Suikoden Tierkreis

[RayFoxSith]

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/06/is-this-the-name-of-a-new-suikoden-game/

OMFG, whatever this is DMF1.

[unknown]

Please be reaaaaal

[SlaughterX]

Please be on the 360 and/or PS3!

[Foryth]

Yes! A sparkle of hope!

[Flußkönig]

It is always good to find evidence of a new Suikoden game.

Not so sure about Tierkreis though. That is a pretty horrible name.

[Raidou11]

Not so sure about Tierkreis though. That is a pretty horrible name.

Tierkreis? What is that? Sounds like some planet's name..

[Kid Marin]

Not so sure about Tierkreis though. That is a pretty horrible name.
Hell no, i dig the sound of the word.

[Flußkönig]

^ It probably sounds way cooler in French.

[Kaibigan]

Yeah a new Suikoden would be badass.

I'm glad it's Suikoden Tierkreis, because Suikoden Animal would sound stupid.

It's german.

[RayFoxSith]

^Actually I think it's German for Zodiac.

[Kaibigan]

^Actually I think it's German for Zodiac.

Actually, you're right. Tierkreis referring to the Zodiac anyways. Though, iirc, it also means animal . :S It wouldnt be the first time i was wrong.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I don't care what system it's on. I'd buy an N-Gage for Suikoden. As long as it COMES OUT.

[unknown]

I would not buy a N-Gage for a new Suikoden...if it was Megaman Legends 3 I'd think about it.

[Thunder-Slash]

Awesome... I still need to grab the fifth one.

Hopefully, Konami will warm PSP/PlayStation 3 owners up to the series by releasing Suikoden on the PlayStation Store.

This needs to happen. Especially if it's the second one.

[RedEagleEX]

As much as I want this series to be on the PS3 in nice HD...I have a feeling this new game might head for the PSP.

Hopefully I am wrong. X_x (Of course I still wouldn't mind if it goes on the PSP just to make that clear. ^_^;)

[Flußkönig]

^There were rumors popping up every now and again that the next Suikoden was going to be on the psp. I just hope it isn't another spinoff.

[Gillian Seed]

PS3 please, so that it can read ALL the save files and unlock sweet bonus features.

[unknown]

PS3 please, so that it can read ALL the save files and unlock sweet bonus features.

This.

[Gen Eric Gui]

It's probably going to be on the Wii. There was something going around about a year ago that said the director for the series wanted to put it on the Wii.

[Kaibigan]

It's probably going to be on the Wii. There was something going around about a year ago that said the director for the series wanted to put it on the Wii.

SWiikoden eh?

[Constraint]

It's probably going to be on the Wii. There was something going around about a year ago that said the director for the series wanted to put it on the Wii.

No.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Yes. I can find the article if you really want me to.

I seriously don't get what all you folks have against the Wii. It's not in HD but it's got games that are every bit as fun as the ones on 360 or PS3, in many cases even moreso.

[SlaughterX]

No, throwing waggle in does not automatically make it fun, and from what I've heard the vast majority of the games on the system use it poorly. At least HD graphics never made a game any worse.

Tell me how a traditional Suikoden game could possibly benefit from waggle with its turn based combat? If I wanted to play another Suikoden game that looked like a PS2 games then I would do that.

We've already seen what the Wii does to tradtional RPG series...

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/9/932979_75512_front.jpg

[Gen Eric Gui]

Who said I wanted waggle? You put those words into my mouth, kindly take them out.

There have been several games on the Wii that didn't use waggle, and they were great games.

Suikoden has always been about streamlining the JRPG and making it faster and more fun to play. I don't know how you could streamline it much further than by mapping all the normal commands to the infinitely more comfortable-to-hold Wii remote.

[Arjuna]

I hope they finally actually try to advance after the events of Suikoden III, with Albert Silverberg still around, along with Yuber escaping. (though in the Manga he seemed to be destroyed/hurt?) Also current Tenkai still alive with other very good characters. I am tired of being stuck in the past, we have learned enough. The only thing I would really want to learn about if it took place in the past is Harmonia but this new game could easily do that in the present as well since Sasarai is still alive and well.

[Neveryll]

The problem with some Wii games is they assume if they use the Wiimote technology then there game must be fun. No offense to those that like Link's Archery Training but come on.. Please! The Twilight Princess game rocks on the Wii but that one is an example of idiots who assume that bundling the Wii technology with something that is hot (the Zelda series) will automatically make it a hit no matter how lame it really is. The Wii has a number of good games for it. My question is if you elminated all the crap games does that make the Wii better? Or will people then complain about the lack of other games for the Wii? :p

My take on it is that the casual gamer development has gotten a hold of the Wii and assumed that this is going to be their console of choice since so many people find it easy to use. Ergo a lot of games that the core established gaming community come out that we don't care for.

We currently have about 10 games for the Wii and I can think of 5 more that we will eventually add to our collection. We've had our Wii since December of last year, so I don't think that's too bad.

[Sei]

Who said I wanted waggle? You put those words into my mouth, kindly take them out.

There have been several games on the Wii that didn't use waggle, and they were great games.

Suikoden has always been about streamlining the JRPG and making it faster and more fun to play. I don't know how you could streamline it much further than by mapping all the normal commands to the infinitely more comfortable-to-hold Wii remote.

Uhm, everytime they overstreamline things they screw the series up like in 4 (ugh). But if they just wanted to do a PS2 Suikoden they could do that and it could read past saves, etc. I have a Wii, and all the Suikoden games, I wouldn't give up the recurring random unlocks for using the classic controller or having waggle.

I think it would be an awesome game for PS3 and Sony and Konami seem to have a great relationship. It could read previous saves, and would be able to play previous games in the series. I guess they could make it a true 3D Wii game with free look or something pointed to the cursor, but eh..

