Characters' Sexuality (spoilers)

[Gamescook]

I, as a homosexual, almost never get a homosexual character in a video game, even more rare are the respectable ones, so the possibility of having one is honestly a highlight of the year to me. may I receive some solid confirmation from someone working on the game's localization that either Kanji or Naoto, both playable characters, are homosexual? Bluntly put, I need at least one of them to be, though especially Kanji. Even someone that just translated either of their lines in the script for fun would be helpful to me. If anyone bothers to reply, especially with help, I would be extremely grateful, as there has not been a clear answer thus far on the subject. Thank you for your time and trouble.

[jeffx]

Is there some sort of rumor/fact that I'm not aware of, or are you just making stuff up? But you know, if you won't play the game because none of the guys are gay, it's just as bad as someone NOT playing it because one or more ARE gay. I'm not sure how that's helping your cause, buddy.

On a related topic, other than the two chicks in Fear Effect, I've never heard of any gay protagonists on a modern console game... at least outside of Japan ;) Though one could argue Ryo Hazuki is a man-lover, given how much of a cold shoulder he gave Nozomi (that bastard)

[Gamescook]

Is there some sort of rumor/fact that I'm not aware of, or are you just making stuff up? But you know, if you won't play the game because none of the guys are gay, it's just as bad as someone NOT playing it because one or more ARE gay. I'm not sure how that's helping your cause, buddy.

On a related topic, other than the two chicks in Fear Effect, I've never heard of any gay protagonists on a modern console game... at least outside of Japan ;) Though one could argue Ryo Hazuki is a man-lover, given how much of a cold shoulder he gave Nozomi (that bastard)

Do not be so quick to assume. I have always intended to purchase Persona 4, new and at full price with no extras if that were to be the case. I wouldn't leave something like an excellent videogame alone if it contained no homosexual characters...!

Anyway, with that out of the way, here is some proof to the claim of his ambiguous sexuality: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qidFGZ2tOCI) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoTf8HlSDM0) He apparently feels inner conflict with the possibility that he might be homosexual, giving rise to that shadow that means to kill him. Beyond this, mixed messages are sent regarding his sexuality, so I have little idea on how to conclude this subject. Is it possible to understand where I am coming from on this? Is it possible for someone to provide a concrete answer, or at least a translation of his dialogue?

[XenoAcid]

On a related topic, other than the two chicks in Fear Effect, I've never heard of any gay protagonists on a modern console game... at least outside of Japan ;)

Mass Effect*

[jeffx]

well I'm not even gonna check the videos, this has been too spoilerific for me already. Good luck in thy quest.

[iammako3]

Okay, so I can't translate all of it, but I'm getting some stuff off the first video. Lines like "I hate women" "I feel disgusting when I look at a woman" "Women are scary" "Men are nice" When real Kanji goes "No! It's not like that!", shadow says "I am you and you are me, do you understand?" (implying they have the same inner thoughts). There's a lot inbetween that I'm just not proficient enough to translate, but those are some of the basic ideas. Yeah, and the form the shadow takes is preeeeeety indicative of a homosexual hidden side.

However, the second video proves and disproves that theory. Shadow points out that [other guy] (don't know his name, but not the main guy) is the best looking of the three (I think), and Kanji says to shut up. Then Shadow says something to the effect of "Whoever is good. I want to 'be an uke'

--ok, side note, "uke" basically means the bottom in a homosexual relationship. However, the phrase itself could also mean simply to accept/receive. Taking in the mood and signals thus far, I'd have to go with the sexual meaning in this case.--

He seems to be aiming this particular comment to [other guy], who freaks a little, making Kanji angry. Kanji yells out for Shadow to stop. . . and punches Shadow in the face. ^_^ The next part is about how Kanji knows about this dark part inside him already, but then says it's not about being a man or woman (not sure about that part, but it's something to do with men and women), he's just a scaredy-cat! A chicken! The hero says "That's not true." Kanji then says to Shadow a ruder version of the "I am you, you are me" thing from before. Thus, by accepting this truth about himself, he gains a better power.

Sooo, I'm thinking Kanji is afraid and weird towards women, doesn't really like them much but knows that "real men" like women. After this fight, he realizes it's okay if he's not like other men.

Gah, I don't know if that helps at all since it didn't really *confirm* anything, but there is definitely some implication that Kanji doesn't like women, though whether he actually likes men or if that was a shadow exaggeration, I'm not sure. Hope that helped a little!

