SMT 360 bound?

[raum215]

With Star Ocean, Tales, Final Fantasy coming to the 360, how reasonable is it to expect the 360 might get some love from other major RPG line-ups, including SMT.

Would ATLUS US work with or propose a PS3 Japan, mullti-platform EURO/US release, like Final Fantasy XIII is getting?

I think it is very viable, myself.

(I am not trying to start a console war. I just really don't want to spend money on new consoles, when I barely have time to play most of the games I am waiting to play.)

[Chronis]

Atlus USA doesn't make games. Atlus Japan does, and they are still on the PS2.

[Sayckeone]

With Star Ocean, Tales, Final Fantasy coming to the 360, how reasonable is it to expect the 360 might get some love from other major RPG line-ups, including SMT.
How reasonable it is to think the DS would get it first.

There's a reasonw hy these RPGs are coming to the 360, and Japan, where Megami Tensei is popular, is not the reason.

[SickleCellAnemia]

How reasonable it is to think the DS would get it first.
Yeah, DS is getting Dragon Quest IX, and that's the biggest series in Japan. I wouldn't be suprised if SMT4 happened on DS.

[Raidou11]

Atlus USA doesn't make games. Atlus Japan does, and they are still on the PS2.

PS2 is a great console! Although the list of NA releases are somewhat lacking, but that's only because most games never get localized.

[raum215]

DAMMIT@

http://www.google.com/search?q=Shin+Megami+Tensei+PS3&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

I know ATLUS US doesn't make games, but it is likely that Square's US counterpart *might* have something to do with putting FFXIII on the 360, right?

I am simply saying ATLUS is an official 3rd party publisher for the 360, not sure if it is yet for the PS3. Microsoft obviously has interest in ATLUS, who certainly just took notice that there games might actually move in the US. ATLUS: who owe us quite a few more 360 games toward the eight announced. The ps3 does pretty good for itself, but I think Japanese developers have realized finally there is business on the 360 for them, even if its not in Japan. Besides there was almost SMT Nine on XBoxLive, remember?

I salute Square Enix for making provision to deliver to their investors and their fan base. I think they found a great medium ground. And I am asking do you think we can see more of that kind of licensing to multi-consoles for games that only sell on PS3 in Japan? Do you think ATLUS would swing that way? Are they licensed for the PS3 yet?

This is not a "bring teh Persona to 360" request.

And if there was the same exact SMT title coming out, for the DS and the 360, I would get them both, and bet alot of other people would too.
HELL yah!

[Hitoshura]

No. Atlus USA doesn't "owe" a single game to the 360.

And don't bother "saluting Square-Enix for..." what, trying to make more money? No. While I don't really prefer either system over the other, this is bull####, tbh. There's almost no point in having competition between the consoles if the word "exclusive" is just ####ing tossed out the window.

[DamnedToBeFree]

^Well, if current info is true, then FFXIII will remain a PS3 exclusive in Japan.

http://www.atlus.com/new_forum/viewtopic.php?t=1757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

But I agree, if the companies keep doing stuff like this, they might as well just release the MicroSony XStation360.

[raum215]

hitoshura,

Um, yes, Atlus does owe a FEW games to the 360. It's part of being an OFFICIAL THIRD PARTY PUBLISHER. Typically, such a license is granted for a minimum of five and a standard of eight titles. ATLUS owes Microsoft games, though they might be able to opt out.

Also, an official recruiting ad from ATLUS JAPAN calls for a "multi-platform" talent base for ATLUS, and mentions 360 by name, alongside the PS3. (human translation pending, I'm not that good at Japanese and am waiting for someone to help translate get back to me.)

Link:

http://jobent.jp/detail.php?id=144

仕事内容 ●PS3・Xbox360など家庭用ゲーム機のプログラム開発。

....and the job advertisement that went up two weeks ago on July 2nd and is good until Sep 18th, OF THIS YEAR. Which means this is not just a "good to know", 360 experience is a job requirement. And the pictures on it are from Persona 4, and the famous trophy case of SMT games at ATLUS Japan. So, there, hate and daubt all you want. But, answer my question if you will - Do you think there is a chance that other developers, including ATLUS would make a game PS3 only in Japan, and multi-console in other regions?

[raum215]

As for saluting Square-Enix, I salute them for supporting their multi-platform fan base and their investors; for being true to the people who invest in them, and the people who are entertained and inspired by them. Microsoft wanted the game for its install base, who have PETITIONED for the game, and are making sure Square is given incentive and resources to make it so. how is this different than any other business? Actually, the only thing I see is Microsoft, unlike any console ever before, pays attention to petitions, and tries to get the games we "niche" gamers request.

First of all, I think that exclusive 3rd party games are inane. How would you feel if you bought a cd that could only play in a kenwood stereo? How would you feel if you bought a book that could only be seen by the light of a GE lamp? How would you feel if you bought a beer that could only be opened by a bed bath and beyond bottle opener?

Sure, a game may play better on one system that another, and may even look better on one, and may require more disks; but the fact is games are usually developed on PC's, and optimized for consoles. Microsoft game studios people are heavily compensated for first party development. Sony has some GREAT subsidized 1st party muscle they are not flexing yet (If they announce a next-gen Legend of Dragoon title today, I will buy a ps3 this month, if not today!) Nintendo is alive, but for the grace of 1st party.

But third party? No third-party game exists on 360 or PS3 that can not be done on either console. No independent developer owes it to a console to be exclusive, but they may need extra research funds for the expansion of a title to a console it was not intended for.

[Hitoshura]

hitoshura,

Um, yes, Atlus does owe a FEW games to the 360. It's part of being an OFFICIAL THIRD PARTY PUBLISHER.

Uh, what?

Also, no, 3rd party exclusive games are NOT inane. It promotes competition, which in turn promotes console manufacturers NOT TO SUCK. If there is no point in owning one system over another (and no, a handful of first-party titles does NOT give this purpose), console manufacturers will no longer see the need to make a top of the line console, and/or overprice their consoles. See, the Wii. Nintendo decided to try and appeal to a completely different demographic (people who don't already play games), and thus decided that they were in a different market. Thus, the Wii became an overpriced GameCube 2.0 with motion controls. I like my Wii, but no, the hardware inside is NOT worth 250 bucks.

So no. Square-Enix deserves no salutes for further invalidating the purpose of console exclusives.

[Sayckeone]

Um, yes, Atlus does owe a FEW games to the 360. It's part of being an OFFICIAL THIRD PARTY PUBLISHER. Typically, such a license is granted for a minimum of five and a standard of eight titles. ATLUS owes Microsoft games, though they might be able to opt out.
Dude, you're confusing Atlus USA with Atlus Japan. Just because Atlus USA is localizing 360 titles, doesn't mean that Atlus Japan is required to develop games for that console.

You know what, after reading more of your post, you're ridiculous.

[raum215]

OFFICIAL DISCLAIMER: Stop thinking you know what I am asking because it is so similar to the same ignorant things you are always hearing about people who think ATLUS US publishes games. I respect you both, from what I have read here. We might disagree, and we might even have different views of exclusivity, but plain and simple, I am offering valid points and not treating anyone like a fool and do not expect to be treated as such.

HERE IS WHAT I AM ASKING, and WHY:

FACT: ATLUS JAPAN is currently hiring for a programmer(s) in JAPAN looking for PS3 AND 360 RPG programming experience (3d studio max?) and pimping SMT in the ad. The recruiting ad only has pics of SMT and Persona on it, and the whole trophy case of SMT stuff. (hit ctrl-f and type in 360) SAFE TO SAY THIS IS NOT ATLUS USA, and 360 is RIGHT NEXT to PS3:

http://jobent.jp/detail.php?id=144

FACT: ATLUS JAPAN is a JAPANESE COMPANY associated with a fairly strong title (SMT) in the RPG genre.

FACT: ALOT of North American RPG fans are getting good games on the 360. The genre is well represented on the 360, so far this generation.

FACT: ATLUS JAPAN publishes games through ATLUS US in the US.

Question: DO you think a SMT game will be published multi-console EVERYWHERE, or if it will just be on PS3 in Japan. They are recruiting programmers with 360 experience IN JAPAN and using pics of Persona 4 and Jack Frost and the catalogue of SMT titles in their Japanese location.
How much more obvious does it have to be? It includes the target consoles of DS and PS2. it also is asking for new ideas and fresh imagination. They are not looking for a code monkey.

FFXIII's decision to go multi-console in North america will influence other companies, but will they stay PS3 exclusive in Japan?

[Raidou11]

After reading the lengthy explanation, I don't seem to see where the problem is. I mean.. ???

[Kakizaki]

pimping SMT in the ad. The recruiting ad only has pics of SMT and Persona on it, and the whole trophy case of SMT stuff.

All companies promote their flagship series in bio type stuff.


Why would Atlus put their primary franchise, and a franchise where the vast majority of their customer support base is Japanese, on a console that is selling the worst out of the current gen in Japan?

[raum215]

After reading the lengthy explanation, I don't seem to see where the problem is. I mean.. ???

It took a bit to clarify, I suppose. Whatever, not the convo i was looking for

I am in a good mood after winning 50 bucks for Nintendo announcing GTA for the DS today at E3. Did anyone not see that coming?

Consoles are the middlemen between game companies and players...

[cj iwakura]

Is this late?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=945498&topic=44264785

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5571/01di0.png

Color me optimistic.

I don't see this as being a 360-esque title, but hey, if that's what they do, I'm there.

[Hitoshura]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

ATLUS YOU BETTER NOT #### THIS UP

I WILL BE FURIOUS

Dammit. There isn't enough time to kidnap Cozy Okada. They better not #### this up, holy ####ing ####.

[Kakizaki]

ATLUS YOU BETTER NOT #### THIS UP

[Raidou11]

Is this late?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=945498&topic=44264785



What does the above link have anything to do with Shin Megami Tensei IV? I believe Persona 4 is not the same thing as SMT4.

[Saishu]

Read it and then look at the picture. SMT4.

[System_Error]

Atlus, If you #### this up I will send Lickers and all sorts of TVirus infected things to your offices to destroy you. That is all.

[raum215]

AND THE ATLUS USA (not Atarasu, btw) site incidentally is looking for a MMO Producer. and a EDI specialist.. jeez. What is the biggest console EDI market in the world? XBOX LIVE!

What online SMT thing was coming only to Japanese console, Oh yeah SMT NINE. and for what console? Oh, yeah XBOX!

(and no, it is not the ninth in the series, it is a reference to attributes!)

and what was the reason for cancelling - network issues. hmm, networking is MUCH easier and more flexible now, yah?

Now, maybe you people will see I might be on to something. perchance?

----

But I think this whole exclusive thing you people are in on, should be something you stand behind. This idea was originally being developed and concieved for XBOX LIVE, so by all means only play it on 360.

[Kakizaki]

SMT Nine was a spin off not a direct series title.


Look how well it panned out for them........Oh wait. Well at the least it is considered a quality title.......oh wait.......Guess not huh?

[System_Error]

SMT4 will be PStriple. Bank on it.

[Sayckeone]

JESUS CHRIST! I HOPE THIS POOR TRANSLATION IS WAY OFF.

Did anyone actually ready it?