Really doesn't seem the kind of game the Wii does well.

If the director really said he wanted to put it on the Wii, then I hope he knows what he is doing. Wii does not = suck, but it doesn't have such a great track record with traditional non VC games.

[Gen Eric Gui]

4 was terrible because the director for the series wasn't present during it's creation(If what I've read at Suikosource was correct, and I assume it is because Bluemoon is the ####ing MAN), and so it was basically just Konami cashing in on the series and failing miserably at it. That's why they got her back for 5 and that's why 5 is so much better.

But actually, the elements presented in 4 were somewhat nice. Multiple parties for overworld exploration, and a better functions for the assist characters were both great ideas executed poorly(Although the assist characters would again be expanded upon in S5 and made into something great).


I just think it's a great fit for the Suikoden team. They've always focused on making the story good and the gameplay flow fast and powerfully. And that's pretty much what the Wii does well(Nearly every good game on the Wii is good because the gameplay flow is better than counterpart games on other consoles), in my experience, and it's why I'd like to see it there.

And is it really necessary to refer to ALL motion controls as "waggle"? "Waggle" is bull#### motions added to cop-out games to boast that the game has Wii Remote functionality. There are games on the system that have put the motion controls to very good use, and yet they get grouped in with the same "waggle" nonsense that games like Baroque used.

[Arjuna]

Aside from Suikoden II, I thought carrying over saves was pretty worthless.

Also I think depending on what kind of weapon the new Tenkai is going to wield, using the Wii mote in duels would be really ####ing awesome.

[Sei]

Aside from Suikoden II, I thought carrying over saves was pretty worthless.

Also I think depending on what kind of weapon the new Tenkai is going to wield, using the Wii mote in duels would be really ####ing awesome.

I hadn't thought of that. That would indeed be neat. Hmm, the other games had carrying saves stuff too, and some of it was neat. the most dramatic was in 2, though.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Well, S4 -> Rhapsodia save carry over was pretty neat, since it was essentially the same thing as the Suikoden 1 -> 2 carry over(Hero from last game in new game).

But yeah, the 2 -> 3 carry-over was worthless and there wasn't any in 4 or 5.


Also I think depending on what kind of weapon the new Tenkai is going to wield, using the Wii mote in duels would be really ####ing awesome.


I've been saying this from the beginning, to be honest. I think it could be done really well.

[Arjuna]

Well, S4 -> Rhapsodia save carry over was pretty neat, since it was essentially the same thing as the Suikoden 1 -> 2 carry over(Hero from last game in new game).

But yeah, the 2 -> 3 carry-over was worthless and there wasn't any in 4 or 5.


Also I think depending on what kind of weapon the new Tenkai is going to wield, using the Wii mote in duels would be really ####ing awesome.


I've been saying this from the beginning, to be honest. I think it could be done really well.

Yeah but Rhapsodia itself wasn't good.. at all. Suikoden II on the other hand was the damn best.

Same. Ever since Himuro made that thread based on that rumor of a Suikoden coming to Wii a while back.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I liked Rhapsodia more than 4. Probably because of the noticeable lack of sailing.

[Kaibigan]

Well, S4 -> Rhapsodia save carry over was pretty neat, since it was essentially the same thing as the Suikoden 1 -> 2 carry over(Hero from last game in new game).

But yeah, the 2 -> 3 carry-over was worthless and there wasn't any in 4 or 5.


Also I think depending on what kind of weapon the new Tenkai is going to wield, using the Wii mote in duels would be really ####ing awesome.


I've been saying this from the beginning, to be honest. I think it could be done really well.

The transfers are good only if you got all 108 SoD. You were right: 1 > 2 transfer and 4 > Tactics were good. 2 > 3 offered very little. I don't know about the Duel thing, though it would be nice. If they did it, there should be more duels.

[Kaibigan]

We've already seen what the Wii does to tradtional RPG series...

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/9/932979_75512_front.jpg

Considering Kenshin Dragon Quest: Resurrection of the Legendary Sword came out as an all-in-one a/v plug in game with a Sword Peripheral, the Wii didn't do anything to the traditional series. Dragon Quest Swords is the Sequel on the wii. If anything, blame the teams who made the games. The idea had come up and was realized before the wii existed.

[Sei]

I'll be happy as long as it maintains the formula of the first two. I liked 3, but...

The army battles, duels, etc, I felt were done the best in 1> My Suikoden rankings are 1, 2, 3, 5, 4, Tactics. In the first one I would be really looking forward to army battles, then in the second one they were mostly scripted and in the third one, mostly absent.

[raum215]

The Twilight Princess game rocks on the Wii.

FAIL

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A7PYD31XL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

or it's not Link...

[Constraint]

Suikoden III was the ####ing bomb though. Played through that game 4 times. :shock:

[Gen Eric Gui]

I think Suikoden 3 is the only one where I actively tried to max out almost all the characters. The skill system had so many surprises in it, like who knew that Connie the dog was the best summoner in the game? Or that Fred, despite not having as much raw DEF as Leo or Mua, was still the least killable unit in the game?

Suikoden 3 was so awesome just for that.

[Arjuna]

Suikoden III's battle system was incredibly slow and disappointing at first. Especially compared to I and II's. I always dread the first few hours of playthrough, it's not until you start getting around B graded skills till the game starts getting a lot of fun. I love maxing out, you just get ridiculous and can attack multiple times and are so quick. I still say they shouldn't have started you out so pathetically slow, it was really lame.

[Flußkönig]

^Talking about slow and disappointing, I always hated playing through Thomas' perspective. I know you didn't have to, but I always just gritted my teeth and bared with it just for the sake of having a complete story.

I guess it was pretty fun leveling up Thomas and crew and kicking the knights asses in the strategic battles, but that was about all the fun to be had for me.

I loved everything else about Suikoden III though.