[emptystring]

Kanji's sexuality was questioned when he was introduced into the game. The things you see in Mayonaka TV portrays him as gay.

However - the more you get to know him, the more you realize that he is just confused. He is a lot more comfortable around sewing needles, textiles, etc, since he grew up in a tailor shop - and this is where he sometimes questions his own sexuality - because "real men" chase after women and do not stay at home to sew plush toys.

So it's not really that he "hates" women, just that he has no skills in terms of approaching them and finds them annoying.

He does develop a thing for Naoto later on in the game...and well, Naoto is a girl, so there =P

[Gamescook]

Well, I would feel somewhat disappointed if he really is not homosexual, but if they at least go away with the message "whether you are gay or straight, we are your friends" then I guess it should be enough. I hope Naoto is homosexual, at least.
I always did look forward to the latest lines from Mitsuru's nameless female admirer in P3, even if they were meant solely for comedy. Though, I really didn't like that transvestite hitting on Junpei and friends, intentionally put in the game to creep out them and players. I mean, I understand there are all sorts of people in the world, but it seems game developers only include the bad types from the LGBT group, with nearly no positive characters to balance out the casts. It gets damn depressing, occasionally.

[Zephyr_Fate]

I'm a homosexual and I don't feel the need to want or crave a homosexual in a videogame or any medium I enjoy. Honestly... it's really not that big of a deal and to make sexuality such a big deal is the crux of the problem with making our sexual preference appear equal in the eyes of society.

It's just a small piece of a much larger picture of things we shouldn't ask for. If a character is gay, so what. If a character is straight, so what. Persona 4 will be the GOTY regardless.

[James Fiend]

I'm not gay, but I can't stand when there aren't at least a half dozen homosexual characters. Like any true JRPG fan.

[Jayroo]

It's sad but Atlus didn't go the route they could have with this one.
They just... didn't want to tell "that" story. They only wanted to tease.

Ideally it would be nice to have more glbt characters, hell I'd be happy with effeminate men or masculine as long as it's done right. Seriously, you can't only accept one without the other... But really, could Atlus even do it right? I seriously doubt they could, I don't even think there's many open and out people in the gaming industry. So how could they tell an accurate homosexual story?

FYI Kaneko was not a TatxJun shipper. ...Now Cozy... maybe.

I'm calling Atlus out on this one. Why tease at it? Why not just go the full monty?

There's nothing delicious to drink in this desert of heteronormative gaming culture. Pity.

At least Fable gives you an option, but I'm not buying an Xbox for that.

In spite of that the game will still be worth people's time.

[jeffx]

I'm not gay, but I can't stand when there aren't at least a half dozen homosexual characters. Like any true JRPG fan.

That was pretty lame.

[James Fiend]

I'm not gay, but I can't stand when there aren't at least a half dozen homosexual characters. Like any true JRPG fan.

That was pretty lame.

Soz m8.

[punkrocker_271]

Whats soz m8?

[jeffx]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soz

[James Fiend]

Whats soz m8?It's British slang. It's a sort of disingenuous apology. There are plenty of characters, especially in Japanese games (especially RPGS) where the story centers around a group of young people becoming more mature. Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.

[punkrocker_271]

Thx 4got i have the internet and 2 hands :lol:

[Azriel Crusnik]

I have nothing against your cause, but many don't buy games based on that specific option. If your looking for games like that try RPG's that give you choices, because I doubt you'll find something that's main stream with that option. (when fable 2 is out try it I think that gives you that option)

[Kakizaki]

Whats soz m8?It's British slang. It's a sort of disingenuous apology. There are plenty of characters, especially in Japanese games (especially RPGS) where the story centers around a group of young people becoming more mature. Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.


While I agree with your message, knock it off with the smarmy, ticky-tack stuff.

[James Fiend]

Dude, knock it off. I PMed you - Kakizaki

[Jayroo]

Whats soz m8?Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.


So if every character created for video games from this point on was glbt you'd be down with that right? Cause sexuality doesn't matter one way or another, right? Fair would be fair right? It's all about the game itself!

[James Fiend]

Whats soz m8?Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.


So if every character created for video games from this point on was glbt you'd be down with that right? Cause sexuality doesn't matter one way or another, right? Fair would be fair right? It's all about the game itself!It is absolutely all about the game itself. If it's a good game, I'll play it. If it's a bad game but features characters of the "t" persuasion, you better believe I'll play it.

