's become a major contender in the home market, but ignore the fact it's still PS3-exclusive there. Atlus, meanwhile, doesn't really worry about the overseas market, so possible American sales are less of a concern to them than to Square-Enix.

As to your first point, you need to understand that the vast majority of people that have purchased a Wii won't give a damn about the next SMT game; they are casual and less-than-casual gamers that have been caught up in the fad. That's not to say a SMT game on the Wii won't do well, but it certainly isn't a guarantee just because the Wii had the largest install base.

For your second point, well, let me just say Tales of Vesperia. Furthermore, with the runaway successes of Persona 3 and 4, and the respectable, albeit lesser, successes with Nocturne and the DDS games (they sold well enough to warrant reprints), I'd say it's a safe bet that Atlus Japan is considering other markets a fair bit more than in the past.

[sfried]

As to your first point, you need to understand that the vast majority of people that have purchased a Wii won't give a damn about the next SMT game; they are casual and less-than-casual gamers that have been caught up in the fad.
That's a hasty assumption right there. Clearly there are already some serious titles for it and already more announced (Dragon Quest X and Monster Hunter 3 pretty much seals the deal). And also, I think the real fad here is making distinctions between "casual" and "hardcore".

It would make sense to release the Persona series on Wii given that it will introduce the most number of new players to the franchise.

[slayn]

That's a hasty assumption right there. Clearly there are already some serious titles for it and already more announced (Dragon Quest X and Monster Hunter 3 pretty much seals the deal). And also, I think the real fad here is making distinctions between "casual" and "hardcore".

It would make sense to release the Persona series on Wii given that it will introduce the most number of new players to the franchise.

No, a hasty assumption is assuming that any of the games you just named will sell well simply because more people own the Wii than any other console. I allowed that a SMT game on the Wii might do well, but I warned against assuming it would simply because so many people own the Wii.

And let's talk about those serious titles. Name one. Further, name one that broke into the top ten that wasn't made by Nintendo. For 2008, you have Guitar Hero 3, Guitar Hero Aerosmith, Rock Band, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and Guitar Hero World Tour. The NPD numbers for December might add another to that list, Rock Band 2, if it doesn't get pushed back into January. Notice any trends here?

Third party games simply do not sell well on the Wii if they don't involve you rocking out on plastic instruments. And I know I gimped that list by eliminating Nintendo-produced games, but really, Smash Brothers and Mario Kart are party games, not "serious" games, and if you try to count Wii Fit or Wii Play as "serious" games, the only reasonable response is to laugh at you.

The only "serious" games that have done well on the Wii are Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, and Mario Galaxy. All of those were produced by Nintendo. The big N is their own worst enemy for software sales, as they have been since the Gamecube.

[Gorgon]

Yeah, I agree with this. Bigger instaled base doesn't mean anything when we're talking about certain types of games. SMT on the Wii? Sure why not? Persona would even be the best bet. But I pretty much doubt it would sell well compared to, say, the PS3. And that with a MUCH smaller instaled base.

Whats the nº of sales for Baroque on the Wii compared to the PS2? Even with a far superior instaled base on the PS2 I think we can get an idea of how things would go for a SMT game on the Wii.

[sfried]

And let's talk about those serious titles. Name one. No More Heroes? The Resident Evil games? You're quick to write off the Wii as simply appealing to a "casual demographic" when clearly it has titles that are definately not party games.

Whats the nº of sales for Baroque on the Wii compared to the PS2? From what I've heard, Baroque sold more on Wii than on PS2.

[slayn]

I really wish there was a site* that tracked sales numbers for video games that fall outside of the top ten/twenty each month.


*VGChartz is retarded and does not count.

[Sei]

Whats the nº of sales for Baroque on the Wii compared to the PS2?

I know I bought it on the wii!

On a serious note, I think a reason for the lack of third party sales might be the lack of high profile third party games. I was trying to think of high profile releases for the Wii, and other than Nintendo games I sort of drew a blank. No Metal Gears, or final fantasies, or Gears (or equivalent high profile third parties stuff). Most of the third party stuff is pap like Horsez. Or bad ports like the Medal of Honor etc handicapped wii ports.

It then seems a bit hard to say that third party games do terrible on the Wii, when most stuff is ports and shovelware that would have done terribly anywhere. Games like Zack and Wiki, and No more heroes hardly strike me like they would have been blockbusters on another system (a puzzle game and a random brawler? How did killer 7 and samurai western godhand etc sell? in the millions?).

I'd buy a SMT for Wii. I also doubt it would do badly. Really looking forward for the RPGS and stuff being developed for it. I assume a lot of people do too.

I think if more third parties did innovative games that used the controls in interesting ways and weren't just watered down ports or random junk, they would sell a lot better. For example I got RE 4 for Wii, and I thought it benefited a lot from the remote.

[Gorgon]

I agree that the lack of serious third party support is the Wii's major problem. The DS has as much crap as the Wii (more actually) but there are a load of niche, serious, harcore games on Nintendo's little machine. There is no reason the Wii couldn't do the same. But then again, the DS has been around for 4 years.

And let's not forget that, as i said previously, the Wii has been around for only 2 years. The PS2 got its classics 4-5 years into its life, so its a bit too early to bash the Wii. It all depends on third parties. Also what the Wii needs is third party exclusive games, not downgraded versions of 360 and PS3 games.

[DrakenSilverwing]

PS3 gets my vote.. plus everyone i know that plays the series!
:agree:
i feel that system is in it for the long haul and will be around longer then the other consoles.. plus Persona and other Shin Megami Tensei Games are more hardcore then casual.. i wouldn't say go with the 360.. the user base in japan is not there.. and will never be.. Plus the persona series has always really been with the PS systems and people would expect it on the new systems.. the Wii.. yes it has a user base.. a big one... hard to ignore i know.. yet the gamers that would play this series are not really part of that user base.. its deffinetly not a game series for children.

[DivineTrinity]

Does the attache rate mean software sales? If it does mean that, I could of sworn the Wii has been breaking records for 1st party and 3rd party games.

[sfried]

the Wii.. yes it has a user base.. a big one... hard to ignore i know.. yet the gamers that would play this series are not really part of that user base.. its deffinetly not a game series for children.This is the kind of crap I simply do not understand. Nintendo already has several franchises that do aim at adults. The DS, particularly, with a Grand Theft Auto game already announced for it, and not to mention the point-and-click adventure genre that has been revived on the DS contained some rather mature themes (Another Code/Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk were excellent). And not to mention the stuff announced on the Wii like The Conduit and MadWorld...

The "Nintendo is for kids" days are over. Get over it. In fact, they pretty much don't censor stuff nowdays and let publishers do their own thing.

[Soushi_Grapple]

the Wii.. yes it has a user base.. a big one... hard to ignore i know.. yet the gamers that would play this series are not really part of that user base.. its deffinetly not a game series for children.This is the kind of crap I simply do not understand. Nintendo already has several franchises that do aim at adults. The DS, particularly, with a Grand Theft Auto game already announced for it, and not to mention the point-and-click adventure genre that has been revived on the DS contained some rather mature themes (Another Code/Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk were excellent). And not to mention the stuff announced on the Wii like The Conduit and MadWorld...

The "Nintendo is for kids" days are over. Get over it. In fact, they pretty much don't censor stuff nowdays and let publishers do their own thing.

Unless it comes to a new SMT game =p Really wish we could see Soul Hackers or P2:IS, but its not gonna happen for the meantime X.X

[DrakenSilverwing]

the Wii.. yes it has a user base.. a big one... hard to ignore i know.. yet the gamers that would play this series are not really part of that user base.. its deffinetly not a game series for children.This is the kind of crap I simply do not understand. Nintendo already has several franchises that do aim at adults. The DS, particularly, with a Grand Theft Auto game already announced for it, and not to mention the point-and-click adventure genre that has been revived on the DS contained some rather mature themes (Another Code/Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk were excellent). And not to mention the stuff announced on the Wii like The Conduit and MadWorld...

The "Nintendo is for kids" days are over. Get over it. In fact, they pretty much don't censor stuff nowdays and let publishers do their own thing.

No offense really.. yet i still stand by what i said.. if it comes out it will be rated M... and besides Resident Evil.. i can't really think of many other games that have done ok on the Wii with that rating.... and my question to you(or anyone for that matter) is.. if the next Persona would come out multiple platforms the PS3 and Wii.. and any other systems including handhelds ... AND it used the capabilities of each system.. which system would you rather play it on?

[dragonlife29]

The "Nintendo is for kids" days are over. Get over it. In fact, they pretty much don't censor stuff nowdays and let publishers do their own thing.

Unless it comes to a new SMT game =p Really wish we could see Soul Hackers or P2:IS, but its not gonna happen for the meantime X.XBut we've never gotten one, so how would you know that?



No offense really.. yet i still stand by what i said.. if it comes out it will be rated M... and besides Resident Evil.. i can't really think of many other games that have done ok on the Wii with that rating.... and my question to you(or anyone for that matter) is.. if the next Persona would come out multiple platforms the PS3 and Wii.. and any other systems including handhelds ... AND it used the capabilities of each system.. which system would you rather play it on?

Didn't No More Heroes do well? I'm extremely positive MadWorld is going to do well in retail as well (or rather, meet the publisher's expectations). Tenchu's not that big in the States, I don't think, so I don't know that it'll be huge, but it will have its audience (It'll be my first Tenchu). I'm not sure what The Conduit's rating'll be, but that'll be another title to look forward to.

Oh, and I'd probably buy it on Nintendo consoles to try and make an impact to let Atlus know that the series can do well on a Nintendo console! God, I am so hoping we get Devil Survivor...

Whats the nº of sales for Baroque on the Wii compared to the PS2?

I know I bought it on the wii!

I'd buy a SMT for Wii. I also doubt it would do badly. Really looking forward for the RPGS and stuff being developed for it. I assume a lot of people do too.
Same!

Gorgon, I'm also interested in seeing the comparison between the PS2 and Wii versions (along with Dokapon).

[Las Lobos]

PS3 gets my vote.. plus everyone i know that plays the series!
:agree:
i feel that system is in it for the long haul and will be around longer then the other consoles.. plus Persona and other Shin Megami Tensei Games are more hardcore then casual.. i wouldn't say go with the 360.. the user base in japan is not there.. and will never be.. Plus the persona series has always really been with the PS systems and people would expect it on the new systems.. the Wii.. yes it has a user base.. a big one... hard to ignore i know.. yet the gamers that would play this series are not really part of that user base.. its deffinetly not a game series for children.
Yeah Persona series wouldn't be good game on the Wii because people are making a big deal about "M" rated games on the Wii since it's supposedly a family gaming console they'd make a big deal about Persona coming to the console unless they changed the rating to "T" which wouldn't work for a Persona game I think.