Sometime into the new millenium, there is an event (he says it's not specific but Dan pointed out that it seems in context that nobody knows what it is) occurs that releases an explosion or some type of energy that causes a lot of ruin (flashy dialogue it sounded like, with a sky opening up and whatever). Human survivors in Japan flee to the rural areas becuase the cities are (AND THIS IS WHAT I THINK IS THE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE TIPOFF) taken over by demons (Dan read this as ogres first though, so I'm not sure if it really is demons. That suggestion was moreso done by me). Years pass since this disaster and the wildlife has florished into forests. The survivors brought their technology or shelter (again, choppy translating) to these forests and called these habitats or places "Jannahs" (Dan said this was in English/Romaji, so I asked him to spell it out exactly). Cities are forbidden zones or cursed (translation issues) and are taken over by demons/ogres and bad/evil people (I'm thinking he was pinpointing this as almost a new religion, possibly cult referance). Even though the cities are off limits for whatever reason, teenagers/youths are sent their for some purpose (it sounded like a weirdly phrased rite of passage ceremony). One teenager (name not specified, I guess its maybe the hero) is sent into the ruins of Tokyo which is the location of "Zero Point" (whatever that is, I'm assuming it has to do with this disaster IMO). The paragraph ends with something about the truth of the destruction and what happened being there in the ruins and that the hero will be integral to some sort of larger outcome.

SMT4 with forests? Goodbye, dark post-apoc wasteland. Hello, bright, colorful, lush forests.

Also, goodbye Megami Tensei. It's been fun.

[raum215]

I don't know what NINE was and wasn't. Never played it, and can't say what is in store for the future. I am sure some of you will be highly charged about this. Get over it, and just look at the facts. SMT NINE was never intended for America, and cancelled for networking issues (according to Atarasu). Atarasu IS looking for a 360 programmer or two in a present company of 325, they will put them to good use. Do you think it will be for SMT. They tried to bring the series on the Xbox before.

All I know, and this is not hating on any console or person, I just asked a question based on historical development projects, job postings, and a few pieces of media, and a few current events and the RPG line-up for the 360. I don't want to deprive one person of one game ever, and if this is a sore subject for some reason, I am sorry, whatever the cause. I could see how this could be an issue on a sony forum or whatever, but cripes!

In ATLUS USA, last week, job postings went up for a MMO Producer and an EDI specialist. Is Luminous Arc 2 gonna be pay to play, or something?

Lemme guess, the ATLUS USA staffed MMO (developed by Atarasu?) is going to just opt out of their license to publish on Microsoft's console, cause they are allergic to money?

[Kakizaki]

^Atlus already does have an MMO....for the PC. SMT Imagine. Ever think of that?




I don't know what NINE was and wasn't.

Then don't use it as some sort of evidence to support your agrument.

SMT NINE was never intended for America, and cancelled for networking issues (according to Atarasu).

Got news for you. I doubt many of the SMT titles that did make it to the U.S. were designed with the intention that they may make it to the U.S. That is irrelevant.

[Sayckeone]

Get over it
Get over what? There's nothing to get over.

[raum215]

^Atlus already does have an MMO....for the PC. SMT Imagine. Ever think of that?

OF COURSE I DID!!!

I don't know what NINE was and wasn't.

Then don't use it as some sort of evidence to support your agrument.

The evidence was that is was a previous attempt to bring the SMT franchise to the Japanese XBOX LIVE, that was cancelled because of networking issues (according the the release).

I don't know what kind of buzz there was, if it showed promise, or lack therof. That's what I was saying.

And now that a major Final Fantasy Title is announced in North America along with other RPGS of note, I think maybe Atarasu might want to make a second attempt with more appeal and larger install base, and go for bigger money by making it available in the US (through Ps3 and 360?). The US dollar is driving the gaming market alot more. So is the Euro. Developers everywhere are admitting it and have been for years. Even Nippon Ichi is "seriously looking" at 360 development, according to an article in gamasutra:

Gamasutra: Will Nippon Ichi be making games for next gen?

(Jack) Niida: We are seriously thinking of working to Xbox 360 and also Revolution.

That was 3 years ago, you think they just decided, nah...

Got news for you. I doubt many of the SMT titles that did make it to the U.S. were designed with the intention that they may make it to the U.S. That is irrelevant.

Most of the SMT games that made it here were released here because it was decided they would probably make it here to grow the ancillary American market.

Not anymore. look at economics. Gaming money is moving stateside. ESPECIALLY with EDC and MMO's.

Microsoft in 2 consoles has built a contender for Sony who enjoys DECADES of Japanese loyalty and some Americans. and they did it without Japan. Atarasu, Square, NamCo, and everyone else knows that is undeniable. You may not like it, but you can not turn your back on it.

[Sayckeone]

Stop saying Atarasu. It's ####ing annoying.

[Kakizaki]

The evidence was that is was a previous attempt to bring the SMT franchise to the Japanese XBOX LIVE, that was cancelled because of networking issues (according the the release).


You initially stated that it was a SMT title on an MS system -- implying that it was proof enough that SMT IV could be on the 360.


What does Nippon Ichi have to do with anything? Who the f cares.

Most of the SMT games that made it here were released here because it was decided they would probably make it here to grow the ancillary American market.

Again that has nothing to do with what you initially said. Most of the companies you are mentioning are huge compared to Atlus outside of their home territory of Japan. Atlus JP is a decent sized developer and publisher but its influence in other territories doesn't carry the same clout as all of the companies you mentioned.

[raum215]

Stop saying Atarasu. It's ####ing annoying.

I do not find Japanese annoying. This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Perhaps I should call them アトラス ?

[Kakizaki]

^Their Japanese IP is still Atlus.

This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Not called. Pronounced. When you are speaking Japanese. Which you are not.

[Sayckeone]

Stop saying Atarasu. It's ####ing annoying.

I do not find Japanese annoying. This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Perhaps I should call them アトラス ?
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

!!!111

[raum215]

You initially stated that it was a SMT title on an MS system -- implying that it was proof enough that SMT IV could be on the 360.

What does Nippon Ichi have to do with anything? Who the f cares.

No, I stated a previously planned title a long time ago, and job postings requesting 360 exp plastered with pics of SMT were perhaps related. IF Square-Enix is going multi-console, why not Atlus... who are already looking for people related to the work! ESPECIALLY when the ads went up so soon after the last meeting of the CESA... which Wada Yoichi is the Chairman of!

Wada Yoichi was at Microsoft's E3 presentation. No one elses. His vice chair from Konami was not at Sony after one of the biggest successes of a Konami game EVER. Wada Yoichi has set to charge, and is coming strong to the 360 and I expect a good number of members of CESA to follow suit; including アトラス who is a 27 BILLION dollar company. (CESA is the group that put on Tokyo Game Show, FYI). Or is that too, insignificant?

... Most of the companies you are mentioning are huge compared to Atlus outside of their home territory of Japan. Atlus JP is a decent sized developer and publisher but its influence in other territories doesn't carry the same clout as all of the companies you mentioned.

アトラス is a 27 billion dollar company. That is not "decent sized" that is significant - significant enough to get a call from Microsoft, along with most other members of the CESA, I'm sure. Also, XBOX is focusing on "old-school" roots of gamers and lots of tactical and niche stuff. SMT is perfect for that.

and if you ask wtf does Nippon Ichi have to do with gaming, you lack heart. 35 men with the hearts of titans eeking out a independent studio and suceeding.... that is a real awesome thing. and if they are looking at 360 *seriously* and have been for years... They could easily make it so.

[Sayckeone]

アトラス...
アトラス
I hate you.

[Onion of Mystery]

Back on topic. Stop arguing over pronunciation of the word Atlus.

[Kakizaki]

is a 27 billion dollar company. That is not "decent sized" that is significant - significant enough to get a call from Microsoft, along with most other members of the CESA, I'm sure. Also, XBOX is focusing on "old-school" roots of gamers and lots of tactical and niche stuff. SMT is perfect for that.

And I believe their U.S. subsidiary operates somewhat independently.


アトラス

Cute. Is that the symbol they place on the outside of their Japanese software boxes? Nope. Atlus.

and if you ask wtf does Nippon Ichi have to do with gaming, you lack heart. 35 men with the hearts of titans eeking out a independent studio and suceeding.... that is a real awesome thing. and if they are looking at 360 *seriously* and have been for years... They could easily make it so.

Men and Nippon Ichi have nothing to do with each. Real men at least.

[Sei]

I like it. Don't compromise your sense of ideological purity. You should include the relevant Kanji so that people don't confuse the type of business corporation it is, 株式会社アトラス

I don't think Nis has expressed interest on the 360 at this time, nor I see the point of hating on them. I think they are an awesome company.

[DamnedToBeFree]

Stop saying Atarasu. It's ####ing annoying.

I do not find Japanese annoying. This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Perhaps I should call them アトラス ?

LOL!



And yes, I realize I've been saying "lol" a lot today.

[raum215]

^Their Japanese IP is still Atlus.

This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Not called. Pronounced. When you are speaking Japanese. Which you are not.

1. You are correct, "pronounced" is the better word if I were speaking, which I am not. "Enunciated" is even better. I deferred to "called", because of the fact I communicate with a ex-pat friend in tokyo and HE "calls" them that, and says that is what all the people "call" them. He helps me with my Nihongo, and to make it more valid and helps me clarify the proper tone and such. I have other friends in Japan who also use Atarasu instead of the full formal name, and the katakana I posted here from their corporate front page do support the romaji I posted here.

(I will, in the sake of civility, not show in the dictionary of common usage why this is a suitable use of the word call, and demonstrate that usage in the etymology of the word. Suffice to say, I am fairly well capable of exercising my vernacular with pertinence.)

2. As for the reason I no longer use ATLUS, I posted a question in three different instances and the first answers I got were from people who informed me that "ATLUS" does not develop games, and seemed to feel the need to clarify that ALTUS USA and ATLUS Japan are different entitites; two things of which I am aware.

[DamnedToBeFree]

2. As for the reason I no longer use ATLUS, I posted a question in three different instances and the first answers I got were from people who informed me that "ATLUS" does not develop games, and seemed to feel the need to clarify that ALTUS USA and ATLUS Japan are different entitites; two things of which I am aware.

Then say Atlus Japan or Atlus JP.

[Kakizaki]

I would continue this, but Onion asked us to stop long before your reply.

[kufufu]

^Their Japanese IP is still Atlus.

This is what Atlus is called in japan.

Not called. Pronounced. When you are speaking Japanese. Which you are not.

1. You are correct, "pronounced" is the better word if I were speaking, which I am not. "Enunciated" is even better. I deferred to "called", because of the fact I communicate with a ex-pat friend in tokyo and HE "calls" them that, and says that is what all the people "call" them. He helps me with my Nihongo, and to make it more valid and helps me clarify the proper tone and such. I have other friends in Japan who also use Atarasu instead of the full formal name, and the katakana I posted here from their corporate front page do support the romaji I posted here.

(I will, in the sake of civility, not show in the dictionary of common usage why this is a suitable use of the word call, and demonstrate that usage in the etymology of the word. Suffice to say, I am fairly well capable of exercising my vernacular with pertinence.)

2. As for the reason I no longer use ATLUS, I posted a question in three different instances and the first answers I got were from people who informed me that "ATLUS" does not develop games, and seemed to feel the need to clarify that ALTUS USA and ATLUS Japan are different entitites; two things of which I am aware.