[Jayroo]

Whats soz m8?It's British slang. It's a sort of disingenuous apology. There are plenty of characters, especially in Japanese games (especially RPGS) where the story centers around a group of young people becoming more mature. Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.

Whats soz m8?Not every character's sexuality is always made clear and really, there is a lot more to people than their sexual orientation anyway. If it really matters to you if someone is gay, you're a bit prejudiced in my opinion.


So if every character created for video games from this point on was glbt you'd be down with that right? Cause sexuality doesn't matter one way or another, right? Fair would be fair right? It's all about the game itself!It is absolutely all about the game itself. If it's a good game, I'll play it. If it's a bad game but features characters of the "t" persuasion, you better believe I'll play it.

Ok, it's just not everyone feels that way and many use the above argument to get others to "shush" often. It's nice to see someone so open minded.

[Azriel Crusnik]

It all depend on the consumer and how they feel about certain topics.

[Jayroo]

It all depend on the consumer and how they feel about certain topics.

If it's ended, like the dating in P4 is, the consumer might not tend to care in most cases. I've often heard, "I don't want to have to play through that, but if there was an option I wouldn't care."

[Fuyukaze]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.

[Olethros]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.

You pretty much summed up exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread. So, I won't bother re-iterating it.

[Azriel Crusnik]

It all depend on the consumer and how they feel about certain topics.

If it's ended, like the dating in P4 is, the consumer might not tend to care in most cases. I've often heard, "I don't want to have to play through that, but if there was an option I wouldn't care."

good point.

[Kakizaki]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.

Good points. Easily your best post on this the board so far.

[XenoAcid]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.


Amen. I salute you.

[Jayroo]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.

Meh. I'll admit there's a good point in there.
I still don't like teasing. All or nothing baby! :D

[TheMagicHat]

Not gay here, but if it's part of the story, great. If not part of the story, still great. If it's forced in the story or feels like it's forcing some agenda that takes away from the game, not great. I'm here to enjoy the game, not have someone preach at me why the gay lifestyle is so great or why it's so freaky. Now I hope Atlus doesnt change the sexuality of some charcters to appease certain groups. I'd hate to feel the need to import Atlus titles with a domestic release just to see what the game's original story line was like before some PC agenda was added.
Finally! Someone gets it. :agree:

[sora4126]

I love how people dismiss people like me who're bi, which I thought Kanji was when I read about him, 'cause that'd make Naoto perfect for him. She's a masculine feminine.

And yeah, Fuyukaze definitely makes a good point. I approve. ^_^d

[Leukos]

Well, I honestly would think it a plus is there was a gay character in P4, however I really could care less whether or not it actually happens, sure, there may be some hints of homosexuality, but if it ends up not so, then oh well, I'll make up the story in my head, they same way I did with Persona 3... with a certain two people that shall remain nameless... which then moved to another pairing, only a little less plausible...
I'm gonna be quiet now...

[dunno001]

Well, I honestly would think it a plus is there was a gay character in P4, however I really could care less whether or not it actually happens, sure, there may be some hints of homosexuality, but if it ends up not so, then oh well, I'll make up the story in my head, they same way I did with Persona 3... with a certain two people that shall remain nameless... which then moved to another pairing, only a little less plausible...
I'm gonna be quiet now...
This is a fairly similar view to how I have things. I trust Atlus will be doing a faithful translation of P4, which is the most important thing to me. Personally, I'm really looking forward to the addition of the social links with the other male members of your party, just to see how that plays out. Without going into details (since it's not really P4; they would belong in another section), I did have to import Innocent Sin to see what that side of the coin was holding...

As for P3, yeah, I think I can see 2 of them together. But I'm going back to kicking the P4 site to let me in... I don't think 27 is underage...

[System_Error]

On a related topic, other than the two chicks in Fear Effect, I've never heard of any gay protagonists on a modern console game... at least outside of Japan ;)

Mass Effect*
Fear Effect

[bjm968]

Kanji's sexuality was questioned when he was introduced into the game. The things you see in Mayonaka TV portrays him as gay.

However - the more you get to know him, the more you realize that he is just confused. He is a lot more comfortable around sewing needles, textiles, etc, since he grew up in a tailor shop - and this is where he sometimes questions his own sexuality - because "real men" chase after women and do not stay at home to sew plush toys.

So it's not really that he "hates" women, just that he has no skills in terms of approaching them and finds them annoying.