[sfried]

Yeah Persona series wouldn't be good game on the Wii because people are making a big deal about "M" rated games on the Wii since it's supposedly a family gaming console they'd make a big deal about Persona coming to the console unless they changed the rating to "T" which wouldn't work for a Persona game I think.Who said anything about making Persona a "T" rated game on the Wii? Why are there lingering assumptions that it will get censored?

Didn't No More Heroes teach you anything? And what's this streak of new M-rated games coming out for the system?

[Gorgon]

Gorgon, I'm also interested in seeing the comparison between the PS2 and Wii versions (along with Dokapon).

Yeah, me too, but I don't know. :p

As for the Wii not beying the place for "mature" games, I disagree. The DS is pretty much marketed as the "My Pet Dolphin" and "America's Next Top Model" machine but still you get stuff like The Dark Spire, Theresia, Devil Survivor, Lux-Pain and others. Heck, it has better and more interesting stuff than the PSP will ever have. It's up for third parties and Nintendo to do something about it.

Beying myself a long time PC player (20+ years) that got his first console (a PS3) plus a PS2 and a DS recently, the DS is pretty much surprising me with the quality of games popping up all the time for the system. The Wii unfortunately seems like it is going the way of the Game Cube. And when the most cherished Nintendo franchises are Mario and Zelda I don't see much of a bright future for the Wii when it comes to attract people like me. Again, it's in the hands of Nintendo and the third parties to change that.

[MwarriorHiei]

that went way off topic.

just know that sony has the fanbase. megaten has been with the playstation for a long time now. i know it started on the NES, im not stupid, but it continued on the PSX. with 2 generations of consoles on its belt, i dont see why smt has to switch brand.

like i said, ps3 has the established fanbase.

[sfried]

just know that sony has the fanbase. megaten has been with the playstation for a long time now. i know it started on the NES, im not stupid, but it continued on the PSX. with 2 generations of consoles on its belt, i dont see why smt has to switch brand.To expand the fanbase? Look at Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest.

[Gorgon]

that went way off topic.

just know that sony has the fanbase. megaten has been with the playstation for a long time now. i know it started on the NES, im not stupid, but it continued on the PSX. with 2 generations of consoles on its belt, i dont see why smt has to switch brand.

like i said, ps3 has the established fanbase.


It doesn't have to switch brand. But it certainly can EXPAND to other brands. I don't see why it must remain exclusive or something. It's coming to the DS already, so I guess it's a mute point.

[slayn]

like i said, ps3 has the established fanbase.

Not really, as I and a few others have pointed out repeatedly in this thread. The PS2 has the fan base, but only a very, very small percent of PS2 owners have purchased a PS3.

And, like many companies, Atlus jumped ship from Nintendo to Sony when Nintendo started making poor choices with their consoles. Much like Sony has done this generation.

The only good choices are the 360 or multiplatform.

[Towel]

Customer loyalty is a fallacy. Only the deranged believe a fanbase is only willing to to play a particular game series as long as it's on a certain companies hardware. No third party game series belongs to any system. In reality, the true fans will simply follow where the series goes and pick up whatever system the company chooses to develop for.

Also, SMT is not a "mature" series. They pander to the middle/high schooler loser demographic, like all other Anime and JRPGs in Japan.

[SMTPersona4ever]

Well I guess there's no use speculating unless there's been an official statement or some evidence from Atlus... But why wouldn't ps2 owners buy ps3? I thought the ps3 has ps2 compatibility? LOL don't blame me for being retarded.. But I didn't really bother about PS3/XBox 360 generation of consoles ever since I started playing SMT/ DDS / Persona series on the PSX/PS2... I'm waiting for the next persona/ SMT series before purchasing a PS3, XBOX 360 or Wii..

[stray]

Unless Microsoft bankrolls the project I think the Wii is the safer bet unless the PS3 takes off with WKC and FFXIII. Although, Disgaea made it onto PS3 (not that I'd call it very "next gen") so it is possible they would go that route. DQ is going to be on Wii, and it has critical mass in pretty much every region. The 360 just doesn't have enough of a following in Japan, and Atlus just doesn't have Namco Bandai money to throw around into an exclusive flagship like Tales.

I'd love to see it on PS3 though, personally, fully cel shaded, with dual language tracks and all.

[Kakizaki]

^What does Disgaea have to do with SMT?

[Futomimi]

^ The latest installments are on the same par?

[stray]

^What does Disgaea have to do with SMT?

Nothing, per se, but so far it's the only PS2 RPG (well, SRPG) franchise that has really even tried to go PS3. Well... unless you count (cross)X Edge.

The RPG market is just really splintered right now; in Japan much less in the US... well except for the DS. I don't think I'd be able to hang for 100 hours on a DS, though...

[slayn]

The RPG market is just really splintered right now...

Quote for emphasis.

[Gorgon]

The only good choices are the PS3 or multiplatform.

Fixed.

When was the first SMT game published for the PS2? It was SMT:Nocturne in early 2003 in Japan, 3 years after the PS2 was launched also in Japan. The PS3 barely made 2 years, not even that in PAL territories. I think it's a bit to early to dig the PS3's grave. Add to that that the 360 has half the installed base of the PS3 in Japan and I honestly don't see why the hell is the 360 the best bet. The 360 sold better than the PS3 for 5 weeks and everyone is already singing victory. The latest hardware sales in Japan pretty much show that the 360 only outsales the PS3 during spikes for short periods. And don't fool yourself, Atlus makes games essentially for the japanese market still. That's why the PSP version of Devil Summoner isn't probably even going to make it over here. SMT games in the west are still little more than an afterthought, although the fan base is growing, especially with the rave reviews for P3 and P4. As for all the JRPGs on the 360, they are all there because of MS's money pouring in and nothing else. And I wouldn't compare Lost Odyssey, The Last Remant, Star Ocean, etc with SMT to illustrate 360's potential sales.

But thats just me. Just turn the damn games multiplatform or go for the PS3/PSP/DS. But then again, Atlus is a confirmed official PS3 Home developer so 360 exclusivity is already out of the question.

[Kakizaki]

^Do you really want to attempt to draw comparisons to the library the PS2 had in that same time frame? It isn't even close to the same.

[slayn]

As for all the JRPGs on the 360, they are all there because of MS's money pouring in and nothing else. And I wouldn't compare Lost Odyssey, The Last Remant, Star Ocean, etc with SMT to illustrate 360's potential sales.

These two statements clearly indicate that you have no idea how any business, let alone a game developing business, works.

[Tsuko]

I think a SMT game would be good on the Wii, it needs some turnbased rpgs

[Gorgon]

These two statements clearly indicate that you have no idea how any business, let alone a game developing business, works.

Do you really think all those exclusive JRPGs would be on 360 if it wasn't for MS backing them up with with deals? MS is, rightfully so, trying to push the 360 into the japanese market. It's not like any japanese developer would spend millions of US dollars to churn out AAA exclusives on the 360 with such a meager installed base in Japan.

As for Sony, they can only watch for now and hope for the best in the future since they can't give themselves the luxury of paying for exclusivity for a pile of titles like MS does. Still they managed to secure FFXIII exclusivity in Japan. That was with money, certainly not because of altruism on the part of Square-Enix.

Why do you think there's so many expensive JRPGs on the 360 for the japanese market when the 360 has such poor sales? Sympathy for MS? "Difficulty" in developing for the PS3?

With all due respect but game developing companies/publishers are in this business for the money. 360 in Japan is NOT the best bet with such poor hardware sales so clearly we're seying MS money here pushing those games into the market. I think you're the one not understanding business at all, specially game developing business.

Why do you thik games like Fallout 3 and GTA4 have exclusive downloadable content for the 360? Because you can't download it on PSN? MS even closed some of their studios recently and is focusing on paying for exclusives more than anything else. Doesn't that ring a bell to you? In the case of JRPGs the answer is the same. Money beyng paid for exclusivity and nothing else. Money to push your console sales. The only diference is that Sony has very strong first party studios while MS bets more on paying third parties for development of exclusive titles or on exclusive DLC and less on their own studios.

[Gorgon]

^Do you really want to attempt to draw comparisons to the library the PS2 had in that same time frame? It isn't even close to the same.


By the contrary. I'm stating that even in the case of the PS2, which was far more healthy than the PS3, SMT only made it to the console 3 years after release. It's just to soon to start crying that SMT is going to run away from the PS3.

But even with the weaker library the PS3 has compared to the PS2 in the same time frame, 2 years is just to soon to sing victory or defeat. Also, things are diferent this generation. The 360 is far more competitive than the Xbox 1 ever was, which swings the balance of support from third parties far more. Development cost are also far higher. And Sony's financial situation isn't exactely the best either. Most games on both platforms are the same, with only a few exclusives to make the diference. Either that or exclusive DLC paid for. Neither MS or Sony are going to be clear winners this gen. The only winner is Nintendo.

[Tsuko]

well put Gorgon

[Kakizaki]

I'm stating that even in the case of the PS2, which was far more healthy than the PS3, SMT only made it to the console 3 years after release. It's just to soon to start crying that SMT is going to run away from the PS3.

Then why compare the PS3 to a system that had a more robust line up, the PS2, in the same time frame in the first place? The initial reference really had no point.

[Gorgon]

Then why compare the PS3 to a system that had a more robust line up, the PS2, in the same time frame in the first place? The initial reference really had no point.

If a console like the PS2 that had a far better line up and was a far more sucessfull console at the same point in time as the PS3 still had to wait 3 years to get a SMT game, why would it be such a problem that the PS3 2 years into it's life still has no SMT game in it?

I'm not an english native speaker, but am I not beying clear here? The non-existance of a SMT game right now on the PS3, 2 years into its life-cycle, doesn't mean it won't come or that Atlus is having second thoughts about releasing on the system. The PS2 was for more sucessful, as you righfully indicated, and still SMT took 3 years to come. Thats all I'm saying.

SMT is perfectly on track for the HD systems, multiplatform or not. Of course I'd love to have a SMT4 or a new Persona already like everyone else who has a 360/PS3 but its not like it's long overdue or something.

I do believe that this gen things will take more time than with the PS2, because there are two big contenders and because development costs are far higher. Also we don't know what effects this economic crysis will have. But things are still on track when we compare to the PS2.

Was I clear this time or what? :p

[slayn]

Nah, you cleared things up Gorgon. I was just misunderstanding what you were saying. Sorry about that :).


In related news, it looks like the economy more than anything else is beating the snot out of the PS3.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123050978162738293.html

[Kakizaki]

If a console like the PS2 that had a far better line up and was a far more sucessfull console at the same point in time as the PS3 still had to wait 3 years to get a SMT game, why would it be such a problem that the PS3 2 years into it's life still has no SMT game in it?