Cool story. Since I'm anal about romaji, it's suppose to be "Atorasu" but whatevs.

Anyway, about SMTIV..

FORESTS? Really? ..EH.

I'm not sure how I feel about that but at least it's something different. :?

[raum215]

kufufu, Correct you are... about that thing.. thx!~

Anyway, about SMTIV..

FORESTS? Really? ..EH.

I'm not sure how I feel about that but at least it's something different. :?

Not different at all. No reason to think anyone survived without vegetation. Massive vegetation. just an expanded idea with more or different content and depth. This seems to be a paradise theme. Paradise and Rites of Passage. The Rites of the Powers... who come to earth and fight the demons and are corrupted in the process... see my post on the Order of the Powers in the Dept H thread on Knights in the Nightmare. That is VERY common to Qabala and Sufi alike. I think this is a great part of the continuing controversial presentation of spiritual metaphors of the series. Jannah is a great word use as well! (if that is real, which I hope it is.)

(also, on a technical note, would be conducive to player hubs which load into missions in the city.)

[Raidou11]

Just wondering..

How did Shin Megami Tensei 360 end up in the direction of how to pronounce "Atorasu"? :lol:

[Sayckeone]

Not different at all.
Right, because SMT1-3 were just FULL of vegetation.

[Kroni]

Oh damn, I'll have to wait and see how this turns out. I wouldn't mind the forest area as long as the game has a good atmosphere and such, though I'd prefer if the game primarily took place in the ruined city.

[Chronis]

Wait, where did this forest info even come from!? I wasn't paying attention because this thread kinda sucks.

[Sei]

^ http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=945498&topic=44264785

And yeah, this thread does suck.

[Futomimi]

GameFAQs. Apparently there's a spread about it in a Japanese magazine(?) I haven't read the entire thread to see if the magazine article has been confirmed or not.

[DamageCity]

lock this thread.

[LadyRayna]

GameFAQs. Apparently there's a spread about it in a Japanese magazine(?) I haven't read the entire thread to see if the magazine article has been confirmed or not.

Nope, it hasn't been confirmed yet.

[Chronis]

I read the thread and I call bull####. it doesn't help that there seems to be no info anywhere else matching this.

[massaker]

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5571/01di0.png

Can anyone read what that says?

[Futomimi]

The title says "Shin Megami Tensei," but still unsure if the picture is actually legit.

[massaker]

:shock:

SMT forest does sound wicked cool.

[Tatsuki]

This thread has gone south, but I still want to toss a few things...

I don't think Nis has expressed interest on the 360 at this time, nor I see the point of hating on them. I think they are an awesome company.
Nippon Ichi Software (http://www.nippon1.co.jp/news/pdf/2007/20070823_2.pdf) has recently signed on as a licensed Xbox 360 developer. What that means no one knows yet, but you don't pay money to develop on a console if you don't intend to. Especially a small company like them.

And while raum215 is obtuse, he is correct about the Atlus JP job listing (http://jobent.jp/detail.php?id=144). They're recruiting both PS3 and 360 developers, not just one or the other. Whether it'll be for the same game or not, we'll have to wait and see, but they are going to develop for both consoles.

In light of the FXIII 360 announcement, it's not surprising that the other smaller JRPG studios are following suit. No point in leaving out an entire userbase, I guess.

And now everyone can return to sinking this thread further.

[Kakizaki]

The title says "Shin Megami Tensei," but still unsure if the picture is actually legit.

The pic actually reminds me a little of EO.

[raum215]

This was not meant to be the cesspool of the forum. I just asked a valid question that was hardly touched until now. I was just asking what kind of role ATLUS USA would have in a (ATLUS JP developed) SMT title MMO on the 360 in the USA. Sega kinda role, like with PSU. or More directly, in a way I have yet to see. If so, would a SMT title MMO that was crossplatform be supported by Xbox Live on 360, and by Atlus USA on PS3?

Personally I would hope more direct influence because I really like ATLUS.

Sayckeone:
Right, because SMT1-3 were just FULL of vegetation.

from wikipedia (SMT II):

Gimmel
A young man who lives in the forest of Arcadia, and seems to know Aleph from some place. He seems to know a lot about the purpose of Arcadia, the Center and Tokyo Millennium. It is revealed that Gimmel was created by the Center to be the Messiah of the Virtual World, which was designed as a testing ground for the technology of the Thousand Year Kingdom.

Gimmel is named after the third letter in the Hebrew language, Gimmel (ג).

Achad Rosh Achadotho Rosh Ichudo Temurazo Achad. ARARITA!

[Futomimi]

The title says "Shin Megami Tensei," but still unsure if the picture is actually legit.

The pic actually reminds me a little of EO.

Well, I meant the blurry picture as a whole, not the picture in the supposed article. But yeah, I thought of EO too.

[Kakizaki]

I was just asking what kind of role ATLUS USA would have in a (ATLUS JP developed) SMT title MMO on the 360 in the USA

I must have missed where you posed that. It was pretty unclear from the get go.

[raum215]

Nippon Ichi Software (http://www.nippon1.co.jp/news/pdf/2007/20070823_2.pdf) has recently signed on as a licensed Xbox 360 developer. What that means no one knows yet, but you don't pay money to develop on a console if you don't intend to. Especially a small company like them.

EXACTLY! Finally, another person who can see *some* validity to my *hypothetical* points, which I am collecting theoretical data on. Do you think many companies will see Wada as chair of the CESA coming to E3 for Microsoft as a green light to 360 inclusion? I think he told them at the last meeting. Wasn't it odd for his vice chair or someone else for Konami to not be out for Sony after MGS4's reception on PS3?

And while raum215 is obtuse, he is correct about the Atlus JP job listing (http://jobent.jp/detail.php?id=144). They're recruiting both PS3 and 360 developers, not just one or the other. Whether it'll be for the same game or not, we'll have to wait and see, but they are going to develop for both consoles.

I said the listing was for both, and it is a damn given that it will be on the PS3. I just said that it was a fact that the 360 was also on the list of qualifications. I can be obtuse, especially when I left early yesterday, took the day off from work and have been ill all day and since Saturday, sure.

I also pointed out some other ATLUS USA job posting (which I offered conjecture about and might be related and was part of my assumption), about an MMO Game Developer http://www.atlus.com/career.php . Can someone else think of an MMO ATLUS USA might be posed to bring to the USA that would have an international focus and be considered (and I quote) "significant"? That, and the EDI specialist is requested to have skiil with architecture employed by Xbox Live.... Cause I can't think of games they yet published that have that kind of draw except SMT titles. And no one has named another. Might be new IP, cool! Could be Perfect World, but I doubt that is considered on the radar of most US customer base.

In light of the FXIII 360 announcement, it's not surprising that the other smaller JRPG studios are following suit. No point in leaving out an entire userbase, I guess.

And now everyone can return to sinking this thread further.

It's actually come out of the slums a bit, now that people stopped biting their thumbs so much. Funny thing is most of the people here are the ones I actually come here to read posts from. and alot are looking at when to get 360's in the off topic forum.

[Sayckeone]

^Dude, you're acting like SMT4 for 360 is all but confirmed. I'm not going to deny that Atlus is looking into 360 development, and even hiring for it. They could be developing anything for it though.

Also, OK, so there was a forest in SMTII. I didn't get far enough. You win that one.

[cj iwakura]

As to what the text says, you can thank Furu from PA's forums:

According to the paragraph, humanity flees to the countryside during an apocalyptic event and demons take over the cities or something to that effect.

I'm very much getting an EO vibe, which is hardly a bad thing.


And people really need to get over this 'SMT is dead' nonsense. They're making changes to keep the series fresh and unique.

If that's not your thing, stick to the older games and stop knocking their efforts.

[DamageCity]

This was not meant to be the cesspool of the forum. I just asked a valid question that was hardly touched until now.


It wasn't the question that made you sound like an ass, it's the way you asked it, and your silly opinions of the Japanese and their language.

[Sayckeone]

And people really need to get over this 'SMT is dead' nonsense. They're making changes to keep the series fresh and unique.

If that's not your thing, stick to the older games and stop knocking their efforts.
SMT3 was pretty god damn fresh, if you ask me. Aside from DDS, there was absolutely nothing else like it last gen.

[raum215]

^Dude, you're acting like SMT4 for 360 is all but confirmed. I'm not going to deny that Atlus is looking into 360 development, and even hiring for it. They could be developing anything for it though.

They could be developing anything, right!

But they already once planned that an SMT title would be on Xbox in Japan, and who was screaming then? *crickets*

Now, that SMT has a fresh user base, what else could they really be thinking is prime for development? A game they couldn't technically (or prolly financially) work before? I mean no ps2 networking was like PSN, and XBOX LIVE is pretty solid home for a MMO for years. If you know something, please tell me. I am not trying to be cocky. I would love to hear ATLUS has games in the pipeline, even a new series, or something. I am not saying I hope it is 360 exclusive. I hope not. I want solid titles of the SMT type on my PS2, PSP, DS, wii, intellivision, and even my friggin iPod if I can get them!! but for now, I am working on an assumption that this and some other things (pending accuracy, like that SMT IV post) *might* be strong enough to entertain the idea and maybe ask some questions and see what kind of answers people have.

This quickly became "defend what you guess" challenge, where all I can do is give my "official" ATLUS sources, like job postings, and previous attempts to make a xbox game. I am not fortune telling,.. yet. and I am not yet dropping a thing that I can't back up, like that thread about SMT IV. but if it comes up, I might entertain it; through a filter.

Also, OK, so there was a forest in SMTII. I didn't get far enough. You win that one.

So, does ATLUS have your permission to *maybe* put a forest in this one? Might it not be the sign of the end of the SMT's integrity? If so, what does it say about the people who are just criticizing the fact that the entire series doesn't fit their limited expectations and experience of it? I am just saying , be flexible. The most powerful connections in SMT were always tough, but fluid and intuitive, and ultimately a sign barriers were coming down.. they all also required change.

Change is Stability: a Hermetic staple of the SMT legacy.

[cj iwakura]

And people really need to get over this 'SMT is dead' nonsense. They're making changes to keep the series fresh and unique.

If that's not your thing, stick to the older games and stop knocking their efforts.
SMT3 was pretty god damn fresh, if you ask me. Aside from DDS, there was absolutely nothing else like it last gen.

So what's to say SMT4 won't be? People seem quick to judge based on a vague outline and an image of a forest.

[Kakizaki]

So, does ATLUS have your permission to *maybe* put a forest in this one? Might it not be the sign of the end of the SMT's integrity?


:roll:

A forest as a small locale as opposed to what may have a forest as the major setting. There is a difference.

So what's to say SMT4 won't be?

Every title following Nocturne.

[Hitoshura]

forest

Had you actually played the game, and not trying to grasp for straws by randomly looking for SMT FOREST on Wikipedia, you would know that

the SINGLE FOREST in the entire game is in fact, fake, and the actual world of SMT2 is absolutely desolate and post apocalyptic. This does not mean that the ENTIRE GAME TOOK PLACE IN THE SINGLE ####ING FOREST.

Once again, I would like to reiterate: The setting of Shin Megami Tensei II is a DESOLATE WASTELAND. NOT A FOREST. A WASTELAND. Can you understand that? Can you see that a SINGLE FOREST, in a DESOLATE WASTELAND, is quite different from THE SETTING OF THE GAME BEING IN A FOREST?