He does develop a thing for Naoto later on in the game...and well, Naoto is a girl, so there =P

:agree: Thank you for a clear explanation :agree:

Hehehe, poor Naoto...girl...boy...?????? Sometimes, I wish that people can find love with someone regardless of gender. I believe Kanji would have a crush on Naoto no matter what gender.
Of course, preferences are a huge factor...
I am gay; guys are what my heart yearns for.
But, if Kanji likes Naoto, then he likes Naoto, not affected by whether Naoto is a guy or girl.

[Dead Flag Blues]

On a related topic, other than the two chicks in Fear Effect, I've never heard of any gay protagonists on a modern console game... at least outside of Japan ;)

Mass Effect*

no, he meant Fear Effect

[Zacewing]

His Midnight Channel dungeon implies that he's gay, but he's really just confused about his sexuality, and that people think he's effeminate because he likes sewing (that's why his shadow is pretty much a nude Kanji in a bed of roses).

He could possibly be bisexual, though.

EDIT: Also, one of the characters in Enchanted Arms is openly gay.

[Iris]

I think trying to definitively state the sexuality of someone who's still...fifteen? Sixteen? -- is kind of a moot point. A lot of people don't have it figured out until years after that, so given that he's already established as being unsure about it, I wouldn't count on the game to give ~*~the final answer~*~.

[Yukichin]

Age has little to do with it; some people know their sexuality at a younger age than others. I think it's just that they purposefully left Kanji ambiguous, and people don't like that.

[Iris]

I'm not saying some people don't have it figured out by then, but with how many who don't, I do think pointing at a teenager and saying HEY THEY GOT THIS STUFF FIGURED TOTALLY OUT is kind of pointless. I know a number of people, myself included, who thought they did and ended up going back on it when they were older anyway.

And applying that to a character who is also established as being confused to start with...

I'm just saying, there are numerous reasons why I go ¯\o_O/¯ at "KANJI IS OBVIOUSLY _______."

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'd just like to interject that as per the true ending, the Midnight Channel reflects what other people think of you, not what you truly are. Rise was really just a normal girl living an abnormal life, but people wanted to see her as a slut, so that's what the Midnight Channel showed. In a similar fashion, Kanji was confused about his sexuality, but outwardly he looked like he was a closet homosexual, so that's how people saw him and how he was displayed on the Midnight Channel.

Nothing that is displayed in the Midnight Channel is real except for the last part of each shadow's monologue where they're "off camera" and they talk about their true feelings. If you'll notice, towards the end of Kanji's shadow's monologue, he loses all the gay stereotypes and just talks straight about how he's just confused and wants to be accepted as a man even though he likes "girly" hobbies. You could almost argue that the entire scene really has nothing to do with sexualty at all.

[Pikaboom]

Well, I would feel somewhat disappointed if he really is not homosexual, but if they at least go away with the message "whether you are gay or straight, we are your friends" then I guess it should be enough. I hope Naoto is homosexual, at least.
I always did look forward to the latest lines from Mitsuru's nameless female admirer in P3, even if they were meant solely for comedy. Though, I really didn't like that transvestite hitting on Junpei and friends, intentionally put in the game to creep out them and players. I mean, I understand there are all sorts of people in the world, but it seems game developers only include the bad types from the LGBT group, with nearly no positive characters to balance out the casts. It gets damn depressing, occasionally.

Okay, I'm gay, and you're being way too much of a typical "butthurt minority". And honestly, when things aren't that bad, and you flip out overly light hearted humor, you ruin it for the rest of the normal gay people who are emotionally stable and know how to laugh at a joke. Okay so Junpei freaks out because some trannies are hitting on him, big deal. Get over it. In fact, I'm gay, and THAT would even make me feel uncomfortable as well. Trannies just aren't something that is easy to find sexually attractive. Sure, I wouldn't mind being friends with one, and I wouldn't treat one any different from any other person, but I would TOTALLY feel uncomfortable if one were trying to come onto my sexually. And why does the main character need to be homosexual? Why does anyone? Stop trying to sexuality everything, it's stupid and perverse, and annoying when you complain about "bawww no homosexuals". Boo hoo. Obviously Naoto isn't homosexual anyway, and I'm glad it isn't touched up on in the game, because I would rather not think of her as anything other than a just, virtuous, and innocent character. People like you are what's going to take out humor in the future, when you guys make everything more buckled down and strict because "oh no, they made fun of gay people!" or "not enough gay people!". You're a poor representative of any gay person. Ever.