I get what you are saying now.

[Gorgon]

Nah, you cleared things up Gorgon. I was just misunderstanding what you were saying. Sorry about that :).


In related news, it looks like the economy more than anything else is beating the snot out of the PS3.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123050978162738293.html

No problem. Glad things are cleared up.

Yeah, things ain't looking good for Sony.



I get what you are saying now.

Good. I guess sometimes I create strange structures for my sentences and I'm not sure I'm passing my point across.

[ClUeLeSs2*]

Man, heated battles up in here. As for me, I want a Persona for the PSP. Not to be off topic, but if god of war: chains of olympus was a very solid game and wasn't even using the PSP's true power then couldn't persona do the same? P4's battle system would fit perfectly into the PSP. Imagine you kicking beautifully rendured shadows' ass where ever you go! :surprise:

[mrfoxx]

PC, even if it is just a bad port, i would like too see it there.

[Fear Toxin]

I'm going to have to go with the Wii here as it is the lesser of the 3 evils. The Xbox 360 is an unreliable piece of junk and Playstation 3 is just not selling well for many reasons like it's large price tag and lack of quality AAA titles. When it comes to current gen consoles I currently only own the unreliable piece of junk Xbox 360 (which I plan on selling soon to buy more Playstation 2 stuff) so I would get a Wii if the SMT series went there.

[Enzo_Kensei]

Man, heated battles up in here. As for me, I want a Persona for the PSP. Not to be off topic, but if god of war: chains of olympus was a very solid game and wasn't even using the PSP's true power then couldn't persona do the same? P4's battle system would fit perfectly into the PSP. Imagine you kicking beautifully rendured shadows' ass where ever you go! :surprise:

I like idea. Also, PSP really is a good one for an RPG like Persona series to take place with. Imagine, fully rendered 3D like its PS2 counter parts. In, my opinion, I just don't like to take the series to PS3 yet.

[ClUeLeSs2*]

Man, heated battles up in here. As for me, I want a Persona for the PSP. Not to be off topic, but if god of war: chains of olympus was a very solid game and wasn't even using the PSP's true power then couldn't persona do the same? P4's battle system would fit perfectly into the PSP. Imagine you kicking beautifully rendured shadows' ass where ever you go! :surprise:

I like idea. Also, PSP really is a good one for an RPG like Persona series to take place with. Imagine, fully rendered 3D like its PS2 counter parts. In, my opinion, I just don't like to take the series to PS3 yet.

Thanks and for the people who dislike the psp for some reason, watch some vids of God of War: Chains of Olympus and then watch vids of the first two god of war games on the PS2, you wouldn't really tell the difference between the graphics and gameplay. I'M just saying that the PSP is capable of delivering a solid Persona game. Also, I agree with your PS3 comment, but then my mind just keeps thinking if like P4 had sooo much game in 1 PS2 disc, how much more game would there be if it was on 1 PS3 disc :)

[sfried]

If you're taking handhelds into consideration, why not DS?

[slayn]

If you're taking handhelds into consideration, why not DS?

Somewhat serious answer: There's already a DS SMT game in the works.

Humorous answer: People in this thread love the underdog system.

[ClUeLeSs2*]

well sfried, in my opinion, the DS doesn't have enough engine power to port games like P3 and P4 and still have the similar experience as it was on the PS2. Have you ever saw a DS game with the quality of P3 or P4? like their 3D models and such? I'm not saying it would be bad to like port it on the DS, but then you'd get a totally different experience.

[sfried]

well sfried, in my opinion, the DS doesn't have enough engine power to port games like P3 and P4 and still have the similar experience as it was on the PS2. Have you ever saw a DS game with the quality of P3 or P4? like their 3D models and such? I'm not saying it would be bad to like port it on the DS, but then you'd get a totally different experience.One needs not look further from Phantasy Star Zero to see excellent use of the DS's 3D hardware, but it's not the only example. Most of the games developed by Matrix Software look really impressive (Avalone Code, Final Fantasy III and IV remakes), and not to mention various action games (Dementium, Nanostray 2) that fancy 3D effects and models aren't impossible.

Of course, if all you're going by is the is the DS port of Disgaea, then I'd understand your point of view. Of course, power isn't everything, and I do believe they could make a Persona game from the ground up on the DS that would bring a familiar experience to a more accessible console, not to mention the elimination of load times.

And yes, I'm aware of the existence of Devil Survivor. I'm keenly waiting on the official US announcement.

[Enzo_Kensei]

Uhmmm, I have a suggestion to settle the DS and PSP problems. Although this may cost some money, why not develop a Persona game in the DS and PSP itself. Each of the versions has its unique features. maybe,

The DS supports innovation by cleverly using the stylus and touch screen technology in summoning personas maybe.

while

The PSP might be traditional like its PS2 counterparts but it supports sharper graphics and the gameplay is like that of the Persona 3FES/4 which gamers have learned to love.

But then again, its really up to Altus. Just my opinion. ^^

[Sei]

I'd much prefer PSP, I like the screen way better and usually hate stylus controls. Plus Atlus would probably have an easy time porting the PS2 engine that they seem to love to use.

Devil Survivor looks awesome, too, so who knows, depending on how that does they might already have decided on the DS as a platform. It seems a popular system these days.

[Fuyukaze]

I'm not crazy over the idea of SMT being on a handheld system. I'd rather it be on the Wii even though many would disagree with me.

[tokoshi_x]

I also say it should be on the Wii. Mainly because I own one and it gets a lot of playtime from me. If it were to be on a handheld, then the DS, also because its what I own. Though I wouldn't really want it to go onto a handheld and much preferred it on a console.

Wouldn't mind it being on the 360 if it happens, since my brother owns one. The PS3 or PSP though I wouldn't want it to be on since I don't own those. Maybe I'll get a PSP in the future, but I don't see myself getting a PS3 anytime soon.

[Sei]

I actually think the Wii is the most likely next gen system. Huge user base, lower development costs, ds compatibility, Atlus is already working with Nintendo, and the Wii is pretty strong in all regions. Atlus usually doesn't seem to go overboard on engines, so the ps3 and the 360 might be bad fits.

[slayn]

Huge user base, lower development costs, ds compatibility, Atlus is already working with Nintendo, and the Wii is pretty strong in all regions.

1.) As I have pointed out several times in this thread, the huge user base is absolutely meaningless when you look at the actual demographics it encompasses. Soccer moms and tween girls are not going to buy SMT games.

2.) Are you sure about the lower development costs? I mean, I guess they can save money in the art department since the game wouldn't need to be done with HD in mind...

3.) Compatibility between a console and a hand-held for actual in-game purposes is a gimmick that pretty much lives and dies with Pokemon games.

4.) Atlus is also already working with Sony and Microsoft, so this is a non-point.

5.) See point number one.


I think I finally see why I have so many issues with posters in this thread. I don't approach this situation from a personal standpoint. What I mean is, I don't have a particular preference which system a new SMT game is on since I own all of them, while a lot of posts in here are basically, "I want it on this system because that's the one I own." I'm looking at this question from the perspective of what I feel would garner the most sales (and thus money) for Atlus. Subjectivity versus objectivity, if you will.

[Kakizaki]

I actually think the Wii is the most likely next gen system. Huge user base, lower development costs, ds compatibility, Atlus is already working with Nintendo, and the Wii is pretty strong in all regions. Atlus usually doesn't seem to go overboard on engines, so the ps3 and the 360 might be bad fits.


What is taking so long then in regards to other companies at least? Why are we not seeing titles that appeal to certain demographics more frequently on the Wii?

[Sei]

I own all three systems, and I think I am fairly objective, I don't approach this thread with a personal standpoint either. As for dev costs see:

http://tech.commongate.com/post/Wii_Development_costs_a_quarter_to_half_compared_t o_PS3_360/
http://www.gamespot.com/wii/driving/cars/news.html?sid=6149154

"[The Wii] wasn't a whole new programming environment," Farrell said. "So we had a lot of tools and tech that work in that environment. So those costs--and again, I hate these broad generalizations--but they could be as little as a third of the high-end next-gen titles... Maybe the range is a quarter to a half."

Seen a bunch of those. Of course it's a generalization, but seeing as Atlus seems to recycle their ps2 engines quite a bit, I would think budget would be a bigger concern for them than say, for Epic.

I also would contest the huge user base being meaningless. People with systems are more likely to buy games that people without systems. This is true in my case where I much prefer to buy games for systems I own than for those I don't own, and I would believe that would be the same for most people. If every system is a potential sale, then the more systems out there would equal more potential sales, to illustrate this, I would point out at the Wii consistently taking top spots of NPD sales charts. You may not agree with the specific games, but it's indisputable that the sales potential is there. As I said before, I think the lack of third party success is due more to lack of third party quality than of opportunities.

I meant Atlus Japan, btw, I did not even know it's developing anything for the 360 currently but I might have missed the news if they are.

That would be my rationale. I don't think Atlus Japan is overly concerned about what Atlus usa does, or at least that was my understanding, but who knows.

Edit: And speaking of Japan, I would offer this interesting link regarding Japanese software sales charts. It would seem Nintendo is incredibly popular in the home front. I'd also like to point out that a Wii, non Nintendo game is on top http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/12/wii_ds_software_dominates_japanese_charts-2.html

Again, you may not agree with the games, but the sales are there.

[slayn]

I also would contest the huge user base being meaningless. People with systems are more likely to buy games that people without systems. This is true in my case where I much prefer to buy games for systems I own than for those I don't own, and I would believe that would be the same for most people. If every system is a potential sale, then the more systems out there would equal more potential sales, to illustrate this, I would point out at the Wii consistently taking top spots of NPD sales charts. You may not agree with the specific games, but it's indisputable that the sales potential is there. As I said before, I think the lack of third party success is due more to lack of third party quality than of opportunities.

I won't argue against the development costs, I wasn't sure on that anyhow.

However, I think you're just plain wrong about sales. I won't dispute that the Wii takes the top spot every month. I won't dispute that a very few of it's games remain in the top ten month after month. My point, and I believe Kaki's, is that you need to look at those games.

Mario Kart.

Wii Fit.

Wii Play (it's a goddamn controller, not a game!)

Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Guitar Hero games

Super Mario Galaxy

Notice a trend? Every single one of these games (and some are only games by the loosest possible definition) are designed to appeal to either the largest possible group of gamers, or in the case of Wii Fit, which will probably be the best-selling game of those listed once things are all said and done, isn't targeted at gamers at all.

The people buying Wiis to play these games, which are most people buying Wiis, are very unlikely to even hear about a SMT game on the console, let alone be even vaguely interested in it.