Once again, try not grasping for straws. You might even be able to come up with a credible argument.

[cj iwakura]

So, does ATLUS have your permission to *maybe* put a forest in this one? Might it not be the sign of the end of the SMT's integrity?


:roll:

A forest as a small locale as opposed to what may have a forest as the major setting. There is a difference.

So what's to say SMT4 won't be?

Every title following Nocturne.

Are you saying Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner 3, and Persona 3 weren't original games?

That's borderline crazy talk.

[Chronis]

You know what I was just thinking about that SMT4 pic? According to the GF thread, the guys supposedly took a picture of a magazine page with his phone, right? Ok, is it realistic to think that pic wouldn't look so perfectly square then? And wouldn't there be some kind of page wave thing?

[raum215]

It wasn't the question that made you sound like an ass, it's the way you asked it, and your silly opinions of the Japanese and their language.

I can be arrogant, granted.

I would love to know, however, what opinions I expressed that were silly. I am being sincere, and would value input. pm me.

As for their language, I am studying, that is all. I do know people in Japan though. I was also there a few times in the 90's and didn't even need to know Japanese, and have an open invitation to go visit from ex-pats and nationals, and a place to crash, if not live indefinitely. My employer also is partnered with a very large Japanese company with an exclusive opportunity - Toshiba. (non industry related)

I rely on people I know in Japan for some pretty accurate info, some I rarely know is true until it is. I usually don't advertise it, after a person did something similar, and it blew back in his face. Some industry related, and some with industry related contacts - but no one really knows the whole picture. I never claimed to.

On Topic: I would be thrilled to see the literal elements of the distinct methods of Vegetable Alchemy at work in the Jannah, and the elements of Mineral Alchemy at work in Millineum Tokyo. Particularly as they relate to the psyche and the genius. Paracelsus, FTW!

[cj iwakura]

The possibility of that image being a shop was already posed elsewhere; I'm just hoping that's not the case.

[Kakizaki]

Are you saying Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner 3, and Persona 3 weren't original games?

I guess when I think of fresh, I think of different and quality at the same time. While those were all decent games in their own right, they didn't hold a candle to the rest of the SMT line.

[Sayckeone]

So, does ATLUS have your permission to *maybe* put a forest in this one? Might it not be the sign of the end of the SMT's integrity?


:roll:

A forest as a small locale as opposed to what may have a forest as the major setting. There is a difference.

So what's to say SMT4 won't be?

Every title following Nocturne.
THANK YOU!

Hito, thanks.

Raum, I take back what I said; you did not win that one. I did.

[cj iwakura]

Are you saying Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner 3, and Persona 3 weren't original games?

I guess when I think of fresh, I think of different and quality at the same time. While those were all decent games in their own right, they didn't hold a candle to the rest of the SMT line.

They're all side story games, also. There's nothing to suggest they still can't make another epic title when it comes to the core series.

[Kakizaki]

^Yes there is. They may be side stories but so were Sould Hackers and EP/IS. Those were all incredible titles within the SMT franchise and fell in line nicely.

[Kakizaki]

It is kind of funny really. EO is more of a throwback to the older SMT titles and it is doing pretty well. In a way it makes me sad because of DS PSP and how similar the titles are outside of the setting.

[Gen Eric Gui]

SMT fans HAET CHANGE.

[Hitoshura]

SMT fans HAET CHANGE.

As I have told you before, and you seem to fail at comprehending, there is a difference between "change" and "completely dumbing the games down to cater to the casuals". Also see: LOSING YOUR ROOTS.

Please Gen. Try to read. Please?

Furthermore, you want to talk about change? Hmm. I don't remember any apparent backlash when Persona went from first person dungeon crawler to third person. Nor do I remember any backlash from Nocturne going from first person to third. Or the removal of guns. Or the removal of the cyberpunk setting. Why you may ask?

Because what made the series SPECIAL and UNIQUE hadn't changed. The style of setting, the style of combat, the difficulty, the DEMON CONVERSATIONS, the CONTRACTS, etc. THOSE STAYED THE SAME. Until DDS1. And then Devil Summoner. And then Persona 3. And then Persona 4. etc.

[Kakizaki]

SMT fans HAET CHANGE.

Aren't you always bitching about trolls?

As I have told you before, and you seem to fail at comprehending, there is a difference between "change" and "completely dumbing the games down to cater to the casuals". Also see: LOSING YOUR ROOTS.

Yeah, I don't understand how this is so difficult to understand. I wish this dude was still around (Avalon)...I don't know, maybe he is with a different username, but back on the EZboard he said a lot of the same stuff. That we were all resistant to change and this or that -- except he did it with a lot more reasoning than Gen.

Anyway, he started playing some of the older SMT titles, namely the port of DS on PSP and he could finally understand why we were upset.

[Kakizaki]

SMT fans HAET CHANGE.

As I have told you before, and you seem to fail at comprehending, there is a difference between "change" and "completely dumbing the games down to cater to the casuals". Also see: LOSING YOUR ROOTS.

Please Gen. Try to read. Please?

Furthermore, you want to talk about change? Hmm. I don't remember any apparent backlash when Persona went from first person dungeon crawler to third person. Nor do I remember any backlash from Nocturne going from first person to third. Or the removal of guns. Or the removal of the cyberpunk setting. Why you may ask?

Because what made the series SPECIAL and UNIQUE hadn't changed. The style of setting, the style of combat, the difficulty, the DEMON CONVERSATIONS, the CONTRACTS, etc. THOSE STAYED THE SAME. Until DDS1. And then Devil Summoner. And then Persona 3. And then Persona 4. etc.

Wait Hito, according to Gen, you can't count any titles before Nocturne. That is against the rules.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I know exactly what you're saying. Thing is, I haven't noticed any "lost roots" in SMT. I just see a bunch of whining about a game series not staying the same all the time.

I like seeing radically different takes on themes, it's what makes me play games in the first place. If every SMT game was exactly like SMT1, aka "held to it's roots", I'd probably hate the series. I enjoyed Persona 3, it was a fresh take on the SMT theme. I enjoyed DDS because it was, again, a fresh take on the SMT theme.

If every game after Nocturne had just been a slightly tweaked Nocturne, I'd have quit playing the series a long time ago. That very same thing is why I stopped buying Nippon Ichi games a long time ago.

[Hitoshura]

Please Gen. Try to read. Please?

[raum215]

Had you actually played the game, and not trying to grasp for straws by randomly looking for SMT FOREST on Wikipedia, you would know that

the SINGLE FOREST in the entire game is in fact, fake, and the actual world of SMT2 is absolutely desolate and post apocalyptic. This does not mean that the ENTIRE GAME TOOK PLACE IN THE SINGLE ####ING FOREST.

WOW, someone had too much asshole in their coffee today.

I never said I played it, never said a GODDAMN thing, but indicated that PER WIKIPEDIA apparently ONE DAMN CHARACTER was from a FOREST. I never said you saw it. I never said you entered it. JUST reinforced the fact I justified the assumption there was vegetation in the world of SMT at least for oxygen and atmosphere, and researched a claim by someone who seemed to think that it was unprecedented, as if there were no vegetation, and claimed this was a total disaster and end to the series, because it has trees, which were even in the opening scene of Nocturne.

Evidentally, it was big enough for it to have a Proper Name, and to have people who considered it a land of origin. it might have been over the horizon of your console's peek into the world, but it was there in the setting, just the same. As for fake, hell the whole game is fake. Everything is a illusion and matter don't matter are core ideas of transcendence. Wouldn't suprise me if the Jannah turn out to be illusory, or the city a construct of Gnostic Virtuality.

Once again, I would like to reiterate: The setting of Shin Megami Tensei II is a DESOLATE WASTELAND. NOT A FOREST. A WASTELAND. Can you understand that? Can you see that a SINGLE FOREST, in a DESOLATE WASTELAND, is quite different from THE SETTING OF THE GAME BEING IN A FOREST?

I did not SAY a damn thing about the forest in SMT, I linked to someone who's ORIGIN is there... and there is a bit of forestry in other SMT titles, like Devil Summoner, and the upcoming Persona 4 and trees in Nocturne. Oh wait those don't count, huh?

until Cozy comes out and says "SMT was devoid of vegetation until now", there has always been vegetation in the IDEA of that world. But in a void full of nothing but the undulations of the demi-urge, that would be kind of rendundant, huh?

Arcadia sound like the name of a little forest to you? Sounds to me like a place of significance. Maybe the illusion has grown, or spawned, hell anything is possible. As I can read the SMT IV thread on that other site (that I did not post because I have yet to have verified...), it looks like the Forest-like Jannah is/are a place of refuge, and the name fits.

Once again, try not grasping for straws. You might even be able to come up with a credible argument.

i am not grasping for straws. you just keep attacking things i never said.

[Kakizaki]

If every game after Nocturne had just been a slightly tweaked Nocturne, I'd have quit playing the series a long time ago.

With a statement like this, you obviously don't get it. No one is saying every title had to be like Nocturne.

Your lack of understanding regarding the series is astounding.

[cj iwakura]

SMT fans HAET CHANGE.

As I have told you before, and you seem to fail at comprehending, there is a difference between "change" and "completely dumbing the games down to cater to the casuals". Also see: LOSING YOUR ROOTS.

Please Gen. Try to read. Please?

Furthermore, you want to talk about change? Hmm. I don't remember any apparent backlash when Persona went from first person dungeon crawler to third person. Nor do I remember any backlash from Nocturne going from first person to third. Or the removal of guns. Or the removal of the cyberpunk setting. Why you may ask?

Because what made the series SPECIAL and UNIQUE hadn't changed. The style of setting, the style of combat, the difficulty, the DEMON CONVERSATIONS, the CONTRACTS, etc. THOSE STAYED THE SAME. Until DDS1. And then Devil Summoner. And then Persona 3. And then Persona 4. etc.

Devil Summoner still has contracts and demon conversation.

It's not as crucial in a gameplay sense, but the foundation's still there, as it is in P3.

I like the point that Atlus USA made in the SMT panel about contracts living on through Social Links; instead of making contracts with demons, you're making them with people.

Again, I still see nothing to suggest that the core series won't bring back the traditional gameplay that we're all used to.

They're just adjusting the setting, and I see nothing bad about that.


Bottom line: there's nothing to suggest that SMT4 has changed anything.


And dumbing down the series? Digital Devil Saga is a lot of things, but it is not a casual game.

The difficulty in that game is nightmarish at times.

[unknown]

I'd like a mix and match of things >_>

[Gen Eric Gui]

Wait Hito, according to Gen, you can't count any titles before Nocturne. That is against the rules.

lulz, I love it when people twist words to mean whatever they want to. Yes, because I based my opinion in an another argument on the games I had actually played in a series as opposed to those that I had not, that totally has bearing on this argument.

lulz.

And I stopped trying to reason with you all a long time ago. In fact, I pretty much knew coming in that reasoning with you was pointless, because you all are almost as stubborn as I am.



Edit: On another note, I agree with everything cj is saying.

[Hitoshura]

WOW, someone had too much asshole in their coffee today.

Oh boy, another kid who isn't used to people being blunt on the internet.