[Pikaboom]

I'd just like to interject that as per the true ending, the Midnight Channel reflects what other people think of you, not what you truly are. Rise was really just a normal girl living an abnormal life, but people wanted to see her as a slut, so that's what the Midnight Channel showed. In a similar fashion, Kanji was confused about his sexuality, but outwardly he looked like he was a closet homosexual, so that's how people saw him and how he was displayed on the Midnight Channel.

Nothing that is displayed in the Midnight Channel is real except for the last part of each shadow's monologue where they're "off camera" and they talk about their true feelings. If you'll notice, towards the end of Kanji's shadow's monologue, he loses all the gay stereotypes and just talks straight about how he's just confused and wants to be accepted as a man even though he likes "girly" hobbies. You could almost argue that the entire scene really has nothing to do with sexualty at all.

Also, you're wrong, the midnight channel shows a slight exaggeration of some kind of inner conflict within a person, not what others think of them. If it was about what others think of them, then Chie's shadow would make no sense, as they were secret feelings she was harboring toward Yukiko and herself, same with Yukiko, and also, NOBODY knew Naoto was a girl. I don't know how you even came up with that idea. If that were even true, then each of the characters would simply be perfect, which is what the game is trying to touch up on; NOBODY is perfect.

[Yukichin]

I'd just like to interject that as per the true ending, the Midnight Channel reflects what other people think of you, not what you truly are. Rise was really just a normal girl living an abnormal life, but people wanted to see her as a slut, so that's what the Midnight Channel showed. In a similar fashion, Kanji was confused about his sexuality, but outwardly he looked like he was a closet homosexual, so that's how people saw him and how he was displayed on the Midnight Channel.

Nothing that is displayed in the Midnight Channel is real except for the last part of each shadow's monologue where they're "off camera" and they talk about their true feelings. If you'll notice, towards the end of Kanji's shadow's monologue, he loses all the gay stereotypes and just talks straight about how he's just confused and wants to be accepted as a man even though he likes "girly" hobbies. You could almost argue that the entire scene really has nothing to do with sexualty at all.

Also, you're wrong, the midnight channel shows a slight exaggeration of some kind of inner conflict within a person, not what others think of them. If it was about what others think of them, then Chie's shadow would make no sense, as they were secret feelings she was harboring toward Yukiko and herself, same with Yukiko, and also, NOBODY knew Naoto was a girl. I don't know how you even came up with that idea. If that were even true, then each of the characters would simply be perfect, which is what the game is trying to touch up on; NOBODY is perfect.

I've not beaten the game yet, but I'm fairly sure I've heard that the True Ending tells you what Gen Eric Gui said is true.


As for wanting gay characters in games... well, I'm gay, and I wouldn't mind seeing other gay characters at all. It'd be kinda cool. That being said, I had very little problem with the scene with Junpei on the beach (I found it hilarious), and while it's sliiightly disappointing that there aren't that many gay characters in video games, I find very little problem with it. I'd like it, sure, but it's not a huuuge deal to me.

[Andy]

It'd be cool if they let you have romantic social links with both male and female characters. That'd be some real role playing.

[Iris]

Dude, Pikaboom? If we're going to talk about butthurt, I think saying someone is "ruining it for the rest of you," implying that they're emotionally unstable, and saying they're a poor representative of the minority sounds a lot more butthurt than Gamescook going "mm, well, I was a little disappointed with how they did this, it's kind of a shame." I can see where your argument is coming from, but if someone politely says they'd like to see a little more PC diversity in their media, it seems like kind of an overreaction to go GOD NO STOP WHINING AND STFU YOU'RE RUINING IT!!!

[Soushi_Grapple]

It'd be cool if they let you have romantic social links with both male and female characters. That'd be some real role playing.

This.

It could also add some fun for some of the audience playing that is the opposite gender of the main character. Of course, there's that discussion about having a male and female protagonist, but think of the programming that would take. >>;

[Evilkinggumby]

I don't see why it makes a difference either way. I like the fact they left the complete sexuality of a number of the characters ambiguous. It means players can take away from it what they want. He is gay, she is not, etc etc. Folk will identify with the characters how they will, it's a factor that Atlus cannot control, therefor leaving some open ended grey area makes the game have a more universal appeal(which means more happy gamers .. which means ,more loyal fans.. which means more revenue dollars.. cha ching!!)