[Arjuna]

I think they made up for that when you got to play through Luc's PoV. It was ####ing win having Sarah and Yuber in your party along with Albert Silverberg on the side.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Thomas' group was my favorite of the 108 characters, so I didn't mind his sections of the game as much. At least two members of his group are always in my final party.

I never found the battle system in 3 to be all that slow, though. The battles always lasted about the same length throughout the whole game for me.

[Sei]

Geddoe was my favorite. His game was the hardest and most rewarding I thought.

[Foryth]

Geddoe rocked, in fact his whole team rocked. It would be hard for me to choose between them and the Viktor and Flik duo as my favorites.

It would be cool if the next game was about Hikusaak and Holy Harmonia.

[RayFoxSith]

I totally forgot, but what runes did Yuber have when you could have him on your party?

[Foryth]

From what I've read on suikosource, he holds the Eightfold Rune, which is apparently a true rune. I think the rune he has equiped in Suikoden III is called Eight-Devil Rune though, it's been a while since I last played.

[unknown]

I think IV is my favorite for being the first Suikoden game I played, even though it was crappy as hell, main character looked and ran like crap in game, weak story, there was something about it that made me love it >_>

Rune of Punishment owned in Suikoden Tactics though.

[Foryth]

I still enjoyed IV (In fact I played it twice. Once when I didn't own a PS2 and once when I bought it.) But it was admitedly the worse in the series.

[Arjuna]

I totally forgot, but what runes did Yuber have when you could have him on your party?

The Eightfold rune, also known as the Eightdevil rune and the Hachifusa rune.

Anyway the attack he did have was the Eight Devil attack which Yuber had a bunch of different clone like versions of himself come out and just attack you viciously in unison.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I think IV is my favorite for being the first Suikoden game I played, even though it was crappy as hell, main character looked and ran like crap in game, weak story, there was something about it that made me love it >_>

Rune of Punishment owned in Suikoden Tactics though.

That's because it wasn't the Rune of Punishment anymore. It was the Rune of Forgiveness.

I'm pretty sure Yuber's rune isn't a True Rune. It's not powerful enough to be one.

[Sei]

^ I'm pretty sure that it is. He can teleport, control monsters and is immortal, Also, he hasn't really used it to it's full power. That is more than a lot of the other true runes can do.

The rune gets it's name from the eightfold path in buddhism to terminate suffering, which might, or might not be corrupt.

Pretty big concept for a regular rune. http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

[Arjuna]

^ I'm pretty sure that it is. He can teleport, control monsters and is immortal, Also, he hasn't really used it to it's full power. That is more than a lot of the other true runes can do.

The rune gets it's name from the eightfold path in buddhism to terminate suffering, which might, or might not be corrupt.

Pretty big concept for a regular rune. http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

He also seemed a lot weaker in Suikoden III. I wouldn't doubt that he was either considering in the past games usually someone elite would do it. Like Windy from Suikoden, and Leon Silverberg in Suikoden II. Albert Silverberg seemed kinda too young, I mean he didn't even have armor, didn't summon monsters, and wasn't even as intimidating to others as he was in the previous games.

[Gen Eric Gui]

A lot of his powers don't come directly from the rune though. The series director said that both Yuber and Pesmerga are immortal without the power of the rune(Especially a given since Pez doesn't have one). And in at least one of the first two games, Pez said something about being able to nullify Yuber's ability to summon demons, and once again given that Pez doesn't have a rune himself, more then likely indicates that Yuber could do that without the rune too.

Yuber is a demon of chaos, bent on wreaking as much havok in as little time as possible. He doesn't need a rune to do most of the things he does.

There's also the fact that he's drawn to serve under others who control True Runes, rather than tries to exert any influence over the runes himself. Each True Rune exists pretty much for the sole purpose of exerting it's own influence on the world, and somehow I don't think serving and helping other True Runes would assist "his" in spreading it's influence.


But in any case, it's all just speculation on either of our parts because the series director refuses to reveal anything meaningful about either of the black knights.

[unknown]

I think IV is my favorite for being the first Suikoden game I played, even though it was crappy as hell, main character looked and ran like crap in game, weak story, there was something about it that made me love it >_>

Rune of Punishment owned in Suikoden Tactics though.

That's because it wasn't the Rune of Punishment anymore. It was the Rune of Forgiveness.

I'm pretty sure Yuber's rune isn't a True Rune. It's not powerful enough to be one.

Rune of Punishment is just a nickname for that Rune, I think its original name was Rune of Atonement and Forgiveness or something.

[RayFoxSith]

I hope in the next installment Yuber comes back and they clarify the relationship between him and Pesmerga.

[Constraint]

Speaking of which, Pesmerga should've been in Suikoden III.

But I never played Suikoden II, so I don't know much about Pesmerga.
But yeah, Luc's scenario was the ####.

[RayFoxSith]

^He was in II as well. ####, now I should go back and see if I investigated his background.

[Gen Eric Gui]

All Richmond can find out about Pez in S2 is that he never takes his armor off, even to sleep at take baths, and that he mysteriously doesn't make any noise walking the halls even though he wears a full set of plate mail. He isn't able to make any other headway into the investigation, IIRC.

I too wondered why Pez wasn't present in S3. Although it kinda makes sense, since Pez is always about 8 steps behind Yuber every time you actually do see him. He probably didn't even make it into the Zexen area on Yuber's trail before the war ended.

Yet another fun fact from the producer, the conflict between Yuber and Pez will only be settled in the very final Suikoden game. Meaning, I take it, that their fight isn't actually meant to resolve at any point.

[allie_razakel]

^ Agreed. It needs to be resolved.

Oh, and

More insights on Harmonia.

From what I notice, we've only heard of Harmonia, but we've never BEEN in it.