I never said I played it, never said a GODDAMN thing, but indicated that PER WIKIPEDIA apparently ONE DAMN CHARACTER was from a FOREST. I never said you saw it. I never said you entered it. JUST reinforced the fact I justified the assumption there was vegetation in the world of SMT at least for oxygen and atmosphere, and researched a claim by someone who seemed to think that it was unprecedented, as if there were no vegetation, and claimed this was a total disaster and end to the series, because it has trees, which were even in the opening scene of Nocturne.



Um, no. The point was that you indirectly made the claim that SMT I, II, and III were full of vegetation, because IV was "not different at all." Sayck pointed out that SMT games have NOT been full of vegetation, and then you found ONE forest, and acted like your claim was somehow true, not actually knowing anything about that forest nor the world of SMT II. I explained that one forest does not suddenly make the series FULL OF VEGETATION, and here we are. And I would advice you, like Gen, to actually read the posts. Sayck did not say "there is no vegetation in SMT". Please, go back and read his post.

Evidentally, it was big enough for it to have a Proper Name,

Yes, because it has importance to the plot. How much importance to the gameplay? Pretty much none. You go there once, and that's pretty much it. Actually, I'm not even sure if you HAVE to go there or not. IIRC you don't really find out anything useful there, and I think it is only SUGGESTED that you go there. Therefore, once again, it was not an integral point to the setting of the game. Had you actually played the game, instead of trying to pull facts out of thin air, you would know this. I would further suggest that a noob (HOLY #### I INSULTED YOU, RUN AWAY) who does not know of Shin Megami Tensei's roots should refrain from pretending he is an expert on knowing what makes Shin Megami Tensei... well, Shin Megami Tensei.

i am not grasping for straws. you just keep attacking things i never said.

kufufu, Correct you are... about that thing.. thx!~

Anyway, about SMTIV..

FORESTS? Really? ..EH.

I'm not sure how I feel about that but at least it's something different. :?

Not different at all.

[cj iwakura]

So why is a forest being in SMT the end of the world again?

[raum215]

I like the point that Atlus USA made in the SMT panel about contracts living on through Social Links; instead of making contracts with demons, you're making them with people.


As I think about it, I agree with this..., but rather, really I would say you make them THROUGH people. They are projecting toward you in the interaction, and you are a sounding board for their ruach. It ultimately reconciles something and reinforces something else. This, along with the Tarot, is HEAVILY part of the work of Carl Jung, and his idea of "psychological projection of Archetype." They project the Archetype on you, and you can now access that core component with more potency.

[Kakizaki]

I like the point that Atlus USA made in the SMT panel about contracts living on through Social Links; instead of making contracts with demons, you're making them with people.

I know Nich has also stated he felt this way but I have to strongly disagree. If you take the demons out of negotiating, it isn't negotiating with demons anymore is it? Part of the appeal was the quirky responses you would get and the totally random stuff that would happen.

There are other problems I have with that statement as well.


That is like saying Disgaea is the new Front Mission. It is a turn based rpg, but without mecha.


Devil Summoner still has contracts and demon conversation.

Capturing demons with a pokeball by jamming on the buttons isn't the same.

Yes, because I based my opinion in an another argument on the games I had actually played in a series as opposed to those that I had not, that totally has bearing on this argument.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I could go further into this as well.

Bottom line: there's nothing to suggest that SMT4 has changed anything.

Except for the fact that every title following Nocturne has been steadily dropping staples of the franchise. The spin offs of the past did not do this.

[Futomimi]

OMG! Kakizaki, pokeballs weren't around in 1915. TROLL!

[Gen Eric Gui]

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I could go further into this as well.

Yeah, if you're psychic. I'm not, though.

[Hitoshura]

Devil Summoner still has contracts and demon conversation.

I don't mean "the demons say things" type of conversation, but rather, the demon negotiations, which are nonexistent in DDS, DS, and P3.


And dumbing down the series? Digital Devil Saga is a lot of things, but it is not a casual game.

The difficulty in that game is nightmarish at times.

In comparison to Nocturne, DDS really is casual. DDS is harder than a standard RPG, and yes a couple of bosses are pretty damn hard, however, it lacks the real... micromanagement feel of SMT. There is no making sure you have a variety of demons, or planning out your character builds. When everyone can learn any skill and can change around their skills at will, it lessens the careful planning in skill choices, and becomes dumbed down to a simple matter of "can't beat that boss? Oh, just switch out your mantras and grind some more." instead of "can't beat that boss? Well, you COULD get rid of this skill that would help out but... do you really want to do that? It might be handy later", etc. Sorry if that's a bad explanation but hopefully you get the gist of what I'm saying. I guess to slightly reiterate, SMT is a lot like, well, EO, in that you need to delegate your party members to specific roles, whereas in DDS, there is no need for that, just slap on whatever skill the boss is weak to and go to town.

[Kakizaki]

How is understanding background info that is readily available to everyone over the internet before you make absolute statements being psychic?

There is info on nearly the entire SMT franchise spread out everywhere - and in English.

You are going the wrong way.

[Sayckeone]

I like the point that Atlus USA made in the SMT panel about contracts living on through Social Links; instead of making contracts with demons, you're making them with people.
And I think that's complete bull####. Negotiating with demons is not the same as a watered down dating sim.

So why is a forest being in SMT the end of the world again?
Because forests in wastelands are out of place?

[cj iwakura]

DDS is still a strategic game, it just requires a different kind.

As opposed to praying you have a certain demon and/or skill handy, you have to plan out which skills you want to take along, and especially how you use them in battle.


Having every skill in the game won't save you against the Demi-Fiend(or even the final bosses, to an extent) if you don't know what you're doing.


And I do miss demon conversation and negotiations, but the newer games in the series still have plenty of content without them, so I can live without it for the time being.

[Sei]

I agree with everything Hito is saying. He knows what he is talking about.

Nobody can be expected to have played all the games and read all accompanying material for the franchise.

However, people that aren't really knowledgeable shouldn't act as experts.

I enjoyed Persona 3 and FES. However it has undoubtedly been dumbed down from Nocturne and DDS. P4 I hope will reverse it, but pre Fes's hard mode I felt asleep playing it.

It is not a bad game, but it is completely different from what a game in that franchise is supossed to be, so much so that the Persona part almost feels tacked on. This should be evident to anyone that has played the previous games.

Nothing wrong with liking it, again, I don't think it's a bad game on its own merit. But it really isn't representative of the franchise.

As for SMT on 360. I'd be sad.

[DamnedToBeFree]

In comparison to Nocturne, DDS really is casual. DDS is harder than a standard RPG, and yes a couple of bosses are pretty damn hard, however, it lacks the real... micromanagement feel of SMT. There is no making sure you have a variety of demons, or planning out your character builds. When everyone can learn any skill and can change around their skills at will, it lessens the careful planning in skill choices, and becomes dumbed down to a simple matter of "can't beat that boss? Oh, just switch out your mantras and grind some more." instead of "can't beat that boss? Well, you COULD get rid of this skill that would help out but... do you really want to do that? It might be handy later", etc. Sorry if that's a bad explanation but hopefully you get the gist of what I'm saying. I guess to slightly reiterate, SMT is a lot like, well, EO, in that you need to delegate your party members to specific roles, whereas in DDS, there is no need for that, just slap on whatever skill the boss is weak to and go to town.


I know what you mean. I actually wish I had played DDS before playing Nocturne. DDS seems kinda...underwhelming when compared to Nocturne.

[cj iwakura]

I personally found DDS much more difficult than Nocturne.

Nocturne has dozens of possibilities for dealing with a boss. Take the right demons and/or a Main skillset, and you'll tear apart almost anything without much trouble.


Even with every character's mantra maxed out, some DDS bosses can still give you a fight for your life.

[Kakizaki]

Having every skill in the game won't save you against the Demi-Fiend(or even the final bosses, to an extent) if you don't know what you're doing.

That is the most extreme example.

As opposed to praying you have a certain demon and/or skill handy, you have to plan out which skills you want to take along, and especially how you use them in battle.

The older SMTs and Nocturne compensated for this by allowing you a large stable of demons. It wasn't luck or praying. It was planning.

[Gen Eric Gui]

How is understanding background info that is readily available to everyone over the internet before you make absolute statements being psychic?

There is info on nearly the entire SMT franchise spread out everywhere - and in English.

You are going the wrong way.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to spend hours and hours pouring over information that I'm frankly not that interested in just to win an internet argument. Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes, but my ego is more than strong enough to take the hit.

[DamnedToBeFree]

How is understanding background info that is readily available to everyone over the internet before you make absolute statements being psychic?

There is info on nearly the entire SMT franchise spread out everywhere - and in English.

You are going the wrong way.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to spend hours and hours pouring over information that I'm frankly not that interested in just to win an internet argument. Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes, but my ego is more than strong enough to take the hit.

Then why bother arguing at all?

[Gen Eric Gui]

Because arguing is fun and it's often a good way to learn new things, or to teach others!

[DamnedToBeFree]

:|

[Voodoo]

Even with every character's mantra maxed out, some DDS bosses can still give you a fight for your life. With every mantra mastered there is only maybe 2 bosses that are a problem and both of those are optional. max every mantra and your basically invincible.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I actually have to agree with that point. Didn't you get a skill in DDS1 that cut all damage you received by like 90%?

[Voodoo]

With 4 skills you could make yourself immune to everything but almighty.

[cj iwakura]

I stand corrected.


Also, notice the fifth kanji in the SMT IV image.

Any speculation on what that could mean?

[Kakizaki]

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to spend hours and hours pouring over information that I'm frankly not that interested in just to win an internet argument. Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes, but my ego is more than strong enough to take the hit.

So you are going to "teach" people by being wrong? Wow.....

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole. Hours? Pretty difficult to google Shin Megami Tensei huh? Wow...........

[Sei]

Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes

[Kakizaki]

What is sad is that his reasoning is similar to that of my 11 year old nephew. I honestly hope he is not serious with some of these statements and realizes how silly and or sad they seem.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to spend hours and hours pouring over information that I'm frankly not that interested in just to win an internet argument. Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes, but my ego is more than strong enough to take the hit.

So you are going to "teach" people by being wrong? Wow.....

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole. Hours? Pretty difficult to google Shin Megami Tensei huh? Wow...........

Because there totally isn't a give and take in arguments. Nope, none at all. It's just all give. All the time.

The time it takes to google something != the time it takes to read it all.

[Sei]

I honestly wonder sometimes.

I would think that reading would take less time than exchanging posts, sometimes with no base, and looking like an idiot.

Especially on a non instant communication method like a message board. Where you have to wait for someone to post back, and keep refreshing to even know that they did.

Seems like there would be better ways to learn whatever one wanted.

[Hitoshura]

It takes maybe an hour to read the article on hg101. And it's a very informative read, and should be of interest considering that you seem to strongly like a game in the series. Usually, when people like something and they know that something else came before it, they do research because it interests them. Actually, that's pretty much all the time.

What kind of gamer ARE you, Gen?

ooh sei, nice

[Voodoo]

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to spend hours and hours pouring over information that I'm frankly not that interested in just to win an internet argument. Yeah, that tends to mean that I lose arguments sometimes, but my ego is more than strong enough to take the hit.

So you are going to "teach" people by being wrong? Wow.....

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole. Hours? Pretty difficult to google Shin Megami Tensei huh? Wow...........

Because there totally isn't a give and take in arguments. Nope, none at all. It's just all give. All the time.