Regarding the Kotaku link, it only reinforces my point. The top Wii games are either music/rhythm games, super-broad-appeal games, or Wii Fit. And once again, you simply cannot look at the sales of those types of games and assume that something as niche as SMT is going to do well. So no, the sales are not there because the games are not there.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

Like with the topic says. What system do you guys want to see Persona on?

I'd buy it on either the 360 or the PS3. Hell, I'd buy it on the Wii. It would get annoying to have my wife looking over my shoulder as I played it on the DS or the PSP, though. :)

[Sei]

As I said before, I think the lack of third party success is due more to lack of third party quality than of opportunities.

So no, the sales are not there because the games are not there.

Funny, I thought that was the same thing I said!

I think I'd reiterate the bit about you seeming to have a problem with the types of games it sells. I find it a bit odd that someone that is always talking about business practices and defending business moves (I might be wrong on this, it's what I've seen a bunch of times when someone criticizes something MS does) would complain about a company making games directed at the biggest chunk of the population and selling them well... you know, a business move.

I'm looking at this question from the perspective of what I feel would garner the most sales (and thus money) for Atlus. Subjectivity versus objectivity, if you will.

I think if one was to be completely objective, the Japanese sales charts, and maybe worldwide ones would say that what would garner the most sales (and thus money) for Atlus would be a rhytm game, preferably with plastic instruments, probably on the Wii, by the way. You might not like that, but again, that is you disagreeing with the types of games, and thus, being subjective, not objective.

Just something I found funny.

[slayn]

Funny, I thought that was the same thing I said!

Again, you may not agree with the games, but the sales are there.

No, you're saying that despite the games the sales are there, and I'm saying because of the games the sales aren't there.

I think I'd reiterate the bit about you seeming to have a problem with the types of games it sells. I find it a bit odd that someone that is always talking about business practices and defending business moves (I might be wrong of this, it's what I've seen a bunch of times when someone criticizes something MS does) would complain about a company making games directed at the biggest chunk of the population and selling them well... you know, a business move.

I'm looking at this question from the perspective of what I feel would garner the most sales (and thus money) for Atlus. Subjectivity versus objectivity, if you will.

I think if one was to be completely objective, the Japanese sales charts, and maybe worldwide ones would say that what would garner the most sales (and thus money) for Atlus would be a rhytm game, preferably with plastic instruments, by the way. You might not like that, but again, that is you disagreeing with the types of games, and thus, being subjective, not objective.

Just something I found funny.

It's not funny. It's you being pedantic. This thread isn't about what type of game would make Atlus the most money. It's not a thread discussing Nintendo's business practices and (apparent) new direction. It's a thread about which system the next SMT game should be on. I chose to take an objective stance and offer my thoughts on which system would garner the most sales when specifically talking about a Shin Megami Tensei game.

If you look at the data we have available regarding the demographics the Wii has sold to, which can be surmised from the types of games that are made for the system and, subsequently, which ones sell well, then from an objective viewpoint, Atlus would be ill-advised to make the next SMT game for the Wii because it is not the type of game Wii-owners buy.

[Sei]

^ Oh by that I meant "their objective best move, not necessarily related to megaten". Seeing the same data you have I have come to different conclusions, I suppose, If it was my call, I would develop for the Wii, it seems like a huge, untapped market, that appeals to both the local market which is my main base of support, and western markets.

I really think I am a lot more concerned about the total numbers of systems than the demographics. I dunno if the PS3 has a more hardcore one or the 360, but either way, the possibility of achieving a hit in a medium with very small quality competition paired with the lower development costs would make me lean in the Wii's direction. Or that of the DS or PSP, for much the same reasons. And on DS and PSP I could even recycle a number of engines and assets, which as a Megaten Dev, I love to do. And I could always hang on PS2 a bit longer and recycle assets which is what it seems they are doing right now, with big success.

I really don't see any scenario where the 360 would objectively come on top. It has a much lower domestic install base (regardless of demographic), a much lower total install base (regardless of demographic), and much higher development costs. Unless MS gave me money hoping I would boost Japanese sales for a month or two, it would seem a no go.

But really, I am not Atlus, so who knows.

[slayn]

^ Oh by that I meant "their objective best move, not necessarily related to megaten".

Ok, so why even mention that in a thread that is very specifically about a future SMT game?

Seeing the same data you have I have come to different conclusions, I suppose, If it was my call, I would develop for the Wii, it seems like a huge, untapped market, that appeals to both the local market which is my main base of support, and western markets.

I'm not disputing that Japan is Atlus' primary support base, but I would be very interested to see how well Persona 3/FES and Persona 4 did in America/Europe versus Japan.

I really think I am a lot more concerned about the total numbers of systems than the demographics.

Then it's probably a good thing you're not running this show :). Demographics are far, far more important than just a really big number in the "Units Sold" column.

I really don't see any scenario where the 360 would objectively come on top. It has a much lower domestic install base (regardless of demographic), a much lower total install base (regardless of demographic), and much higher development costs. Unless MS gave me money hoping I would boost Japanese sales for a month or two, it would seem a no go.

Then you haven't been paying attention. First of all, Microsoft is going around and tossing money at Japanese developers for exclusives and timed exclusives. Second, if you look at the sales history, while the 360 is very much in last place, every time one of those exclusives comes out (well, the higher profile ones anyhow), sales see a huge spike, relatively speaking. It's doubtful the 360 will catch up with the PS3 in Japan, but then Japan is neither the only market nor the largest market, and revenue lost in Japan can easily be made up in the west.

Of course, it's arguable that the next SMT game isn't a high enough profile game to warrant Microsoft spending a bunch of money for an exclusive, timed or otherwise. I'm sure most everyone here would say so, but if you're here, you're likely predisposed to being a fan of SMT games and your opinion is skewed.

[Sei]

Uhm, because I found it funny, as I stated clearly in the relevant post!

If MS tossed money my way I would certainly take it. Or hope Sony gave me more!

On demographics: I am not sure the Gears of war/ Call of Duty/ Madden one is much better than the Wii fit one. It is my impression that RPG's still move the most on PS2, and that of game devs (like square!) that this might be true of the DS (when discussing non previous commitments, publisher funded efforts)

My personally preferred system btw is the PS3, but that seems as a no go at the moment. I dunno, I don't think the hope of doing decent overseas is worth squandering my market, which can do very good, for a long time. Also, if I developed with overseas in mind, well, my understanding is that the last remnant was made like that and although it sold well in Japan, the heavily discounted US price would tell me that it sort of flopped here.

And at any rate I like SMT due to the Japanese stuff, spirituality etc. If I wanted a Western game I'd probably pick up Oblivion or Fallout instead. So I'd honestly much rather Atlus didn't start making their games with western tastes, or markets in mind. I think westernizing SMT was attempted before, with rather dismal results.

Lastly, you see Mario Kart, Galaxy et al as a problem, I see it as a possibility. I think publishers would kill for those sales numbers and staying power. And so far I see nothing but lackluster attempts on the platform, which again, I think accounts for the lack of third party sales.

Oh, btw, I like your sig. Are they roasted? What kind of nuts?

[Eddie Van Helsing]

I think westernizing SMT was attempted before, with rather dismal results.

Yeah, I tried playing the original Persona last weekend to show my wife the roots of the series. Let's just say that the PS2 Persona games are a vast improvement, shall we?. :)

[Sei]

^ Word. I am happy Atlus Usa has stopped trying to westernize stuff. Sad part is that back in the day, Persona was one of my favorite games. Happy part is that 2,3,4, Nocturne, DDS, etc are all in english and managed to stay unraped :D.

[slayn]

My personally preferred system btw is the PS3, but that seems as a no go at the moment. I dunno, I don't think the hope of doing decent overseas is worth squandering my market, which can do very good, for a long time. Also, if I developed with overseas in mind, well, my understanding is that the last remnant was made like that and although it sold well in Japan, the heavily discounted US price would tell me that it sort of flopped here.

That's not why The Last Remnant was discounted so quickly. In case you weren't paying attention, nearly all of the major world economies took a giant crap these last few months and, as a result, sales this past Christmas season were dismal. Retailers trying to make money, combined with publishers putting 75% of a year's big-title games out in the span on three months, has increasingly resulted in AAA games seeing their prices slashed within weeks of release.

Lastly, you see Mario Kart, Galaxy et al as a problem, I see it as a possibility. I think publishers would kill for those sales numbers and staying power. And so far I see nothing but lackluster attempts on the platform, which again, I think accounts for the lack of third party sales.

I don't see those titles as problems. They're damn fine games (except Wii Fit, which is just a damn fine peripheral :)) and fit rather nicely with what appears to be Nintendo's new direction and target demographics. Publishers are killing for those sales numbers. Specifically, they're killing themselves by putting out third-rate knockoff after third-rate knockoff. Companies are seeing what types of games are selling on the Wii and trying to emulate that. This is how the market has pretty much always worked. It's only very rarely that you get a company willing to take a chance and try something new, and with ever-increasing development costs combined with original games failing miserably despite critical acclaim (LBP, Valkyria Chronicles anyone?), this will happen less and less.

I've never said Atlus shouldn't take a chance on the Wii, I've simply maintained that the most guaranteed profit lies on the PS3 and 360 (either or both, depending on if they plan to bring it to the west). The simple fact is that there is exactly zero data showing a game like SMT will even recoup development costs on the Wii, let alone make a profit. There is ample evidence that both of these things will happen on the PS3 or 360.

Oh, btw, I like your sig. Are they roasted? What kind of nuts?

Almonds and walnuts ;)

[Eddie Van Helsing]

^ Word. I am happy Atlus Usa has stopped trying to westernize stuff. Sad part is that back in the day, Persona was one of my favorite games. Happy part is that 2,3,4, Nocturne, DDS, etc are all in english and managed to stay unraped :D.

I think that the original Persona came out before Final Fantasy VII proved that there was indeed a market in the US for Japanese RPGs. Before then, and before game developers started pushing the limits of ESRB ratings, it was more common to Macekre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Macekre) games -- and probably cheaper. Let's face it; Atlus USA probably didn't have the resources in the PSX era that it does today.

[Sei]

^ I am not sure, but I think The Last Remnant was going for 40 on Amazon before the economic meltdown, I recall Slaughter pasting a link to this effect. But I might be wrong! I also seem to recall its western reviews being horrible, and VGchartz doesn't speak too kindly of it's sales http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=12261. Granted, VGchartz is Vgchartz, so who knows. Anyway the reason I mention it is because it was supossedly a cornerstone of Squares western strategy, made with the west in mind, and by most standards a failure. I don't know what the status is with Mistwalker, but a 360 RPG of theirs was just cancelled as well, so maybe a profit on the 360/PS3 is not that assured. And I would think it harder to come due to higher development costs. I actually was very sad that Valkyria sold bad, it is a great game, but LBP is not my cup of tea and I never thought it would do good, to be honest. I'm not sure when the meltdown officially started though, so maybe all of those were it's victims too. But then Gears managed to sell well, so again, who knows.