Anyhow the characters sexuality is such a small facet of who they are. I love the fact these games take a fair amount of time to try to color and round out the characters as best they can in as little(relatively.. compared to most novels or movies) time as possible. The efficiency is generally impressive, and the ultimate affect is astounding. In a way, the fact that folk are on here arguing about little petty details such as who is gay is solid proof Atlus made a game people feel strong enough about to perpetuate the idea. Imagine being a game designer and sitting in a local downstown coffeeshop or cafe and hearing a decent sized table of people talking about the game you just spent 17 months (or more) working on and arguing passionately about these types of details. It's a compliment! But it's also a minor issue.

A character's sexuality is one of many details about who they are. I have never been one for labeling. Having issue with not knowing for sure if a character is gay or not, or if they are easily identifiable as gay, is like complaining that a character looks black.. but you're never really sure. Haven't we gotten a little further down the evolutionary chain to where we can recognize a character(real or fictitious) for who they are and not by silly labels?

I'm not gay. Yet I have no issue with the game being written with a male, female, bi straight or gay main character. Why? because I'm comfortable with who I am and so I can see beyond stereotypes and pigeon holing and appreciate(or hate, for antagonists) people for what they do more then how they look, or the preferences they have.

That is why I would like to see both Male and Female char's. I don't see playing a female and hittin on guys are "gay". It's just a way of telling the story from a slightly different angle.

Bravo to Atlus for having the willingness to even deal with issues like this. :grouphug: Most companies shy away from it for fear of bad press or potential lawsuits.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'd just like to interject that as per the true ending, the Midnight Channel reflects what other people think of you, not what you truly are. Rise was really just a normal girl living an abnormal life, but people wanted to see her as a slut, so that's what the Midnight Channel showed. In a similar fashion, Kanji was confused about his sexuality, but outwardly he looked like he was a closet homosexual, so that's how people saw him and how he was displayed on the Midnight Channel.

Nothing that is displayed in the Midnight Channel is real except for the last part of each shadow's monologue where they're "off camera" and they talk about their true feelings. If you'll notice, towards the end of Kanji's shadow's monologue, he loses all the gay stereotypes and just talks straight about how he's just confused and wants to be accepted as a man even though he likes "girly" hobbies. You could almost argue that the entire scene really has nothing to do with sexualty at all.

Also, you're wrong, the midnight channel shows a slight exaggeration of some kind of inner conflict within a person, not what others think of them. If it was about what others think of them, then Chie's shadow would make no sense, as they were secret feelings she was harboring toward Yukiko and herself, same with Yukiko, and also, NOBODY knew Naoto was a girl. I don't know how you even came up with that idea. If that were even true, then each of the characters would simply be perfect, which is what the game is trying to touch up on; NOBODY is perfect.

Except I'm not, because they explicitly state what I did during the true ending.

Also: Chie was never on the midnight channel. The "shadow" reflects the inner self, the "channel" reflects what others think of you. Naoto's Midnight show talks about wanting to change genders, the shadow never explicitly states anything one way or the other. In fact, it heavily implies that Naoto is a boy who wants to become a girl(Which is mostly true, because her real desire was to be taken seriously as a female detective, but she had to act male to get anything done). And Yukiko's TV show makes perfect sense. I really have no idea where you're going with this.

[Fatney]

All Izanami says is that people see the victims on TV (like a interview or something), and they wish to see more about these people. They wanted to see them bare it all. And the victims wanted to show off who they really were too, even though it wasn't apparent to them that they wanted that. What you saw was, as Pikaboom said, an exaggeration of their inner conflicts.

My belief is that Kanji is bisexual. It's really apparent that he likes girls in many scenes, but one isn't just confused for a short period at the age of 17. He showed clear affection towards men in earlier parts of the game, and he never really denied anything either. It's just that few game companies are ready (or something like that) to have a clear gay character that isn't a parody and who alse makes statements towards guys like Junpei makes towards girls... If you understood that. And perhaps most gamers aren't ready for that either.

[Gen Eric Gui]

The only "guy" he displayed attraction towards was Naoto, and that can be attributed to reverse-trap syndrome.

As for the ending, I'm almost 100% sure I remember correctly, but I'll have to play the game again to make sure. It also makes sense when you see that the shadow selves often change radically when they aren't on camera anymore.

[No One]

Right at the begining of the game, in the castle dungeon. At some points I actually though that there was something going on between Yukiko and Chie.... turns out a fail instinct... *sighs*

And about Kanji, Later in the game when he got kissed by Teddy he turned red..... it does not prove anything. But you Atlus, are one nasty little company.

As for Naoto, well, she showed no intrest in females, not even males as a matter of fact lol.