The time it takes to google something != the time it takes to read it all.
Do you enjoy being embarrassed on a daily basis?

[DamnedToBeFree]

That's pretty bad.

[Sayckeone]

Also, notice the fifth kanji in the SMT IV image.

Any speculation on what that could mean?
What fifth kanji? If you mean the very first one, that would probably be Shin. That entire logo is the same one that has been used in the other SMT titles. Remove that first one and you ave the logo for Megami Tensei.

Something I just realized. For each of the first three SMT titles, the logos have been red. The one shown in the pic is green...

[Kakizaki]

It takes maybe an hour to read the article on hg101. And it's a very informative read, and should be of interest considering that you seem to strongly like a game in the series. Usually, when people like something and they know that something else came before it, they do research because it interests them. Actually, that's pretty much all the time.

What kind of gamer ARE you, Gen?

ooh sei, nice

This is especially poignant advice considering you are ripping on us in regards to things that you admittedly know little of Gen. I guess that would make you a troll?

Anyway, I honestly would consider zipping my lip if I were you Gen. You are looking worse and worse. Save some face.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I honestly wonder sometimes.

I would think that reading would take less time than exchanging posts, sometimes with no base, and looking like an idiot.

Especially on a non instant communication method like a message board. Where you have to wait for someone to post back, and keep refreshing to even know that they did.

Seems like there would be better ways to learn whatever one wanted.

You see, there are people who learn things in different ways! I'm not a visual learner, I don't learn things by simply reading them. I have to experience them, and the best way to do that is through communication, and in this instance that means talking on message boards.

I forget a lot of the things that I read, but I remember most of what I talk/type about.

I actually can't take college classes online, I don't learn anything. I have to sit in the classroom and process all the information personally.



And to answer your question, Hito, I'm the kind of gamer that likes to talk about games that I like, and play the games that I like. Not so much sit and read some essay about them.

[Kakizaki]

And to answer your question, Hito, I'm the kind of gamer that likes to talk about games that I like, and play the games that I like. Not so much sit and read some essay about them.

Add to that "talk about stuff I have no clue about and attempt to call out others on it."

[Kakizaki]

I have a question Gen. Didn't you claim to work on the DJ P3 guide?

[Voodoo]

You see, there are people who learn things in different ways! I'm not a visual learner, I don't learn things by simply reading them. I have to experience them, and the best way to do that is through communication, and in this instance that means talking on message boards.

So you don't consider reading posts as reading?

[Kakizaki]

^That has been my issue with what he is saying. It makes little rational sense. It is like listening to a little kid justify his or her actions no matter how wrong they are.

[raum215]

Oh boy, another kid who isn't used to people being blunt on the internet.

hardly the case... in either respect. but I don't figure ATLUS made this forum for people to be rude to each other.

Um, no. The point was that you indirectly made the claim that SMT I, II, and III were full of vegetation, because IV was "not different at all."

to which, I take you are referring to :



Anyway, about SMTIV..

FORESTS? Really? ..EH.

I'm not sure how I feel about that but at least it's something different. :?

Not different at all.[/quote]

Yup, when I said that that was EXACTLY what I meant! He said it seems different, and I said that is not different at all. BEING DIFFERENT IS NOT DIFFERENT. goads, but stop being so daft! or if you think I might be thinking lush forests are standard to the game, ASK ME. My reasoning for them is a need for biological LIFE and when humans flee, plants prevail. This was not related to some ideal in the SMT world so far. It was related to a creative process that creates a world with life but no plants. Not liable to happen. So far every assumption you have had about what I was implying is wrong and presumptive on your part. Usually just presumptive enough for you to come back and correct me.. and to share a valid tidbit.

Sayck pointed out that SMT games have NOT been full of vegetation, and then you found ONE forest, and acted like your claim was somehow true, not actually knowing anything about that forest nor the world of SMT II.

I didn't act like my statement was true. I said "be flexible" and stop thinking in some preconcieved filter. I am not. Hell, post the whole storyline of SMT II. I'm game! I looked to see if there was some lack of reason that a tree would exist in SMT. First I saw Trees in Nocturne, and then looked in SMT II, and saw "forest." not hard, and a service.

The whole damn series requires that flexibility, of what I have played. So did every old RPG I every played, including Persona, Wizardry, and every other RPG.

I explained that one forest does not suddenly make the series FULL OF VEGETATION, and here we are. And I would advice you, like Gen, to actually read the posts. Sayck did not say "there is no vegetation in SMT". Please, go back and read his post.

oh crap are we gonna have to go into the etymology of the word vegetation now? I didn't post a wiki link to "vegetation" - I posted one to a "forest", a forest lush enough to have a name, and inhabitants. I didn't even say it was the same one or argue that there wasn't some kind of twist about the forest. I just think when a person is looking at a world with refugees... erm, chances are there will be some place for them to cultivate, and other areas overgrown.

In the illusion of our world, we have the illusions of plants to support the illusion that is the Wheel of the Law: TAROT.

Regardless, there is a Forest.

Yes, because it has importance to the plot. How much importance to the gameplay? Pretty much none. You go there once, and that's pretty much it. Actually, I'm not even sure if you HAVE to go there or not. IIRC you don't really find out anything useful there, and I think it is only SUGGESTED that you go there.

I could well imagine what a forest in SMT II would look like. I don't guess maybe the fact that maybe some of the graphics they wanted to make to show the illusion of life were maybe impossible now {edit: "then"}.

Therefore, once again, it was not an integral point to the setting of the game. Had you actually played the game, instead of trying to pull facts out of thin air, you would know this. I would further suggest that a noob (HOLY #### I INSULTED YOU, RUN AWAY) who does not know of Shin Megami Tensei's roots should refrain from pretending he is an expert on knowing what makes Shin Megami Tensei... well, Shin Megami Tensei.

I guaran-####ing-tee you I have read more books that inspired the SMT creators and are required reading than you have or could, and you will be hard pressed to find someone else who could explain WHY Arcadia is an illusion and guessed it based on the name of Gimmel, and why it is that Gimmel should be from there, much less why Hawk is Aleph, and how Daleth and Aleph come into conflict... and why ----- is the sacrifice required, and what that sacrifice is for. Hint, Dominus Liminus 7=4.

Perdo Libertas. anything yet?

Go read Agrippa and get back to me. Or just some Crowley.

and I have never even seen the game in English. Furthermore, I challenge you to recite every name on the sigil by the operating table on SMT 3 Nocturne. I could and have a recording of me doing so in front of a lecture group, and before I even saw the game. Let me know if you want part of the lecture I gave on it, or the appended discourse. I am not joking. Liber Secundus by John Dee.

You people are attracted to the husk of the game. I am not just interested in Games, but in the core concepts behind most of the things that prevail in the game; the esoteric things that give your digital monsters a hermetic integrity. The core of it is my core, the Great Work.

I think you need to study the philosophy that drives it, and see what happens to those who cling to the husk of something that is fuel for a Greater Fire. You people fit to call people "newbz" all want: ... but the inconsistencies make it hard to stay in your comfort zone, which is as insubstantial as the shell of any egg of any phoenix. Which is why everytime the series adapts, you cry and bicker and find away things were always better when.

I could give a damn if there were minigames to destroy every tree in the game before you leave the planet and fly off in the other games. Hell, maybe the planet you landed on is where it happens, and that planet HAS forests. I am not really sure.

To me these games are simply great, and they echo the poetry in my soul engendered by decades of Hermetic study and practice. and they use the same language known to few, and cherished by fewer.

We shall see who the Neophyte is.

sorry, I need translation:
"I'll show you NEWBz XOMG fireball! Forest FTW!!"

Zilodarp
torzu gohul!

[SickleCellAnemia]

Holy ####.

[DamnedToBeFree]

It's Mouchette-Lite! :shock:


Quote got messed up. Edited it out.

[Kakizaki]

I guaran-####ing-tee you I have read more books that inspired the SMT creators and are required reading than you have or could, and you will be hard pressed to find someone else who could explain WHY Arcadia is an illusion and guessed it based on the name of Gimmel, and why it is that Gimmel should be from there, much less why Hawk is Aleph, and how Daleth and Aleph come into conflict... and why ----- is the sacrifice required, and what that sacrifice is for.

While that is impressive, it still doesn't make up for experiencing the games first hand. There is a lot of contextual stuff you are missing. That is why I don't understand why you get upset and claim to never have played the games when someone points this out -- you shouldn't use the info as evidence to support your theory if you don't understand it in the framework of the games. That is a pretty reasonable expectation.

[Voodoo]

I guaran-####ing-tee you I have read more books that inspired the SMT creators and are required reading than you have or could, and you will be hard pressed to find someone else who could explain WHY Arcadia is an illusion and guessed it based on the name of Gimmel, and why it is that Gimmel should be from there, much less why Hawk is Aleph, and how Daleth and Aleph come into conflict... and why ----- is the sacrifice required, and what that sacrifice is for. Hint, Dominus Liminus 7=4.
Seeing as you know none of us personally would you care to explain how you can make that guarantee?

[raum215]

While that is impressive, it still doesn't make up for experiencing the games first hand. There is a lot of contextual stuff you are missing. That is why I don't understand why you get upset and claim to never have played the games when someone points this out -- you shouldn't use the info as evidence to support your theory if you don't understand it in the framework of the games. That is a pretty reasonable expectation.

OH, you think I am upset? No way, I'd just left by now. I would be upset if people were ramping up at me that had nothing, either experience or conjecture, to offer. So far, all the people who have been thwacking this dead horse with me are all sharing valid opinions.

(by the info, you mean the wiki forest thing?) I googled it and pasted it, and waited for a reaction... and then posted try to be a bit more flexible... that is all. Personally, they could make it on a topless beach for vegans and I would be more interested in if they are finally going to represent the entire list of the Demons of the Theurgia Goetia, and if I could make contact and not be forced to combat them. Could I redeem them? Or if I could align myself with a syncretic pantheon of my own, and establish a hierarchy within it.

With wiki, I made an attempt to qualify a statement, and quoted my source. I never claimed to have some previous exposure to the games, or lack of respect for them. i didn't even say it was true. i posted it to SEE what people would say. Hito's reply was awesome, if a bit bitey.

As for Arcadia, and Gimmel... I suspected that there was a twist to it when I saw it... that I would expect of any SMT story element (even in the games I didn't play)

Arcadia is the mythological birthplace of Zeus and Hermes, and the illusion painted for Faust by Mephisto, it is part of a memento mori, an Old Latin saying that is a reminder that Death is everywhere, all else is illusion to make that fact more comfortable. That same phrase, in a different form is the subject of Conspiracy theories, and rumored to be a code, or something. Ironically, I don't much care for the "conspiracy theory" approach to much of the same subject matter I study.

[Kakizaki]

I never claimed to have some previous exposure to the games, or lack of respect for them. i didn't even say it was true. i posted it to SEE what people would say. Hito's reply was awesome, if a bit bitey.

But you never claimed not to either until well after some of your previous statements. While it may be unintentional, it is slightly misleading. When you make a claim and then post a source, people assume you are just doing so to verify your own experience.

WOW, someone had too much asshole in their coffee today.

I never said I played it, never said a GODDAMN thing,

Comments like these kind of make people think you are getting upset.