^ Word. I am happy Atlus Usa has stopped trying to westernize stuff. Sad part is that back in the day, Persona was one of my favorite games. Happy part is that 2,3,4, Nocturne, DDS, etc are all in english and managed to stay unraped :D.

I think that the original Persona came out before Final Fantasy VII proved that there was indeed a market in the US for Japanese RPGs. Before then, and before game developers started pushing the limits of ESRB ratings, it was more common to Macekre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Macekre) games -- and probably cheaper. Let's face it; Atlus USA probably didn't have the resources in the PSX era that it does today.

Awesome link! I don't think I had come across that site, and I find it very interesting. I didn't know Elijah Wood was writing a Robotech movie. It makes me very, very sad.

Oh well, frontier is great.

[Enzo_Kensei]

^ That is very true. ^^

[slayn]

^ I am not sure, but I think The Last Remnant was going for 40 on Amazon before the economic meltdown, I recall Slaughter pasting a link to this effect. But I might be wrong! I also seem to recall its western reviews being horrible, and VGchartz doesn't speak too kindly of it's sales http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=12261. Granted, VGchartz is Vgchartz, so who knows. Anyway the reason I mention it is because it was supossedly a cornerstone of Squares western strategy, made with the west in mind, and by most standards a failure. I don't know what the status is with Mistwalker, but a 360 RPG of theirs was just cancelled as well, so maybe a profit on the 360/PS3 is not that assured. And I would think it harder to come due to higher development costs. I actually was very sad that Valkyria sold bad, it is a great game, but LBP is not my cup of tea and I never thought it would do good, to be honest. I'm not sure when the meltdown officially started though, so maybe all of those were it's victims too. But then Gears managed to sell well, so again, who knows.

It's mind-boggling that you'll just make assumptions about some things and then immediately try to cite something else using VGChartz (but not before leaving yourself an out!). Either do some research or admit you're just going with your gut instincts, but don't half-ass it.

The economy started imploding in September when Lehman Brothers collapsed, so the downward spiral was well along by the time the holiday season hit.

Regarding The Last Remnant, an Amazon.com sale for release is not unprecedented, especially when retailers everywhere were trying to make a buck. Now the fact that the game has pretty much stayed at that price point, and that more stores have set it there, does indicate that it hasn't done well. However, that doesn't necessarily mean the game is bad (reviews tend to indicate it's pretty average in most respects). The larger problem with TLR, and Prince of Persia, and LBP, and a lot of other games, year after year, is that they came out at the wrong time of year. Publishers don't seem to understand that if you release everything in a three-month period, and all of your competitors are doing this, sales are going to suffer all around unless you're lucky. This is an industry-wide problem that causes a lot of great games to under-perform.

Regarding the Mistwalker game, again, do your research. Cry On likely never got much past the concept art stage, despite being announced in 2005. There was almost no information released about that game between its announcement and its cancellation, so I really doubt we lost a 75% complete game. It's likely AQ just made an official statement on something the company had decided on long ago.

Valkyria Chronicles flopped because Sega didn't start advertising it until this month. Good job Sega.

LBP flopped because it was released at the wrong time of the year. You can throw all the money you want into advertising, but when the choice is LBP or Gears of War 2, most people are going to opt for shooting stuff with big guns.

[Sei]

I would have quoted NPD, but I couldn't find it on their lists anywhere! Let me know if you do! At any rate December's NPD should be out soon, it might be there.

As a consumer I mostly agree with them lumping releases toghether being a bad idea, but it's really hard to tell. I can't think of a time (barring economic need) that I wouldn't pick Valkyria Chronicles, or that I would pick up Gears of War 2, this may play into your demographics argument! If this held throughout the year, I'd find it hard to say that game X might have done better in a different season, as whoever was going to buy it, would buy it regardless, and people that weren't, may be more likely to buy it at a time many people have extra money (bonuses, gifts, etc) than at a time a lot of people are on vacation (middle of the summer).

But again, this is just my experience. I don't know of many people that really buy games outside of their interests that much, though. I guess stuff like Mirror's Edge and Prince of Persia might compete against each other, or something, but not releasing because of the other is you as a publisher considering the other publisher's product better and shying away from competing with it, I would think. I'd like to mention that LBP probably doesn't compete with Gears at all, seeing that they are in different platforms and have completely different genres, as well (I guess this opens the interesting question of how common it is for regular people to have both the PS3 and 360, though). Maybe LBP and Resistance 2, but again, if you have such little faith in your game that you are to back off from releasing it when anything might compete with it, you might as well not release it at all.

Also, for some reason all of these publishers seem to believe that releasing their games in their busiest sales season of the year gives them a shot at good sales, which might or might not be true. Interestingly enough I was reading an article yesterday in Ars Technica that said that game publishers hope for big hits while using terribly performing games for writeoffs and that their worst case scenario is not then a game that does horrible, but one that does just well enough to pay for itself. Might be the reason, who knows; I am not sure Ars Technica is an authoritative source in the matter though, and I think it might be hard to get a straight answer from the publishers. Interesting nonetheless.

I'd call the average of 68 (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/939444.asp)% on reviews that usually start at 8 for big releases not so great, but that is an entirely subjective thing. I guess if you were on a true 1 to 10 scale like 1up used to be, then 68 wouldn't be so bad. Then again, the sites to which scores I tend to look to, like IGN, Gamespot, 1up, and even Xplay when I'm bored, had very unkind things to say about it.

The point of mentioning Mistwalker was that, even though it was formed with Microsoft backing with the assumption that it would publish mainly on the 360, it has not published anything on that platform since the December 6 2007 release of Lost Odyssey, and their only announced project for the platform was just canceled (unless you count Blue Dragon 2, which is not officially announced, but is planned, according to a Sakaguchi interview). It has, however published games since, on the DS (with Away Shuffle Dungeon just last October).

[slayn]

I hope all future SMT games come out on Microsoft-developed consoles. When this finally happens, I will stand in a valley and let myself be drowned in the tears of the Sony/Nintendo fanboys.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

I hope all future SMT games come out on Microsoft-developed consoles. When this finally happens, I will stand in a valley and let myself be drowned in the tears of the Sony/Nintendo fanboys.

*shrug* Since I have all three consoles, I just can't bring myself to give a rip which one Atlus settles on.

[Pibbman]

Although im late for Poll. I'd rather see it on PS3. I can't afford to spend money on something that's almost guaranteed to fail (360). A persona game on a handheld wouldn't make much sense to me due to the length of the games. I suppose the Wii would be....ok, but I'd rather it not go to the Wii even though I own one.

[Pibbman]

Nah, you cleared things up Gorgon. I was just misunderstanding what you were saying. Sorry about that :).


In related news, it looks like the economy more than anything else is beating the snot out of the PS3.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123050978162738293.html

No problem. Glad things are cleared up.

Yeah, things ain't looking good for Sony.



I get what you are saying now.

Good. I guess sometimes I create strange structures for my sentences and I'm not sure I'm passing my point across.

Every Sony console started out pretty bad, only to really start ramping up in the 3rd year of it's lifespan. History has proven that with PSX and PS2.

[Kakizaki]

^PSX really didn't fit into that mold / trend.

[slayn]

Every Sony console started out pretty bad, only to really start ramping up in the 3rd year of it's lifespan. History has proven that with PSX and PS2.

This is blatantly false. The PS2 sold like crazy from day one, so much so that there were widespread shortages the first Christmas it was out. It was the first console to see prices up to double MSRP on eBay because of supply constraints.

Edit: Numbers are fun! By May 2002, less than two years after the console had launched, Sony had shipped over 20 million Playstation 2s. That is about as far from a bad start as you can possibly get.

[Enzo_Kensei]

I hope all future SMT games come out on Microsoft-developed consoles. When this finally happens, I will stand in a valley and let myself be drowned in the tears of the Sony/Nintendo fanboys.

OMG! It WILL not happen. T.T I hate Microsoft, practically dominating the world market.

[Sei]

I hope all future SMT games come out on Nintendo-developed consoles. When this finally happens, I will stand in a valley and let myself be drowned in the tears of the Microsoft fanboys. :D

[slayn]

I hope all future SMT games come out on Nintendo-developed consoles. When this finally happens, I will stand in a valley and let myself be drowned in the tears of the Microsoft fanboys. :D

You didn't include the tears of the Sony fanboys so really you'll only end up with damp shoes.

[Sei]

^ We already spent all of our tears on Square :(. There just aren't any left.

[Taroni]

PS3,Wii, and DS since those are my "next gen" systems... damn I refused to buy Xbox because I hate MS and American games.. but the Japanese companies seem to bet on it too...

[Xelloss]

Honestly, the best bet would be to go to PC development. The console market is to fragmented currently for developers of semi-niche and niche games to have an easy time of it no matter where they go. The PS3 isnt popular enough in the states to support even semi-niche titles, and from what many are saying is that the 360 is not popular enough in Japan to be a safe bet either.

PC is the superior platform for games like this, having the widest install base. You would not need the newest and hottest machine to play a JRPG, and awesome gfx cards are only 100$ now anyhow.

Also, you do not have to pay royalties to a console mfg, and there are also myriad digital distrobution avenues.

Semi-niche and niche are destined for either the Wii, or the PC.

The only other alternative, financially speaking, is to make a Persona game ( a non Persona SMT game following old style will not, not matter how good it is) on current-gen so incredible that it attracts the attention of a new market and at least threatens to bust out of niche territory.

This is not an easy task, not because people wouldnt like the games if they played them, but at least in the west "JRPG" means "SquareEnix" to a lot of people... and SquareEnix have transformed themselves from artistic innovators into failboat operators over the years.

[Olethros]

PS3,Wii, and DS since those are my "next gen" systems... damn I refused to buy Xbox because I hate MS and American games.. but the Japanese companies seem to bet on it too...

The MS hate I get. Why hate all games made in America, though. That's really,really limiting youself.


Also, for the guy who said to switch to PC: PC gaming itself is a niche for the most part these days. It's simply not going to happen, however much you may want it to.

[Xelloss]

Sorry Olethros, that just is not true. If you need any evidence to the contrary just look at the PC gaming hardware market. What is true, is PC has fewer exclusives of types of titles that once would have been PC exclusives. Mostly FPS type games, the illusion that PC gaming is niche now is almost solely propogated by the cross-platform FPS - where at one time PCs dominated that genre, and the fact that FPS is probably the most popular genre in the west at the moment.

The issue is not about where I want things to go, it is about where they have to go to be viable.