Might be interesting if the next Suikoden starts there. I'd very much like to explore more on Harmonia and study on its social class, etc.

[unknown]

I have a feeling the next game is going to be about that one country next to Falena.

[allie_razakel]

I have a feeling the next game is going to be about that one country next to Falena.

Sounds like another prequel. -sighs-

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'd actually prefer that it doesn't get resolved. Because, as I said in my post, the moment their fight resolves, that's the end of the series.

I don't think we'll be seeing a game set in Harmonia anytime soon. Hikusaak controls the Circle Rune, which IIRC creates a perfect balance of power and he's been using it to keep Harmonia in a perfect, steady balance since he founded the place himself untold thousands of years back. The basis of the story in Suikoden games is a weak person rising to overcome a corrupt government, and since Hikusaak and Harmonia don't fit into that description, I just don't see any significant events happening within the country's borders unless we go all the way back to it's creation and PLAY as Hikusaak, or they somehow remove Hikusaak and the Circle Rune form the equation so that Harmonia can become corrupt and overthrowable.

Edit: There' currently a couple of places they could go with the game. There's numerous countries they've mentioned in the 5 games that they have yet to visit.

[Foryth]

Well, the way they set up things in Suikoden V, I guess there's a good chance the next game will feature Nagarea, or Kanakan and the southern regions. Though this is pure speculation. I would very much like them to surprise me. (Pahn or Flik and Viktor for the win! :P )

[Arjuna]

I don't want to see those other countries, I want Harmonia.

[allie_razakel]

I don't think we'll be seeing a game set in Harmonia anytime soon. Hikusaak controls the Circle Rune, which IIRC creates a perfect balance of power and he's been using it to keep Harmonia in a perfect, steady balance since he founded the place himself untold thousands of years back. The basis of the story in Suikoden games is a weak person rising to overcome a corrupt government, and since Hikusaak and Harmonia don't fit into that description, I just don't see any significant events happening within the country's borders unless we go all the way back to it's creation and PLAY as Hikusaak, or they somehow remove Hikusaak and the Circle Rune form the equation so that Harmonia can become corrupt and overthrowable.

Well, theocracy is one thing, but suppose Harmonia, in a way, is a corrupted government (seems more like dictator-ish than theocratic. Also, note that

Hikusaak made both Luc and Sasarai his clones so that they can continue the rule...well, more on Sasarai, that is.

Isn't that dictator-ish? Besides, I'm sure someone from Harmonia would suspect something amiss here and there and start revolting, wouldn't it?

[Foryth]

I'd love nothing more than seeing Harmonia and Hikusaak as well, but I get the feeling they'll be keeping it until the last Suikoden. It would be most fitting for the big final showdown of the true runes and as a conclusion to the series, seeing how Harmonia has been trying to extend its influence pretty much everywhere and seems to be presented as the most powerful nation.

I'd like it if they clarified the mysteries surrounding the Sindar as well. From what little information is known, their rune of Change seems to be the exact opposite of Hikusaak's Circle rune. Those two in one game would make a pretty epic Suikoden. 8)

(*edit : yeah Harmonia always seemed pretty dictator-ish to me, seeing how they treat citizens from conquered nations.)

[allie_razakel]

I'd love nothing more than seeing Harmonia and Hikusaak as well, but I get the feeling they'll be keeping it until the last Suikoden. It would be most fitting for the big final showdown of the true runes and as a conclusion to the series, seeing how Harmonia has been trying to extend its influence pretty much everywhere and seems to be presented as the most powerful nation.

I'd like it if they clarified the mysteries surrounding the Sindar as well. From what little information is known, their rune of Change seems to be the exact opposite of Hikusaak's Circle rune. Those two in one game would make a pretty epic Suikoden. 8)

(*edit : yeah Harmonia always seemed pretty dictator-ish to me, seeing how they treat citizens from conquered nations.)

I almost forgot about Sindar and their rune, lol. Yes, those two should have a showdown, somehow. But hey...if that's the case, then Harmonia would have existed during the time when the Sindar existed centuries ago, won't it? 0_0

Oh, jolly! I can actually think of a story for this one! Perhaps a fanfic! An epic fanfic!

Anyway, getting back to the main topic, yes, I agree with you. The thing about Harmonia and their 1st class-3rd class citizens. That should be enough to raise a rebellion of some sort, no?

[RayFoxSith]

I want Harmonia.

[allie_razakel]

YES, THE WORLD WANTS HARMONIA. GIVE US HARMONIA, KONAMI!

NO MORE PREQUELS!

HARMONIA!

HARMONIA!

HARMONIA!

...

Yea, I should take a break.

[Gen Eric Gui]

*headdesk*

I can't believe I got that wrong.

Circle Rune isn't the rune of balance, it's the rune of stagnation, an ever-extending unbroken line. Your comments about the Sindar reminded me. I was still right, but for the wrong reasons.

Harmonia is a dictatorship. Hikusaak is a completely insane brute of a leader, but because of his True Rune and his thousand year attachment to it, it's unlikely that anything will ever come of it. His citizens won't rebel because the Rune is basically overpowering them. It's like the Papacy in a way; even if the Pope turns out to be kind of a jerk, nobody will question it because he's the freakin' Pope. Harmonia pretty much CANNOT change, unless you get someone with an equally powerful mastery of his/her own True Rune to come in, and the only person who could possibly live up to that is the Leader of the Sindar bearing the Rune of Change, but I think he sealed it like they sealed the Fire and Water Runes.

There's a chance of it happening, but much like Foryth I'm pretty sure that if Harmonia ever does fall, it'll be in the final Suikoden game. The country is just too large and too powerful.

(Someone asked about Hikusaak and the Sindar existing at the same time, and IRC they actually did. One of them appeared first, but I can't remember which. I know that Hikusaak created Harmonia really ####ing long ago, because the date the city was they day they started their current calendar, and I'm pretty sure they're in the several thousands of years. I don't think anybody knows if the Sindar came before or after that though.)