[raum215]

It's Mouchette-Lite! :shock:


Quote got messed up. Edited it out.

This, I do not understand... what is a mouchette?

[DamnedToBeFree]

It's Mouchette-Lite! :shock:


Quote got messed up. Edited it out.

This, I do not understand... what is a mouchette?

Explore the "Off-Topic" section. Then you'll understand.

[Hitoshura]

So hang on. Because you know the source material, you somehow know how the games feel without having actually played them? I believe you are still completely missing the point. You seem to be reiterating some imaginary point that someone made that there wasn't a single tree in the SMT games, when in fact nobody made any such claim. The point is that the overall feel of the game, a POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD, is completely lost when the setting of the game is in a forest. You also seem to be completely misconstruing my posts, I'm not saying that the forest had no importance because of graphics, which is what I'm gathering from:

I could well imagine what a forest in SMT II would look like. I don't guess maybe the fact that maybe some of the graphics they wanted to make to show the illusion of life were maybe impossible now {edit: "then"}.

The point is that that is not the setting of the game. It is somewhere you go one time that may or may not be optional that doesn't really serve any purpose other than to establish Gimmel as a character.

So once again, to make sure we're all on the same page here:

Having a forest in the game is not what makes it detract from what Megami Tensei is. Having the game itself SET in a forest DOES detract from what Megami Tensei is: a post-apocalyptic setting.

No amount of background reading can teach you that. You can either take our word for it, or you can experience it yourself.

[raum215]

Seeing as you know none of us personally would you care to explain how you can make that guarantee?

I'd wager I have to just post it here, and it is "made". PM me for a full resume. 20 years worth, starting (practice) at the age of 13. I have gamed for as long as well. My first char in Wizardry VII was Aleph, and I named them all after letters of the Hebrew aleph-beth. I use to play while practicing rhythmic breathing... very good visualization tool early on.

I am not saying that this is THE way to enjoy these games, but that these games are a way to enjoy things that REALLY were imagined to be real at one time... and arguably have relevant worth in context that some people still employ. I love video games, and these games are FULL of things that I actually have other context for. It is not "menus" and monsters, this is to me part of a greater context for things that have ALWAYS had a place in this world... in the greatest tales of men. I think you will see story supports my approach. While people who are irreverant of the importance of that are cool with me, but often think their games are the unchangeable... and imagine that developers (sic publishers) can feed their families on discontent that they fester in at any sign of revising or expanding an idea. There is possibility of a bigger picture... and part of understanding that, regardless of your reason for liking the series, is flexibility. That is my premise, and so far I have tried to remain flexible.

So far, Crisis Core was the only difficulty.
but Persona 3 transition had some rough spots as well.

I would love to be able to play SMT and II on my DS.
Can someone make this so?

[Hitoshura]

^ Not on the DS, the SNES emu is pretty bad. Got a PSP?

[Voodoo]

I guaran-####ing-tee you I have read more books that inspired the SMT creators and are required reading than you have or could
Actually this is what my comment was refering to. You know none of us or our backgrounds so making such a guarentee is rather dumb and arrogent.

[Kakizaki]

I'd wager I have to just post it here, and it is "made". PM me for a full resume. 20 years worth, starting (practice) at the age of 13. I have gamed for as long as well. My first char in Wizardry VII was Aleph, and I named them all after letters of the Hebrew aleph-beth. I use to play while practicing rhythmic breathing... very good visualization tool early on.

Again that is all good and great, but that stuff isn't simply interchangeable in regards to discussing the settings and plot of the SMT titles.

[raum215]

Actually this is what my comment was refering to. You know none of us or our backgrounds so making such a guarentee is rather dumb and arrogent.

My statement was a biting response to one person, not a cry to the masses that I am jacking Dr. Strange's cloak and chain and training disciples. Hopefully, the only person I am making look dumb and arrogant is me. heh.

but that statement was not made lightly. it was mostly to simply establish how I relate to these games that I have not played, based on the ones I have and seeing the people in development teams are not unfamiliar with some of the books that most people do not know exist but are very prominent in SMT stuff I have seen, so some understanding of my points could be made.

Hitoshura

as for the games, I want to play them, and yes I do have a non home-brewed psp.

[Hitoshura]

Ah, damn. You'd need for it to be home-brew enabled. You can always play them on the PC emulator though.

[DamnedToBeFree]

And make sure you have a controller hooked up to your pc. Playing emulated games with a keyboard is LAME.

[raum215]

So hang on. Because you know the source material, you somehow know how the games feel without having actually played them? I believe you are still completely missing the point.

I am not saying anything about the feel. I am talking about how each of the games I played has shaken things up a little. I am not saying there always is was, wasn't forests or trees in SMT games. I am saying that it shouldn't be a deal breaker, and maybe it is worth a chance.

[/quote] You seem to be reiterating some imaginary point that someone made that there wasn't a single tree in the SMT games, when in fact nobody made any such claim. The point is that the overall feel of the game, a POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD, is completely lost when the setting of the game is in a forest.[/forest]

that was just me curious if there was reason or actual mention of no trees, no forests, no real heavy vegetation, and posting my brief results.

as for a Post-Ap world. got a few of those with some heavy overgrown areas that thrive. look at Macross. look at Xenogears. Look at at least one Phantasy Star iteration.

You also seem to be completely misconstruing my posts...

...The point is that that is not the setting of the game. It is somewhere you go one time that may or may not be optional that doesn't really serve any purpose other than to establish Gimmel as a character.

I took it this one is dropping you in the thick of a city overrun by demons... when you are from a refuge in the forests outside of the area of ground zero, and might even go back like some king of mission hub. Did it say it was based in the woods? I just thought it said people live and thrive in Jannah(s), which is a paradise. not a forest.... but likened to a garden. probably all fake heh/... a way of the demiurge to concentrate the fragmented psyche to achieve harmony, or at least silence.

So once again, to make sure we're all on the same page here:

Having a forest in the game is not what makes it detract from what Megami Tensei is. Having the game itself SET in a forest DOES detract from what Megami Tensei is: a post-apocalyptic setting.

No amount of background reading can teach you that. You can either take our word for it, or you can experience it yourself.

I didn't think the game was SET in a forest. I though it was a hub. that is a bit more odd. I don't even need the other games to tell me that. I say it is really a Genesis Pit and the game is Robotech: Cyclone Warriors! Now, that is post-apocalyptic vegetation!

[raum215]

Ah, damn. You'd need for it to be home-brew enabled. You can always play them on the PC emulator though.

Not really much emulation in my background. Are they in english? Are they available? Can the emulators run on microsoft windows mobile? Shin Megami Treo FTW?

as for the controller, WHY oh WHY can't I find a Nerf controller for my pc gaming? I love the one for my PS2. Prolly get a logitec if it can't go to treo.

[LadyRayna]

Also, notice the fifth kanji in the SMT IV image.

Any speculation on what that could mean?

Actually that kanji has always been there. If you omit it the title reads: Shin Megami Ten.

[Futomimi]

Something I just realized. For each of the first three SMT titles, the logos have been red. The one shown in the pic is green...

You're right.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[raum215]

But you never claimed not to either until well after some of your previous statements. While it may be unintentional, it is slightly misleading. When you make a claim and then post a source, people assume you are just doing so to verify your own experience.

Oh, I think they are usually more inclined to state their previous experience to verify it, usually something that can't just be scooped off of a wikipedia. I am pretty sure I have written elsewhere enough to state I did not play the SMT and SMT II games. no biggy, either way. I get it, " don't sound so definitive." As for the presence of said forested Jannah, I still see nothing that indicates this game will be like Demon wrangling in a world like Endor, which is pretty much the exaggerated response I am trying to combat.

WOW, someone had too much asshole in their coffee today.

I never said I played it, never said a GODDAMN thing,

Comments like these kind of make people think you are getting upset.[/quote]

Sorry, I had the first solid food I had since Friday, BAD stomach flu, and part of what I was writing was because I was not even really able to play a game, I was so sick yesterday. I hate when I have to take a day off, and don't even have the presence and human comfort to relax. But my mind is ALWAYS moving, and I am lying if i don't say I am looking forward to playing SMT and SMT 2 (and many other games like this.)

But, in my defense. I played Nocturne and Persona 2 before most people in the US. Let's put it this way, few people understood me when I quoted Persona 2 on 9/11/2001. I bought it when I bought it when I found Koudelka the first week it came out in the Sony Metreon while holiday shopping. I was (non-professionally) teaching advanced Tarot at the time to professional Tarot readers at the Psychic Eye in San Francisco, and was already using some analogies from Kartia, which I bought early on as well. I still like Kartia.

With over a decade passed since I got SMT Persona 2, I am far from a noob and I often am a bit more on the "in the know" side in US discussions about the works of ATLUS. I also have some limited and non-comprehensive exposure to some Japanese releases.

[DamageCity]

urge...


to kill....


rising....

[raum215]

urge...

to kill....

rising....

don't fight it. :P

Is that an urge to kill in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

ok, back to topic:

If a mmo that was part of the meta-series SMT, not particularly a specific continuance of any title veteran fans enjoy... and it was available on multiple consoles (say, PS3, 360, PC) including the 360, how much of the 360 live support should be handled by ATLUS USA, who would prolly have to put the infrastructure in place on this for PC and PS3 as well? I ask this because I see what I believe to be recruiting efforts to make this infrastructure happen.

(Good answers might be like, "well PSU on 360 is handled by XBL because Sega doesn't have the infrastructure in the US to handle an MMO." or "Final Fantasy XI would be better if Square handled it and they have the muscle to do so." etc...)

(Bad answers are like, "ZOMG!!! PSU sux!!! I wish it were in 64 bit graphics." or "SEga should just scrap PSU and make a good sonic. These atatements are not necessarily false, just irrelvant to my current question.)

[Raidou11]

If a mmo that was part of the meta-series SMT, not particularly a specific continuance of any title veteran fans enjoy... and it was available on multiple consoles (say, PS3, 360, PC) including the 360, how much of the 360 live support should be handled by ATLUS USA, who would prolly have to put the infrastructure in place on this for PC and PS3 as well? I ask this because I see what I believe to be recruiting efforts to make this infrastructure happen.

First of all, why would they make it multi-console? To begin with, its not like PS3, PC, and X360 users can connect to the same server for any same game, as long as the console isn't the same. Considering that most online gaming consist of subscription fees, I am sure it is a very bad idea to make multiple servers (quite costly) and to get the end result in which some servers are earning quite a lot of profit, while others earn little to nothing at all.

Aside from the facts, it is obvious that the megaten series are on the side of starting religious uproars to the traditional religious believers. And the fact that the X360 is a best-seller in North America, where the majority of the people are religious believers. How well do you think a megaten game in the 360 servers would sell?

Let me know if you want part of the lecture I gave on it, or the appended discourse. I am not joking.

So, you are a professor of philosophy. I don't think the series of Shin Megami Tensei is all that philosophical though. Its more... Considering that I haven't played all the games, I wouldn't be able to explain it clearly.

[PFV]

First of all, why would they make it multi-console? To begin with, its not like PS3, PC, and X360 users can connect to the same server for any same game, as long as the console isn't the same.
Yes they can. Look at Final Fantasy XI. It's an example of a cross-platform MMO (PS2/PC/360). Not only are those consoles not the same, but they span two generations.