Valkyria Chronicles is the writing on the wall for the PS3 and JRPG/SRPG on that platform, is the reverse is true for XboxJapan then... you have 3 options. Go Wii, go PC, go portable and personally I think portable is a long term dead-end for the genre.

[Kakizaki]

^It is true though (regarding PC gaming as a niche).

Look at the amount of space dedicated to PC games at mainstream gaming outlets. It has been drastically reduced even from when I was first working at Software Etc in 2001. The PC gaming sections have steadily shrunk.

Look at the shift it major PC titles and what genres they are in the U.S. I'm sure there is still interest in traditional crpgs, but not for the mainstream.

Shifting the series to PC wouldn't be prudent.

[Inzaghi]

Shifting the series to PC wouldn't be prudent.

Especially not in Japan, which is still the audience all SMT games are primarily developed for. The interest in original PC development there is simply nil--if it wasn't for PC ports of Capcom's current-gen stuff, H games would account for just about 100% of the market.

[Kakizaki]

^I was thinking about mentioning that. If it wasn't for Falcom stuff, I wouldn't see a whole lot of Japanese PC software that interested me.

[Xelloss]

I am sorry, but that means little. There are multiple reasons for floor space decline, and it is also something affected by regional demographics. NPD sales of many PC titles is relatively strong , and NPD does not cover digital sales outlets.

Unfortunatly hard evidence on DD sales is impossible to find, and closely guarded... but all signs point to DD sales being higher than retail brick and mortal sales in the PC arena now.

I for one know very few people who buy games in a store for the PC anymore, Steam or D2D are the main purchasing avenues for vast swathes of the gaming community. ( I might not have hard evidence, but I know... a "lot" of people online) Scientific? No... but I encourage people to hop in their TS/Vent servers or IRC channels and start a topic about it.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that you get considerably more revenue per unit via this method than you will wholesaling a console box+platform royalty.

Now, maybe this does not hold true to Japan... I know little about the ins and outs of Japans PC gaming market.

People might think I am crazy for now, but come back in a few years. Unfortunately unless something drastic happens in the console space I will be correct, and niche will flee to the PC or it will die. Developers need to stop accepting the conventional wisdom of pundits who have questionable foresight. A lot has changed in the DD space for PC in the past 3 years, those who embrace this will flourish and those who do not will have a much tougher time.

edit: wow, looks like there were responses in the time it took me to write this - sorry, I am multitasking so it took a little longer than it should have to get it posted.

To clarify - my initial paragraph was directed at the floorspace comment, which you could probably tell from overall context but I thought I would clarify further.

Also: regarding Japanese PC market, which I admittedly know little about- I do have one question: I have heard that Legend of Galactic Heroes recently got a PC game made for the Japanese market. How well has this performed? Was it a total flop? What about the venerable Romance of the Three Kingdoms series? Koei still makes japanese PC titles do they not? Poor performance there as well?

Being a big LoGH fan, I am still hoping against hope ( I know it probably wont happen) that someone would port it into english. ( yes, I know it wont happen.. but a guy can wish, yes?)

[Olethros]

^ Yes, I absolutely buy your argument based soley on you knowing a "lot" of people. :lol:

I'm starting to think you have some sort of stake in the PC gaming market doing well. What do you do for a living, if I may ask?

[Sei]

Err... I really can't see why a games niche that is pretty sucessfull on consoles would move to the wasteland that is pc gaming, digital download or not. I also prefer solid copies of stuff rather than digital ones (well I prefer digital ones for multiplayer stuff...)

I mean... seriously, why would they move their games to a medium without the sales, without the market and without the fans? Last I checked RPGS on computer sort of died some uhm.. 10 years ago?

At least the 360 people point out that MS is in the business of giving people money to ignore sales and make games for their system, but pc?

Really really doubt it. Ever. Unless someone loses it and the world gets nuked, and even then.

[Pibbman]

I thought I posted in here already, but apparently I didn't so here are my two cents.

I'm obviously rooting for the PS3, the Playstation brand has done great for the SMT series. Not to mention that White Knight Chronicle sales in the first week alone, outsold every 360 RPG combined in Japan alone over their lifetime. It's clear that the JRPG players are on the PS3 console over there in terms of HD consoles.

If they can't go for PS3, then my next option would probably be the PSP, but I prefer it not go there, mainly because of the small screen, and the fact that you'd have to keep recharging it. In the long run, if it can't go for those, my next choice would be the Wii, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they did go with this, considering the user base in Japan for the wii is massive.

[Xelloss]

Sei, the proof in the pudding so to speak is Persona 4 itself. If current-gen was particularly attractive , why in 2008 would such a great title be coming out on a legacy system? I am simply saying that people should take a "hard" look at PC viability, because based on what I see, the reality differs from the conventional wisdom held by many. Maybe I am wrong, time will tell.

Olethros, believe or not - like I said, take a look around on your own. I do know a lot of people, and see a lot of discussion.. and while my own online travels are not scientifically valid as a statistical survey... I also see no reason why the trends I see would suddenly differ outside the circles I travel.

FYI, I program for mobile, primarily Blackberry. Even if I worked for Nvidia, the idea that I would be on these forums having a discussion to promote PC gaming is silly.

[Sei]

^ That's terrible proof. The main reason for Persona 4 is a recycling of P3 assets. I wouldn't be surprised if the next SMT game was Ps2 as well. The Ps2 also has quite the strong install base both here and in Japan, which next gen consoles can't really say.

You can also see in the recent Atlus announcements that if anything, they are moving their development to portables, not pc.

They do have two MMORPGS for pc though, but as it was already said, The japanese game market in Japan isn't really that strong if your game doesn't sport lolis and tentacles, and it certainly isn't that much better in the states as far as I know.

I can't even remember the last Pc game I bought. Are you saying the crowd that plays mainly fps's and rts would love turn based games?

[Xelloss]

Yes, Sei I do see the trend towards portable. Which is why I, in an odd moment, decided to speak up and voice an opinion. I do not think moving RPG/SRPG to mobile is a good idea long term. Speaking for myself, I am happy to play some games on mobile, but not 40~80 hour RPGs.

And yes, recycling assets I am sure was a factor, but by the same token at least regarding the western market - imagine a P4 in HD, with trophies and extended DLC, Live enabled, etc.. I honestly think it would have gotten even better reviews, more shelf space, and more sales. Am I right? The world may never know.

Continuing ps2 development IMO would be unwise, I think major retailers are going to be severely curtailing their PS2 floorspace this year. We will see I guess, but PS3/360 are no longer "next-gen" , and probably more importantly - releasing on PS2 will likely do little to nothing in terms of making inroads with new audiences. <-- ( this last part being key imo)

In the US, you need to be on the 360 to do that ( or PC, so says I - some obviously disagree) or, apparently in Japan on the PS3. Maybe Wii? Wii is a different discussion, and there seems to be enough contention regarding the PC so I will refrain from inviting more contention regarding the Wii.

And yes, regarding fps/rts.... seems to me a ton of gamers play games of many genres. I know very few people who stick exclusively to one genre. Word of mouth can do wonders as well, especially if the talked about game is easilly accessable.

[Sei]

I don't think it would make sense for them to do a P4 in HD with the stuff you describe, they would have had to massively rework the engine, the graphics (all of this increasing costs for no benefit gamewise), and in all possibility it would come with the problems that seem to plague a lot of 360 rpgs like Blue Dragon and The last remnant (frame rate, loading, random issues, etc) and those come from publishers with a lot bigger budgets than Atlus. A look at Last Remnant reviews (which a lot of people on this board swear is a good game) would show that those kinds of issues can translate easily into a much lower score, and much lower sales. Lastly, just what would be done in Live?

Persona 4 also seems to be the most successful game sales wise in the series, which I doubt would have happened on the 360, especially in Japan. Those numbers are from VG chartz though, so who knows.

Which brings us to the issue of Japanese sales, where the 360 is pretty much a flop. And if you look at sales of Atlus games both in the West and Japan, they don't really sell that much more in the West (if more at all) to justify alienating their primary sales base.

I would also guess that they get a lot more money from Japanese sales as they are probably price - cost while Western sales are probably a licensing fee and/or a percentage which are most likely smaller as Atlus USA has their own mouths to feed. The prices for games in the west are also lower to begin with. Persona 4 was released in Japan for 7300 Japanese yen which is equal today to 81.6067 U.S. dollars. It goes for 36.99 on Amazon. This would probably translate to a much smaller slice of a much smaller pie, hurting that popular 360 fan creed of "Theyll just make it up with [potential?] western sales".

[Kakizaki]

[I am sorry, but that means little. There are multiple reasons for floor space decline, and it is also something affected by regional demographics. NPD sales of many PC titles is relatively strong , and NPD does not cover digital sales outlets.

Floor space decline for the PC titles at GS locations was because they didn't move. I can tell you first hand after working at several different GS locations (over a period of 5 years) and being in some quite diverse regions, that interest in the PC side of things is minimal at best -- unless it is a mmo.

I saw a reduction from a wall that was nearly 1/3 - 1/4 of the store to one rack - one rack. I'm sorry, but that is pretty damned dramatic. I was even in some stores that were considering dropping it entirely.

You are also severely limiting potential sales. I'm not sure exactly why you believe that hand helds are a dead end. It has been trending this way for quite a while now. Can't say I like it personally, but I disagree with it being a dead end.

[Pibbman]

Continuing ps2 development IMO would be unwise, I think major retailers are going to be severely curtailing their PS2 floorspace this year. We will see I guess, but PS3/360 are no longer "next-gen" , and probably more importantly - releasing on PS2 will likely do little to nothing in terms of making inroads with new audiences. <-- ( this last part being key imo)


How true, the stores around here are literally doing massive sales on all things PS2, even the used PS2 games are all on clearance pretty much. They are just getting rid of the majority of it. Xbox is already dead, and gamestop isn't taking trade ins anymore for that system in Feb, so basically it's almost gone entirely itself too.

I disagree with the 360 in US statement, The PS3 has 7.4 Million consoles and the 360 around mid 15 million. Sure, the amount of 360 consoles are almost double that of the 360, and that's only the case in the US alone, but the PS3 having 7.4 million isn't in any means a small number either.

In terms of HD consoles outside of the US, the PS3 is pretty much ruling the roost worldwide. These developers look at a worldwide scope, not just the US. Since SMT is a niche title focused on Japanese audience mostly, who knows.

Atlus has never released a PC title, and I don't see them starting any time soon.

[Kakizaki]

^Maybe you mean Atlus USA, but I believe there may have been a PC port of MIP.

[Pibbman]

^Maybe you mean Atlus USA, but I believe there may have been a PC port of MIP.

I'm going by the Atlus page here, which shows all the releases done by Atlus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlus

So who knows.