BUT, the one who's been bothering me is Teddy, that bear creeps me out, all bears do.
He might even be sick-minded pedophile!!
remember his strange interest in Nanako. And how he was with nanko in her hospital room, ALONE! how he looked very comfortable in the girl's disguise, so he can easly mingle and do his dirty work.... oh gawd!! he's also a teddy bear, that's even more convenient. C'mon, any supporters here?

[Iris]

Until the game starts, Teddie's existed entirely outside of the normal human world. I think judging him too strongly based on human societal norms and ways of thinking doesn't...work, really; you have to take the fact that it's all new to him into consideration.

[No One]

Until the game starts, Teddie's existed entirely outside of the normal human world. I think judging him too strongly based on human societal norms and ways of thinking doesn't...work, really; you have to take the fact that it's all new to him into consideration.

Hmmm good point.
But on a side note, you should know saracasm when you see it.

[Fatney]

The only "guy" he displayed attraction towards was Naoto, and that can be attributed to reverse-trap syndrome.

I was thinking more about what he said in the TV World. And I don't really think people wished to see him as a gay guy on TV, if anything I bet they would want to see him being this hardcore guy beating up stuff. That's the reputation he had, wasn't it?

[No One]

The only "guy" he displayed attraction towards was Naoto, and that can be attributed to reverse-trap syndrome.

I was thinking more about what he said in the TV World. And I don't really think people wished to see him as a gay guy on TV, if anything I bet they would want to see him being this hardcore guy beating up stuff. That's the reputation he had, wasn't it?

Indeed, but the Midnight channel represent people's thoughts, hense, it shows what people want to see.

[Fatney]

Yes, and they WANT to see the PEOPLE. They can't influence what'll happen there, that's up to the victims.

[Gen Eric Gui]

But as you yourself already pointed out, what is seen on the TV channel is an exaggeration. As soon as Shadow Kanji is off camera, the only thing he talks about is being accepted for who he is, no matter what. His "real" inner self displayed there has nothing to do with romantic relationships, gay or otherwise.

[Fatney]

Yeah, the gay stuff is mostly confusion at the moment, but he realizes what's really going on with him when facing himself. But the whole steamy bathhouse thing came from Kanji's feelings at the moment, he was trying to accept boys since he didn't see girls as a possibility. It did NOT come from people wanting to see Kanji be portrayed as a flaming homosexual.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Eh, my theory still makes too much sense for the other characters for me to completely discount it, but I'll take your word for it until I finish another playthrough.

[Iris]

But on a side note, you should know saracasm when you see it.

Without any of the usual tone-of-voice signifiers, and given the general intelligence level of the internet as a whole, it can be remarkably hard to tell sometimes.

I think the internet needs a special sarcasm font. :'(

[Foobar]

The world saw Chie as someone who wants to control Yukiko, Chie is just very protective of her best friend. Chie is seen as tomboyish and guys see her as the dominant "male" partner of that relationship or just the "ugly" girl ("ugly" in this case just not being stereotypically feminine).

This dynamic actually comes up a lot in friendships, my sister was a Chie. If her best friend went out of her sphere of influnce, she'd get upset. Its not so much about control as it is influence on Yukiko and attention on Chie.

Yukiko sees Chie has having the strength she doesn't have, her shadow self expresses her view of Chie as a "prince." This isn't so much a sexual view of Chie is it is a view of Chie's noble, protective side. Yukiko can find the solace she needs in Chie, but not the freedom she craves. Yukiko was represented accurately by a caged bird, she has all these responsibilities thrust upon her, confining her and she's not exactly sure what she wants for her life yet.

Kanji is seen by others as a strange young man. Tough attitude, yet likes sewing and making dolls. He's seen with guys, but seldom with girls. The world thinks he could be gay, but he's really just uncomfortable with expressing his interest in both sides in addition to other interests. He keeps women at a distance because he's afraid they question why he's interested in what are considered, socially, to be feminine interests. He didn't get a nosebleed until he saw Chie and Yukiko in swimsuits, though, so something about women does excite him and the mystery of Naoto only pushes it further for him. Deep down, he seems to have tremendous respect for Yukiko and Naoto.

Rise is similar to Yukiko, except she wants to shed the spotlight she placed on herself, Yukiko didn't want a spotlight in the first place, even though she was born under it. The public sees Rise as a floozy and want to see her "free" herself. So the stripper theme works for her. Truth is, Rise just doesn't want to lose any part of herself. She likes the simple moments and the time in the spotlight as well, she just doesn't want the latter taking away from the simpler moments. She likes helping her grandmother just as much as being a teen idol.