[Foryth]

I've read that Sindar ruins already existed in Arona before Hikusaak overthrew it and created Harmonia. Also, about Sindar having only existed thousands of years in the past, I'm pretty sure I've read that they probably still exist somewhere, unknown to the rest of the world due to the nature of their rune.


Rune of Change

Current Owner: Unknown (Leader of the Sindar)

Past Owners: Unknown

A True Rune representing change that affects all in the universe. The powers of this rune and its whereabouts remain a mystery. However, it is said that the Leader of the Sindars hold this rune, forcing the Sindars to move from place to place as a curse. However, it is said that the Sindars finally found their "eternal city" after their eternal wander.

I've seen the theory that they could actualy appear as a "third force" in the conflict against Harmonia. I think that would be a good approach.

I'd also like to know more about the origins of Jeane and Eresh, why they are so ancient and why Jeane and Viki seem to be bound to the wars involving the stars of destiny. Also, more about Viki's village and possibly the sisters Leknaat and Windy.

Okay, I'll stop now, I think my inner fanboy has spoken enough. :oops:

[Sei]

I want Harmonia.

[unknown]

I want moar Viki

[allie_razakel]

Harmonia is a dictatorship. Hikusaak is a completely insane brute of a leader, but because of his True Rune and his thousand year attachment to it, it's unlikely that anything will ever come of it. His citizens won't rebel because the Rune is basically overpowering them. It's like the Papacy in a way; even if the Pope turns out to be kind of a jerk, nobody will question it because he's the freakin' Pope. Harmonia pretty much CANNOT change, unless you get someone with an equally powerful mastery of his/her own True Rune to come in, and the only person who could possibly live up to that is the Leader of the Sindar bearing the Rune of Change, but I think he sealed it like they sealed the Fire and Water Runes.

Then I'm pretty sure other people who wields a True Rune would be able to revolt against this, won't they? I mean, after all, what else are they there for after the war on the Sword and the Shield, etc.

And the True Runes grant their wielders immortality, (e.g. Luc, Sasarai, Jeane...

...Geddoe, Wyatt Lightfellow, etc)

so should their strengths be combined together, (and let's not forget Jowy and Riou, if they're still around, and if they still have the rune with them. I haven't finished Suikoden II yet.) shouldn't they be strong enough to go against Hikusaak and his rune?

Maybe not the new wielders of the True Runes...

Like Chris and Hugo.

But people like Jowy, Riou, (Is Tir still alive, btw?) Jeane, etc, I'm sure they had more than enough time to master their True Runes. Aren't they probably as strong as the leader of the Sindars by now?

[unknown]

Lazlo (SIV Hero) is probably around still too

[allie_razakel]

Lazlo (SIV Hero) is probably around still too

But you forget. Remember what Rakgi (Forgot how to spell her name, but it was the white-haired lady in the game who tells you about the story of the Rune of Punishment) said?

Even her husband, who wielded the Rune of Punishment, died at the hands of it. It consumes its wielders, I believe, and that's why the ones who wielded this rune didn't last long.

Remember Commander Glen? Remember Kika's lover? Remember Rakgi's husband? They had the rune and they died. Glen was the fastest, so far. 0.0

[Foryth]

Taken from Suikosource :

During this time the young man managed to survive using the Rune's power a total of four time;, before the power of the 108 Stars of Destiny moved the Rune into its little seen forgiveness phase, where it no longer drains the life of its bearer. Since then the bearer vanished from the pages of history, knowing full well that his death would see the cycle of death and destruction start over again.

So I guess we could see him, but I think it is rather unlikely. (Not that I care much about him anyway.)

[unknown]

The Rune of Punishment switched into its atonement phase though thanks to the 108 Stars of Destiny at the end of SIV. In Suikoden Tactics Lazlo says that he no longer gets tired or hurt when using it in battle.

[allie_razakel]

Taken from Suikosource :

During this time the young man managed to survive using the Rune's power a total of four time;, before the power of the 108 Stars of Destiny moved the Rune into its little seen forgiveness phase, where it no longer drains the life of its bearer. Since then the bearer vanished from the pages of history, knowing full well that his death would see the cycle of death and destruction start over again.

So I guess we could see him, but I think it is rather unlikely. (Not that I care much about him anyway.)

I see. Thanks for correcting me then. ^_^;

[Arjuna]

Wow who cares really? Lazlo was almost as bad as a Tenkai as Thomas. Except Suikoden IV was an overall terrible game, so it made it much worse.

[allie_razakel]

Wow who cares really? Lazlo was almost as bad as a Tenkai as Thomas. Except Suikoden IV was an overall terrible game, so it made it much worse.

In terms of gameplay (comparing IV to V), I prefer IV. At least it doesn't provide a BIRD'S EYE VIEW on your character. And I think it runs smoother than Suikoden V too.

But yea, I can't really be bothered with Lazlo.

[unknown]

Lazlo was awesome in Tactics.

[Futomimi]

I hate even thinking about Suiko 4. Slowest-moving RPG I've ever played in my life. UGH!

[allie_razakel]

I hate even thinking about Suiko 4. Slowest-moving RPG I've ever played in my life. UGH!

At least it wasn't as slow as Xenosaga II, if we're still in the topic of Slower-Moving RPG.

Suikoden IV was considerably...fast.

[Sanctine]

I hate even thinking about Suiko 4. Slowest-moving RPG I've ever played in my life. UGH!

Huhh?

I've heard complaints about IV, but being a slow game was not one of them. I personally really enjoyed IV, and one of the things I liked so much about it was that it went by quite quickly. The pacing (as well as your ability to run like a squirrel) was very fast.