[Kakizaki]

^ :/

There was a port of Persona on PC, but I'm not sure if Atlus published it. Trust me on this.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Ibunroku_Persona


Just for future reference, Wikipedia isn't always accurate. The release date listed for Persona in the U.S. is inaccurate. It is off by nearly a year. P2 EP is off by several weeks.

[Pibbman]

^ :/

There was a port of Persona on PC, but I'm not sure if Atlus published it. Trust me on this.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Ibunroku_Persona


Just for future reference, Wikipedia isn't always accurate. The release date listed for Persona in the U.S. is inaccurate. It is off by nearly a year. P2 EP is off by several weeks.

"Revelations: Persona was heavily changed when localized for North American release. All characters other than Yuki were renamed and several of them had their appearance altered as well. Nearly all references to Japan or Japanese culture was cut, with the unusual exception being the Shinto Shrines in the game. Many of the Persona were renamed rather than translated, and the town's name was changed to "Lunarville". Yen was changed to dollars, and the overall difficulty of the game was reduced by lowering the enemy encounter rates and upping experience gained.
In addition to these changes, a large portion of the game was removed. This portion was known as The Snow Queen Quest and it featured an optional quest that altered many aspects of the story.

These changes, coupled with poor translation, are the most criticized aspect of the game."

Ahh, I see. Ok then.

Btw, Did they think that US gamers sucked or something here that they needed to make it easier?

[Kakizaki]

^You have to realize that the market has changed drastically in the U.S. since 1996. We were lucky if we saw a handful of rpgs released across all the consoles over the course of a year. Things have changed a lot. Companies made a lot of assumptions regarding the fan base of console rpgs back then.

Anyway, the link was to show you the PC port.

[slayn]

This thread is a wasteland of horrible opinions and gross misinformation.

[James Fiend]

especially if the talked about game is easilly accessable.
What PC game isn't "easily accessible?" Especially for a company that does so many limited releases. Atlus would be (and probably already is) a good target for piracy.

[DamnedToBeFree]

This thread is a wasteland of horrible opinions and gross misinformation.


:agree:

[sfried]

Go Wii, go PC, go portable and personally I think portable is a long term dead-end for the genre.Minor franchises like Puzzle Quest and Another Code stared out as portable games and worked their way through the home console market.

[Pibbman]

This thread is a wasteland of horrible opinions and gross misinformation.

Let me guess, many of the "horrible opinions" are "horrible" because they don't go in line with your own right? :P

@Kakizaki

Yeah, I saw that. I don't really think it has much to do with the RPG just starting out. I know from friends who live/ or went to Japan, that a lot of the Japanese think they are superior in gaming skills. They won't say it, but their attitude shows it.

An example would be a few months ago, a guy was playing Street Fighter 4 in the arcade, and he was having a good winning streak, people were gathering around him acting really surprised.

[SickleCellAnemia]

This thread is a wasteland of horrible opinions and gross misinformation.

Let me guess, many of the "horrible opinions" are "horrible" because they don't go in line with your own right? :P
No, they're horrible opinions because they're horrible.

I know from friends who live/ or went to Japan, that a lot of the Japanese think they are superior in gaming skills. They won't say it, but their attitude shows it.
All of us asians have this, buuuut we're not supposed to tell you guys about it :p

[Kakizaki]

Yeah, I saw that. I don't really think it has much to do with the RPG just starting out. I know from friends who live/ or went to Japan, that a lot of the Japanese think they are superior in gaming skills. They won't say it, but their attitude shows it.

An example would be a few months ago, a guy was playing Street Fighter 4 in the arcade, and he was having a good winning streak, people were gathering around him acting really surprised.

I'm not sure you understood what I was getting at.

[Pibbman]

This thread is a wasteland of horrible opinions and gross misinformation.

Let me guess, many of the "horrible opinions" are "horrible" because they don't go in line with your own right? :P
No, they're horrible opinions because they're horrible.

I know from friends who live/ or went to Japan, that a lot of the Japanese think they are superior in gaming skills. They won't say it, but their attitude shows it.
All of us asians have this, buuuut we're not supposed to tell you guys about it :p

There is no such thing as horrible opinions, only opinions. Since you guys seem to be bent on this view, mind telling me what exactly makes an opinion horrible then?

[slayn]

There is no such thing as horrible opinions, only opinions. Since you guys seem to be bent on this view, mind telling me what exactly makes an opinion horrible then?

Irony, thy name is Pibbman.

[Kakizaki]

Let's drop the opinion thing.

[Tatsuya]

Well first i'd say that the next persona game or even SMT game being on the 360 is a pipe dream, i remember atlus japan having some issues with microsoft anyway, but i really only need to point to tales of vesperia, even though tales of vesperia isn't as niche as SMT in general it sold terribly in japan.

Now on to the other systems, i'll admit i'd prefer ps3 over wii, but that's for later.
The main problem with it going to the wii is the fact that the userbase of the wii in japan isn't much different than the us, i mean there are women that bought the wii in japan just to have wii fit.
But another problem with it going to the wii is sales, the game sales of the wii is attrocious, i think it was 1-2 games for the wii, 2-5 for the 360 and 4-7 for the ps3, i'm not trying to be biased, this was what i got earlier this year, if there is proof to the contrary, please post a link.
Another sad fact is that non nintendo games usually don't sell on the wii, this is a fact, as sad as it is.

As for the ps3, there is both good and bad arguments for this, someone said that the ps2 sold 20 million consoles in 2 years, well the ps3 has sold 18 million, that's not a bad number considering the cost.
The main issue with a SMT game on the ps3 is the architecture, i it's hard to develop for if you like pumping out games, however this could be why we haven't heard much about the unnamed SMT project, as atlus may be getting used to the architecture, i/e taking their time.

As for fanbase, i guess you really can't say there's one for any of the three systems in large amounts, but more are probably on the ps3 by proxy of ps2.

Anyway onto the handhelds, i'd have to say that the psp has very little if any chance of getting persona 5 or a main series continuation, the main reason for this is because the psp is near the end of it's life, sony is already making the psp2 to replace it, oddly enough this is another flaw with microsoft and the 360, microsoft talks about replacing the 360 as early as 2011, while sony is sticking to it's 10 year plan like it did with the ps2.

As for the DS, this is unlikely for a couple of reasons, one the main fanbase is on the consoles, i'm not saying it can't make the jump, i'm just saying it's unlikely.
The second reason is the playstyle of the SMT games in general, it would have to be changed to accomidate the DS's controls, which i doubt atlus wants to do.

As for pc, there's absolutely no chance of that, there is neither the market for it(falcom is the only company i know of still supporting jrpg's on the pc) and the risk of piracy is extremely high, along with the cost of the gaming machine itself.

Imo it will most likely either stay on the ps2 or go to the ps3, since the others are unlikely at best.
The system i'd prefer tbh is the ps2, mainly just to see if sony get's it's act together with backwards compatibility(which would definitely entice alot more of the fanbase to the ps3).

As for last remnant, i own it for the 360(yes i own a 360) and unfortunately, it's boring imo, the story is worse than nocturne's, and the gameplay is somewhat automatic in that you can't choose your moves, just go by the A.I.'s suggestions.
It's also short, it's fairly possible to beat the main story in as little as 30 hours.

[Enzo_Kensei]

^ as far as I can remember, Sony still haven't released an official announcement regarding the PSP2 and if there is any, I think it won't be out until the Q4 of 2010 or first quarter of 2011.

[Tatsuya]

^ as far as I can remember, Sony still haven't released an official announcement regarding the PSP2 and if there is any, I think it won't be out until the Q4 of 2010 or first quarter of 2011.

Even at that though the psp is pretty far along in it's life, it seems doubtful they'd release persona 5 on the psp, though i wouldn't doubt they remake persona 2 as well(please).

Probably the biggest issue, and one i forgot to mention is the fact that the psp is easy to hack, thus it's by far the easiest system to pirate games on, which sucks since the psp has alot of untapped potential.
Tbh i wouldn't mind psp either, i just don't see it as feasible.

[Kakizaki]

^The DS, GBA, and Xbox all are easy to hack yet they managed to survive. I hate that excuse in regards to the PSP's lack of success. It is a total cop out. Sony should be blaming themselves for lack of third party support on the PSP.

[Enzo_Kensei]

^ as far as I can remember, Sony still haven't released an official announcement regarding the PSP2 and if there is any, I think it won't be out until the Q4 of 2010 or first quarter of 2011.

Even at that though the psp is pretty far along in it's life, it seems doubtful they'd release persona 5 on the psp, though i wouldn't doubt they remake persona 2 as well(please).

Probably the biggest issue, and one i forgot to mention is the fact that the psp is easy to hack, thus it's by far the easiest system to pirate games on, which sucks since the psp has alot of untapped potential.
Tbh i wouldn't mind psp either, i just don't see it as feasible.

I agree about the PSP as being hacked easily but at least Sony is taking actions on it. The PSP's latest version, PSP-3000 is deemed unhackable, although in the near future, it could be. But then again, as what Kakizaki said, some of the other systems can also be hacked. PSP only needs more support and I totally agree on that. :agree:

PSP as you said, has great potential but failed to release its power. Wouldn't be nice though that it will be Persona 5, that will awaken its true potential? If not, then a remake would make a good bargain. P2 remake is cool. ^^

[Tatsuya]

^The DS, GBA, and Xbox all are easy to hack yet they managed to survive. I hate that excuse in regards to the PSP's lack of success. It is a total cop out. Sony should be blaming themselves for lack of third party support on the PSP.

I never said they weren't, but it's not even something a 90 year old grandma with arthritic hands couldn't do on the 1000 series.
I didn't want to say that about the ds or 360, mainly because in truth they have more against them than any other system, the 360 especially, and as much as i didn't want to say it(i have a 360, didn't say why i didn't want it on the 360) the 360 is just not capable of having the niche audience a megaten game would need, and the ds as i said would probably require a complete reconfiguration of the entire series path, which is why if a main megaten game comes out i expect ps2 or ps3, i do expect alot of spinoffs for the handhelds like devil survivor though.

As for the psp i agree, sony messed up and got too prideful with the sales of the ps2 and expected people to bow before them and get whatever they made, well it seems like sony is learning after screwing up again on the ps3 by removing B/C, so hopefully sony will get it's act together, the psp isn't dead yet, and sony can fix it.

[Kakizaki]

I never said they weren't, but it's not even something a 90 year old grandma with arthritic hands couldn't do on the 1000 series.

Yes you didn't say the other systems weren't easy to hack, but what you did say implied the PSP is failing because of piracy. I highly doubt that is honestly the case.