That's just how it all looked to me. I like the Persona games because even within the outlandish circumstances of the game, there's something you can identify with in each character on some level. Some of it is supposed to make you a tad uncomfortable, speculative or excited or it just wouldn't work at all.

I really wish more protagonists in RPGs had the depth these characters did

[No One]

Interesting analsys.

[Enzeru]

I think the internet needs a special sarcasm font. :'(
That's what italics is for!
ie:

I really think that it's so obvious Kanji is gay and it can only be interpreted my way.

[Yukichin]

I think the internet needs a special sarcasm font. :'(
That's what italics is for!
ie:

I really think that it's so obvious Kanji is gay and it can only be interpreted my way.

Some people do use italics as emphasis, though.

[Evilkinggumby]

grats foobar. that's a great breakdown and it's nice to see someone paid that much attention throughout the game. :)

[Camanche]

I've yet to finish the game but I was under the impression that Kanji was simply struggling with his sexuality. A common thing for someone his age. Naoto even calls it a complex because he is so at conflict with himself. Though I have to say, his shadow did give a stereotypically gay impression.

Also, I'm confused as to where the idea came up that the shadows in the TV are what people WANT the trapped person to be. I simply thought the shadow brought to life the hidden part of oneself and their inner struggles that they HIDE from everyone. Where is it said that what other people think of the victims has an influence on the shadow self shown on the television?

[Crabman]

Where is it said that what other people think of the victims has an influence on the shadow self shown on the television?

Without spoiling it...play more.

[Yukichin]

I've yet to finish the game but I was under the impression that Kanji was simply struggling with his sexuality. A common thing for someone his age. Naoto even calls it a complex because he is so at conflict with himself. Though I have to say, his shadow did give a stereotypically gay impression.

Also, I'm confused as to where the idea came up that the shadows in the TV are what people WANT the trapped person to be. I simply thought the shadow brought to life the hidden part of oneself and their inner struggles that they HIDE from everyone. Where is it said that what other people think of the victims has an influence on the shadow self shown on the television?

Going slightly more into spoiler territory (but only slightly), get the true ending. There's more story.

[Silverback1138]

This is really interesting and I have read several articles regarding this issue. What I do respect is that Atlus left is up to the player to interpret the situation if I remember correctly reading in one of the articles. To me, it seems like Kanji was facing what each of us are facing or have faced as teens, trying to figure out who we are. To me, the sexuality is just one of several underlying character issues that he was facing. It was most often as the forefront but I thought that he was a more complex and layered character than that. To me it was more him struggling with gender views of society as a whole. He had a hobby that effeminate and at the same time, he had problems at first with interacting with members of the opposite sex. His reactions could be viewed as someone who was afraid that his homosexuality would be found out or that in the opposite of the spectrum, he was afraid that while he was straight, people misunderstood him as gay.

Found it. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/89016-Is-Persona-4s-Kanji-Gay-or-Not

I have my own opinion and beliefs about homosexuality much like everyone here. What we need to realize is that we can disagree with this issue but still get along as people. Reading some comments about a couple of these articles it seems like some people are almost wishing that he was outright gay and was really vocal about it. To me, Atlus did the best thing, they left it up to the player. No one outright preached or try to impose their own personal view about this. Personal sexuality is not the only thing that defines someone as a person. I personally believe it to be a lifestyle choice and believe it to be wrong but that doesn't mean that I have the right to mistreat someone. It also goes the other way around, someone who does approve of it shouldn't be also just get in face because I believe differently from them. We can express our views and be respectful in the end.

[Silverback1138]

I'm a homosexual and I don't feel the need to want or crave a homosexual in a videogame or any medium I enjoy. Honestly... it's really not that big of a deal and to make sexuality such a big deal is the crux of the problem with making our sexual preference appear equal in the eyes of society.

It's just a small piece of a much larger picture of things we shouldn't ask for. If a character is gay, so what. If a character is straight, so what. Persona 4 will be the GOTY regardless.

Much props to you on that. It like we are almost obssessive with the issue. It's almost that we're just obssessed with this whole idea. The important part is that we are all people struggling with life.

The fact is that some parts of society will never see certain things as equal. We all have different beliefs and values. What matters is that while we all don't see eye to eye, we still treat each other respectfully.

[Illya]

I hope when Atlus make Persona 5. They able the protoganist able to date the girl he like because....
I want to DATE with NAOTO!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! !!:(