[Foryth]

The sailing could get tiresome though. Otherwise I think the pace was alright.

[Sanctine]

The sailing could get tiresome though.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that.

Still, later in the game it becomes pretty much optional.

[Futomimi]

I remember not much happening at all with the story (not that I really care too much about the story, but come on..) and the sailing being incredibly tedious. The latter was the reason that I ultimately ended up selling the game after getting 10-20 hours in.

[Sanctine]

I remember not much happening at all with the story (not that I really care too much about the story, but come on..) and the sailing being incredibly tedious. The latter was the reason that I ultimately ended up selling the game after being 20 or so hours in.

The game only took me 20 hours to complete. And I got everything.

[Futomimi]

Really? Hmm. It's been at least 2 years since I played it.
I forget which part I was at, but it was a few hours after a fight with a sea monster or something.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Harmonia is a dictatorship. Hikusaak is a completely insane brute of a leader, but because of his True Rune and his thousand year attachment to it, it's unlikely that anything will ever come of it. His citizens won't rebel because the Rune is basically overpowering them. It's like the Papacy in a way; even if the Pope turns out to be kind of a jerk, nobody will question it because he's the freakin' Pope. Harmonia pretty much CANNOT change, unless you get someone with an equally powerful mastery of his/her own True Rune to come in, and the only person who could possibly live up to that is the Leader of the Sindar bearing the Rune of Change, but I think he sealed it like they sealed the Fire and Water Runes.

Then I'm pretty sure other people who wields a True Rune would be able to revolt against this, won't they? I mean, after all, what else are they there for after the war on the Sword and the Shield, etc.

And the True Runes grant their wielders immortality, (e.g. Luc, Sasarai, Jeane...

...Geddoe, Wyatt Lightfellow, etc)

so should their strengths be combined together, (and let's not forget Jowy and Riou, if they're still around, and if they still have the rune with them. I haven't finished Suikoden II yet.) shouldn't they be strong enough to go against Hikusaak and his rune?

Maybe not the new wielders of the True Runes...

Like Chris and Hugo.

But people like Jowy, Riou, (Is Tir still alive, btw?) Jeane, etc, I'm sure they had more than enough time to master their True Runes. Aren't they probably as strong as the leader of the Sindars by now?

Hikusaak has had his rune for thousands of years. The only other Rune bearer confirmed to be equally proficient is the leader of the Sindar(Possibly Jeane too, but lulz nobody knows). To date, the oldest Suikoden Hero is Lazlo, who at the time of Suikoden 3 would have had his rune for about...165 years or so? I think Suikoden 4 was 150 years before 1 but I'm not sure. Although if you were to factor Leknaat into the equation things could change, since she's had her Rune for a long-ass time(It's at least longer than 300 years, since Windy had her half of the rune when she killed Ted's Grandfather).

Anyway, even with all the other True Rune bearers joined together they don't even begin to compare to Hikusaak's understanding of how the runes work. MAYBE if you consider Suikoden 2's bad ending to be canon they'd have a chance, since Riou would have the Rune of Beginning which is supposed to be the most powerful of the runes by a lot. But it's not canon so he doesn't have that and the point is moot.

Tir is still alive as of the end of Suikoden 3. Riou and Jowy are both still alive as well, although I'm not sure if they get immortality from their runes since Bright Shield and Black Blade aren't actually True Runes in and of themselves, just halves of an actual True Rune(And not halves like the Gate Rune either, which is literally a True Rune split in two. They're incomplete pieces that don't have the power of a True Rune at all). And yeah, as was already said, Lazlo is a big maybe.

Farouche doesn't have a True Rune. Sun Rune is kept in Falena Palace after he leaves with Georg.

And Thomas was an AWESOME Tenkai. Not as awesome as Tir or Riou or Farouche, but still plenty awesome enough, especially once you figure out how to abuse the skill system. <3 him so much.

[unknown]

Wait, so the Faroush leaving with Georg ending is canon?

awwwwww

[allie_razakel]

Hikusaak has had his rune for thousands of years. The only other Rune bearer confirmed to be equally proficient is the leader of the Sindar(Possibly Jeane too, but lulz nobody knows). To date, the oldest Suikoden Hero is Lazlo, who at the time of Suikoden 3 would have had his rune for about...165 years or so? I think Suikoden 4 was 150 years before 1 but I'm not sure. Although if you were to factor Leknaat into the equation things could change, since she's had her Rune for a long-ass time(It's at least longer than 300 years, since Windy had her half of the rune when she killed Ted's Grandfather).

Anyway, even with all the other True Rune bearers joined together they don't even begin to compare to Hikusaak's understanding of how the runes work. MAYBE if you consider Suikoden 2's bad ending to be canon they'd have a chance, since Riou would have the Rune of Beginning which is supposed to be the most powerful of the runes by a lot. But it's not canon so he doesn't have that and the point is moot.

Tir is still alive as of the end of Suikoden 3. Riou and Jowy are both still alive as well, although I'm not sure if they get immortality from their runes since Bright Shield and Black Blade aren't actually True Runes in and of themselves, just halves of an actual True Rune(And not halves like the Gate Rune either, which is literally a True Rune split in two. They're incomplete pieces that don't have the power of a True Rune at all). And yeah, as was already said, Lazlo is a big maybe.

Farouche doesn't have a True Rune. Sun Rune is kept in Falena Palace after he leaves with Georg.

And Thomas was an AWESOME Tenkai. Not as awesome as Tir or Riou or Farouche, but still plenty awesome enough, especially once you figure out how to abuse the skill system. <3 him so much.

Yes, I suppose Lazlo is one. And the Sun Rune wouldn't be able to stand against Hikusaak's. But I went through Suikosource and found this...