[Marcos_sama]

Aside from the facts, it is obvious that the megaten series are on the side of starting religious uproars to the traditional religious believers. And the fact that the X360 is a best-seller in North America, where the majority of the people are religious believers. How well do you think a megaten game in the 360 servers would sell?


Wasn't one of the main reasons that Nocturne received a M rating here in the US because of the religious references in the game? If the religious conservatives were up in arms with Harry Potter, can you imagine what would happen if any of the SMT titles actually became mainstream?

[Sei]

^ Religious conservatives are losing power quickly, and aren't usually smart enough, or interested enough, to play obscure Anime RPGS. Persona and SMT went under the radar, I don't see why they'd make a fuss about anything.

[SlaughterX]

So yeah... a true Atlus game on the 360 sounds good to me.

[Marcos_sama]

I won't really mind if a SMT game comes out on the 360 but the probability of it actually happening is unlikely due to the fact, as was stated previously, Atlus is not really a huge company outside of Japan. Since the 360 isn't doing so well in Japan, it is only logical to assume that SMT would be released on a platform other than the 360.

[Sayckeone]

So yeah... a true Atlus game on the 360 sounds good to me.
Yeah, Atlus owes MS that.

[DamnedToBeFree]

:lol:

[Futomimi]

Aside from the facts, it is obvious that the megaten series are on the side of starting religious uproars to the traditional religious believers. And the fact that the X360 is a best-seller in North America, where the majority of the people are religious believers.

That doesn't mean that there is a majority, or even a significant portion, of 360 users that are traditionally religious.

Also, SMT does get pretty philosophical.... in the older games (pre-DDS) anyway.

[jj984jj]

I won't really mind if a SMT game comes out on the 360 but the probability of it actually happening is unlikely due to the fact, as was stated previously, Atlus is not really a huge company outside of Japan. Since the 360 isn't doing so well in Japan, it is only logical to assume that SMT would be released on a platform other than the 360.
I don't see why that makes it unlikely, Atlus Co. obviously takes Atlus USA and the NA market into consideration when they are planning future projects, all the Trauma Center sequels prove that. This topic is a complete mess because of the TC but I don't see why it'd be so hard to believe that, if Atlus Co. is making a next-gen RPG, it'd be a multi-platform game. The announcement would be a nice surprise, but nothing unlikely, unbelievable, or shocking, especially with the way this generation has gone so far.

[Flußkönig]

Wasn't one of the main reasons that Nocturne received a M rating here in the US because of the religious references in the game? If the religious conservatives were up in arms with Harry Potter, can you imagine what would happen if any of the SMT titles actually became mainstream?

I don't think so, in fact I doubt Christians or Muslims or whatever else even knows that the brand exists. I believe that Atlus USA was merely trying to perpetuate a certain image for the NA Shin Megami Tensei brand. If I am not mistaken all of the rebranded SMT (P3/DDS/DS) games have been rated M, even though they probably didn't need to be content wise. I have a hard time believing that all those games were rated M just for some fictitious religious conservative witch hunt.

[Inzaghi]

I believe that Atlus USA was merely trying to perpetuate a certain image for the NA Shin Megami Tensei brand. If I am not mistaken all of the rebranded SMT (P3/DDS/DS) games have been rated M, even though they probably didn't need to be content wise.

Well, it's not as though Atlus USA gets a say in the ratings. They come from the ESRB like every other game.

[Flußkönig]

I believe that Atlus USA was merely trying to perpetuate a certain image for the NA Shin Megami Tensei brand. If I am not mistaken all of the rebranded SMT (P3/DDS/DS) games have been rated M, even though they probably didn't need to be content wise.

Well, it's not as though Atlus USA gets a say in the ratings. They come from the ESRB like every other game.

It is my understanding that up to a few years ago (hot coffee scandel) the ESRB did not actually play through games (they still might not?). Instead, they relied on information that the publisher sent in determining the ratings. If that is the case it doesn't seem hard to artificially manipulate the rating, especially if you were going for a higher rating than the game really warranted.

If that isn't a correct understanding of how the ESRB operated/operates or not what Atlus did then I guess I must apologize.

[Onion of Mystery]

I believe that Atlus USA was merely trying to perpetuate a certain image for the NA Shin Megami Tensei brand. If I am not mistaken all of the rebranded SMT (P3/DDS/DS) games have been rated M, even though they probably didn't need to be content wise.

Well, it's not as though Atlus USA gets a say in the ratings. They come from the ESRB like every other game.

It is my understanding that up to a few years ago (hot coffee scandel) the ESRB did not actually play through games (they still might not?). Instead, they relied on information that the publisher sent in determining the ratings. If that is the case it doesn't seem hard to artificially manipulate the rating, especially if you were going for a higher rating than the game really warranted.

If that isn't a correct understanding of how the ESRB operated/operates or not what Atlus did then I guess I must apologize.

In a way, yes, that is what they did. However, if it comes to light that there is "objectionable material" that wasn't included in your report to the ESRB, they'll levy fines against you and/or revoke your rating privileges, which greatly affects your ability to put games on store shelves. Trying to sneak stuff under the ESRB's radar is a very risky and imo stupid thing to do.

[Olethros]

I don't think he meant "Trying to sneak stuff under the ESRB's radar " as much as "over emphasize objectionable material" to try to EARN a Mature rating.

[Flußkönig]

^ Yes, I have heard about that, but I meant more of trying to over emphasize certain aspects to the ESRB in order to get a higher rating. For example an M rating when the game could have gotten by with a T.

I am not bringing this up in a negative way though. It is just that an M rating seems to suit the demographic that SMT branded titles are aimed at more so than a T rating would.

Edit: lol yes Olethros... damn my slow typing.

[Onion of Mystery]

Other than shock value, I don't really see the purpose in what trying to get a harsher rating would be. In general, the lower the rating, the more people who are able to buy the game. That's not to say that companies should be removing stuff from games just for the sake of a rating, but you don't want to go up to the ESRB and say "No, you should have rated this M, because this is a lot more graphic than in the video we showed you."

Part of that's for the reason above, and another part is that if the ESRB does decide to re-label the game, they'll dock you again for filling out an erroneous report. They get you coming and going. :lol:

That said, there are games that I've scratched my head and wondered about why the ESRB gave as light a rating as it did. I mean, Contact? E10+? Really?

[Inzaghi]

That said, there are games that I've scratched my head and wondered about why the ESRB gave as light a rating as it did. I mean, Contact? E10+? Really?

Etrian Odyssey: T
Etrian Odyssey II: E10+

???

[raum215]

or Viva Pinata, which is basically a pimp/pusher simulator.

"don't make me shovel-kiss ya girl! give daddy the honey."

you bribe the po-po when they come stomping in the garden,
poison your enemies,
dress up your stable so they get more candy from the johns cause their pretty clothes.

Viva Pimp-yata, indeed! Build a house, to get a ho, wait for her john to come through, make them intimate and steal the kid to send in a crate to a party. yay! rated for everyone. you wanna talk dark? Gentrification, Select Breeding, Trafficking for the entertainment industry, Cannibalism, and Incest. That is what Rare's garden grows! (and I love it!!!)

I played it with my best Iceberg Slim attitude and and my pinstripe hat much to the amusement of my girlfriend. I wish my waterpot could have had a limp.

[Flußkönig]

Boo, looks like my conspiracy theory has fallen to pieces. I guess it isn't a total loss though since I got some interesting input in return.

[James Fiend]

I never understood how this Bandai game got a T rating.

http://weaponlord.crunchtimegames.com/videos/DzlB1D1.mpg

[Raidou11]

I believe that the SMT games including the Persona series should get a M rating rather than a T rating. Its not just the evokers...

[DamageCity]

I think Persona 4 will get a T rating.

[Chronis]

I never understood the Metal Gear Solid games getting rated M. Most of them don't deserve it. And I don't get pretty much anything rated E10.

[James Fiend]

I never understood the Metal Gear Solid games getting rated M. Most of them don't deserve it. And I don't get pretty much anything rated E10.I think shooting people in the head is usually an immediate M rating. The scene in Metal Gear Solid where Meryl gets shot a handful of times and Ocelot getting his arm cut off are just icing on the cake.

[cj iwakura]

I still don't know get why Devil Summoner 3 got rated M.

Rasputin's a pimp. Beyond that, what's there to find offensive, aside from Raidou spilling some blood?

[Raidou11]

I think Persona 4 will get a T rating.

Persona 4 should get a Cero B which is 12 and under. Speaking of which, its rather odd that "Kodo Giasu: Lost Colors" actually had a Cero B.

Edited: Persona 4 is actually rated Cero B, I just realized that. In this case, it really should get a "T" rating!

[cj iwakura]

Also, you all can apparently stop panicking over nothing.

Seems like 'SMT IV' is nowhere to be found in the latest Famitsu.

Signs point to this being a doctored image, regrettably.
(Love the proposed concept or hate it, the core series coming back can only be a good thing.)

[Futomimi]

Obviously, he means in the US... since the Japanese version is out, it's already been rated.
And, either way, the Japanese rating means jack squat to the ESRB.

[Sayckeone]

Also, you all can apparently stop panicking over nothing.

Seems like 'SMT IV' is nowhere to be found in the latest Famitsu.

Signs point to this being a doctored image, regrettably.
(Love the proposed concept or hate it, the core series coming back can only be a good thing.)
I'm both :) and :(.

[Futomimi]

And yeah, besides that, the guy's friend admitted that it was a hoax.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=945498&topic=44264785&page=7

[raum215]

And yeah, besides that, the guy's friend admitted that it was a hoax.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=945498&topic=44264785&page=7

...which is why I did not include that in my evidence, and only considered it in an ancillary capacity, and still questioned its veracity after someone else posted it here.

[SlaughterX]

That pic looked like a ####ty photoshop anyway, but what has me wondering is the job posting...

[Avarice]

pimping SMT in the ad. The recruiting ad only has pics of SMT and Persona on it, and the whole trophy case of SMT stuff.

All companies promote their flagship series in bio type stuff.


Why would Atlus put their primary franchise, and a franchise where the vast majority of their customer support base is Japanese, on a console that is selling the worst out of the current gen in Japan?

+1;)

[slayn]

Thread necromancy makes me randy.

[Avarice]

Thread necromancy makes me randy.

:seesaw: huh?

[slayn]

Post count ++

[DamnedToBeFree]

Post count +++

[ceifadorx]

Thread necromancy makes me randy.

:seesaw: huh?

he mean that before you post look at the day of the last posted.
this topic for example was already died almost 5 months.

[VamP]

I wouldn't care if it goes to the 360 as long as it's not exclusive. I don't really wanna have to buy an Xbox.

EDIT: My bad. Didn't mean to contribute to an ancient thread...

[raum215]

mah thread ain't dead? wowzers...

[Heretic]

i'd love for Atlus to make more 360 games. i only have Spectral Force 3 and i really like it. didn't bother getting Zoids or Operation Darkness...

[Oksweet]

It's bad enough they got Devil may cry 4, maybe RE5 too. But in reguards to FFXIII theres two versions coming out right? FFXIII and FFXII Versus. I believe 306 is only getting FFXIII. But yea....NOT SMT NOOOOO!

[Kakizaki]

Bleh, this thread was resuscitated for no real reason a little while back. The conversation went and circles and had been dead for quite while. Locked.