[sfried]

As for the DS, this is unlikely for a couple of reasons, one the main fanbase is on the consoles, i'm not saying it can't make the jump, i'm just saying it's unlikely.
The second reason is the playstyle of the SMT games in general, it would have to be changed to accomidate the DS's controls, which i doubt atlus wants to do.Developers are free to use whatever control method they see fit on the DS. They are in no way obligated to use the touch screen or "reconfigure" the entire game as you've stated. They don't even have to use both screens. And again, if you are doubting the DS would have enough power, I suggest you take a look at PS0...

Plus I've seen many titles that have started as console games jump to the DS and back.
I really wish the Persona series does not stay on a Sony console. That would just be...limiting. Both for the series and potential fans.

[Pibbman]

As for the DS, this is unlikely for a couple of reasons, one the main fanbase is on the consoles, i'm not saying it can't make the jump, i'm just saying it's unlikely.
The second reason is the playstyle of the SMT games in general, it would have to be changed to accomidate the DS's controls, which i doubt atlus wants to do.Developers are free to use whatever control method they see fit on the DS. They are in no way obligated to use the touch screen or "reconfigure" the entire game as you've stated. They don't even have to use both screens. And again, if you are doubting the DS would have enough power, I suggest you take a look at PS0...

Plus I've seen many titles that have started as console games jump to the DS and back.
I really wish the Persona series does not stay on a Sony console. That would just be...limiting. Both for the series and potential fans.

Except Atlus has a history of doing exclusives only, pretty much every title you see by Atlus is....actually I'm not sure if Atlus ever released a multi-platform title.

[Kakizaki]

^Soul Hackers, Sol Divide, SMT 1, and I'm pretty sure I could think of quite a few others if I tried.

[sfried]

Except Atlus has a history of doing exclusives only, pretty much every title you see by Atlus is....actually I'm not sure if Atlus ever released a multi-platform title.Yggdra Union and Riviera were originally GBA titles. The PSP were published by Atlus as well.

[Kakizaki]

^Yeah, there are actually quite a few cross platform published titles. Although your two examples there weren't published by Atlus in Japan, but still...

[Tatsuya]

As for the DS, this is unlikely for a couple of reasons, one the main fanbase is on the consoles, i'm not saying it can't make the jump, i'm just saying it's unlikely.
The second reason is the playstyle of the SMT games in general, it would have to be changed to accomidate the DS's controls, which i doubt atlus wants to do.Developers are free to use whatever control method they see fit on the DS. They are in no way obligated to use the touch screen or "reconfigure" the entire game as you've stated. They don't even have to use both screens. And again, if you are doubting the DS would have enough power, I suggest you take a look at PS0...

Plus I've seen many titles that have started as console games jump to the DS and back.
I really wish the Persona series does not stay on a Sony console. That would just be...limiting. Both for the series and potential fans.

I'm not going to quote on the different parts since i made my point and this time i didn't slip up(like with the psp part)
As for ps0, there's one issue with it, it requires(unless i heard improperly) one of the newer DS's, since it runs with some new features, also i've seen ps0, now megaten is never about graphics, so it's not a graphics comparison.

The controls you seem to have missed the point on but like i said i made my point.
How likely is it they'd not use DS controls?

I'll admit i'd rather the ps3 over everything but the ps2, but my reasons is i don't want it to:
A:flop(360)
B:Lose it's basic design(wii)
C:or not be on a console, thus losing some of it's old school charm(ds or psp)

I'd get it for whatever console it came out on, but i'd rather it stay megaten instead of change.
In the case of the wii, if they made it controller only, it wouldn't bother me much, but that wouldn't happen.

[sfried]

As for ps0, there's one issue with it, it requires(unless i heard improperly) one of the newer DS's, since it runs with some new features, also i've seen ps0, now megaten is never about graphics, so it's not a graphics comparison.Where the hell have you heard that? All it needs to run is a regular DS. You must've heard improperly alright...
The controls you seem to have missed the point on but like i said i made my point.
How likely is it they'd not use DS controls?

I'll admit i'd rather the ps3 over everything but the ps2, but my reasons is i don't want it to:
A:flop(360)
B:Lose it's basic design(wii)
C:or not be on a console, thus losing some of it's old school charm(ds or psp)

I'd get it for whatever console it came out on, but i'd rather it stay megaten instead of change.
In the case of the wii, if they made it controller only, it wouldn't bother me much, but that wouldn't happen.First is your issue with the perception that all Wii games need waggle: Several games on Wii already expect you to use Wiimote to its side be default or classic controller. Like the DS, they are not obligated to use any of the Wii specific functions (and if they do, most likely it will be used for menus and this like that).

How likely is it they'd not use DS/Wii controls? Several developers have already done this including Atlus themselves

Third, how can they lose the basic design just because it's on Wii? Again, you have these preconceptions that DS/Wii games need to conform to this standard of needing to have imposed DS/Wii specific features and dumbed-down interfaces. There are a load of titles that still use traditional inputs/methods for control, especially for more traditional kinds of games.

[slayn]

This thread always delivers.

[Tatsuya]

As for ps0, there's one issue with it, it requires(unless i heard improperly) one of the newer DS's, since it runs with some new features, also i've seen ps0, now megaten is never about graphics, so it's not a graphics comparison.Where the hell have you heard that? All it needs to run is a regular DS. You must've heard improperly alright...
The controls you seem to have missed the point on but like i said i made my point.
How likely is it they'd not use DS controls?

I'll admit i'd rather the ps3 over everything but the ps2, but my reasons is i don't want it to:
A:flop(360)
B:Lose it's basic design(wii)
C:or not be on a console, thus losing some of it's old school charm(ds or psp)

I'd get it for whatever console it came out on, but i'd rather it stay megaten instead of change.
In the case of the wii, if they made it controller only, it wouldn't bother me much, but that wouldn't happen.First is your issue with the perception that all Wii games need waggle: Several games on Wii already expect you to use Wiimote to its side be default or classic controller. Like the DS, they are not obligated to use any of the Wii specific functions (and if they do, most likely it will be used for menus and this like that).

How likely is it they'd not use DS/Wii controls? Several developers have already done this including Atlus themselves

Third, how can they lose the basic design just because it's on Wii? Again, you have these preconceptions that DS/Wii games need to conform to this standard of needing to have imposed DS/Wii specific features and dumbed-down interfaces. There are a load of titles that still use traditional inputs/methods for control, especially for more traditional kinds of games.
Still changes little, megaten games don't require great graphics.

As for the ds and wii, the DS would still require 2 screens, which can cause issues in itself, and on the fact of controls, atlus never sticks to the same formula completely, so megaten would have to conform, which i strongly oppose.

If the wii has no wii motion sensor usage, fine, however that still doesn't change my main worry with the wii, i/e third party games don't sell on the will, never have never will, unless nintendo themselves intervene, this has always been nintendo's problem, either way the wii won't survive for too many years probably, though i'd prefer to stick to this gen's graphics(realism is next gen, i want my artistic style) i'd say it's unlikely, but even if the wii is unlikely it's alot more likely than the DS, which may have a fanbase, but it's arguable how many are megaten fans, but we'll see with devil survivor.

As for the wii not dumbing down things, tell me one game that has been sold by a third party that hasn't bombed with those old school controls?

Either way, as was supposed to be clear in this thread, it's not a debate, it's what do "you" think, i have plans to get a ps3, a DS and a wii, in that order(mainly because fragile hasn't been announced for the us and devil survivor is closer, even if not announced), so i have no fanboyism.
Keep in mind i don't care what console it goes to, as long as it's truly SMT(i/e not watered down), and it's playable on a TV screen without you wanting to gouge your eyes out on a HDTV.

[Kakizaki]

As for the DS would still require 2 screens, which can cause issues in itself, I hardly think using two screens for an SMT title on the DS would be an issue. Using one screen for a map or a secondary screen that contains demon info / enemy info sounds like it would be a pretty nice feature to me.

and on the fact of controls, atlus never sticks to the same formula completely, so megaten would have to conform, which i strongly oppose.What? Aside from the recent titles, many SMT games of the past shared a lot of similar features.

Either way, as was supposed to be clear in this thread, it's not a debate, it's what do "you" think,That is what a debate basically is.

[sfried]

As for the ds and wii, the DS would still require 2 screens, which can cause issues in itself, and on the fact of controls, atlus never sticks to the same formula completely, so megaten would have to conform, which i strongly oppose.
Games do not need to use both screens at once. Various titles simply focus on one screen and let the other display filler or extemporaneous information. The DS Castlevania games are a good example (although Order of Ecclesia probably best exemplifies the traditional controls aspect).

Also as someone mentioned above, two screens would hardly be an issue.

If the wii has no wii motion sensor usage, fine, however that still doesn't change my main worry with the wii, i/e third party games don't sell on the will, never have never will, unless nintendo themselves intervene, this has always been nintendo's problem, either way the wii won't survive for too many years probably, though i'd prefer to stick to this gen's graphics(realism is next gen, i want my artistic style) i'd say it's unlikely, but even if the wii is unlikely it's alot more likely than the DS, which may have a fanbase, but it's arguable how many are megaten fans, but we'll see with devil survivor.From what I've heard, it's the Wii versions of Rock Band that have sold the most out of the 3rd party games. You're also forgetting exclusives like No More Heroes, so your "never have never will" statement is false.

As for the wii not dumbing down things, tell me one game that has been sold by a third party that hasn't bombed with those old school controls?Tatsunoko vs. Capcom is doing quite well.

Either way, as was supposed to be clear in this thread, it's not a debate, it's what do "you" think, i have plans to get a ps3, a DS and a wii, in that order(mainly because fragile hasn't been announced for the us and devil survivor is closer, even if not announced), so i have no fanboyism.
Keep in mind i don't care what console it goes to, as long as it's truly SMT(i/e not watered down), and it's playable on a TV screen without you wanting to gouge your eyes out on a HDTV.You have missed the entire point of this thread.

[slayn]

You have missed the entire point of this thread.

To be fair, the only real point of this thread anymore is for new posters to make generally outrageous claims that some veteran posters feel compelled to call BS on.

So really, Tatsuya got the point of the thread pretty well.

[jj984jj]

In an interview with Famitsu Xbox Atlus confirms that they're working on the 360!

http://wiieveryday.blogspot.com/

We knew they were hiring for a HD project for a while now but it's nice to see that whatever they're working on will likely be on the 360 too.

[Tatsuya]

In an interview with Famitsu Xbox Atlus confirms that they're working on the 360!

http://wiieveryday.blogspot.com/

We knew they were hiring for a HD project for a while now but it's nice to see that whatever they're working on will likely be on the 360 too.

I don't know about that, when i babelfished it i got this:

With Xbox360 in the midst of extolment development

Man babelfish sucks.
Also it's the only thing i found on atlus that had to with the 360.
Also it's not famitsu, it's a blog.

[Kakizaki]

^Yes, but isn't it a blog about Famitsu news?