Sovereign Rune

A True Rune representing aboslute rule, the Sovereign Rune has been the Rugner family's family heirloom since Kranach Rugner created the Scarlet Moon Empire. Before that, the Sovereign Rune belonged to the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia, and was protected within the Holy City of Rupanda (Later renamed Gregminster). The rune's powers are still a mystery, but it grants it's bearers complete immunity to all runes, and also allows its bearer to change into a three-headed dragon. Barbarossa, as its bearer, chose to embed this rune on his Dragon King Sword. Since Barbarossa fell from his castle's balcony, this rune's whereabouts are unknown.

Don't know where it is now, but if someone finds it? Big possibility?

[Gen Eric Gui]

Sun Rune is plenty powerful, I mean it can raze a whole ####ing country if the bearer really wants it to. And it has the same brand of Fate Manipulation(R) that the other True Runes do, so as I've been saying it really comes down to who is more proficient with it. And Hikusaak wins that battle by a wide margin, especially considering that the longest anybody bore the Sun Rune was, what? A day?

The problem with your Sovereign Rune theory that the True Runes don't always work the way you think they do. Every single one of them is sentient and able to manipulate fate. The Sovereign Rune's bearer may be immune to direct assaults by other runes, even True Runes, but a True Rune wouldn't need to do that. All it would need to do was manipulate fate to cause some other harm to befall the rune bearer.

I mean, how do you think they killed Barbarossa, the previous wielder? Tir didn't defeat him with the Soul Eater, they wore down his Dragon body and -somehow- Barbarossa realized that Windy was tricking him and threw himself and her off the castle garden's balcony. At least, I had always assumed that to be the Soul Eater pushing it's influence over a weak Sovereign bearer, or the Sovereign Rune getting rid of it's own weak bearer to try and find a new one.

An even better example of this is how the Soul Eater twisted #### up to make sure that all of Tir's closest friends and family would die in his arms so it could consume them. It's a fairly powerful rune, what with giving it's bearer the ability to literally decide if someone or something lives or dies with a thought, but the way it basically masterminded a plot to wipe out Tir's entire lifetime of loved ones is pretty telling of how much influence these things have outside of whatever their "normal" powers are.

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the canon ending to S5 was the one where Lyon and Farouche both leave with Georg.

[unknown]

Pretty sure the Queen bore the Sun Rune for more then a day >_>

[Gen Eric Gui]

Oh, duh. Sorry, I'm getting all my #### mixed up. I remembered her saying she bore the rune specifically to deter Godwin and Barrows from stealing it, but I forgot that she never actually took it off after that. I kept remembering Lym and Godwin looking at the Sindar statue that held the rune, and I kept thinking that was somehow before the Queen's death.

My bad. She had it for a few years. But my point is still the same.


Edit: You know, a thought just occurred to me, thinking about all those scenes in S5. Wasn't Jeanne able to move the Sun Rune from the Sindar statue, even though she wasn't the Queen? Anyone want to be she's connected to the Sindar? She's always traveling, always involved in important events, has some kind of secret rune that nobody can catch more than a glimpse of, and she's way more skilled as a Runemaster than any -normal- Runemaster in the games.

What if she's the Sindar leader? Wouldn't that be interesting?

[allie_razakel]

Edit: You know, a thought just occurred to me, thinking about all those scenes in S5. Wasn't Jeanne able to move the Sun Rune from the Sindar statue, even though she wasn't the Queen? Anyone want to be she's connected to the Sindar? She's always traveling, always involved in important events, has some kind of secret rune that nobody can catch more than a glimpse of, and she's way more skilled as a Runemaster than any -normal- Runemaster in the games.

What if she's the Sindar leader? Wouldn't that be interesting?

Jeane? Sindar leader? LOL.

But I thought her rune was more on the...beauty-ish thing? And well, didn't Suikosource mentioned that the Sindars have somehow found their eternal resting place so that they're no longer traveling? So why would she still be traveling around?

And speaking of runes, I remember the Sun Rune destroying the whole Sindar city there...or was it really the Sindar city? I'm not sure, but it was a particular city. If it's powerful enough to wipe out a Sindar city, it should be enough to destroy Harmonia, right?

I guess there is a slim chance on defeating Hikusaak's Circle Rune from this...and by the way...

Why was he creating clones of himself (Luc & Sasarai)? Wasn't the rune alone enough to give him immortality? And I thought he was supposedly dead?

[Arjuna]

Ew this topic reeks of Suikosource.

[allie_razakel]

Ew this topic reeks of Suikosource.

Boy do I feel like a geek. =.=

[Gen Eric Gui]

We're posting on a game publisher's internet message board about games. If you didn't already feel like a geek, it's about time you started.


@Allie: Just because they as a tribe settled doesn't mean their leader had to. S/he did still have the Rune of Change, after all. But it's just a theory, which is all we can do until the games tell us otherwise.

And I would assume that there's some kind of safeguard to prevent Harmonia from being nuked by the Sun Rune, even if the only safeguard was the fact that only the Royalty of Falena are even allowed to touch it. It also completely and utterly decimates the land, so I doubt it'd be something that a "hero" would use to overthrow a "tyrannical" Harmonia, since it would just kill everybody.

RE: Hikusaak

As for the cloning, from what I've gathered, Luc and Sasarai were essentially a backup plan, in addition to being convenient places for the True Wind and Earth Runes to take up residence in. IF something were ever to happen to Hikusaak, he has a perfect clone of himself that already has plenty of experience wielding a True Rune to take his place as bearer of the Circle Rune. At least, that's my best guess as I don't think they've ever said explicitly WHY he made them, other than for them to be bearers for the Wind and Earth runes.

[Tenbatsu]

I'm not getting my hopes up yet. Even if this is a sign of things to come, a new Suikoden will probably not be out for another two years.

I'm also hoping it's not a hand held title.

[Futomimi]

^ Your av is creepy.

[Kid Marin]

There is a 4 pages-preview of Suikoden Tierkreis (DS) in Famitsu.

[Arjuna]

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zbb1om.jpg

DO WANT.

[SlaughterX]

Hmm, DS ehh? Well, as long as it's side story I guess it's ok... Suikoden VI better be in HD!

[Thunder-Slash]

http://img.imgcake.com/1219218560947.jpg

[Himuro]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j1wlms.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/10qctcl.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2hq5u75.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2gud3bo.jpg


Characters

The main character has no name, but apparently will be voiced by Takashi Hiroshi. It is unknown if this will just be in 'grunts' a la Lazlo and Freyjadour in Suikoden IV and V or like Kyril in Suikoden Tactics.

The character Jair (ジェイル) will be voiced by Ryotaro Okiayu. The female character Malikah (マリカ) will be voiced by Sakamoto Maya. Liu (リウ) will be voiced by Tetsuya Kakihara and finally, Dirug (ディルグ) will be voiced by Konishi Katsuyuki who is also voicing Viktor in the Suikoden radio drama detailed on this site.

A shark race may be introduced into the series if one of the images has been interpreted correctly. All together now; grrrroan!

Gameplay

The gameplay takes advantage of the Nintendo DS's touch screen. The top screen shows character status information. HP, MP, status effects and the like. Meanwhile, you can use the DS stylus to enter commands in battle on the touch screen.

Other observations include: The battle system appears to be a four person battle system, like Suikoden IV. As such, it is a traditional RPG, not a strategy RPG like Suikoden Tactics.

Looking at the status screen it appears traditional Suikoden MP is OUT, to be replaced with standard MP numbers comparable to HP. Like in Final Fantasy VII, for example (and 90% of every RPG ever).

[Gen Eric Gui]

I think I just went blind from happiness. This is the greatest announcement of the entire year. I love you Konami.

Looking at the status screen it appears traditional Suikoden MP is OUT, to be replaced with standard MP numbers comparable to HP. Like in Final Fantasy VII, for example (and 90% of every RPG ever).

Ok, I love you a little less. But still. SUIKODEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sei]

Day one. I like the shark race.

[Foryth]

:D

[RayFoxSith]

Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one. Day mother ####ing one.

[Flußkönig]

Wow more ####ty looking 3-D on the DS. I can't wait. This new Suikoden game seems like it would have been a great chance to go back to and/or improve on the awesome sprites from the first two games.

Hopefully it will be fun.

[Gillian Seed]

Why with the 4 person party and MP system changing? Oh well, I am still interested.

[Futomimi]

The backgrounds are pretty, but I dunno about the battle system. Still interested.

[Reinbach]

I come back from the seaside and I find out that a new Suikoden has been announced! This is awesome!
I'll buy the japanese version on day one, that's for sure.

But, why the DS? I wasn't hoping for a handheld game, at all. Well, still better than the Wii, I guess.

[unknown]

Officially announced for the US

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/16/konami-unleashes-suikoden-tierkreis-for-ds/

#### yes

[Gen Eric Gui]

I came so hard it put a hole in my wall.

I will camp outside the Konami printing factory and grab the first copy as it comes off the press.

[allie_razakel]

They changed the artist. =/

Oh well, it seems a wee bit less colourful than V and more colourful than IV. XD A bit in between.

And I see familiar locations. Does it say which continent/kingdom/queendom/etc will it be based in?

ALSO

Is it another prequel to the first game?

[rainking187]

I came so hard it put a hole in my wall.

I'd see a doctor.

[unknown]

And a carpenter

[Gen Eric Gui]

They changed the artist. =/

Oh well, it seems a wee bit less colourful than V and more colourful than IV. XD A bit in between.

And I see familiar locations. Does it say which continent/kingdom/queendom/etc will it be based in?

ALSO

Is it another prequel to the first game?

The only nae we've gotten so far is that the continent is named something like "Salsaville" and that it's apparently been mentioned in a previous game. From the way the general areas look it seems to be relatively close to the island nations though.

We don't know where in the Suikoden timeline the game occurs yet, to my knowledge.

[allie_razakel]

Ah, I just heard that it takes place after III. Not sure why and how...

Island Nations? Hm, odd, their clothes look strangely similar to Falenans.

[Gen Eric Gui]

Don't take my comments about the setting as even a rough guess, I'm just extrapolating from the scenery in the game, it reminds me of the Island Nations is all. It could be on the other side of Harmonia for all we know.

[allie_razakel]

I sure hope so. XD And I doubt you'd want to go back to our tireless Q&A session on Harmonia~

[TM Artist]

The "One King" and "The World's largest library"...does it ring a bell?

[jj984jj]

IGN and 1UP have previews up:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/910/910389p1.html
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3169998&p=39&sec=PREVIEWS
And some videos too. (http://media.ds.ign.com/media/142/14275824/vids_1.html)

I think VA is pretty awful, the battles look pretty quick though. Still don't know if it'll be any good, the preview is overly positive but they usually are. Of course this confirms a North American release, it's nice that they confirmed it so quickly.

[allie_razakel]

The "One King" and "The World's largest library"...does it ring a bell?

HARMONIA! 8U

[Himuro]

I kneed this.

[jeffx]

^ I rheely do too!
When will the waiting hand?
I want in on the actshin!
Suikoden is a fantasstic series...

[Master Zombots]

I read about this game a little while ago; it seems great! I can't wait for it to come to North America. :)

[Constraint]

The main character design is awful.

[Luna]

So... anyone going to get this? Looks really good, plus there are some great pre-order goodies that come with it.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'll be dropping everything to play this.

[SickleCellAnemia]

plus there are some great pre-order goodies that come with it.

For those that don't know, it's an art book and soundtrack:
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=73021

[RayFoxSith]

Yeah I already put my preorder down for it today.